What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
I know I know, another one of these posts, but I have some specific criteria I'm looking for. I recently had to put down my 6 year old golden retriever/german shepherd mix. He wasn't a spectacular hunter, but in every other category he was really the best dog I ever had. I'm now looking for a more serious hunting dog, so what do I need?
I hunt or plan to hunt:
1) Fur (deer, hogs, small game)
2) Dove
3) Upland
4) Duck
Criteria:
1) My wife is only barely tolerating us getting a puppy, and she wants something that she considers pretty, which is anything without a mottled coat, and I generally prefer longer haired dogs
2) This is my first gun dog, so I'm looking for a pretty trainable dog. My last dog spoiled me- he was easy.
3) ~50 pounds or more
4) I prefer closer, rather than longer-ranging dogs
Any suggestions? My front runners right now are Langhaars, Red Setters, and on the retrieving side Golden Retrievers
I hunt or plan to hunt:
1) Fur (deer, hogs, small game)
2) Dove
3) Upland
4) Duck
Criteria:
1) My wife is only barely tolerating us getting a puppy, and she wants something that she considers pretty, which is anything without a mottled coat, and I generally prefer longer haired dogs
2) This is my first gun dog, so I'm looking for a pretty trainable dog. My last dog spoiled me- he was easy.
3) ~50 pounds or more
4) I prefer closer, rather than longer-ranging dogs
Any suggestions? My front runners right now are Langhaars, Red Setters, and on the retrieving side Golden Retrievers
Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
I'm stumped. Lots of long haired dog can hunt the last 3, but the fur to include deer and hog, usually requires a hound in any way I know to hunt them, so I think it eliminates them all.
A Boykin might do it, but they are beneath your size standard. Small Munsterland? Too small? Wirehair?
I will tune in later.
P. S. Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Langhaar it is, I don't know if they will start a deer or hog, but apparently they are used to recover game.
A Boykin might do it, but they are beneath your size standard. Small Munsterland? Too small? Wirehair?
I will tune in later.
P. S. Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Langhaar it is, I don't know if they will start a deer or hog, but apparently they are used to recover game.
- Ruffshooter
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Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Small or large Munsterlander.
Drathar
GSP
Pudel Pointer.
Weimaramer.
Please excuse the spelling.
Drathar
GSP
Pudel Pointer.
Weimaramer.
Please excuse the spelling.
- mountaindogs
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Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Also ask yourself honestly how much excersize will the dog get and how much dirt will the wife tolerate the dog bringing in on the coat. Do you like dogs that are spazzy and joyous all the time or mostly calm with spurts of field energy when needed. Or more methodical with hunting slower paced.
What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Great question- and this is something I've been thinking about. I think we'll need a dog that can be more calm when needed with energy when that's needed. If he's too high powered I can see it being an issue!mountaindogs wrote:Also ask yourself honestly how much excersize will the dog get and how much dirt will the wife tolerate the dog bringing in on the coat. Do you like dogs that are spazzy and joyous all the time or mostly calm with spurts of field energy when needed. Or more methodical with hunting slower paced.
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Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Honestly I'm stumped on the deer and hogs too... but for everything else it sounds like you're looking for a springer... except its about 5-10 lbs too small. If you're looking for a versatile breed to do it all you can't go wrong with a field bred springer (unless size doesn't matter then of course I'd say english cocker hahaha).
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Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Just searched langhaars! Those are awesome - they look like a massive cocker lolNeil wrote: P. S. Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Langhaar it is, I don't know if they will start a deer or hog, but apparently they are used to recover game.
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Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Pudelpointer or solid shorthair.
Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Large Munsterlanders fit that same niche and basic form factor as the DL's they share history but have been a separate breed for some time. black and white vs brown and white.
Out of curiosity, since deer and hog are on the todo list would there be an advantage to an import from Germany (where that is more normal) or just a breeder that test to the German standard?
Out of curiosity, since deer and hog are on the todo list would there be an advantage to an import from Germany (where that is more normal) or just a breeder that test to the German standard?
What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
I should clarify this- I'm not looking for a dog to take down a hog, but I'm looking for a bird dog who could track a blood trail or retrieve a squirrel for me. Of course, this would just be a bonus. I only listed fur first because its what I do the most of, which is to say my dog and I won't be out chasing birds every week of the year. A lot of time will be spent out in the woods prepping for deer season- so a good companion is important!CDN_Cocker wrote:Honestly I'm stumped on the deer and hogs too... but for everything else it sounds like you're looking for a springer... except its about 5-10 lbs too small. If you're looking for a versatile breed to do it all you can't go wrong with a field bred springer (unless size doesn't matter then of course I'd say english cocker hahaha).
Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Sounds like a GWP to me
Ezzy
Ezzy
Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
I have seen some very good Langhaars and Large Munsties . Both breeds would hunt and point and retrieve and both breeds would take a blood scent trail too ....if trained and perhaps without being trained on deer. I don't know about wild pigs, never see any. I'm told by the Munstie folk that they often give tongue when tracking deer or when they have found a dead or wounded deer. The drawback to a Munstie or a Langhaar might be their hunting range, the better dogs do tend to range out a bit. The Munstie has a mottled coat which you say you do not like ?
Personally I would not use a setter for deer or pig hunting but I do not doubt that some of them would do the job. If I were looking for an "easy-going" dog that isn't too hard to train , I'd maybe go for a Wire Haired Vizsla . I don't know how this breed would do if worked on pigs but probably O.K. if you don't need the dog to go in for a grip. Many of this breed are "softies" by nature and tend to hunt fairly close.
Bill T.
Personally I would not use a setter for deer or pig hunting but I do not doubt that some of them would do the job. If I were looking for an "easy-going" dog that isn't too hard to train , I'd maybe go for a Wire Haired Vizsla . I don't know how this breed would do if worked on pigs but probably O.K. if you don't need the dog to go in for a grip. Many of this breed are "softies" by nature and tend to hunt fairly close.
Bill T.
Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Personally , any breed will do with the right training?zachw wrote:I know I know, another one of these posts, but I have some specific criteria I'm looking for. I recently had to put down my 6 year old golden retriever/german shepherd mix. He wasn't a spectacular hunter, but in every other category he was really the best dog I ever had. I'm now looking for a more serious hunting dog, so what do I need?
I hunt or plan to hunt:
1) Fur (deer, hogs, small game)
2) Dove
3) Upland
4) Duck
Criteria:
1) My wife is only barely tolerating us getting a puppy, and she wants something that she considers pretty, which is anything without a mottled coat, and I generally prefer longer haired dogs
2) This is my first gun dog, so I'm looking for a pretty trainable dog. My last dog spoiled me- he was easy.
3) ~50 pounds or more
4) I prefer closer, rather than longer-ranging dogs
Any suggestions? My front runners right now are Langhaars, Red Setters, and on the retrieving side Golden Retrievers
All these have had fur and feather and a few more besides!
Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Agreed, but not exactly a long, flowing coat.ezzy333 wrote:Sounds like a GWP to me
Ezzy
- Ruffshooter
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Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Long flowing hair Both Musties.
Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Agreed x2Neil wrote:Agreed, but not exactly a long, flowing coat.ezzy333 wrote:Sounds like a GWP to me
Ezzy
Trekmoor wrote: The drawback to a Munstie or a Langhaar might be their hunting range, the better dogs do tend to range out a bit. The Munstie has a mottled coat which you say you do not like ?
Bill T.
I LOVE the way those Large Munsterlanders look, but my wife would take some convincing. I could always tell her the color will "grow out" and by the time she catches on she'll be in love with the dog anyways...
I'd like to hear more about their long-ranging tendency. Is this a trainable characteristic?
Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Large Munsterlander ....for sure
- SpinoneIllinois
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Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Spinone!
Also maybe a DD, a Griff or GWP. Go check out the VersatileDogs forum.
Also maybe a DD, a Griff or GWP. Go check out the VersatileDogs forum.
Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
And I thought the last 3 were the same thing. I am out of my knowledge zone.SpinoneIllinois wrote:Spinone!
Also maybe a DD, a Griff or GWP. Go check out the VersatileDogs forum.
Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
DD is basically german registered GWP, though I think lives have been lost arguing whether there's a difference or not :roll: Kinda like the DK vs GSP discussion. The griff was used as part of the mix to develop the DD/GWP. Seems to me any of the versatiles mentioned would meet the OP's needs, other than perhaps the need for a "pretty" dog. Afterall, the wirehaired versatiles are generally affectionately referred to a "ugly dogs."Neil wrote:And I thought the last 3 were the same thing. I am out of my knowledge zone.SpinoneIllinois wrote:Spinone!
Also maybe a DD, a Griff or GWP. Go check out the VersatileDogs forum.
Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
I think a DL or a male Small Munsterlander will fit your needs. The few Large Munsters I have not been impressed with.
