national champion

larue · Post by **larue** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:21 pm

I am just wondering how you guys look at a national champion,if you were judging.Would it be a nice short gundog who went around always in sight,great style, or would you use a big running shooting dog,who was out of sight alot.
With bird work being equal.

TChism · Post by **TChism** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:23 pm

Which NC stake would you be talking about?

larue · Post by **larue** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:30 pm

I guess I am talking gundog,,not all age

Willie Hunter · Post by **Willie Hunter** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:07 pm

I like big running AA dogs. I guess that is why I need an Astro on these setters.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:21 pm

I would think it depends on the grounds and conditions. As long as they aren't gone for too long its all good. All Age you don't want to see them unless they are standing or you call them back.

Post by **slistoe** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:42 pm

The dog that uses up the most of the country and gets the job done.

TChism · Post by **TChism** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:06 pm

ultracarry wrote:I would think it depends on the grounds and conditions. As long as they aren't gone for too long its all good. All Age you don't want to see them unless they are standing or you call them back.

I disagree, you want to see the all age dogs go in that country. You don't just want to find them on point, without seeing them hunt. You want to see them making the right moves as much as you want to see their bird work.

I have been fortunate enough to see quite a few of the dogs that have run in the National Championship, at other championships (qualifying stakes) and they weren't just found on point. We got to see them hunt the country.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:00 pm

Tchisolm, are you talking about trials in the Midwest? Ultracarry has only handled in the High Deserts out west. The hardest job and most critical is your scout out here. Heck, I've had to try to get a Gundog back on course that was 2 miles from the handler. The last thing you see on a good AA dog out here is him crossing the first ridge a 1/2 mile out.

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:42 am

I am not a fan of what is considered an AA dog. Somewhere along the way, trialing got away from bird dogs and the stake originally open to all dogs of any age and all handlers was turned into a stake with a type of dog with excess independence. I am a huge fan of the Amesian Standard. There a bird dog is defined better than any other definition I have read or heard. With that in mind, what would appeal to me is a good running shooting dog. I do not want the dog gone from view most the time to be found standing on a bird, what do you judge then other than all you saw was a piece of bird dog. I was to see the dog going to objectives and/or hunting the cover there. It must be fast and must maintain the pace it set's starting the brace. A dog that blows away from the line and burns itself out half way thru is not a dog that adjust's it's pace. The dog must handle well and must hunt to the handler. Reaching cover, it should slow down some and hunt that cover quickly before going on. Not hit it and blast thru and out the other side. and a real liability would be the dog that hunts coverless fields. I like to see a dog come out of cover to a field like that, take a look and leave it in favor of cover. A Nat Ch in my view should be all the things a good bird dog is but step it up several notches.

To glorify a huge running dog that serves no useful purpose other than it runs off is not good in my view. To glorify a had that barely handles, that hunts obviously unproductive cover, that does not keep track of it's handler or does not handle well it to move backwards in the making of good bird dogs.

If I had my way, tracking devices would not be allowed. I think that most people would be willing to risk losing a dog for the sake of a big win. Without those devices out there, the handlers would have to show better handling dogs to win or place. My understanding of them is so that handlers won't risk losing a valuable great dog. valuable great dogs do not lose their handler's regardless of the range they run. A Nat Ch should have a way of going that makes you watch it, not look for it.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:44 am

The description by tchisolm is much more accurate of the way it is than what a couple other fellars are portraying. You definitely dont win if the last thing you see of your dog is it going over the ridge 1/2 mile off the breakaway, you typically dont win herding a dog around two miles off course nor do you typically win only seeing the dog on point or calling it in. you might bluff some judges into using that kind of stuff but not experienced ones at big events. The majority of the time your dog has to consistently show no matter the stake...there are certainly times wayward hounds get used whether it be inexperienced judges or just the way the stake shakes out but IME thats the minority.

with regards to Dennis question thats a definite "it depends"!

Typing this waiting to launch my hounds in the Reg 10 AAA Ch today...guess we'll see if I'm full of chit!!

