Bird Dog Wars

Boomer · Post by **Boomer** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:33 am

New TV show is coming in July. Check it out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K77kYaBekQ4

MGIII · Post by **MGIII** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:53 am

Which network

lahunter562 · Post by **lahunter562** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:34 pm

That's some good stuff there! Which network?

Gooseman07 · Post by **Gooseman07** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:41 pm

Following, hopefully I can get it on Apple TV!!

Boomer · Post by **Boomer** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:50 pm

Pursuit channel has the first airing of the show. I think it is on dish tv . There has been a few episodes already filmed and that will enclude both pointers and flushers. When I know more I will pass it on....

DudeRN · Post by **DudeRN** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:36 pm

excellent!!! I think we have the pursuit channel on Dish!

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:56 pm

All fun and games till a cocker wins it all

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:26 pm

Hopefully not another show with guys running in the field with loaded guns and half trained dog's.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:05 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:Hopefully not another show with guys running in the field with loaded guns and half trained dog's.

I think so from the sounds of it. Not what I want my grandkids to see. Hunting is a sport where there are no losers and not a race that includes unsafe practices.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:11 pm

Looks fun.

Meller · Post by **Meller** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:03 pm

Looks like the BDC to me.

NEhomer · Post by **NEhomer** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:04 am

Looks like the BDC to me.

...I don't see any difference at all.

I watched a few BDC shows just for the points but that stuff just doesn't hold my interest.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:09 am

ezzy333 wrote:
gonehuntin' wrote:Hopefully not another show with guys running in the field with loaded guns and half trained dog's.
I think so from the sounds of it. Not what I want my grandkids to see. Hunting is a sport where there are no losers and not a race that includes unsafe practices.

Too bad isn't it Ezzy. We work so hard to promote trained dogs, sportsmanship and safe gun handling then they put these junk shows on TV and totally destroy it in a half hour session. Kids watch and say "But that's what they do on TV". Maybe you and I are must too darn old.

shags · Post by **shags** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:47 am

gonehuntin' wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:
gonehuntin' wrote:Hopefully not another show with guys running in the field with loaded guns and half trained dog's.
I think so from the sounds of it. Not what I want my grandkids to see. Hunting is a sport where there are no losers and not a race that includes unsafe practices.
Too bad isn't it Ezzy. We work so hard to promote trained dogs, sportsmanship and safe gun handling then they put these junk shows on TV and totally destroy it in a half hour session. Kids watch and say "But that's what they do on TV". Maybe you and I are must too darn old.

It's sad, isn't it? Probably like you guys, I was brought up to have some respect for the birds, rabbits, or whatever we were after. It was never about how many killed in in how much time. I'm kind of glad to be a geezer...umm, geezette.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:00 am

In a retriever trial/hunt test, they take tame ducks (or pheasant), throw them up in the air and kill them, if they get away they repeat until they kill the tame ducks for the "game", then they are retrieved. In Spaniel trials, they plant the tame pheasants in a very small area and go out a kill them. Same concept as game farms, they raise tame birds, plant them, then kill them, so people don't have to spend the day hunting without shooting something. So this would be about about as much sporting as game farms, retriever hunt tests and trials, spainiel hunt tests and trials and game farms. Now its a competition, so I'm guessing you better have a "trained" dog, otherwise your throwing your money away. It promotes sportsmanship as much as a game preserve does, shooting tame birds as apposed to hunting wild ones.

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:11 am

Guys -

The fact of the matter is that lots of folks like to kill birds over their dogs and this is one way to do that. I used to measure the success of the day by the fullness of my game bag, so I do understand the attraction of events like this. I am a mediocre shot at best and, anymore, I have all I can do to walk in a field without landing on my face, soI won't be participating.

In truth, these kinds of competitions are not my cup of tea. Never really were, but that was, and is, my choice. As long as they are done safely, I have absolutely no problem with them. I also have no problem with driven pigeon shoots, tower shoots or most of the various ways that folks choose to enjoy their time afield with their dogs and winged game.

