Sickle Tail
- ROTTnBRITT
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Sickle Tail
My Setter pup had a really nice straight tail when on point up until about 6 or 7 months. I have been noticing lately that his tail is curving over his back more. (9 months old now)
Is there anyway to fix this? Will it become straight again over time or get worse? What factors can cause this?
I was hoping to run him in field trials in the spring, but if he has an ugly tail.......
Is there anyway to fix this? Will it become straight again over time or get worse? What factors can cause this?
I was hoping to run him in field trials in the spring, but if he has an ugly tail.......
Re: Sickle Tail
Post a photo if possible. What type of trials are you planning on competing in?
- PntrRookie
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Re: Sickle Tail
Not really...them are da genetics...ROTTnBRITT wrote:Is there anyway to fix this?
At 9 months old that tail could be all over the place. Especially if it started good, now a bit sickle, next it could be 10 oclock. The muscles are being developed (almost done) but unless it is touching his back, I would give it time. I bought a pup sight unseen from GA (only a picture of him "stacked") and right off the airplane he had a sickly sickle tail...gave him 6-9 months and sold him as a pet. More than likely it will not get better, but you have youth and a "little" history on your side. That being said how bad is it? Does it get worse the longer he stands? I have seem some bad tails win trials...
Re: Sickle Tail
Trials are a performance game, my hound does not have a 12 o clock tail but he seems to get in the winners circle just fine!
- ROTTnBRITT
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Re: Sickle Tail
Coverdog
Point at 4 mo old
Point at 7 mo old
Point from today (9 mo.)
Sorry for the large size. Trying to do this on my phone.
Point at 4 mo old
Point at 7 mo old
Point from today (9 mo.)
Sorry for the large size. Trying to do this on my phone.
- kninebirddog
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Re: Sickle Tail
Bleach some spots and dock the tail, problem solved.
As stated muscles are developing I wouldn't worry about it, if you go messing with the tail to much you will more then likely create other problems
As stated muscles are developing I wouldn't worry about it, if you go messing with the tail to much you will more then likely create other problems
- PntrRookie
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Re: Sickle Tail
Wouldn't worry about it. Your dog is put together well... and especially in the grouse woods, the tail is hidden a lot I have seen a LOT of dogs win with worse tails than that and I wouldn't think twice about placing that dog - he is a looker! FWIW I wouldn't call that a sickle tail, he is just "pulling it".
- ROTTnBRITT
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Re: Sickle Tail
Haha, There's an idea.
I guess that good to hear.
I havent messed with it at all. So hopefully things straighten out
I guess that good to hear.
I havent messed with it at all. So hopefully things straighten out
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Re: Sickle Tail
For starters,that tail is not in the least bit bad,when that dog gets to working and burns off some steam and gets a little energy out of it I'd bet it's straight as and arrow.Second thing is too much emphasis is put on tails,dogs don't use their buttholes to find birds,they use brains and noses.Third thing is watch a National Championship video and look at their tails,80% of them are kinda sorry looking (Shell creek coin comes to mind),lots of 10 oclockers and even some level tailed dogs you'll see.If you want to see an example of a sickle tail look for images of "Go For Broke" or a dog named "Eye Candy".I have a son of HOF Tomoka that has the worst tail I've ever seen,it makes a complete circle like an elkhound.If I'm judging I pay attention to the front end not the back end,I've seen more than one perfect tailed dog that was horrible at birdwork and ground application.All fine and dandy to run the horsepath and maybe find a bird or two and look pretty doing it but it's far better to see a dog use its head to naturally gravitate to real estate that would hold birds,search for them there and find them there and then point them with a less than desireable tail.
Re: Sickle Tail
D*mn that's a good looking pup! Where did you get it?