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:06 am

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:Tchisolm, are you talking about trials in the Midwest? Ultracarry has only handled in the High Deserts out west. The hardest job and most critical is your scout out here. Heck, I've had to try to get a Gundog back on course that was 2 miles from the handler. The last thing you see on a good AA dog out here is him crossing the first ridge a 1/2 mile out.

This is exactly what makes people who don't trial wonder why they would want a trial dog. Cj

Ruffshooter · Post by **Ruffshooter** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:07 am

DG:
Good luck: Get pics if you can.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:17 am

Ruffshooter wrote:DG:
Good luck: Get pics if you can.

oh i got pics. might even have a winners circle pic from the Reg 10 ASD Ch yesterday that i really like!!

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:46 pm

I agree with you guys but the terrain out here is so open that a good dog opens up because it can see or hear you from a much greater distance. Even the Gundogs run bigger out here but when the cover gets thicker theywill shrink up. The ones who win don't stay out of sight for very long but it is impressive watching a dog run a ridge top 1/2 mile away and lock up on top. It all depends on terrain because the tops of those ridges is our objectives as there are no treelines, fences or hedge rows.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:55 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:Tchisolm, are you talking about trials in the Midwest? Ultracarry has only handled in the High Deserts out west. The hardest job and most critical is your scout out here. Heck, I've had to try to get a Gundog back on course that was 2 miles from the handler. The last thing you see on a good AA dog out here is him crossing the first ridge a 1/2 mile out.

If this is true, then there should be no question as to why so many people have no use for a trial bred dog. Talk about splitting a breed, I still think our dogs are mostly hunting dogs and that means the dog hunts birds and it doesn't mean we hunt the dog. Trials are fun and have a purpose if we just keep what a dogs real purpose is and nit try to have a dog that runs further and faster than the rest but rather the dog that hunts for the handler and covers all of the spots that we can see that look like places we might find the birds. And the winner is the dog that does the best job covering those areas and actually finds the birds.

Ezzy

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:29 pm

How can you guys judge something in which you have no experience? Terrain, use of objectives, bird work and independence. Come run out here and see how your dog opens up because it can stay in touch.

When we go east, ours will shorten up and use the terrain just like yours. We are talking about mounted national level dogs not boot lickers.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:42 pm

I guess our courses might be different in the layout but in all age, most of the time the dogs are running ridges, hunting draws, then you have small shrub (1-2 foot high) covered hills. If your dog doesn't push over the ridges to hunt it would be very short running. Guess you would have to see it. If I had a dog that would hint unproductive cover just to stay within range you would see it in the for sale section because I want it to find birds.

If a dog tires in a 30 min stake with reasonable weather you have bigger problems.

cjuve · Post by **cjuve** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:12 pm

You can't win with a lost dog and thats fact, for me to sit up and take notice they have to be on the edge, I do not like seeing a dog the whole brace.

TChism · Post by **TChism** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:32 pm

I never said they don't go out of sight. They certainly do, but they don't just run off with you end up finding them on point. They dip in and out of site even though they may be 3/4 of a mile out there.they handle, they run, they find birds, and they have the ability to be heeled through tight spots, and then sent on. There is a lot more to all age dogs than just running big. One of the trials I watched a was in Arkansas on rather tight courses, another was in South Dakota on the prairie. In both trials mentioned, the dogs that won had to run, handle, show, and have birds. Everyone likes to see dogs on point, but what really gets me going is watching a dog make a "big all age move" and then seeing him standing a covey. (It's not likely to see the dog the whole time, but enough to connect the dots and watch his gate and pattern)

I always held the misconception that all age dogs or even field trial dogs were just run offs, that is until I started going to all age trials. When you watch one lay deep in that country and still handle, hunting the whole way, it is something that sticks in your mind!

tn red · Post by **tn red** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:34 pm

DGFavor wrote:
Ruffshooter wrote:DG:
Good luck: Get pics if you can.
oh i got pics. might even have a winners circle pic from the Reg 10 ASD Ch yesterday that i really like!!