But, I would stick to the German variety of the Longhaar(DL) and pretty similar to the same with the Small Munsterlander. I have 3 Small Munsterlanders. 2 of which I imported from Germany.
I use mine to track deer, ( I have video), hunt ducks( Opener is this weekend! YAY!), upland hunt and warm my feet. They are natural retrievers, hard working dogs that can settle nicely in the home.They are very clean and groom themselves constantly.
I am not a breeder and I am not pushing pups. Just stating the facts. You will hear people say that some lines dont have a strong point. But dont confuse that with them NOT pointing. You just may not get that pretty setter look that some like. But, you will have birds in the bag and that is a fact.
As with any breed do your research as there are dud breeders in every breed. Good luck
But, I would stick to the German variety of the Longhaar(DL) and pretty similar to the same with the Small Munsterlander. I have 3 Small Munsterlanders. 2 of which I imported from Germany.
I use mine to track deer, ( I have video), hunt ducks( Opener is this weekend! YAY!), upland hunt and warm my feet. They are natural retrievers, hard working dogs that can settle nicely in the home.They are very clean and groom themselves constantly.
I am not a breeder and I am not pushing pups. Just stating the facts. You will hear people say that some lines dont have a strong point. But dont confuse that with them NOT pointing. You just may not get that pretty setter look that some like. But, you will have birds in the bag and that is a fact.
As with any breed do your research as there are dud breeders in every breed. Good luck
- gotpointers
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Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
The German testing requires a kill also for their sharpness requirements. I've lost an English pointer to a very sharp DL.
- Cora's Shadow
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Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
I chose to go with a Deutsch Langhaar because I wanted a great looking dog that could do it all well. Our dogs have excelled in the German testing system, NAVHDA, and in real hunting situations in many states around the county. Just last week, VC Bianca vom Coraschatten passed the NAVHDA Invitational at the age of 23 months (making her the second youngest dog of any breed to pass the test). Please shoot me a PM if you have any questions or if you would like to meet some DLs in person to decide if they are the right breed for you.Any suggestions? My front runners right now are Langhaars, Red Setters, and on the retrieving side Golden Retrievers
I just tried to share some photos but PhotoBucket appears to be down. But if you visit our website (http://www.coraschatten.com), you can find several photos of our dogs with upland game, waterfowl, and furred game. Click on each individual dog's name under "Meet Our Langhaars" to view a slide show of each dog with different types of game that they have hunted.
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Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
gotpointers wrote:The German testing requires a kill also for their sharpness requirements. I've lost an English pointer to a very sharp DL.
I dont know the DL you are talking about, but I can tell you with 100% confidence that the requirement of a sharpness test and the killing of your dog have nothing to do with each other. The DL killed your dog because it had a temperament issue and was dog aggressive.
- gotpointers
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Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Munster wrote:gotpointers wrote:The German testing requires a kill also for their sharpness requirements. I've lost an English pointer to a very sharp DL.
I dont know the DL you are talking about, but I can tell you with 100% confidence that the requirement of a sharpness test and the killing of your dog have nothing to do with each other. The DL killed your dog because it had a temperament issue and was dog aggressive.
I assure you it wasn't an isolated incident.
- UglyD
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Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
The " house " nature of the beast and the almost non-existent shedding- and the reasone you have- sold me on the PP's.
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Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Despite the fact all those wire haired dogs look alike, they have very little if any genetic relation. The closest you can get is the cross-breeding of Spinone & GWP back and forth after WWII.Neil wrote:And I thought the last 3 were the same thing. I am out of my knowledge zone.SpinoneIllinois wrote:Spinone!
Also maybe a DD, a Griff or GWP. Go check out the VersatileDogs forum.
If you are looking for a close hunting dog with an absolute cannon of a nose and for fur and water a Spinone would be a good choice especially if you have kids or other animals. No dog in the versatile class can swim and water retriever as well as a Spinone, on average of course. They are slow and very messy but they can do a lot. By the way getting a dog from Italy is quite easy if you go that route. The breeder below in Italy has some really nice dogs. There is guy named Dan Spence in Ohio that has 2 VC's and breeds a bit.
http://www.spinonebuonvento.com/
GWP & DD's around kids is not always a great idea.
Last edited by MonsterDad on Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:30 am, edited 4 times in total.
Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
This is easy. Get a setter, a lab and a new wife!
Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Poor breeding is to blame here. I will leave it at that.gotpointers wrote:Munster wrote:gotpointers wrote:The German testing requires a kill also for their sharpness requirements. I've lost an English pointer to a very sharp DL.