Re: Sickle Tail
Wildweeds wrote:For starters,that tail is not in the least bit bad,when that dog gets to working and burns off some steam and gets a little energy out of it I'd bet it's straight as and arrow.Second thing is too much emphasis is put on tails,dogs don't use their buttholes to find birds,they use brains and noses.Third thing is watch a National Championship video and look at their tails,80% of them are kinda sorry looking (Shell creek coin comes to mind),lots of 10 oclockers and even some level tailed dogs you'll see.If you want to see an example of a sickle tail look for images of "Go For Broke" or a dog named "Eye Candy".I have a son of HOF Tomoka that has the worst tail I've ever seen,it makes a complete circle like an elkhound.If I'm judging I pay attention to the front end not the back end,I've seen more than one perfect tailed dog that was horrible at birdwork and ground application.All fine and dandy to run the horsepath and maybe find a bird or two and look pretty doing it but it's far better to see a dog use its head to naturally gravitate to real estate that would hold birds,search for them there and find them there and then point them with a less than desireable tail.
I was thinking the same. Tails re over rated. If you dont want the pup cuz of the tail. I ll take em. I bet he is a bird finding machine.
Re: Sickle Tail
I don't think tails are over rated. They add to the eye appeal. I don't like sickle tails at all. Not do I like tails much below 11 0'clock and as bad as a sickle tail for me is the poker straight tail. I do like a tail that come's out about 10 o'clock and arches up to 12 o'clock. Not a one of them make a dog any better or any worse a hunter.
For me, this is an ideal tail. As a puppy the tail was sickled.
For me, this is an ideal tail. As a puppy the tail was sickled.
- ROTTnBRITT
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Re: Sickle Tail
Haha. Ill keep him.
You read a lot about tails. God to hear I'm not out of the game because of it.
He came from Roger Boser. He is out of Breakstone x Breese (female from Joe Edwards)
You read a lot about tails. God to hear I'm not out of the game because of it.
He came from Roger Boser. He is out of Breakstone x Breese (female from Joe Edwards)
Re: Sickle Tail
No problem unless your competing. One of my setters runs with a poker straight tail - no movement at all. Some judges marked her down for that. I figure she is just saving energy.
Re: Sickle Tail
Beautiful pup. I wouldn't worry about it until the check cord comes off and he's broke. It could easily come back to high noon. Even as is he looks good.
- ROTTnBRITT
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Re: Sickle Tail
That is the plan for this pup.Sharon wrote:No problem unless your competing
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Re: Sickle Tail
If you don't like that pup's tail, give him to me. I'll let him hunt with his nose.
- ROTTnBRITT
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Re: Sickle Tail
Well I'm glad everyone likes him.
I will have to say he is the best dog I've owned thus far. Perect in the house. Little stubborn in the field but he is still young and we can work that out.
I will have to say he is the best dog I've owned thus far. Perect in the house. Little stubborn in the field but he is still young and we can work that out.
- hi-tailyn
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Re: Sickle Tail
He's a good looking dog. Nothing wrong with him.
There are several vets that specialize in fixing tails. They can bring it up to 12 o'clock, or take out the sickle out of the tail. It is just a matter of cutting the right strings.
The long tail guys do it more than most people know.
There are several vets that specialize in fixing tails. They can bring it up to 12 o'clock, or take out the sickle out of the tail. It is just a matter of cutting the right strings.
The long tail guys do it more than most people know.
Re: Sickle Tail
Even if you are competing, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that dogs tail......
Re: Sickle Tail
A guy I sold a pup to emailed me and said "unfortunalty she has a sickle tail" I offered to buy that pup back but have heard no word. Is it such a big deal? In trialing and shows? I watch my dogs all 7 of them and see this at times, usally when they are playing around, not on solid point over a bird. or are folks just internet pros and extra picky? Never had this issue before and I am thinking it isnt an issue at all.
