How important is it?

honeyrun · Post by **honeyrun** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:54 am

When looking for a pup, how important is health testing to you? What health tests do you want the sire and dam of the pup to have? (Minimum and/or all) When looking back in the pedigree, what health clearances do you want to see?

Do you think the current trend in health clearances is going overboard or not?

Do you try to keep informed as to what lines within your breed tend to carry certain health issues?

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:00 am

In Brits the only thing I need to see is the OFA's of at least the parents and further back if possible. Until we identify a genetic problem that is rather common I see other tests as unnecessary. I understand that there are other problems in some breeds and if they are common then tests for those would be good.

Ezzy

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:05 am

Cindy; I personally feel they're going overboard now but you are more qualified than I to say that. Sure, we want to know there are no hip problems within the lines and no eye problems. Other than that, my main concern is how the lines have fared in competetion and what the sire and dam are like. Then again, that's me, and I'm probably out of date and old fashioned.

BOSUN · Post by **BOSUN** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:07 am

For my Vizslas I get eyes, heart, hips, elbows, and thyroid.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:08 am

I do every health test I can think of before breeding, and am always looking for new ones. OFA or Penn Hip is automatic. Also the Michigan Thyroid Test which is said to detect the propensity to develop hypothryroidism in the future. Have seen hypothyroid dogs and had them years ago, not that big a deal but don't want to pass it forward. Brucellosis is also automatic for the health of the bitch and sire. I get a hidden coat color test done to make sure none of the rumored "pointer in the woodpile" is there.

The OFA elbow test I have not had done. I am not against it, I have just not seen elbows ever that were a problem in trial dogs, so wonder about the need. Shoulders yes, can be a problem in older dogs, but to my knowledge there is no shoulder test that will detect the propensity to develop shoulder problems. It is one of those things that you simply have to watch for and select out.

And I conduct my own observations and evaluation.

What do you do? Are there any other useful tests? I have been on the OFA site and Healthgene site and have seen many other tests offered, but most are for breeds other than GSP's. I guess the one other test I have seen offered somewhere for shorthairs is some kind of eye or retinal test, but have not ever seen the problem in thousands of field trial dogs so don't know that there is a need to test.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:19 am

John,

Can you elaborate a little on the "hidden coat color" test. To wit, how to go about getting it done.

Best,

EWSIV · Post by **EWSIV** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:35 am

I agree with ezzy on brits. For labs, I want to see tests for hips, elbows, eyes, and CNM.

When I buy a pup, I would prefer to see more tests than less.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:43 am

You can find it on the Healthgene website, I think it is $75 and it is the same method of obtaining DNA (i.e. a swab) that you would have done when you got the AKC kit and AKC DNA number. http://healthgene.com/canine/pointer_ge ... haired.asp

Let me warn you a little about the Healthgene thing. Their testing I think is very accurate. They email you a copy of the test results. However, then they send you a certificate that reflects the test results. I had them test two dogs at two separate times. In both cases the test results were no hidden coat colors, the dogs were DNA'd as "EEbb" liver and white. But the certificates came back screwy, with totally non GSP colors that looked like someone who does not know what "b" means wrote out the certificate. I had to call them and get the certificates corrected in both cases. They apologized and said they had the problem fixed.

What they are looking for in the DNA test is a recessive gene for a non-GSP coat color. Like EEby. Just making this up as an example, cause I don't remember off the top of my head wht the abbreviation for yellow or lemon is, but if it is a recessive it could hide, be in the genetic makeup, and not be expressed.

I have done quite a bit of research on the line going back to the Moesgaard dogs, and there is not "pointer in the woodpile," but there is so much BS out there, any white coated dog that wins has to be a pointer, that I wanted what proof is available.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:50 am

PS on the thyroid, there are basically two tests. The regular T-4 test, and the Michigan test. Don't remember the details of the Michigan test, but basically, it is based on the premise that hypothyroidism in most cases is the result of a genetic autoimmune process. You can do a T-4 on a dog and get a reading on its thyroid levels which may be negative at the point in time when it is done, but if the dog has the genetic deficiency it will develop hypothyroidism later in life and can pass those genes on. The Michigan test is expensive, but tests for a hormone or enzyme, don't remember which, that is present at an early age in dogs that have the tendency to develop hypothyroidism. So you can do the test at age two or so, and be reasonably assured that the dog is not going to become hypothyroid or pass the tendency on to offspring.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:42 pm

Thank you, John, I appreciate the info.

I've had OFA hips and elbows, thyroid and brucellosis done. Looking for an opportunity to do heart and eyes.

Given the smack that I've been given by a couple of parties about my dog having a lot of white, it would be worth $75 to me to have some proof.

The pup goes back next weekend, so I probably can't get it done right away but will put it on the list of things to do.

Best regards,

Brittguy · Post by **Brittguy** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:08 pm

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:40 pm

Greg, I wish I had a nickel for every windshield wiper dog that came off the course and lost 25 years ago, and then bandmouthed the color of the dog they lost to.

Although not in the current album, you can find pictures of some awfully white German dogs dating back to the 1800's still in this thread. Make some copies and carry them around with you. http://www.gundogforum.com/forum/viewto ... 20&start=0

And here are some photos of a modern day Romanian dog directly out of the world famous German Hege-Haus kennel, including photos of rht dog with the owner of Hege Haus. Hege Haus is credited by some for having preserved some of the coat colors Goering sought to extinguish. http://www.shorthairs.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3073

Look familiar??

Debf · Post by **Debf** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:03 pm

John,

Do you know of a website that has information on the Michigan Thyroid test? I attended a seminar by Jean Dodds about a year ago and at that time she said the best method was to test dogs for three years starting at age one. If the levels didn't drop you could be relatively sure the dog was not hypothyroid. If the Michigan test is as effective it would be important to get out to the GWP community - we're number two in the OFA reports for incidence of hypothyroidism.

Thanks,
Deb

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:47 pm

I do not, however, I had Don Rice, the head vet over at Stillwater Animal Clinic do my last one. He knows the skinny on it.

If you have a GWP I would especially recommend it, saw it in my own dogs and saw other's that had it.

Debf · Post by **Debf** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:38 pm

Both of our GWPs are hypothyroid too - which is why I was at the Dodds seminar. It's a manditory test for wirehairs. DD's on the other hand, don't have the problem.

Deb

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:43 pm

DD's say they don't have the problem. All breeds have the problem, the question is, how prevalent is it and what are the breeders doing to eliminate it.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:18 pm

Wagonmaster wrote:Greg, I wish I had a nickel for every windshield wiper dog that came off the course and lost 25 years ago, and then bandmouthed the color of the dog they lost to.

Yep. I understand. I went through all those threads here and on UBD with CrazyDog.

But it sure would be nice to have *proof*.

Best,