I dont know the DL you are talking about, but I can tell you with 100% confidence that the requirement of a sharpness test and the killing of your dog have nothing to do with each other. The DL killed your dog because it had a temperament issue and was dog aggressive.
I assure you it wasn't an isolated incident.
If what you are trying to spout were true statements, then EVERY DL, DD, DK and SM would not be able to hunt with other dogs because the other dogs would be killed.
I am not going to go into details about what the Hardness test is about. But most times, such as this one it is being very wrongfully represented. It was simply a way to gauge if a dog had the courage to push challenging situation and complete a task. Example, is your dog going to run through the narliest set of brammels and burs and retrieve that downed bird no matter how much it hurt or how difficult it was.
That is all I am going to say about the topic. For those that are interested, join a club, own one of these dogs and discover the truths for yourself.
BTW, as a side note, because a dog is willing to kill a furred animal while hunting doesnt make it a dog killer. How many on here have a hunting dog that has dispatched a furred game animal and yet has not ever attacked another dog? I have 3.
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Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
I would go with a Wirehair/Shorthair..........JMO
- gotpointers
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Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Munster
So you're calling me a liar but won't elaborate on the testing requirements. I agree 100% on the bad breeding but they're bred to pass the requirement set in place. A shorthair treeing a squirrel is a long ways away from a DL killing a fox on command for a judge to see. With testing requirements like that how safe is a
a yapping pup? I've had dogs get into fights for submission but it's way different than an intent to kill. And intent and results of death are what I witnessed and have had reported to me more than once out of the dl. And not just the ones I bought from separate individuals.
So you're calling me a liar but won't elaborate on the testing requirements. I agree 100% on the bad breeding but they're bred to pass the requirement set in place. A shorthair treeing a squirrel is a long ways away from a DL killing a fox on command for a judge to see. With testing requirements like that how safe is a
a yapping pup? I've had dogs get into fights for submission but it's way different than an intent to kill. And intent and results of death are what I witnessed and have had reported to me more than once out of the dl. And not just the ones I bought from separate individuals.
Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Apparently you THINK you know so much about it that I dont need to elaborate Sir. But, I do know your story and hope that the OP doesnt put much weight in what you are saying.gotpointers wrote:Munster
So you're calling me a liar but won't elaborate on the testing requirements. I agree 100% on the bad breeding but they're bred to pass the requirement set in place. A shorthair treeing a squirrel is a long ways away from a DL killing a fox on command for a judge to see. With testing requirements like that how safe is a
a yapping pup? I've had dogs get into fights for submission but it's way different than an intent to kill. And intent and results of death are what I witnessed and have had reported to me more than once out of the dl. And not just the ones I bought from separate individuals.
In respect to the OP I will not post further. If the OP would like facts, they will know where to find them now.
Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Do they use live fox? Is that a regional thing? I've only seen coons used here and heard about cats, but I don't personally participate in that system, since I have AKC dogs. The test fox I know of, are long deceased and used for drags, and fox-in-the-box (sorry if that's not the correct terminology).gotpointers wrote:A shorthair treeing a squirrel is a long ways away from a DL killing a fox on command for a judge to see. With testing requirements like that how safe is a
a yapping pup?
- gotpointers
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Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Fox in a box is going on in Germany currently. I'm not pushing anyone away from a longhair but I encourage them to talk to the person who's been raising them here since the 70s and raises birddogs.wems2371 wrote:Do they use live fox? Is that a regional thing? I've only seen coons used here and heard about cats, but I don't personally participate in that system, since I have AKC dogs. The test fox I know of, are long deceased and used for drags, and fox-in-the-box (sorry if that's not the correct terminology).gotpointers wrote:A shorthair treeing a squirrel is a long ways away from a DL killing a fox on command for a judge to see. With testing requirements like that how safe is a
a yapping pup?
Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Hey, I think we have answered the op's question as best we could, but with his indulgence I would like to know more about the fox/cat killing test. How would trap enough foxes to run such a test? Now cats are readily available, and perhaps a good use for the feral ones. The cat sitting in my lap just woke up long enough to give me a dirty look, I excempt house cats.
- gotpointers
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Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Neil I would think the Germans must have some sort of fox farm. Afterall we Americans have the moonlight bunny ranch in Nevada
Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Neil wrote:Hey, I think we have answered the op's question as best we could, but with his indulgence I would like to know more about the fox/cat killing test. How would trap enough foxes to run such a test? Now cats are readily available, and perhaps a good use for the feral ones. The cat sitting in my lap just woke up long enough to give me a dirty look, I excempt house cats.