If they get folks out having fun with their dogs, I honestly believe that is a good thing, on balance. The more folks we have out there with their dogs, the more power we all have.

Also, people's needs and desires change over time. Mine certainly did. Some will drift away from hunting altogether. Some will drift away from these kinds of events, to different types of hunting. Some may gravitate toward hunt tests. A few might even gravitate toward field trials. But a fair number will still be out there, in the fields hunting some kind of birds with their dogs.

If only one in a hundred of these folks gets into hunt tests or field trials... that will be more than we had without them. As long as they are out there, hunting over their dogs...we all win.

RayG

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:58 am

I'll try to watch it before I judge.

ruffbritt4 · Post by **ruffbritt4** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:33 am

Pretty much the same thing as the bird dog circuit, episodes of that can be found on youtube. In my opinion, hunting is not and should not be a competition over who can bag the most birds the fastest. They rush through the fields with loaded guns ripping the birds from their dogs mouth after the retrieve. I think it gives people a bad idea about hunting, kind of like the shows where people are hunting deer over a pile of corn. In the end it all comes down to what you look for in a hunt. You can go out in the woods and find some birds, enjoy nice cover and your dogs or you can go in search of your limit and miss out on a lot of really cool things while doing so.

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:00 pm

No doubt the dogs enjoy the activity and for that, good luck to 'em...and to Boomer, were he to be the feller in the video.

But, the tennis shoe trialing stuff, in a format for television or not, represents nothing of interest, value or appraisal, for me.
Just a shame that it represents what folks are turning to in finding time to spend with their dogs.
Then again, it may not be much of a shame as more and more do not realize there was once more, and at times, there still is..... more out there.
Or, some folks simply find profit in a venture or appeal in making the scene.
Basically, it becomes easy to rationalize away that which offers a trophy that can never be set upon a shelf.
Easier still to rationalize away when many upland birds and habitats are facing ever greater struggles and negative impacts.

What can never be rationalized or excused away is the profound disrespect shown in these events when birds are ripped and stuffed in the quest for a reward that would hold a liter of dog piss.
Fingers crossed as well that there is never a shooting "accident" from shaving a moment or two.
Additionally, those antis seeking to stop whatever....will never consider that their newest evidence presented upon a silver platter of the airwaves does not represent the entirety of those seeking to follow a bird dog's tail.
We...are often colored by the actions of those quite happy to...rationalize.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:08 pm

nikegundog wrote:In a retriever trial/hunt test, they take tame ducks (or pheasant), throw them up in the air and kill them, if they get away they repeat until they kill the tame ducks for the "game", then they are retrieved. In Spaniel trials, they plant the tame pheasants in a very small area and go out a kill them. Same concept as game farms, they raise tame birds, plant them, then kill them, so people don't have to spend the day hunting without shooting something. So this would be about about as much sporting as game farms, retriever hunt tests and trials, spainiel hunt tests and trials and game farms. Now its a competition, so I'm guessing you better have a "trained" dog, otherwise your throwing your money away. It promotes sportsmanship as much as a game preserve does, shooting tame birds as apposed to hunting wild ones.

I want you to go out and pickup a few of those tame birds so we all can pet them. As you know, we are talking to completely different aspects when we watch people running with loaded guns in a game compared to an event trying to show how well a dog has been trained.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:59 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
nikegundog wrote:In a retriever trial/hunt test, they take tame ducks (or pheasant), throw them up in the air and kill them, if they get away they repeat until they kill the tame ducks for the "game", then they are retrieved. In Spaniel trials, they plant the tame pheasants in a very small area and go out a kill them. Same concept as game farms, they raise tame birds, plant them, then kill them, so people don't have to spend the day hunting without shooting something. So this would be about about as much sporting as game farms, retriever hunt tests and trials, spainiel hunt tests and trials and game farms. Now its a competition, so I'm guessing you better have a "trained" dog, otherwise your throwing your money away. It promotes sportsmanship as much as a game preserve does, shooting tame birds as apposed to hunting wild ones.

