Thinking about/ looking for Dual type setter

[GrouseGunner89]

Hello,

I am 24, and I live in Ohio. I do a good amount of grouse and woodcock hunting in PA and Michigan. I also presever hunt for pheasants. I like a very close working dog, who is good in the home. I hunt with a lot of older gentleman, so a close worker is very important to me. I have a wirehair right now, but hes's turning 9 and will be past his prime shortly. I am looking for a good breeder for a male between 58-65 pounds. I would also love a started dog if that would be an option. My cousin has a Decoverly dog that I have hunted with that I really like. Some other kennels I have heard of are Flanigan Springs Kennel in KY and also Setters West in Lewiston Montana.

If you have any other ideas for breeders of Old hemlock/Ryman style setters please let me know.

I am not trying to start a war here.. I know there are unfortunately some very heated arguments on this topic from my google searching.. Please don't bring any of that here. I simply want to find a dual setter with good hunting ability.

[cjhills]

The older I get the bigger I want my dogs to hunt. I just hobble along on the trail until the dog points and go flush the bird and hopefully shoot it. CJ

[DonF]

Just the opposite for me. Older I get, the closer I want them. Old knees don't work well enough to keep up with a big runner. On the other side, Squirt is pulling in well but Bodie is not happy unless he's balls to the wall gone. Still a work in progress though. Hey, he's only six!

Wish I knew how to help you out OP, not a clue. Mine are Tekoa Mt and smith breeding, they are exactly what you don't want. You might go to a pointing dog test and look at the setter's. Most of them around here are show people and some of their dogs really do hunt at short range. You're gonna hate the long hair though. I talked with a lady in Kansas that hunts show Irish Setter's. Asked her what she does about burr's and tangles. She said it takes about four hours to clean them out. Mine have hair that will collect stuff too. Generally I keep them trimmed up to avoid most of that. A5 Oster is your friend!

[Mountaineer]

October Setters and, of course, Old Hemlock.

There are a number of others...be mindful of health checks and good salesmen.

[Moulders Farm]

I hunt & breed llewellin setters at age 70 I wont my dogs to hunt hard but stay close hear in Mo. we do not have very many wild birds so I mostly hunt pen raised birds . my llewellins make great family dogs as well as hard hunting dogs . Hammer & Dora have just mated so I will have puppys aroun=d last Nov be ready for new home between Christmas & Valentines day go to http://www.llewellinsetter-mouldersfarm.info call or pm me

[Roccus]

Love Ryman setters. They were made for grouse and woodcock. Got too old to chase after Springer Spaniels and got my first Ryman 3 years ago. Should have done it ten years ago. Got my boy from Lynn Dee Galey of Firelight Setters. Formerly of Vermont and Maine, she has recently moved to Kansas and may be having another litter if they ever get back from their Montana hunt. She's a small operation and each puppy gets individual attention. Wonderful house dogs and my Parker has all the hunting desire you could ask for. Highly recommended.

[BigJake]

Hi gg89,
There are a lot of ryman type setter breeders out there. I bought a male pup from setter hills about a year ago, and while he is a very loving dog, I would not get another one. I have owned Springers, English pointers, and now a ryman setter. I can only base my experience off of the dogs I own or have owned. Now remember my ryman is not quite a year old yet, and 80% of my hunting is for ruffed grouse. Plus I am over twice your age and really wanted a nice easy dog to hunt behind. With that being said, my favorite dog to hunt behind was my English pointer. What I have noticed with the ryman setter, a lot slower to develop,they are like a child and would like to goof around more and just like to have fun, so keep training fun and short. Very low heat tolerance, the warmer it is the slower they go. I would not feel comfortable hunting my dog hard in anything much over 60 degrees. Just remember when people say a ryman setter matures slower, believe them. What I like about my setter, very friendly, they like to be with there people, they definitely need to be in the house with you, they would not make a good kennel dog. Very entertaining dog, decent at retrieving, and likes the water. If I were you and grouse is my main quarry, I would look for another breed, go with a breeder that breeds for grouse hunting. Look at clear cut kennels, they raise Gordon setters just for grouse hunting. There are a lot of good dogs bred for grouse hunting, do your homework, ask a lot of questions and see as many dogs in the field as you can. Don't get me wrong I love my dog, but when comparing him to other breeds, they fall short. Can a ryman hunt, yes, will he be as intense as other breeds no, will he develop as fast as some other breeds, no. What he will be is a loyal companion gun dog that is slow in development, who loves attention and will get you some birds every now and then. Just remember this is just my opinion and won't reflect how other ryman owners feel. I will leave you with one thought, why are the big kennels like decoverly and October setters bringing lywellin blood into there breeding programs, to help with the intensity.

