Stereotypical un-neutered male behaviors

[benelli]

After doing research my husband and I have decided to at least postpone neutering our GSP, if not avoid it altogether (we'll see how things are going - we don't intend on breeding him, but we would like to avoid the potential health issues, and at least with our current lifestyle I don't think it should be a problem to keep him away from females).

So far, Scout (6 months) hasn't started doing any of the behaviors that give un-neutered males a bad reputation. From this forum and other sites, I've come across many people saying the real difference is the training, and not the presence/absence of man parts, which makes sense.

But what I'm wondering is, is there anything in particular I should look out for/do specifically to avoid things like humping, or just punish it when it happens? Is there any way to discourage marking? (Our last dog was neutered when we got him, and he would mark EVERYTHING we passed on a walk, to the point where it was obnoxious, but I never really thought to try to stop him from doing it.)

And as far as "roaming" goes, I guess I'm not even entirely clear on what that's supposed to entail - will the dog supposedly just become a Houdini and escape on every occasion? (Right now if we head out into the front yard, he might wander to the neighbor's yard to sniff, but he doesn't take off.)

I'm not wanting to start a debate on neutering vs. not, I'm just curious about whether I should expect anything significantly different from an intact dog, since all the (pet) dogs I had growing up were neutered, and with all the hype associated with intact dogs, I figure there must be some extra bit of excitement involved ... just wanting to be ready so we can try to avoid issues rather than fix problems later on.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

I don't know where people get the idea that neutering will stop any of the habits you have brought up & there is no evidence that neutering stops any health issues,other the Testicle cancer which is
not very common anyways.There is more eveidence of it causing health issues but before you make any decisions you can find alot of info on the web read it,sort through it,& make your own decision.

[benelli]

Right, sorry I was unclear, I meant we'd like to avoid the potential health issues that could occur because of neutering. My mistake on the badly-worded sentence.

I realize that the problematic behaviors aren't necessarily stopped because of neutering ... so my question is really about those behaviors in general, which I guess are more accurately "male dog" behaviors rather than "intact male dog" behaviors.

So for example, when two dogs are interacting and one starts humping the other (more as a dominance thing than a sexual thing, it seems to me at least), is there anything you do to stop/discourage that, or is that just "dogs being dogs"?

Or like my previous example of the dog we used to have, who would mark things every ten feet on a walk - is that just something some dogs do and some dogs don't, or do you actively deter your dog from doing that? Do dogs that like to mark things end up marking bushes everywhere out hunting? I would imagine they'd be more interested in birds, right?

Sorry for the kind of stupid questions - but I'd like to make sure Scout stays well-behaved and not have people be able to blame certain behaviors on the fact that we decided to delay/forgo neutering. But my main exposure to intact male dogs has been more along the lines of aggressive Pit Bulls, so I'm trying to get a feel for what to expect in reality.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

Don't allow any behaviors or habits you don't like & start now don't allow it while he's a puppy then punish or reprimand him when he's grown.If you have him on a leash if he starts to mark or hump give a firm jerk with a strong verbal no.Teach him no & he will get the idea when he hears it.

[Cajun Casey]

Teach LEAVE IT and reinforce it with high value treats as much as possible and quick correction if necessary.

[shags]

We have three intact adult male dogs in the house and I don't don't see any reason to neuter any of them. Training takes care of any obnoxious male behavior.

Roaming - the dogs have a fenced yard for going out during the day. There is no reason to turn them out unsupervised. They are free run or roaded several times a week, and we let them run around loose in the yard or pasture almost every day but we are always with them then. The dogs don't run off because they obey recall commands.

Neighbors' bitches in season - i can tell when a neighbor's dog is in season, because when the wind is right my boys might chatter or mark outdoors more than usual. They don't roam to mate...because they aren't allowed to roam.

Marking - when they're housebroken, they don't pee in the house. We have a major discussion about it if one of them forgets the rules, and that fixes it for a long, long time. On walks on lead, they get a chance to relieve themselves, then no more peeing is allowed until the end of the walk ( or at any other point we say it's OK). This kind of discipline helps a ton when we take the dogs anywhere that civilized behavior is expected...no peeing in other peoples' yards, no peeing in parking lots, campgrounds, or other inappropriate places.

Mounting - IME it's a puppy/adolescent behavior that a quick smack-down will eliminate. It's just rude. I'd caution you to be careful here though - if you come down too hard on a guy, he might become reluctant to mount if you want to breed him later.