I want you to go out and pickup a few of those tame birds so we all can pet them. As you know, we are talking to completely different aspects when we watch people running with loaded guns in a game compared to an event trying to show how well a dog has been trained.

I went on one of those mock hunts, while I didn't pick up any of those tame birds, the dog collected more of them than I shot over him. Some people enjoy shooting tame pheasants, it is what it is, sporting it is not. Its more for those that just want to kill stuff. Like mentioned some enjoy shooting deer they've been feeding for three months off a pile of bait. I would never take why son to a preserve and tell him that this is what hunting is.... but with that said, any activity that gets the dogs out is a good thing. While I have never taken part in it, it seems to be competive you would have to train your dog, shoot well and actually have a dog that will retrieve to hand, not all bad as I see it. I believe Ray was spot on, in his post.

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:18 pm

nikegundog wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:
nikegundog wrote:In a retriever trial/hunt test, they take tame ducks (or pheasant), throw them up in the air and kill them, if they get away they repeat until they kill the tame ducks for the "game", then they are retrieved. In Spaniel trials, they plant the tame pheasants in a very small area and go out a kill them. Same concept as game farms, they raise tame birds, plant them, then kill them, so people don't have to spend the day hunting without shooting something. So this would be about about as much sporting as game farms, retriever hunt tests and trials, spainiel hunt tests and trials and game farms. Now its a competition, so I'm guessing you better have a "trained" dog, otherwise your throwing your money away. It promotes sportsmanship as much as a game preserve does, shooting tame birds as apposed to hunting wild ones.

I want you to go out and pickup a few of those tame birds so we all can pet them. As you know, we are talking to completely different aspects when we watch people running with loaded guns in a game compared to an event trying to show how well a dog has been trained.
I went on one of those mock hunts, while I didn't pick up any of those tame birds, the dog collected more of them than I shot over him. Some people enjoy shooting tame pheasants, it is what it is, sporting it is not. Its more for those that just want to kill stuff. Like mentioned some enjoy shooting deer they've been feeding for three months off a pile of bait. I would never take why son to a preserve and tell him that this is what hunting is.... but with that said, any activity that gets the dogs out is a good thing. While I have never taken part in it, it seems to be competive you would have to train your dog, shoot well and actually have a dog that will retrieve to hand, not all bad as I see it. I believe Ray was spot on, in his post.

Don't presume to know the motivation of others.

I do a few preserve hunts. They are good for dog experience, they let my handicapped father come along and watch, and are good for exposing kids to the experience.

madmurph · Post by **madmurph** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:24 pm

I knew that this thread, like so many others on this forum, was going to end up in a pissing match. I remember the following thread on here dealing with these tournament hunt formats a few years back that went down the same path:

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=38780&p=363470#p363470

Although I prefer a format that judges how polished a dog is, including steadiness and honoring for pointing dogs, there are some that prefer these tournament hunt formats and so be it. I tried these tournament hunt competitions in the past and it just isn't my cup of tea. In the flushing division, the dogs were actually allowed to trap the birds and were given full score for it, the same as if the bird were flushed.

I'm choosing not to knock these competitors. I'm guessing most of them don't have an interest in our games either, whether it be AF, AKC, NSTRA or NAVHDA.

Nike, do you use any of those tame birds in training or are you fortunate enough to be able to train strictly on wild birds?

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:44 pm

madmurph wrote:I knew that this thread, like so many others on this forum, was going to end up in a pissing match. I remember the following thread on here dealing with these tournament hunt formats a few years back that went down the same path:

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=38780&p=363470#p363470

Although I prefer a format that judges how polished a dog is, including steadiness and honoring for pointing dogs, there are some that prefer these tournament hunt formats and so be it. I tried these tournament hunt competitions in the past and it just isn't my cup of tea. In the flushing division, the dogs were actually allowed to trap the birds and were given full score for it, the same as if the bird were flushed.