Any pics from the Idaho Ch ? Thought i saw a HBV dog getting it done there .

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:59 am

TChism, that is a good description of what this thread was supposed to be about or atleast what it turned into. Terrain and objectives is the key. The breeds aren't being "split" they are just raised and trained in an environment that dictates how they range and hunt.

As for the people who say "this is why people don't want to trial"? well, I'll tell you the main obstacle in trialing- horses. I'm at the point that I'm starting to believe that all trials should be walking trials and only judges should be mounted. There is a large portion of sporting breeds who live in urban areas who can't have horses and in this economy the owners can't afford to send their dog off to a pro.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:34 am

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:TChism, that is a good description of what this thread was supposed to be about or atleast what it turned into. Terrain and objectives is the key. The breeds aren't being "split" they are just raised and trained in an environment that dictates how they range and hunt.

As for the people who say "this is why people don't want to trial"? well, I'll tell you the main obstacle in trialing- horses. I'm at the point that I'm starting to believe that all trials should be walking trials and only judges should be mounted. There is a large portion of sporting breeds who live in urban areas who can't have horses and in this economy the owners can't afford to send their dog off to a pro.

There are lots of venues for walking trials. Though I agree horses are a big limiter for some, there are other reasons like the ability/time/cash/motivation to get and keep a dog broke.

cjuve · Post by **cjuve** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:52 am

ACooper wrote:
Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:TChism, that is a good description of what this thread was supposed to be about or atleast what it turned into. Terrain and objectives is the key. The breeds aren't being "split" they are just raised and trained in an environment that dictates how they range and hunt.

As for the people who say "this is why people don't want to trial"? well, I'll tell you the main obstacle in trialing- horses. I'm at the point that I'm starting to believe that all trials should be walking trials and only judges should be mounted. There is a large portion of sporting breeds who live in urban areas who can't have horses and in this economy the owners can't afford to send their dog off to a pro.
There are lots of venues for walking trials. Though I agree horses are a big limiter for some, there are other reasons like the ability/time/cash/motivation to get and keep a dog broke.

Keeping the dog broke is the easy part!

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:58 am

tn red wrote:
DGFavor wrote:
Ruffshooter wrote:DG:
Good luck: Get pics if you can.
oh i got pics. might even have a winners circle pic from the Reg 10 ASD Ch yesterday that i really like!!
Any pics from the Idaho Ch ? Thought i saw a HBV dog getting it done there .

I posted some pics from the win there in another thread. When I get home from these trials tomorrow might be good odds of posting a pic of an HBV dog, or two, in the Ch winners pics as well as some pics of some for real bird country to test bird dogs...might even impress Brazos and UC!!

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:39 pm

DG, I think you've missed my point. I don't have a big running dog. Atleast, not by AA or even Gun Dog standards out here. My post weren't meant to try to impress anyone or knock other dogs. I was merely saying what it takes to win in the terrain that UC has experience in. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less. In my attempt to clarify what UC stated, I've obviously muddied the water.

I will try to get a picture of the grounds and then maybe people can relate to how a judge can pick a winner.

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:01 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:TChism,
As for the people who say "this is why people don't want to trial"? well, I'll tell you the main obstacle in trialing- horses. I'm at the point that I'm starting to believe that all trials should be walking trials and only judges should be mounted. There is a large portion of sporting breeds who live in urban areas who can't have horses and in this economy the owners can't afford to send their dog off to a pro.

It is hard to grow the sport when horses are necessary. I agree with how you feel but Pros need horses to run and the trials need pros to break even. What about making amatuer walking only.

dan v · Post by **dan v** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:20 pm

AZ Brittany Guy wrote: It is hard to grow the sport when horses are necessary. I agree with how you feel but Pros need horses to run and the trials need pros to break even. What about making amatuer walking only.

What about I feed these three nags all year long, be d*mned if I'm walking.

