Worst Hunt Test Ever

[campgsp]

This past weekend we ran our pup for his akc SH. The whole testing in every level was very messed up. This was a back field course with bird field. but it didnt end that way. so to begin

Saturday the judges for MH and SH kept sticking togeather the whole time. Handlers were separating and both judges stayed with only one of the handlers. a few of us watched as a MH dog went on point. No judges around to buisy watching the other dog or talking. So this guys dog scouped the bird. He leashed his dog and walked all the way across the field to the judges knowing his dog messed up. honest guy you know. but the judges didnt see what happend oveiousely he didnt tell them, I mean would you. so they let the dog continue. more power to that handler imo. The judges were more interested in there life bs then judging our dogs correctly. now I go in the field my brace mate gets a little ahead of me and here the judges are still togeather instead of one going up to the other dog. I was like unbelievable. so on we went. i passed my bracemate and almost to bird field her dog goes on point.right behind me maybe 20 yards so i just want to get out of there. My pup is circling as she flushes the bird and blank. her dog takes off after shot which is legall in SH. THen here comes my pup running in the direction of the other dog right there the judges called delay of chase on both dogs. are you effin kidding me. my dog didnt even point or see a bird and her dog broke after shot (that is legal for SH) and came back when called mine too. I was pissed. Fumming! First the judges are to buisy talking about things other then a test in progress not paying attention to dogs and then this enough!

Day two. Diffrent judges the judgees from prior day were put in juniors. and guess what juniors all had great days sat but almost all failed sunday. wow what a coincidents also during a JH run one judge gets off her horse goes in the woods takes a leek. um no way people are paying for this and want there dog judged sorry you stay on your hore until brace is over. thats like a handler saying time out i need to take a dump..
So MH are running and judges go to lunch just before the last brace cool they're hungry. so after lunch MH run they get to bird field no Birds! they never put birds out. one dog got a bird the other didnt and the one that didnt already finished MH just going again for the next level of mH cant think of it right now. so they were pissed too. Then I get out there to run and the judge tells us a retrive step is one of his steps mind you this guy was like six six thats like a giant step and a half for me and totally against the rules I about had it there. Then they have a third guy on horse releasing birds in the back field as they go. way against the rules way way! either a course is back field with bird field or continuous cant just change it and make it continuous in the middle. And yep i about had it. so we let the dogs go Im cooking trying to make it through this to the bird field and keep away from the other handler afraid the same bs will happen like yesterday. now im up there i turn and look and there the judges are both with the other handler instead of one with me. so i was like f them ill be at the bird field. just as i thought that i hear "handler handler stop and wait up!" are you kiddling me dude im on foot your on a horse lets go. so my dumba$$ stops and there goes my pup circling around back to them. at this point I had enough I was done. The other dog goes on point my dog backs. so now i have to walk 80 yards back to hold my dog and bs. by the time i got there I was steaming. I was happy my pup held steady honor for as long as it took me but i knew that he could do it. but still nice. so i get there grab my pup collar him. they shoot the blank for the bird. they said lets go i said no go sent my pup for a very very nice retrive and i was out of that sh!t hole club test. never been more happy to be done with a test and havve my dog mess up lol.

Never again will i use that club for testing my dog again and or them judges. I was not the only one complaining others let them know how they felt to. I just thought I would share my very horriable disapointing weekend with you guys. my dog did great these judges and there politics and made up policies was the down fall for the whole weekend test.

[DonF]

I didn't even finish reading your post. Sounds like they got anyone that had a horse and an RV to judge. There were times when I think that is exactly how the judges were chosen! Delayed chase in a senior test huh? That's pretty bad!

[dan v]

Then they have a third guy on horse releasing birds in the back field as they go. way against the rules way way! either a course is back field with bird field or continuous cant just change it and make it continuous in the middle.

I get that you're upset with many things, but what's the problem with the above?

[original mngsp]

It does sound like this test left a lot to be desired.

Regarding the planting of birds on the back course. It is required now, Chapter 3, Section 3.......

Section 3. Birds. Pheasants and/or chukars, and/or quail, and/or pigeons may be used in AKC-licensed or -member club Hunting Tests, as may any other species of upland game bird that might be unique to a specific region.
The premium list for a licensed or member Hunting Test shall specify the species of game to be used in each Test.
Birds should, if possible, be released in natural cover rather than in artificially created cover. They should not be placed in holes nor in such cover as will impede their ability to fly or run. Birds may be rocked or dizzied but not to such an extent as to affect their ability to fly. Game Stewards and bird planters should wear gloves and should not hold birds against their bodies.
In all test levels, a minimum of two birds shall be released for each brace, either before the start of, or during the running of each brace.
In a Test run on a single course without a bird field, the birds must be released at suitable places along the course. Whenever a bird field is used, the minimum of two birds per brace must be released in the bird field.
Regardless of which course option might be used, it is mandatory to plant the back course and to maintain a consistent number of birds both there and in the bird field throughout the event.