I'm choosing not to knock these competitors. I'm guessing most of them don't have an interest in our games either, whether it be AF, AKC, NSTRA or NAVHDA.

Nike, do you use any of those tame birds in training or are you fortunate enough to be able to train strictly on wild birds?

Pigeons, ducks, pheasants, chukars, even used a couple chickens once.

madmurph · Post by **madmurph** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:57 pm

I was unsure Nike, if you had enough wild ones in your parts or not. Now chickens, that's good stuff. I love it.

ESS13 · Post by **ESS13** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:04 pm

I was under the impression pheasants were similar to trout. Once they are born, they are no longer considered tame. I dont think I could catch trout out of the koy pond at Gander Mountain or shoot pheasants inside the bird pen at my rod/gun club.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:00 pm

I do understand the excitement and the compition and they are fun to watch for someone that understands what is going on. I do not want to see or want anyone else to see people more interested in winning than being safe. And I sure don't like to see it promoted as hunting wars or give anyone the idea that it is hunting as we know it. We even have laws that say you have to take a safety course and pass it before you can hunt legally but then promote running, gunning and taking ill advised shots and call it hunting wars.

What Nike is talking about is if you have birds put out and dizzied so thy won't fly away you are asking for problems if you go out after them as soon as they are put out as the dog will or can catch them if the dog isn't steady as the birds may still be asleep. If they are released the day before or even just a two or three hours ahead of hunting they are very close to what completely native hatched birds are. Admittedly they are not quite as spooky but they don't lack wildness if raised right. that's why so many states have released birds for years to augment their wild hatched birds and no one realized they were doing it.

Vision · Post by **Vision** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:33 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:Hopefully not another show with guys running in the field with loaded guns and half trained dog's.

AMEN

Meller · Post by **Meller** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:17 pm

I think if you would read the rules for BDC, or UFTA they are not allowed to run, so if need be, criticize the judge for not enforcing the rules. I myself have not participated in these games, but have been and watched several, and the people that do participate take it just as serious as the games that you all play; whatever that may be.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:21 pm

You need to; or should, consider long and hard your approach and broadcast of competition that involves killing things. It is hard to make a non hunter a pro hunter but really easy to make them anti hunters. Whether we like the culture or not...as they say it is what it is...

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:35 pm

Meller wrote:I think if you would read the rules for BDC, or UFTA they are not allowed to run, so if need be, criticize the judge for not enforcing the rules. I myself have not participated in these games, but have been and watched several, and the people that do participate take it just as serious as the games that you all play; whatever that may be.

There was more running on the few episodes of BDC I struggled through than fighting in a season of hockey.

Meller · Post by **Meller** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:03 am

I didn't say there was no running, just that by the rules there is not supposed to be running. Look at the rules for Bird Dog Challenge.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:11 am

Meller wrote:I didn't say there was no running, just that by the rules there is not supposed to be running. Look at the rules for Bird Dog Challenge.

3.
Running during competition is NEVER allowed. Scoresheets include “WATCH YOUR PACE” boxes on them. As you leave the gate, scorekeepers will inform competitors of what an acceptable pace is. From that point forward, anytime a scorekeeper has to slow a competitor down or believes the competitor to be moving at an unsafe pace, they will be penalized. First penalty is 2 points, second penalty is 4 points, and third penalty is a disqualification.Any penalty will be communicated at the time of the infraction.

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:48 am

Meller wrote:I think if you would read the rules for BDC, or UFTA they are not allowed to run, so if need be, criticize the judge for not enforcing the rules. I myself have not participated in these games, but have been and watched several, and the people that do participate take it just as serious as the games that you all play; whatever that may be.