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:15 pm

Wyndancer wrote:
AZ Brittany Guy wrote: It is hard to grow the sport when horses are necessary. I agree with how you feel but Pros need horses to run and the trials need pros to break even. What about making amatuer walking only.
What about I feed these three nags all year long, be d*mned if I'm walking.

Sounds like a personal problem to me.

Take up calf roping, or polo. Or ride your horse in open stakes. This is a dog sport.

shags · Post by **shags** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:46 am

In akc trials you can ALWAYS walk if you choose to. If you don't like Akc, then there are plenty of walking venues to choose from.

Having done it both ways, I find it's much cheaper to send the dog to a pro than it is to run it myself. Might be different if I lived across the road from grounds where I could run every weekend

rkappes · Post by **rkappes** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:33 am

shags wrote: I find it's much cheaper to send the dog to a pro than it is to run it myself.

What's the average cost per month, year, etc...for a pro? I'm sure their are variables involved, just curious what the average cost is.

dan v · Post by **dan v** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:51 am

rkappes wrote:
shags wrote: I find it's much cheaper to send the dog to a pro than it is to run it myself.
What's the average cost per month, year, etc...for a pro? I'm sure their are variables involved, just curious what the average cost is.

I suppose for an AKC pro...$450-600/month. Some will charge for birds, some will charge a handling fee, others will charge a travel expense (shared with other owners) and of course entries.

With $4.30 diesel, the fuel cost alone is .50/mile, so that's where the savings are found. I rode with a couple of friends to Tri-Valley this spring...it's 1000 miles one way...so if I were to try that alone, the fuel would have been $1000....for one weekend. It's a 300 hit for me to Pine Island in Wisconsin....$300 bones...fuel, one weekend.

dan v · Post by **dan v** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:54 am

AZ Brittany Guy wrote:
Sounds like a personal problem to me. Take up calf roping, or polo. Or ride your horse in open stakes. This is a dog sport.

Hey, don't get me wrong, have all the walking trials you want. It seems that the solo walking AGD doesn't draw as well as it does in a all walking FT. You also attract a different group of people to the all walking FT. That's not bad, it just is.

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:21 am

Wyndancer wrote:
AZ Brittany Guy wrote:
Sounds like a personal problem to me. Take up calf roping, or polo. Or ride your horse in open stakes. This is a dog sport.
Hey, don't get me wrong, have all the walking trials you want. It seems that the solo walking AGD doesn't draw as well as it does in a all walking FT. You also attract a different group of people to the all walking FT. That's not bad, it just is.

No problemo.

I know were your comming from. Some of my berst friends are FT horse people. Where I come from walking trials are few and far between. All Im sayen is if we want to grow the sport, walking trials are the gateway to get there. Now ..... back to National Champions.

dan v · Post by **dan v** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:55 am

I think part of the decision process about selecting a breed NFC should be on whether or not the breed is large enough to have both a GD NFC and a AA NFC. If not, then I believe the choice becomes much harder.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:47 pm

It's generally close to $1K to campaign a dog with a pro. Walking trials would grow the sport unfortunately, instead of doing that, we will bs driving AYV' and if that happens they will lose entries and I will switch to another venue.

Post by **slistoe** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:25 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:It's generally close to $1K to campaign a dog with a pro. Walking trials would grow the sport unfortunately, instead of doing that, we will bs driving AYV' and if that happens they will lose entries and I will switch to another venue.