Fighting - we don't have problems with this in our pack, but have in the past with other dogs. No amount of punishment would stop them, and neutering did not help. I've since concluded that it's necessary to consider dogs' personalities when bringing a new dog into the house; our oldest dog is more dominant, so we picked subsequent dogs that were more submissive. It's worked out very well with no jockeying for top dog status.

I think that once in a while a dog may have behavioral problems that are related to hormones, but by and large training is what makes the difference between a well behaved dog and an out-of-control beast. As a vet tech, I've seen many many young dogs with all sorts of behavior issues. Owners are pulled into the office by slobbering clambering beasts with no effort at gaining control. They allow the dogs to pee on the waiting room furniture, and never blink an eye. The dog won't submit to sitting still for an exam, and might even require a muzzle. The owners have the dogs neutered to cure these problems, and a year later the dogs are still doing the same thing.

[benelli]

Thanks, shags, that was very helpful.

[DogNewbie]

I'm fine with marking on his own time, I have a problem with him peeing on things. On leash he isn't allowed to mark. I gave him one pee stop, and if he tried to go again on the walk he got dragged along. Off leash, he can sniff and round and pee all he wants, he's just not allowed to lift his leg and pee on objects. I achieved that with an ecollar. Every time he lifted a leg he got shocked (I didn't acknowledged his reaction so he didn't associate the shock being from my actions but rather his own.) He figured that out pretty quite. Humping, I just ripped him off the other dog and dominated him and said no. Lots of repetition.

[AzDoggin]

That was a great post by shags.

I don't know why vets push neutering so much (other than, I suppose, the overpopulation of dogs at the dog pound) but they do.

I've read that 14 months is the absolute youngest age a dog should be neutered without creating lifelong consequences.

[Fester]

I don't want my boys removed and neither does my dog, if a dog has characteristics that shouldn't be past along don't breed him unless you let him roam like a sooner it shouldn't be a problem he will mark and if a female pee's he will cover it so what
Fester

[birddogger]

All good posts and right on the mark [no pun intended].

Charlie

[jimbo&rooster]

Ive got 3 unaltered bird dogs, and 2 unaltered livestock dogs all males, and have had 0 trouble with any of them being inclined to roam. Even when the bird dogs get out, or the other two come off pasture they stay put. Now my wife has a Lab that I think would try to breed one of our sheep if he could get in without the LGDs eating him.

Most of the time when you see with people having issues with intact dogs it is an issue with the training, not the dog.

One of my GSP males lives in the house, along with my wifes intact dachshound female, and while he drives me nuts for a couple weeks when she comes into heat, and i joke about the german shortleg pointers we may wind up with, it has never been an issue. As long as you maintain control of your dog an have done the proper OB work then it isn't an issue.

One thing I used to hear alot from folks was that intact dogs were more prone to fight, but I have found that more often than not that was an issue of pecking order, and was more often an issue of folks not letting things get worked out amongst the dogs.

As far as marking goes, I have seen intact, as well as altered males that would mark anything and everything, again this comes down to what you allow to happen. same thing with humping

Jim

[AzDoggin]

i joke about the german shortleg pointers we may wind up with

Jim

Here ya go:

[A/C Guy]

So for example, when two dogs are interacting and one starts humping the other (more as a dominance thing than a sexual thing, it seems to me at least), is there anything you do to stop/discourage that, or is that just "dogs being dogs"?

My female humps other dogs, so it is definitely not a sexual thing. It is merely a dominance exhibition. We tell her to stop as soon as it starts and she does. Our male also would stop when commanded to do so.

Or like my previous example of the dog we used to have, who would mark things every ten feet on a walk - is that just something some dogs do and some dogs don't, or do you actively deter your dog from doing that?

Again, it is training. Our male would stop peeing on command. He would start to pee on my truck tire and I would say "Go pee on a tree." and he would do as commanded. That amazed a lot of other people the first time they would see it. They always would say "I never knew that you could teach a dog that!"

Do dogs that like to mark things end up marking bushes everywhere out hunting? I would imagine they'd be more interested in birds, right?

Yes. The scent of birds makes them forget everything else.

Sorry for the kind of stupid questions..

No such thing as a stupid question. Although, sometimes on the internet, people try to make you feel that way.