[cjhills]

Then they have a third guy on horse releasing birds in the back field as they go. way against the rules way way! either a course is back field with bird field or continuous cant just change it and make it continuous in the middle.

I get that you're upset with many things, but what's the problem with the above?

I wondered about that also.
Do you know anybody like that.
Sometimes you just need to go home and lick you wounds or they might write you up. Cj

[Ms. Cage]

campgsp wrote:Then they have a third guy on horse releasing birds in the back field as they go. way against the rules way way! either a course is back field with bird field or continuous cant just change it and make it continuous in the middle.

I get that you're upset with many things, but what's the problem with the above?

The only thing that matters to the dog is seeking, finding, and handling birds. Why would a change up from a bird field to a continuous coarse affect anything? Or a bird planter on a horse back planting?

[ElhewPointer]

If its a Hunt Test, why would you worry about what the other people's dogs would encounter. You are competing with a standard not with the other dogs so it wouldn't matter what is going on behind you.

[dan v]

campgsp wrote:Then they have a third guy on horse releasing birds in the back field as they go. way against the rules way way! either a course is back field with bird field or continuous cant just change it and make it continuous in the middle.

I get that you're upset with many things, but what's the problem with the above?

The only thing that matters to the dog is seeking, finding, and handling birds. Why would a change up from a bird field to a continuous coarse affect anything? Or a bird planter on a horse back planting?

My post really wasn't clear....If they indeed change from a bird field to a continuous course, then I can see that as a problem. More so with AKC than the handlers and dogs.

But planting birds on the back course with a horse? Sounds like a good plan to me.

[Ms. Cage]

My post really wasn't clear....If they indeed change from a bird field to a continuous course, then I can see that as a problem. More so with AKC than the handlers and dogs.

I take it if the premium stated bird field then that is how the test has to be run?

[deseeker]

Just keep a list of judges you won't run under---then don't run your dog under them. Don't hold it against the club--unless that is the only judges they use. You can look in the AKC judges directory--look up the judge name, you can then look up past assignments to find out which clubs use that judge and how often. I have sec and chairmaned hunting tests--there are two judges we won't use because they don't pay attention, make up rules to see what they want to see, give preferential treatment to friends, usually arrive late, etc. If you use them as judges you won't get many entries. All the breed clubs know that and won't use them--they basicly have have judged themselves into not being asked anymore. If you get a premium with judges you don't like, go to another test somewhere else. Then tell the local club why you didn't enter their test. It doesn't take long for the local clubs to figure out not to use those judges if they want entries.
AKC wants some birds planted on the back course as well as in the bird field.

PS I have a list of 4 judges I WON'T run my dogs under

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

It is actually MANDATORY to plant the back course and to keep it planted throughout the day to keep it consistent. Page 19 on the hunt test regs.

[cmc274]

Did you volunteer to help organize and execute next year's trial? I am positive the club would welcome your assistance over your complaints on the internet.

[ultracarry]

I never had a hunt test I considered horrible when my dog didn't pass. Was told how bad everything was at one and that only one dog passed both days from a guy at a training field. I laughed and pointed at mine.

If the dogs going to pass, you shouldn't sweat the small stuff. If you have a problem with the judges make a note like the others said. Make it fun because it sounds like your spun up worse than this new puppy I have.

[shags]

It's beyond annoying to pay your entry and then have the judges so distracted. A good way to deal with it is to handle your dog as usual, and when it has a find, yell "Point, Judge!". Most times it wakes 'em up and might even embarass 'em enough to stay on the job. When you become upset and angry, it affects your ability to help your dog, which as handler is your job; and when you're upset, your dog picks up on it and may not do as well as he would otherwise.

Keep a list of judges you like/don't like. When you seriously take issue with a judge's behavior, you can always let the event chairman know about it in a private and polite conversation.

Good luck at your next test.

[campgsp]

Then they have a third guy on horse releasing birds in the back field as they go. way against the rules way way! either a course is back field with bird field or continuous cant just change it and make it continuous in the middle.

