Speaking of dog food??

SCT · Post by **SCT** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:16 pm

I've got two male 5 month old pointers that I cannot get past the skinny weight where their ribs are showing well, hip bones protruding, and lean or narrow loin muscles. They appear to be very healthy and are from good lines, they eat like horses but if I leave food with them all the time they will eat too much. I feed them twice a day approximately 12 hours apart and I feed them enough (about 3 1/2 cups a day) to keep them from getting loose stools by having food in the lower gut too long. The food I feed, they were raised on since weaning and in the last 4 1/2 weeks that I received them they have gained about 2 lbs a week. My dog food is 24% protein and 20% fat.

Anyway, they are doing well and growing well, but I'm just a bit frustrated that they won't fill out just a little. The bigger male had extra weight up until a week ago. Any body have any ideas to put a bit more weight on them??

I believe this is how they are going to be until adulthood unless I can find something to boost their weight. Is there any good oils that might help?

Thanks,

Steve

duckn66 · Post by **duckn66** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:12 am

I have 2, 12 week old English Pointers. I feed Iams puppy food 3 times a day. I feel mine are just about right weight wise. It could be there age as well. Could be that they just don't respond to the food your feeding as well.

Hopefully someone will come along with a better answer.

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:03 am

my pup a SM was boney until he got to 7 months old.fed him 3 cups a day of canidae als.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:06 am

Buttermilk, about half a cup per feeding.

SCT · Post by **SCT** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:07 am

Buttermilk?? That's one I didn't think of. I know they had powdered milk when smaller, so it should be fine on their tummies. I'll try some and put them on it slowly. I'm just hoping the extra fat won't mess them up.

Thanks,

Steve

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:18 am

I would suggest that you just keep feeding them what you are since you listed off every requirement of good halth and said they were good. Only report that sounded bad was that you would like to see them fatter. I TOO, WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT I AM SURE BUT i ALSO WOULD HAVE THE PATIENCE TO WAIT AND LET THAT HAPPEN ON THEIR TIME.

Healthy tops looks while pups are in the growing stage of life.

Ezzy

JKP · Post by **JKP** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:25 am

What EZZY said...a big +1 !!!!

What about the other signs??? Active?? healthy?? eyes bright?? in good coat?? etc, etc, etc???

The weight will come. At this age, the hormone "push" hasn't really started yet. I wouldn't be pushing the fat and calories. Try switching formulations...if your chicken based now....go to a beef or fish based....might improve absorption. I feed fish based to young dogs.

GrayDawg · Post by **GrayDawg** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:40 am

I have a 4 month old PM who eats twice a day, ~12 hours apart. He gets a total of three cups of food/day.
I can see his ribs when he inhales..... no protruding hip bones. He is 26.5 lbs.

It sounds like you are doing everything right. someone else said it- wait a few months and allow their puppy
metabolism to slow down....... both pups will fill out nice, I'm sure.

Oh yeah, the food my pup is on breaks down as follows:

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS:

Protein (min) ................................................................... 30.0%
Fat (min) ........................................................................ 20.0%
Crude Fiber (max) ............................................................. 3.50%
Moisture (max) ................................................................ 10.00%
Omega-6 Fatty Acids (min) ................................................... 3.50%
Omega-3 Fatty Acids (min) ................................................... 0.45%

CALORIE COUNT:

4409 kcal ME / kg
(2000 kcal ME / lb)
(calculated)

Top 8 ingredients (by percentage & in order) as follows:
- Chicken Meal
- Chicken Fat (Stabilized with Mixed Tocopherols)
- Ground Rice
- Ground Oats
- Ground Barley
- Beet Pulp
- Fish Meal
- Ground Flaxseeds

I won't post the name of it here, as I don't want anyone accusing me of attempting to hijack the thread.
If you want the name of this food, PM me- I'll gladly share the name of the brand of dog food it with you.

Rob

SCT · Post by **SCT** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:54 am

I know what you guys are saying and the pups are perfectly healthy. I just think a thin layer under the skin could help keep them warm during these cold months. I'm not switching foods, I like what they're eating, they like what they're eating. I've already been that route and am satisfied with the food they are getting, I've experimented enough with that. I just want to try a small supplement to put a thin layer on top of what they have now, which is minimal. I don't want FAT pups Ezzy (I've never had fat 5 month old pointer pups, didn't know that was possible:-)), but I also don't want skinny pups through the winter. They get out in the field about 3-4 times a week and no doubt that's contributing to their bony butts.

Thanks Cajun Casey, I'll give it a try and watch them closely.

Thanks Rob

Steve

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:30 am

I feed the same exact % of food, dogs 5 1/2 months, can see ribs, hips, backbone and very well muscled. Wish I could keep him like this his entire life. A lot of stamina and runs nice.

