when is enough enough

[lockedncupped]

My Chessie turned 10 yesterday. Last fall I took here grouse and woodcock hunting in Michigan and she didn't miss a beat. In the mornings she was sore and often didn't want to get up, but once she was up moving around she hunted great. We didn't hunt real hard, maybe an hour or so a day. She doesn't cover much ground but she gets birdie and lets you know to get ready, the most important thing is she finds and retrieves shot birds wonderfully.

Last Sept I bought my first GSP. He has a couple of wild quail hunts under his belt. He has found one covey on two hunts. He has also been to a preserve last January and found and pointed 12 Chuckars...and retrieved them. He has no other bird contact other than a handful of quail I planted in the field by the house. I could not shoot these birds do to the location.

This Oct I have leased a farm in SD. I plan on hunting the 1st five days of the season. My dad tells me not to take my Chessie. I think she can be an asset, and will love to go out west. Ideally I would like her to simulate the behavior she does when we are here at the park... (Walk beside me and laugh at the crazy running GSP). I just don't want to over do it with her, and don't want to have her interfer with the pups progress. (thoughts)

What should I expect from the GSP. My dad has owned 3 and he tells me that the dog will figure it out minutes after we get in a field with birds. I also asked my dad to not shoot roosters that the dog doesn't point......he has insisted that any rooster that gets up in gun range will be shot at after spending the money and driving 1600 miles. My uncle has owned 6 gsp's and I expressed my concern of my dad doing this and possibly turning the dog into a flusher...he says he has had the same mentality as my dad, and rooster that gets up he shoots at. (Thoughts)

Really excited about this fall, planning the trip now.....well really trying to manage the funds. I got some unexpected medical bills, and a daughter leaving for college in a month...trying to figure out where I can save a buck.

Thanks for the insight,

Josh

[bobman]

I would take my chessie and hunt it with the shoot anything that gets up crew and only hunt with the gsp pup without those two guys

Shooting birds a gsp pup is flushing will not be a good idea and fwiw Ive been training GSPs 42 years

My 2 cents

Plus having two or three guys blasting away at pheasants has made a lot of pups gun shy, until the dogs had a season of shooting over it one gun that will cooperate with you is the only thing the dog should be exposed to

[DoubleBarrel GunDogs]

It seems that your Dad and your Uncle would be best served owning flushing dogs, and not flushing GSP's but Labs or Springers. A pointing dog that is allowed to root out birds is no longer a pointing dog. You don't want your dog flushing birds out of gun range, and the only ways to prevent that are the right way: Train him to point and hold birds. Or the wrong way: Put a lot of pressure on him in the field, and force him to hunt more like a flusher.

It's your dog. You should train him in the manner that will result in the finished dog you want. My guess is that neither of your senior hunting partners has ever hunted over a steady dog. Not trying to sound smug, but this is very commonplace. The fact is that most people haven't.

Nate

[roaniecowpony]

I have a lab and pointer. Not much different combination than yours. I made the mistake of running the two dogs together. It wasn't long before the lab figured out the point meant bird. The lab charged in on a few points and my professionally trained steady to wing and shot was no longer steady to wing and shot. It took me a lot of time and effort to get back to steady again. I'm convinced if I would have run them together another few birds I would have a very expensive 500 yard flushing dog.

Regarding shooting birds the dog didn't point. I'd advise you consider going off by yourself with the gsp. Your uncle and dad can have plenty of fun with the chessie. In fact, my trips to SD have resulted in my lab being more productive in the kind of heavy tall cover on the properties I hunt.

[RoostersMom]

I, too, have a chessie (well, two now) and a GSP, plus a smattering of other pointing breeds. It wasn't long before our now 12 year old chessie learned that a standing still dog meant BIRDS right there. She actually ran over our young pointer to flush a covey once. Bad dog..... Hunting a young dog with a different type of hunting dog will be hard to do successfully. We can hunt ours together now because we worked with the chessie enough that she actually "points" birds now and honors other dogs every time.