Rules do have interpretations that vary with the individual involved and judges can be forgiving or show favor and neither is good but the first responsibility is on the tenner shoe feller.
Placing responsibility upon the cop rather than the criminal is not wise.....re scampering after an edge in a competition.
Come now, are these not adults for the most part?

The point tho is not any silly penalty infraction schedule in a competition...it is that running or scampering is unwise and ill-advised.
I suspect we all have done it in some fashion but to broadcast it to viewers perhaps witnessing a "hunting" scenario for the first time....whether they are in favor of the hunting or not, is dumb.

As to the shooting, the shooting seems as either too close or too far...with the last a shot perhaps wisely not taken in the field.
Killing stuff for broadcast cameras has few positives....doing it under a stop watch has none.
Ripping and stuffing, as before, reduces the bird to the level that is also unwise.

I understand money is involved and folks would like to grow their interest but, as usual, more is involved by association than any individual want.
Maybe, I just need to rethink the adult assumption I brought to the tv screen.

MJB64 · Post by **MJB64** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:20 am

That show probably won't last any longer than this thread.
Mike

QuillGordon · Post by **QuillGordon** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:44 am

That show probably won't last any longer than this thread.

Probably not but I'll watch it...

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:31 am

So, if the rules don't allow running, the judges must be pretty darn poor judges to allow it. In a Retriever Field Trial, any breach of the rules results in either complaints to the judge or written charges to the field trial committee. The ones I saw on TV, the men were running, the dog's weren't steady and half wouldn't really deliver to hand, the "hunters" had to kind of stretch out and try to coax the bird from them or them to the hunter with the bird. I think they had to keep one foot planted and could then reach as far as they could stretch to get the bird from the dog.

I was thoroughly turned off by the shows. Hunters running with loaded guns, dog's breaking and creeping on point, dog's no delivering properly to hand. The whole repulsive display represented NOTHING I want to be associated with in hunting. A show like that aired on a public channel does more to harm the image of the "hunter" than any other show I've seen.

And then to call a dog a CHAMPION that was only half trained represented by a handler that was a half wit? Not thanks.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:34 am

gonehuntin' wrote:So, if the rules don't allow running, the judges must be pretty darn poor judges to allow it. In a Retriever Field Trial, any breach of the rules results in either complaints to the judge or written charges to the field trial committee. The ones I saw on TV, the men were running, the dog's weren't steady and half wouldn't really deliver to hand, the "hunters" had to kind of stretch out and try to coax the bird from them or them to the hunter with the bird. I think they had to keep one foot planted and could then reach as far as they could stretch to get the bird from the dog.

I was thoroughly turned off by the shows. Hunters running with loaded guns, dog's breaking and creeping on point, dog's no delivering properly to hand. The whole repulsive display represented NOTHING I want to be associated with in hunting. A show like that aired on a public channel does more to harm the image of the "hunter" than any other show I've seen.

And then to call a dog a CHAMPION that was only half trained represented by a handler that was a half wit? Not thanks.

If you go to the Retriever site, you will find hundreds of thread of judges arguing their interpretations of the rules, it laughable. Is a creep three feet or thirty?

If you have 100 dogs running, how many ducks must you have 30 or 100? :roll: Does it matter if the dog runs the bank in a derby?

Then they call CHAMPION to dogs that bark at the line and creep 20 feet from the heal. Does that make the handler a half wit? :roll:

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs · Post by **Ricky Ticky Shorthairs** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:36 am

You guys need to check yourselves. There were no safety violations in that video. If you don't like it, don't watch it.
Like Ray said this is where the other types of competitions get their participants.

MJB64 · Post by **MJB64** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:23 am

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote:You guys need to check yourselves. There were no safety violations in that video. If you don't like it, don't watch it.
Like Ray said this is where the other types of competitions get their participants.