If he stopped running at 20 minutes I would be concerned but this little sucker will keep going. The roan blocks out a lot of his ribs but you can run your hand over and feel almost every one. Sucker shot up like a bean pole.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:39 am

SCT wrote:Buttermilk?? That's one I didn't think of. I know they had powdered milk when smaller, so it should be fine on their tummies. I'll try some and put them on it slowly. I'm just hoping the extra fat won't mess them up.

Thanks,

Steve

Buttermilk is fairly low fat. It's the acidity and enzymes that help break down the lipids (fats) in their ration and make those components more digestible. It's cheap, quick to see results (like a week) and pretty harmless. Makes good biscuits, too.

SCT · Post by **SCT** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:03 pm

Thanks Cajun,

Ultra, it's difficult to tell from your photo but these pups are a fair amount skinnier than yours. You can see all the definition of every rib, the top of the spine, and the hip bones protrude. Like I said, they are perfectly healthy and I have to catch them in the field because they won't come in if they know I'm going to put them up in the truck to go home. They don't quit (except maybe in a real cold blizzard), I just want to fill in some of the really thin areas. Their muscles are forming well and they are growing well and their range is starting to stretch out pretty good, sometimes out to 800 yards. They are not weak by any means.

Thanks guys,

Steve

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:44 pm

I had the same problem with Bodie. Watched it several month's and he appeared fine but worry got the best of me. I took him to the vet and got a complete check up, nothing wrong. Here I am five years later and he's still thin and wired. Looks a lot better when his coat grows out some!

SCT · Post by **SCT** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:48 pm

These guys will also look better when they're adults and muscled up, like my one year old female that's closely related to them. She's thin, but muscled up and looks real good.

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:09 pm

SCT,

I would look into PROZYME digestive enzyme. It can make a huge difference. Check their web site for more info.

http://www.prozymeproducts.com/

Fester · Post by **Fester** » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:45 pm

ever notice how a skinny dog seems to fly about 2 feet above the field? skiiny can be healthy as well and I also bett they will be hunting when there 12 years old, nothing prettier than a good healthy dog in the field and that equals thin to me, a fat dogs huffin and puffin has a tendency to turn me off
Fester

SubMariner · Post by **SubMariner** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:30 pm

SCT wrote:Thanks Cajun,

Ultra, it's difficult to tell from your photo but these pups are a fair amount skinnier than yours. You can see all the definition of every rib, the top of the spine, and the hip bones protrude. Like I said, they are perfectly healthy and I have to catch them in the field because they won't come in if they know I'm going to put them up in the truck to go home. They don't quit (except maybe in a real cold blizzard), I just want to fill in some of the really thin areas. Their muscles are forming well and they are growing well and their range is starting to stretch out pretty good, sometimes out to 800 yards. They are not weak by any means.

Thanks guys,

Steve

You may want to consider a higher protein/high fat food like EVO Turkey/Chicken. Analysis here: http://www.evopet.com/products/1571. They also do a beef and fish version.

At one point we were feeding our first GSP 4 cups of Exceed and he was still "starving village dog" thin & had huge amounts of "output". After switching him to the EVO he gained muscle, his coat improved and his energy level (which was always high) increased even more.

We currently have both our GSPs on this food and they are doing great. In good field condition now that The Season has arrived, which has served them well thus far. BTW, they need only 2 1/4 cups per day since the food is very calorie dense; during the Summer when they are less active outdoors we usually have them down to about 2 cups/day.

JMHO,

SCT · Post by **SCT** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:24 pm

Thanks Sub, but I just can't spend almost $3 per pound on dog food unless maybe they only require 1 cup a day on it. The buttermilk seems to be making a slight difference and it's only been 3 days. After a week of this treatment I may try adding some PURE pumpkin to their diet if I'm not satisfied with the results from the buttermilk.

Thanks everyone for your advice. I'll let you know how they turn out.

Steve

SubMariner · Post by **SubMariner** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:17 pm

SCT wrote:Thanks Sub, but I just can't spend almost $3 per pound on dog food unless maybe they only require 1 cup a day on it. The buttermilk seems to be making a slight difference and it's only been 3 days. After a week of this treatment I may try adding some PURE pumpkin to their diet if I'm not satisfied with the results from the buttermilk.

Thanks everyone for your advice. I'll let you know how they turn out.

Steve

Steve, you need to look at this spreadsheet: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=35491#p335008 to figure out how much kibbles cost to feed a dog per day. It will put things in perspective as to the price at the checkout vs what it actually costs to feed.

Pax,

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:38 am

SubMariner wrote:
SCT wrote:Thanks Sub, but I just can't spend almost $3 per pound on dog food unless maybe they only require 1 cup a day on it. The buttermilk seems to be making a slight difference and it's only been 3 days. After a week of this treatment I may try adding some PURE pumpkin to their diet if I'm not satisfied with the results from the buttermilk.