- PntrRookie
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Re: Sickle Tail
It becomes a big deal when you are judging and taking into consideration the ENTIRE package. More times than not, it does not get that far but...when you are splitting hairs, yes it matters. As does the opposite...a low flat tail. Especially when you consider we trial to "better the breed" and look for breeding "stock". Yes I probably would not breed to a sickle tail (or flat tailed) dog if I had other options. yes it is a big deal.markj wrote:...Is it such a big deal? In trialing...?
Re: Sickle Tail
DittoPntrRookie wrote: FWIW I wouldn't call that a sickle tail, he is just "pulling it".
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Re: Sickle Tail
Straight
Slightly bowed
more bow
Little more sickle
bad sickle
back to straight
Slightly bowed
more bow
Little more sickle
bad sickle
back to straight
Re: Sickle Tail
I see a difference in my pups tail if shes pointing birds
or pointing bugs in the backyard
or pointing bugs in the backyard
Re: Sickle Tail
IF a judge is just looking at tails we could save a lot of effort and just throw a quail in a bush and walk the dog up to it!!
A Good judge will look at the entire effort of the dog.
That said your dog looks very nice and I wouldn't hesitate for a second to run him myself looking like that.
A Good judge will look at the entire effort of the dog.
That said your dog looks very nice and I wouldn't hesitate for a second to run him myself looking like that.
Re: Sickle Tail
Was and is the norm for a shorthair. Used to be anyways..... look at all the pretty pics in my old shorthair book.....a low flat tail.
If the tail is the most important piece of the puzzle, well I just dont know how to put it lol I prefer teh other end to work best for me..
- PntrRookie
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Re: Sickle Tail
Agreed, don't think anyone said it was "...the most IMPORTANT piece" I just like the entire package!markj wrote:If the tail is the most important piece of the puzzle, well I just dont know how to put it lol I prefer teh other end to work best for me..
- Vonzeppelinkennels
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Re: Sickle Tail
Yep I want the performance & the looks all in one.Doesn't cost anymore! But there is certainly nothing wrong with that dog.
Look at my avatar dog when he was a pup he pulled his tail forward,not anymore!
Look at my avatar dog when he was a pup he pulled his tail forward,not anymore!
Re: Sickle Tail
I have yet to hear tails come up in any conversation at a trial I have attended as far being the difference in someone winning or not winning. Usually race, finishing power and bird finding talked about significantly more than tails. My hound has maybe a 10-11 clock tail and has absolutely zero problem placing in CH stakes. It's a performance competition, not a beauty pageant.
- Vonzeppelinkennels
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Re: Sickle Tail
Josh I agree it's a performance trial but no harm in having high style to go with the performance,you can have both.
People say that the tail don't point birds & that is very true but I will ask this question what if we went in the other direction with the tail,suppose you had a dog that points with their tail between their legs or glued to their butt?
Would you own or want that dog & could you win trials with that dog remember it's the tail not the nose.
People say that the tail don't point birds & that is very true but I will ask this question what if we went in the other direction with the tail,suppose you had a dog that points with their tail between their legs or glued to their butt?
Would you own or want that dog & could you win trials with that dog remember it's the tail not the nose.
Re: Sickle Tail
Little article in The Field this week regarding tails and lumbosacral issues by Pat McInteer. I will post the link but might need to be a subscriber to read.
http://americanfield.villagesoup.com/p/ ... re/1078994
http://americanfield.villagesoup.com/p/ ... re/1078994
- Vonzeppelinkennels
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Re: Sickle Tail
I've read it!Do you think that is going to change anything? My Dr says I'm to fat!
There was a much larger article about the same subject a mo or so back in the Field by another vet a believe.
There was a much larger article about the same subject a mo or so back in the Field by another vet a believe.
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Re: Sickle Tail
Doc should recognize the orange and white dog I've got posted,pretty sure he's seen her a time or two.
Re: Sickle Tail
Is that George? Thought we were in the money with him at Nat Chukar SD last spring - got shagged man!!Doc should recognize the orange and white dog I've got posted,pretty sure he's seen her a time or two.