As for the shooting unpointed birds over the GSP, I would take the advice from others and only hunt your pup with people that are dedicated to helping you train the dog - not guys who don't care what your objective is. You'll surely be teaching the dog to flush birds - and when the dog does so out of sight or out of gun range, that will just lead to all kinds of problems. You'll be mad and the dog will be put under unnecessary pressure. Let this dog have one season of doing things right - it's one out of at least 10 more you'll likely have. The concern over many guns over a young dog is justified as well, IMO.

[RayGubernat]

First of all, with all due respect to your Dad ...your dog...your call. Period . End of discussion.

I personally would hunt the two dogs separately for most of the reasons already mentioned. The chessie WILL teach the pointer bad habits. You don't need that.

I would go to my vet and get a supply of Rimadyl for the trip. One pill, a half hour before the old dog hits the field will go a long way toward lessening the soreness and stiffness the next day. Just remember that it is partially the drugs that are helping out and not overdo it with the old timer.

Honestly, I would be less concerned about shooting a rooster or two that the dog bumped than I would about a fussilade of 12 gauges going off. Having multiple heavy gauge guns, with full base loads pounding away is a really wonderful way of making a dog gunshy.

If I had a young dog with limited exposure to guns, I would insist that the members of my party take turns shooting and that only one gun fire at any given time and ...AT MOST... 2 shots are fired at one time...but again, your dog, your call. If someone pulls up and shoots anyway, I would leash my dog and just walk away. Done.

If, as the week progresses, the dog shows less sensitivity to gunfire...that is great, that is what you hope to see...but just remember...one salvo can send a youngster between your legs with its tail tucked. You don't need that. No mistakes...no oopsies, no "I didn't think...", no second chances.

Again...all due respect , but in my experience, most folks don't really care if they screw up someone else's dog. They are more concerned with having a good time.

It aint' their dog and it won't be their problem to deal with once the trip is over.

Once again...your dog...your call.

RayG

[lockedncupped]

Guys thanks for the thoughts. I may have been misleading as it is only my father and I and the two dogs making the trip. I had asked my uncle for his opinion on my dad, and would it ruin the dog if my dad shoots unpointed birds? It was of his opinion which was similiar to that of my dads, he didn't care if the bird was pointed or not as long as the dog found and got it up. I assume that his dogs were not fully broke as mentioned in a previous post. I thought since he had 6 shorthairs that he expected them to be good pointing dogs. He tells me stories of trips to Iowa and SD where they would just let the dogs go, and sit in the truck snd wait for them to go on point b4 even walking out in the field.....(maybe that was a fish tale) I took it as true when asking his opinion. I personally love my Chessie and she has been the best retrieving dog, and close working grouse dog that I have ever had. My previous dogs were a Springer and a Black lab. I almost bought another Chessie, however living in the south I feel bad for the heat that the dog is subject to day in and day out. I am also making the transition from a 60 days afield duck hunter to a more of a upland hunter. All my dad says when we are out hunting is man you would find 2x as many birds with a shorthair. So now I have a shorthair. I like the pup, and am optimistic for things to come. He comes from a good breeder, and appears to have a high prey drive.....I just worry he does not get enough bird exposure. Hopefully SD helps. When in South Dakota should I concentrate on smaller areas like ditches, and fence lines, to help the dog find success or should I let him cover big areas?

[roaniecowpony]

There's something about South Dakota pheasant hunting that makes a lot of guys want to be Audie Murphy (war hero, shot a lot). They go to the sporting goods stores and buy the biggest baddest loads they can afford for their 12 ga autos and pumps. In SD, every year I see guys taking out plugs so they can get those 5 shells in there. The groups are generally large. There's a lot of excitement and action. People get caught up in it, even older people.

Most aren't birdog owners. So they don't have a clue about any safety or etiquette when hunting with dogs. A big mistake non-dog owners will make when shooting a pointed bird is to walk right up from directly behind the dog and shoot directly over the top of the dog. Imagine what it would be like without ear protection having a heavy load 12ga go off a few feet over your head. It's your dog. Be protective of it. No one else will.