Thanks everyone for your advice. I'll let you know how they turn out.

Steve
Steve, you need to look at this spreadsheet: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=35491#p335008 to figure out how much kibbles cost to feed a dog per day. It will put things in perspective as to the price at the checkout vs what it actually costs to feed.

Pax,

I have found it doesn't mwork that way. You can not calculate cost to feed a dog from the label that lists only the recommended amount and not what the dog eats or needs. I have never found a 3 dollar a pound feed anywhere near as cheap to feed as a 1dollar a pound feed. And those are as cheap as a 50 to 60 cent a pound feed. If you want to know how much it will cost with any feed you will have to use it for 2 or 3 months for your dog and see how much each dog will eat by it's condition. And then you have to have accurate measurements of intake and also of results.

Ezzy

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:43 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
SubMariner wrote:
SCT wrote:Thanks Sub, but I just can't spend almost $3 per pound on dog food unless maybe they only require 1 cup a day on it. The buttermilk seems to be making a slight difference and it's only been 3 days. After a week of this treatment I may try adding some PURE pumpkin to their diet if I'm not satisfied with the results from the buttermilk.

Thanks everyone for your advice. I'll let you know how they turn out.

Steve
Steve, you need to look at this spreadsheet: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=35491#p335008 to figure out how much kibbles cost to feed a dog per day. It will put things in perspective as to the price at the checkout vs what it actually costs to feed.

Pax,
I have found it doesn't mwork that way. You can not calculate cost to feed a dog from the label that lists only the recommended amount and not what the dog eats or needs. I have never found a 3 dollar a pound feed anywhere near as cheap to feed as a 1dollar a pound feed. And those are as cheap as a 50 to 60 cent a pound feed. If you want to know how much it will cost with any feed you will have to use it for 2 or 3 months for your dog and see how much each dog will eat by it's condition. And then you have to have accurate measurements of intake and also of results.

Ezzy

You don't understand the concept behind that spreadsheet if you think that.

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:49 am

I understand and agree with the concept of the spreadsheet as it is calculated on published cost and how much is recommended to be fed. For it to be accfurate for any given dog you need to use your actual cost and the actual amount the dog requires ti stay in condition. Every dog is different and the cost of the feed is different for everyone depending on the part of the country and the cost of getting it delivered.

Ezzy.

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:52 pm

Ezzy, this is the correct thread for the finished spreadsheet. My first post in it covers everything you just mentioned.
viewtopic.php?f=88&t=35847&p=338404&hil ... et#p338404

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:49 pm

brad27 wrote:Ezzy, this is the correct thread for the finished spreadsheet. My first post in it covers everything you just mentioned.
viewtopic.php?f=88&t=35847&p=338404&hil ... et#p338404

I agree and it is a great tool as long as people use the actual figures and not what a bag says.

SubMariner · Post by **SubMariner** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:41 am

brad27 wrote:Ezzy, this is the correct thread for the finished spreadsheet. My first post in it covers everything you just mentioned.
viewtopic.php?f=88&t=35847&p=338404&hil ... et#p338404

Thanks for putting up the link to the "finished spreadsheet", Brad. My apologies for any confusion my error may have caused.

Regardless, it is an excellent tool & gives people a good start into looking into how much it actually costs to feed a dog vs. just comparing prices at the checkout.

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:05 pm

SubMariner wrote:
brad27 wrote:Ezzy, this is the correct thread for the finished spreadsheet. My first post in it covers everything you just mentioned.
viewtopic.php?f=88&t=35847&p=338404&hil ... et#p338404
Thanks for putting up the link to the "finished spreadsheet", Brad. My apologies for any confusion my error may have caused.

Regardless, it is an excellent tool & gives people a good start into looking into how much it actually costs to feed a dog vs. just comparing prices at the checkout.

Nope, no error on your part. I just thought Ezzy wasn't understanding what you/I was saying so I posted the other thread where I thought I explained it better.

SCT · Post by **SCT** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:08 am

Okay, so at the end of a long week of adding 1/2 cup to their feeding I have to say I really don't see a difference in additional layers. I will add some pure pumpkin to their diet and see if that helps. Truth is, I think they will probably just grow up the way they are. I will look harder at the spread sheet when I get a chance, but these guys may have a metabolism that I can only try and keep up with. Their stools have been perfect through the buttermilk addition.

Had them out on the chukar hills yesterday and for the first half hour they did real well with taking good sized casts and finding their way back to me. After that the smaller male went on an adventure and ended up 1 mile to the southeast. 10 minutes later the bigger male took a long cast and didn't come back. He was a mile to the northeast when we caught up to him. They might be a bit too much for chukar hunting. They could do well in the field trials though. Started at 8:00 am and picked them up at 10:30 am.

Steve

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