Re: Sickle Tail
Ted I agree that a dog should have some style, obviously a tail between the legs no intensity etc is not something I want in a hound. But a lot of posters seem to insinuate that you will never be competitive, or it will be harder to be competitive with a dog that does not have a 12 oclock tail. Which is untrue. Cause I have seen it happen with my own hound. No one in camp was talking about tails or style in camp after each brace. We were talking about finds, application and race and finishing strong. Tails were never mentioned.
Woody
Same dog
Woodster
Same dog
Regardless of his lack of a 12 o clock tail he is one helluva bird dog.
Crazy thing this is his daughter!
Woody
Same dog
Woodster
Same dog
Regardless of his lack of a 12 o clock tail he is one helluva bird dog.
Crazy thing this is his daughter!
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Re: Sickle Tail
Better birddog IMO than george Doc, Southwind Jetset Drifter or "Drift"
DGFavor wrote:Is that George? Thought we were in the money with him at Nat Chukar SD last spring - got shagged man!!Doc should recognize the orange and white dog I've got posted,pretty sure he's seen her a time or two.
Re: Sickle Tail
This whole time I thought you were Paul!Wildweeds wrote:Better birddog IMO than george Doc, Southwind Jetset Drifter or "Drift"DGFavor wrote:Is that George? Thought we were in the money with him at Nat Chukar SD last spring - got shagged man!!Doc should recognize the orange and white dog I've got posted,pretty sure he's seen her a time or two.
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Re: Sickle Tail
Might not be as educated as Paul but I've got some good stories about him,which would really make you wonder about the education.
DGFavor wrote:This whole time I thought you were Paul!DGFavor wrote:
- Red Delicious
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Re: Sickle Tail
Nice breeding hard to go wrong with Roger and Joe.ROTTnBRITT wrote: He came from Roger Boser. He is out of Breakstone x Breese (female from Joe Edwards)
Craig O.
- ROTTnBRITT
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Re: Sickle Tail
Yeh. Like I said he is a great dog. Just wondered about his tail.Red Delicious wrote:Nice breeding hard to go wrong with Roger and Joe.ROTTnBRITT wrote: He came from Roger Boser. He is out of Breakstone x Breese (female from Joe Edwards)
Craig O.
I see both his sire and dam placed at the York Pointer and Setter Club Trial last month.
Re: Sickle Tail
Breakstone is an outstanding animal, I have been beaten by him many time! He really did a fabulous job at the Lehigh Valley Trial this fall winning 1st in the Amateur Shooting dog knocking my dog down to second! I have seen the mom as well and she is also a nice animal. I am sure your puppy will do and I hope you bring it around some local horse back trials!ROTTnBRITT wrote:Yeh. Like I said he is a great dog. Just wondered about his tail.Red Delicious wrote:Nice breeding hard to go wrong with Roger and Joe.ROTTnBRITT wrote: He came from Roger Boser. He is out of Breakstone x Breese (female from Joe Edwards)
Craig O.
I see both his sire and dam placed at the York Pointer and Setter Club Trial last month.
- ROTTnBRITT
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Re: Sickle Tail
I have thought about taking him down to Docs for the spring trial and running him in the puppy stakes. He hasnt been around horses since he left Docs in April. Not sure how that would go and I don't want to get anyone hurt. There are a few horse barns around. I should go and see if they will let me come out with my dog.Breakstone is an outstanding animal, I have been beaten by him many time! He really did a fabulous job at the Lehigh Valley Trial this fall winning 1st in the Amateur Shooting dog knocking my dog down to second! I have seen the mom as well and she is also a nice animal. I am sure your puppy will do and I hope you bring it around some local horse back trials!
I had a fun time a Docs when I picked him up. But I can't afford to play the games with horses involved at this point in my life.
I started my 5 yr old daughter with horseback lessons this summer. She loves it. So maybe in the future well will have a horse or two
Re: Sickle Tail
That's a sharp looking red setter,whats the breeding on it?......vern