[Grange]

First of all, with all due respect to your Dad ...your dog...your call. Period . End of discussion.

I disagree with that IF the father is also paying for the lease. If the father put up his own money for the lease to hunt pheasant is is not fair to tell him he can't shoot some of the pheasant. Now if the OP put up all the money for the lease and invited his father to hunt then yes the father should respect the OP's wishes.

As far as hunting the ponting dog with a flusher I do it all the time and don't have problems. I think they are a great team.

[topher40]

Grange-
Easy way around this is to not put the dog down when dad is hunting. Then he can shoot whatever he wants.

[cjhills]

You would be amazed how quickly dogs learn what is expected of them. When I guide the clients who are paying $400 to $800 day they shoot everything that flies and that the dogs accidentally flush. Can't blame them shooting is fun, they are not dog people and they are there to have a good time. The dogs retrieve to hand. These same dogs come home and pass master tests. All are master titled, they will chase Pheasants to posters in cornfields, they will go with 2 or 3 gunners in the crp, point and be steady to wing shot and fall, they will honor through the retrieve , they will hunt 2000 yards out and hold point forever on huns and sharptails in the short grass prairies.
I am one that gets caught up in the action and shoot a auto loader, it is exciting and fun. I also enjoy a nice calm hunt with my dogs and me and maybe one other gun. My dogs need to do both and they do. If your dad wants to shoot let him shoot. You can have a lot of dogs, only one dad.
When I hunt with my family we hunt GSps, Goldens, Springers and Mutts all together sometimes more dogs than gunners. It is a free for all but it sure is fun. Only rule is birds have to be sky lighted. Cj

[Neil]

You would be amazed how quickly dogs learn what is expected of them. When I guide the clients who are paying $400 to $800 day they shoot everything that flies and that the dogs accidentally flush. Can't blame them shooting is fun, they are not dog people and they are there to have a good time. The dogs retrieve to hand. These same dogs come home and pass master tests. All are master titled, they will chase Pheasants to posters in cornfields, they will go with 2 or 3 gunners in the crp, point and be steady to wing shot and fall, they will honor through the retrieve , they will hunt 2000 yards out and hold point forever on huns and sharptails in the short grass prairies.
I am one that gets caught up in the action and shoot a auto loader, it is exciting and fun. I also enjoy a nice calm hunt with my dogs and me and maybe one other gun. My dogs need to do both and they do. If your dad wants to shoot let him shoot. You can have a lot of dogs, only one dad.
When I hunt with my family we hunt GSps, Goldens, Springers and Mutts all together sometimes more dogs than gunners. It is a free for all but it sure is fun. Only rule is birds have to be sky lighted. Cj

Well said. I trained dog should remain staunch/steady without regard to other factors. It should not matter what other dogs or people do or don't do.

If the dogs are to be hunted together, both must honor. If other hunters are going to shoot unpointed birds, the pointing dog should stop to flush or shot, the retriever should sit to both.

[Wildweeds]

Myself personally if my dad made a statement about shooting anything that flies,He's going to be hunting with the flusher only,take the chesapeake and he can hunt over her. Second of all,every time I've been to South Dakota there has been more than enough birds to limit out over perfect dogwork,your pup will benefit greatly by lots of bird contacts and only getting the birds that are handled correctly shot.Iv'e taken numerous inexperianced young dogs to South Dakota and they all get the same routine,I hunt them alone without a group,I only shoot the birds they point,at the end of the trip they have had a bunch of birds shot for them,and handle birds well.

[roaniecowpony]

Since th OP said he got his GSP last fall, I just assumed the dog was young and not steady and experienced. Maybe I was mistaken.

[lockedncupped]

Thats correct, the pup is now approaching 1 year old. He is inexperienced and not steady. I think things will turn out fine.

[roaniecowpony]

Just my opinion about my dog and the place I hunt in SD, but I don't put my pointer into standing cornfields. Thats a place for a flusher IMO and only one with a good handle or it will run way out in front and flush everything in the field out of range.