There are walking trials in many areas around the country. There are trial associations that are walking only. I have not heard that they are overflowing with entries and turning the hordes away. Generally it is the opposite - walking trial entries are barely making a go of it in most areas I am familiar with/have heard about. I don't understand how that is going to grow the sport.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:28 pm

The Ohio GSP club started holding walking trials a few yrs back,the first yr they had a nice turn out because one of the pros supported them that yr.This was the only walking trial he went to that I'm
aware of.Since that yr entries have declined to the point it's not proftable for the club,this yr they never held one & my gusee that's the reason but can't say for sure.
If you want walking trials then they need entries,I think HB trials that also have walking stakes might be a better idea.

rkappes · Post by **rkappes** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:31 pm

Wyndancer wrote:
rkappes wrote:
shags wrote: I find it's much cheaper to send the dog to a pro than it is to run it myself.
What's the average cost per month, year, etc...for a pro? I'm sure their are variables involved, just curious what the average cost is.
I suppose for an AKC pro...$450-600/month. Some will charge for birds, some will charge a handling fee, others will charge a travel expense (shared with other owners) and of course entries.

With $4.30 diesel, the fuel cost alone is .50/mile, so that's where the savings are found. I rode with a couple of friends to Tri-Valley this spring...it's 1000 miles one way...so if I were to try that alone, the fuel would have been $1000....for one weekend. It's a 300 hit for me to Pine Island in Wisconsin....$300 bones...fuel, one weekend.

Thanks for the info, appreciate it!

Another question. Do pros’ only take on specific pointing breeds? Ex: pointers only, setters only, britts only, etc……or will they have different breeds on their string?

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:35 pm

Von- that might be a better idea they would need to hold more tha 1 stake. It's just not worth driving sever hours to run one stake.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:37 pm

Some pros only take certain breeds,some will take any that can be competitive.

Brazos I understand that as well but walking trials only in this area anyway just don't pay for themselves.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:49 pm

The walking trials in ca do a little better with 4 stakes and over 60 dogs.

I go to them all as long as they have enough openings to make it worth entering a dog in. I don't want to put mine in a small stake.....

Mr DF I would love to make it out there so you can show me. But we would need a dog box on the back of the horse to have my dog keep up.

shags · Post by **shags** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:28 pm

rkappes wrote:Another question. Do pros’ only take on specific pointing breeds? Ex: pointers only, setters only, britts only, etc……or will they have different breeds on their string?

Some do, some don't. Some have mixed strings. If you think you might be interested in looking for a pro, it might be in your best interests to find one with predominantly the breed you have...or at least the type of dog, like versatiles. That way your dog will be going to the type of trials it needs ( like brits need wins from brit trials, the versatile breeds need retrieve stake wins, etc.)

My pro charges a flat fee per month that includes all training, food, birds, shells, whatever he uses to get the job done. Trial expenses other than entry fees are split between the owners, and include fuel and lodging (if he stays in town rather than his trailer). Owners pay for their dogs' entry fees. One of the fall trials, it cost us $30 plus entries, and there is no way we could have done it that cheap ourselves, with probably $150 in fuel and another hundred for lodging.

rkappes · Post by **rkappes** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:39 pm

shags wrote:
rkappes wrote:Another question. Do pros’ only take on specific pointing breeds? Ex: pointers only, setters only, britts only, etc……or will they have different breeds on their string?
Some do, some don't. Some have mixed strings. If you think you might be interested in looking for a pro, it might be in your best interests to find one with predominantly the breed you have...or at least the type of dog, like versatiles. That way your dog will be going to the type of trials it needs ( like brits need wins from brit trials, the versatile breeds need retrieve stake wins, etc.)

My pro charges a flat fee per month that includes all training, food, birds, shells, whatever he uses to get the job done. Trial expenses other than entry fees are split between the owners, and include fuel and lodging (if he stays in town rather than his trailer). Owners pay for their dogs' entry fees. One of the fall trials, it cost us $30 plus entries, and there is no way we could have done it that cheap ourselves, with probably $150 in fuel and another hundred for lodging.

Great, thanks for the info!