[Welder05]

Go to bearcat kennels or berg brothers and get you a red setter and you won't ever get anything iny else! Promise! Best grouse dogs I ever owned.

[birddog98]

ryman setters all the way.... find a good breeder that does ofa for hips etc.....

[Lyco Setter]

This is all mostly rhetorical, don't mind me there's no right or wrong. But I do not get the "close" range ideology when it comes to pointing dogs. If the dog is within gun range or just a tad further, why not just get a springer spaniel and get a specialist at that game? I can't tell you how many dual-lovin' old timers blast the field and Llew types for being runoffs and hard to handle (and admittedly say they've never hunted behind one), this is quite simply not the case in field line cover dogs. Most lines hunt the pocket pretty well (in your 10 & 12 o'clock 75-150 yards out, it's almost really 9 to 3) Ryman himself outcrossed to National Champion Sport's Peerless Pride on more than one occasion and that was not a dog anyone would consider close working... it gave his bloodlines a needed shot in the butt to get out from under his feet and get some bird finding progeny. Something they could really use another shot of from those I seen of late. Do yourself a favor and watch some field line dogs work before you pull the trigger... Kelly Shepard should be close to you, doesn't seem to have much of a website but has nice dogs: http://www.coverdogs.com/rainbowkennels_rev1.htm

[Wilber]

I am on my third Ryman type setter. I grew up with Labs and have owned a Chesapeake and a Curly Coat Retriever. My first Ryman was loyal, worked close, great nose and prey drive. When we shot clays, she'd retrieve the ones we missed. The second Ryman had tremendous prey drive, was pointing anything that moved at 9 weeks of age. Retrieved everything except birds for some reason, but would stand on them until I came up. She was not particularly close working, but generally stayed within 100 yds or so. My current Ryman came from Setter Hills by way of Round River Setters. Both sire and dame are Setter Hills dogs. She has a wonderful temperament. All the Ryman's I've owned have had a wonderful temperament and have been great family dogs. My current pup is only 3.5 months old. She retrieves like a Lab even in the water (at 3.5 months!). She is still mostly under foot on walks and has yet to show much prey drive, let alone pointing ability. On the plus side, she goes wild over the frozen pheasant wings I have her retrieving. I am confident she will come around.

I am a big fan of Rymans. Who really hunts from horseback after all? I hunt mostly pheasant and mountain grouse in Colorado, which is wide open terrain or dense wooded hillsides. The dogs have done well at both. I think the primary benefit of Rymans is temperament. They are great in the house and with people, other dogs, kids, etc. But my buddy's German Wire Hair is too. I think it's a lot about how you condition them.

Anyway, check out Round River Setters if you're still looking for a Ryman. I think they still have a litter available. They were great to work with, and I am very happy with our pup. You can find them at: http://www.roundriversetters.com/

Good luck and have fun.

Wilber

[birddog1968]

Who really hunts from horseback after all?

Wilber

What does this really mean?

[BigJake]

Hey Wilber, are the parents of your pup, paige and Remington, if so, I have met both of them when Jan from setter hills owned them. Very nice dogs, that is one of the minuses I find with the Ryman type dogs is there slow development. They are very affectionate dogs, but so was my English pointer. It is a misconception that you need a horse to hunt with dogs like an English pointer, my pointer was the very best grouse dog I ever had, and he started hunting wild birds at 16 week old. One reason I decided to get a ryman was the notion they made good retrievers, while I have a dog that is finally good at retrieving, now I need one that wants to hunt:) Good luck with your pup, Scott and Shelley from round River are great people, I have talked to Scott, they really love there dogs.

[Wilber]

Hi BigJake. Yes, my pup is out of Paige and Remington. I am hoping she will not be as slow to develop as you describe - Opening Day is three weeks away! As my high school coach used to say,"It may be a building year." I'm going to get her out with wild birds next week and see how she does.

Wilber