I get that you're upset with many things, but what's the problem with the above?

the problem is there are rules that we have to follow and so should they. in an akc even like this the back field is to be used for obeidience not bird work. akc said the same thing i just got off the phone with them. birds are to be planted once in the morning and that is all. it is against the rules for a club holding an akc event to change its coursen during the day. sorry folks but i play by the rules and people who dont well thats why we have so much politics in akc. if i pay to run a continuous course then thats what im going to be doing with a gunner next to me. like i said other people there were complaining about this also not just me. its a game and all games should be played with rules.

[ezzy333]

Then they have a third guy on horse releasing birds in the back field as they go. way against the rules way way! either a course is back field with bird field or continuous cant just change it and make it continuous in the middle.

I get that you're upset with many things, but what's the problem with the above?

the problem is there are rules that we have to follow and so should they. in an akc even like this the back field is to be used for obeidience not bird work. akc said the same thing i just got off the phone with them. birds are to be planted once in the morning and that is all. it is against the rules for a club holding an akc event to change its coursen during the day. sorry folks but i play by the rules and people who dont well thats why we have so much politics in akc. if i pay to run a continuous course then thats what im going to be doing with a gunner next to me. like i said other people there were complaining about this also not just me. its a game and all games should be played with rules.

I agree with the rules for a game but never thought of a test as a game but more just a way to be able to show your dog to the judges so they can see what they need to. It isn't like you were competeing against anyone or a dog.

Ezzy

[Cajun Casey]

Birds are planted for each brace since it's allowed to kill in course, aren't they? Maybe the performance event participants should follow the lead of the conformation participants and start a judges report card group or Facebook page. That sure makes for some lively and revealing discussion.

[campgsp]

[/quote]

the problem is there are rules that we have to follow and so should they. in an akc even like this the back field is to be used for obeidience not bird work. akc said the same thing i just got off the phone with them. birds are to be planted once in the morning and that is all. it is against the rules for a club holding an akc event to change its coursen during the day. sorry folks but i play by the rules and people who dont well thats why we have so much politics in akc. if i pay to run a continuous course then thats what im going to be doing with a gunner next to me. like i said other people there were complaining about this also not just me. its a game and all games should be played with rules.[/quote]
I agree with the rules for a game but never thought of a test as a game but more just a way to be able to show your dog to the judges so they can see what they need to. It isn't like you were competeing against anyone or a dog.

Ezzy[/quote]

ezzy the judges kept staying back not with each handler. its hard to show your dog to them if they are not around or paying attention. they had me stop and wait for them. one should have been with me im on the clock.

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

I think you need to read the rules. Birds keep getting planted on the back course throughout the day to keep things consistent. Also, the name of the award that the handler was going for is called Master Hunter Advanced.

[brad27]

It does sound like this test left a lot to be desired.

Regarding the planting of birds on the back course. It is required now, Chapter 3, Section 3.......

Section 3. Birds. Pheasants and/or chukars, and/or quail, and/or pigeons may be used in AKC-licensed or -member club Hunting Tests, as may any other species of upland game bird that might be unique to a specific region.
The premium list for a licensed or member Hunting Test shall specify the species of game to be used in each Test.
Birds should, if possible, be released in natural cover rather than in artificially created cover. They should not be placed in holes nor in such cover as will impede their ability to fly or run. Birds may be rocked or dizzied but not to such an extent as to affect their ability to fly. Game Stewards and bird planters should wear gloves and should not hold birds against their bodies.
In all test levels, a minimum of two birds shall be released for each brace, either before the start of, or during the running of each brace.
In a Test run on a single course without a bird field, the birds must be released at suitable places along the course. Whenever a bird field is used, the minimum of two birds per brace must be released in the bird field.
Regardless of which course option might be used, it is mandatory to plant the back course and to maintain a consistent number of birds both there and in the bird field throughout the event.

+1

[Adam]

Then they have a third guy on horse releasing birds in the back field as they go. way against the rules way way! either a course is back field with bird field or continuous cant just change it and make it continuous in the middle.

I get that you're upset with many things, but what's the problem with the above?

the problem is there are rules that we have to follow and so should they. in an akc even like this the back field is to be used for obeidience not bird work. akc said the same thing i just got off the phone with them. birds are to be planted once in the morning and that is all. it is against the rules for a club holding an akc event to change its coursen during the day. sorry folks but i play by the rules and people who dont well thats why we have so much politics in akc. if i pay to run a continuous course then thats what im going to be doing with a gunner next to me. like i said other people there were complaining about this also not just me. its a game and all games should be played with rules.

The problem is you don't know what you're talking about...