How does a person go about finding a pro?

shags · Post by **shags** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:48 pm

Word of mouth works pretty well. I watched my guy around trials...how he kept his dogs, how he treated them around camp, how he handled them and how the dogs responded to him. I wanted someone who enjoys reasonable success, obviously, but it's important to take his overall record into account and not just how he does at one or two trials. Good pros have poor streaks now and again, and poor pros get lucky once in a while

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:49 pm

If I put my dog with a pro who is on the road most of the time who trains the dog? Getting off the thread a bit. Maybe should put this in a new one. Cj

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:26 pm

slistoe wrote:
Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:It's generally close to $1K to campaign a dog with a pro. Walking trials would grow the sport unfortunately, instead of doing that, we will bs driving AYV' and if that happens they will lose entries and I will switch to another venue.
There are walking trials in many areas around the country. There are trial associations that are walking only. I have not heard that they are overflowing with entries and turning the hordes away. Generally it is the opposite - walking trial entries are barely making a go of it in most areas I am familiar with/have heard about. I don't understand how that is going to grow the sport.

Anytime you don't need to invest in a 1 - 3/4 ton pick up with a camper insert and a horse trailer it seems the cost of admission is lower. You will not get a lot of young families who need to put kids through school to make a $40 to $70 K investment to compete their dogs. It seems that the age group for field trialers is in general 50 to 70 years old and falls of after 70. It would be interesting to see some numbers on how much money the average field trialer spends each year on horses, truck repair and fuel pursuing this pastime.

It kinda reminds me for moving to Florida years ago. Once you move there you want to shut the door so no one else can come down.

jetjockey · Post by **jetjockey** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:46 pm

My pro charges a monthly fee plus handling fees. Everything is included in the monthly fee. Typically most of the training is done outside the trial season. We picked our Pro by word of mouth, but fell into trialing by accident. Originally I just sent my dog off to be trained at his camp in SD and get lots of wild bird experience. Now she spends 6-7 months with the trainer and 5-6 months at home hunting and sleeping on the couch. We couldn't run her on our own, so our only choice is to use a Pro. Our Pro is great and takes plenty of horses so we can ride along at trials and so I can run her in amateur trials. I can honestly say that without him, my dog wouldn't be running AKC/AF trials. He makes it all possible for my wife and I, and we are typically the youngest people at trials (early to mid 30's).

Post by **slistoe** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:35 pm

AZ Brittany Guy wrote:
slistoe wrote:
Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:It's generally close to $1K to campaign a dog with a pro. Walking trials would grow the sport unfortunately, instead of doing that, we will bs driving AYV' and if that happens they will lose entries and I will switch to another venue.
There are walking trials in many areas around the country. There are trial associations that are walking only. I have not heard that they are overflowing with entries and turning the hordes away. Generally it is the opposite - walking trial entries are barely making a go of it in most areas I am familiar with/have heard about. I don't understand how that is going to grow the sport.
Anytime you don't need to invest in a 1 - 3/4 ton pick up with a camper insert and a horse trailer it seems the cost of admission is lower. You will not get a lot of young families who need to put kids through school to make a $40 to $70 K investment to compete their dogs. It seems that the age group for field trialers is in general 50 to 70 years old and falls of after 70. It would be interesting to see some numbers on how much money the average field trialer spends each year on horses, truck repair and fuel pursuing this pastime.

It kinda reminds me for moving to Florida years ago. Once you move there you want to shut the door so no one else can come down.

Hey, the fellow says walking trials will grow the sport - IT ISN"T HAPPENING. There are walking trials all over the place, and there are many more walking stakes held at regular trials - they aren't turning entries away from these events. So, tell me again how it is that an event that very little to no one enters is going to "grow the sport".

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:41 pm

There aren't that many AKC walking trials and my original point was, to do away with HB trials. Pro's wood be forced to enter them and it would make it more accessible to the average person but hey, you know best and it was just an idea up for discussion so get off of your high horse and chill.

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:38 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:There aren't that many AKC walking trials and my original point was, to do away with HB trials. Pro's wood be forced to enter them and it would make it more accessible to the average person but hey, you know best and it was just an idea up for discussion so get off of your high horse and chill.

Siltoe appears to be just an anonymous sniper who takes his shots and you never know who he /she is. I wonder how he / she would grow the sport and draw more people. Well I guess it is easier to take shot rather than making a positive contribution.