[cjhills]

Try to get a really solid whoa on that pup, so you can stop him on a accidental flush. Nothing wrong with shooting birds accidentally flushed by the dog or hunters. But we like to see the dog stop and be sent to retrieve. We don't like people shooting birds the dog flushes intentionally. We also need the dog to chase wounded birds, he has to learn that he can chase some but not others. How does he learn the difference? We like confident, natural, outgoing dogs. Not over trained robots.
Pretty hard to hunt standing corn without blockers. Birds usually fly out the ends or side out of range. Cj

[roaniecowpony]

Standing corn is a traditional way they hunt at our friends farm. Blockers and drivers. I'm not much for it, but they are longtime friends and it has gotten more about visiting with them. They like me to bring my lab to help with the retrieving and flushing in the heavy cover. I haven't been using my pointer in neck high reeds. I think my lab is the right dog for that cover if there is such a thing. But when the birds are scarce, we can find em in the reeds. I put my pointer out in lighter cover where I have a good chance to see her on point.

[birddog1968]

Hunting dogs together isn't a problem as long as they understand what the object is and have developed a rapport together. If your just throwing dogs together hoping for the best .....well your gonna get what you get. I have no problem hunting my pointers with my Lab. They all hunt for the gun, so nobody is rushing in to try and beat the other to the birds. Its all about training and giving those dogs time to learn how to hunt together. My pointers honor my Lab and the Lab will honor the pointers, he won't flush if the gun isn't there to take the bird. He will look back, see where I am and wait for my arrival. On his own he will hold birds until i get there.

Just like anything , hunting with one dog or many is about development.....if your just out there hoping things work out the way you envision them than your going to get what you get.

My Lab will point and hold birds when he hunts alone and flush on command, or if hunting with the pointers he understands he's going to be flushing but still waits for the gun (me) to arrive, no point in flushing something thats going to fly away, hows he know this? because that's how he was developed with training and lots of exposure and experience. The pointers know he will be flushing the birds they point....how do they know this? Exposure and development.

This is 3 pointers and the lab waiting for the GUN to arrive on scene, all honoring each other.....

[Sharon]

My Chessie turned 10 yesterday. Last fall I took here grouse and woodcock hunting in Michigan and she didn't miss a beat. In the mornings she was sore and often didn't want to get up, but once she was up moving around she hunted great. We didn't hunt real hard, maybe an hour or so a day. She doesn't cover much ground but she gets birdie and lets you know to get ready, the most important thing is she finds and retrieves shot birds wonderfully.

Last Sept I bought my first GSP. He has a couple of wild quail hunts under his belt. He has found one covey on two hunts. He has also been to a preserve last January and found and pointed 12 Chuckars...and retrieved them. He has no other bird contact other than a handful of quail I planted in the field by the house. I could not shoot these birds do to the location.

This Oct I have leased a farm in SD. I plan on hunting the 1st five days of the season. My dad tells me not to take my Chessie. I think she can be an asset, and will love to go out west. Ideally I would like her to simulate the behavior she does when we are here at the park... (Walk beside me and laugh at the crazy running GSP). I just don't want to over do it with her, and don't want to have her interfer with the pups progress. (thoughts)

What should I expect from the GSP. My dad has owned 3 and he tells me that the dog will figure it out minutes after we get in a field with birds. I also asked my dad to not shoot roosters that the dog doesn't point......he has insisted that any rooster that gets up in gun range will be shot at after spending the money and driving 1600 miles. My uncle has owned 6 gsp's and I expressed my concern of my dad doing this and possibly turning the dog into a flusher...he says he has had the same mentality as my dad, and rooster that gets up he shoots at. (Thoughts)

Really excited about this fall, planning the trip now.....well really trying to manage the funds. I got some unexpected medical bills, and a daughter leaving for college in a month...trying to figure out where I can save a buck.

Thanks for the insight,

Josh

You and your Dad are on different pages . Be aggravated or time to hunt with someone else.( I would run the Chessie and GSP together but I would take the Chessie and run it by itself.)