The course did not "change" the backfield should be seeded with birds throughout the day the back field is not there to judge obedience the whole test is there to judge obedience. Read the rule book before you come online and bash somebody that is following the rules the bigger problem these days is clubs trying to save money by NOT seeding the back course with birds.

[ultracarry]

In a hunt test you are on foot.... The judges are on a horse. They can usually see you and your dog from a distance over 100 yards.

Now questions...

What is a senior hunter dog doing hunting behind you?
If your dog is ready to pass, shouldn't it pass?
Why are you worried about the judges?
Did you read the rules? Brad27 highlighted the UPDATED version.
Did you ask the judges to walk you through the test? It doesn't seen as though you are familiar with the process.

I was really new at one point and the judge walked me through step by step. Never seperated from the other judge though and they had a conversation about the two dogs running. Do you know exactly 100% what they were talking about?

My dog has failed a hunt test once. I took my lump and made sure it didn't happen again. It was my error. Sounds like you should do the same.

[campgsp]

[quote="ultracarry"]In a hunt test you are on foot.... The judges are on a horse. They can usually see you and your dog from a distance over 100 yards.

Now questions...

What is a senior hunter dog doing hunting behind you?
If your dog is ready to pass, shouldn't it pass?
Why are you worried about the judges?
Did you read the rules? Brad27 highlighted the UPDATED version.
Did you ask the judges to walk you through the test? It doesn't seen as though you are familiar with the process.

I was really new at one point and the judge walked me through step by step. Never seperated from the other judge though and they had a conversation about the two dogs running. Do you know exactly 100% what they were talking about?

he wasnt hunting behind me i stopped to wait for them like they asked he circled around.
my pup is ready for mh i run sh first though just because i like to do it this way
the judges aare the ones to qualify my dog i need them paying attention to my dog in order to receive a qualifing score
yes i read the rules but the amount of birds that are put in the back field was nuts more then the bird field i mean them birds are not being shot so its only addind more to the field. think abovut this. your dog points you flush fire blank now you have to heel off in new direction dog goes on point again repeat. soon you are running out of room to go. it was a tight back field not really any where to go.
yes i asked them and they said nothing matters in the back field right there i knew they wer fool of it. i know the process well. im not too caught up on what was going on with the back field as i was with the judging.
ok so now im the bad guy for caring about how the test was run. maybe i should just shut my mouth and continue to let judges walk all over me right?

sorry i brought it up guys now im just getting attacked. i just wanted to tell you all how bad the test turned out not just for me but others there to. im not upset that my dog didnt pass like i said i blew the second day on purpose. im receiving a refund from akc because they agreed with me three others who were there the same. so i know 100% what i am talking about.
thanks for asking though.

[Cajun Casey]

How can AKC give you a refund? They are not the organization that collected the entry.

[campgsp]

How can AKC give you a refund? They are not the organization that collected the entry.

i know i dont get it either they offered it though. i really dont even care about the money but since they offered.

[ultracarry]

Too many birds in a back course? News to me. Ive only had 5. Trained dogs will pass untrained dogs won't. can't find an infraction if they aren't watching.

Well Congrats on the refund.

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

I've had 5 in one back course and that was with a 13mo. old in an MH test.

[ultracarry]

You tied me but my dog was 15 months.

[bb560m]

Holy cow - either your dog passes or it doesn't. Who cares if they plant 5,000 birds, a covey, what's it matter. A broke dog is broke, regardless where the bird is. Calling the AKC... sound like a pita to have at a trial.

[campgsp]

Holy cow - either your dog passes or it doesn't. Who cares if they plant 5,000 birds, a covey, what's it matter. A broke dog is broke, regardless where the bird is. Calling the AKC... sound like a pita to have at a trial.

I'm really not a pita and I wasn't being one.
Like I said I don't care entirely about the back field. The judging sucked more. Like I said they were not paying attention to a dog that flushed a bird. The handler leashed his dog being honest and he ended up continuing on. Another dog failed for not finding a bird in bird field because no birds were released before his brace. A lot of other off the wall calls were called and made up rules. I could tell them all but it would take forever. Everyone is caught up on the back fields a lot more happened. That's why akc waas called. Know every reason before attacking me about callin akc . Plus I wasn't the only caller

Thank you.

[Ms. Cage]

Campgsp, IMO if you felt the judging that was that poor you had every right to call AKC and complain. Myself, I,ve never handled in a AKC test. Only NAVHDA Natural Ability.

Ultracarry, How many times did you handle your own dog to his FC and MH ?

[nikegundog]

And out comes the popcorn.