Neil, the poor lad hasnt a clue what he is talking about. Fox farms for hrdness tests! Ha HA HA HAH Geez! :roll:
- gotpointers
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Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
I called it sharpness you called it hardness. The Fox farm statement is good old American humour. Judging from your pictures I knew the moonlight bunny ranch would go right over your head.
Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Hey Zachw,
Are there any clubs in the area featuring the dogs you are looking to go into? It could give some idea of what is out there. This thread is starting to become a pissing match.
Are there any clubs in the area featuring the dogs you are looking to go into? It could give some idea of what is out there. This thread is starting to become a pissing match.
- gotpointers
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Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
I wish you would not have called me a liar earlier and I would have left it alone Munster. I now know why the sensitivity came up with you. http://www.huntingmunsterlanders.com/Photo-Gallery.html if that's what floats your boat great! This is America!! But don't deny that the fact that an unknowing buyer's wife's cat or lapdog may suffer the same fate as the fox in your own dogs picture. I hate varmits more than 99% of the population I think. But I'd expect a heads up on the possible side effects when considering a purchase.
Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Check out the Wachtelhund or as its been nicknamed here in America the "German spaniel." it will literally hunt everything that would want it to, longhaired, and generally the males should be over 50lbs. Really a cool dog, that hasn't quote caught on in popularity yet.
Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
What does living in America have anything to do with anything. What, we are only allowed to hunt birds here? :roll:gotpointers wrote:I wish you would not have called me a liar earlier and I would have left it alone Munster. I now know why the sensitivity came up with you. http://www.huntingmunsterlanders.com/Photo-Gallery.html if that's what floats your boat great! This is America!! But don't deny that the fact that an unknowing buyer's wife's cat or lapdog may suffer the same fate as the fox in your own dogs picture. I hate varmits more than 99% of the population I think. But I'd expect a heads up on the possible side effects when considering a purchase.
Properly bred German dogs are not. Once again you miss the point because of ignorance. Any hunting breed can be sharp on game. But you chose to focus in on the German breed??? Interesting.
I hope you enjoy the pictures you posted from my site. Now you know what working dogs can do.
You need to stop making general statements, especially when you havent a clue what you are talking about.
Thats it for me. If you think you need some more education on the matter, you can contact me by PM.
Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
This thread got a little weird, but back to business.Escopeton wrote:Hey Zachw,
Are there any clubs in the area featuring the dogs you are looking to go into? It could give some idea of what is out there. This thread is starting to become a pissing match.
Yeah that's what I need to do. Anyone have any LM breeder suggestions here in Texas?
- Cora's Shadow
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Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Hi Zach,
One of our puppy buyers in Texas also has a couple of older Large Munsterlanders. I'm sure he would be happy to talk to you about the differences between the breeds and make recommendations on LM breeders if you decide to go that route. Also, it looks like you are in Dallas. One of our pups is right there in Dallas too. We can put you in touch with both folks when we touch base later today.
Have fun with your search! It is really fun to research dogs and meet as many as you can before making a final decision.
One of our puppy buyers in Texas also has a couple of older Large Munsterlanders. I'm sure he would be happy to talk to you about the differences between the breeds and make recommendations on LM breeders if you decide to go that route. Also, it looks like you are in Dallas. One of our pups is right there in Dallas too. We can put you in touch with both folks when we touch base later today.
Have fun with your search! It is really fun to research dogs and meet as many as you can before making a final decision.
Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
Munster just remember opinions are like assholes everyone has one and they all stink . If it is not a pointer your friend gotpointers will never have anything good to say but the negative's of the subject breed and their owners will be posted for all to see(because they are all the same).
- gotpointers
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Re: What new dog for me? Langhaar, Setter, Golden?
For the first part it sounds like you have an experienced nose so ill take your word for it. Second I currently own pointers, setters, labradors and a German shorthair. I've worked with Brittanys and hunted with wirehairs. I've owned a Deutsche langhaar and one generation out German longhairs. I've said it here many times before I don't care if it's pink and green and only has three legs if it finds the most birds that's the dog I want. But I will not tolerate a dog that kills other dogs.whatsnext wrote:Munster just remember opinions are like assholes everyone has one and they all stink . If it is not a pointer your friend gotpointers will never have anything good to say but the negative's of the subject breed and their owners will be posted for all to see(because they are all the same).