Since you brought it up, stop at :42 and 1:11.
Mike

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs · Post by **Ricky Ticky Shorthairs** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:31 am

MJB64 wrote:
Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote:You guys need to check yourselves. There were no safety violations in that video. If you don't like it, don't watch it.
Like Ray said this is where the other types of competitions get their participants.
Since you brought it up, stop at :42 and 1:11.
Mike

Don't see what you're seeing. Enlighten me.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:06 pm

nikegundog wrote:
If you go to the Retriever site, you will find hundreds of thread of judges arguing their interpretations of the rules, it laughable. Is a creep three feet or thirty? If you have 100 dogs running, how many ducks must you have 30 or 100? :roll: Does it matter if the dog runs the bank in a derby?

Then they call CHAMPION to dogs that bark at the line and creep 20 feet from the heal. Does that make the handler a half wit? :roll:

I never ran the gun dog stakes, only the AKC licensed field trials. In a FIELD trial there is very little room for interpretation of the rules. They are VERY clear. Let's go in order of what you mentioned above. If a dog creeps 30' he's left the line. He is probably going to screw up the mark anyhow so in effect they many times put themselves out. When I ran, the judge never let you send the dog; you had to re-heel them and you had to do so quietly.

What does the number of dog's running have to do with number of birds? You need a shot flier for every dog. You may use two. You may shoot several hundred birds in one trial. So what? I don't get your point there.

They are not supposed to count it in the derby if a dog runs the bank because in the Derby, marking is supposed to be of primary importance. Now, there's two points here. Many times if a dog runs the bank, he'll put himself out because a smart judge will set it up so he switches birds when he does. Most times the straightest line to the birds wins the trail. Second, to me, the dog SHOULD be dropped because he has avoided the hazard of a test, the water. However, the AKC's view, it's my understanding, is that the marking overshadows the mechanical. If I were a judge, I wouldn't set the test if I wasn't going to enforce the concept.

It clearly states in the rules that a dog HAS to be quiet on line. If I had a dog that whined loudly, he'd be gone. If a trainer lets a dog creep, whine, and avoid water he's not trainer and he is a half wit because he ain't going' far in the field trial game.

The things your mentioning here are totally different to what they promote in the BDC. If you think you can run an AKC Field trial, let your dog creep, run the bank, and bark, do it and see how far you get. Bad manners will themselves eliminate many dogs.

MJB64 · Post by **MJB64** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:18 pm

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote:
MJB64 wrote:
Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote:You guys need to check yourselves. There were no safety violations in that video. If you don't like it, don't watch it.
Like Ray said this is where the other types of competitions get their participants.
Since you brought it up, stop at :42 and 1:11.
Mike
Don't see what you're seeing. Enlighten me.

Where is the gun pointing? I say get it up in the air or break it open. To each their own.
Mike

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs · Post by **Ricky Ticky Shorthairs** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:27 pm

MJB64 · Post by **MJB64** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:01 pm

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote:Wow

You may be right. I don't teach firearm safety. If there are any instructors on the board that would like to chime in I will stand corrected.

Mike

Post by **Sharon** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:44 pm

Had to hit the ground once with the judge at a shoot to retrieve trial. Gun safety is an issue whenever real shells are being used.

pointshootretrieve · Post by **pointshootretrieve** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:38 pm

All dogs should be steady to wing shot and fall to be allowed to run. An unsteady dog is a safety hazard

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:41 pm

pointshootretrieve wrote:All dogs should be steady to wing shot and fall to be allowed to run. An unsteady dog is a safety hazard

I was never run over by an unsteady dog, guess I was just lucky as I never used a steady dog when hunting pheasants.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:13 pm

"If I don't get points on these dogs it could be catastrophic for the business" lol

ruffbritt4 · Post by **ruffbritt4** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:36 pm

ACooper wrote:"If I don't get points on these dogs it could be catastrophic for the business" lol

Exactly. Maybe it's just me but a dog pointing a pen raised bird from 3 feet away and them thinking they have a field champion.... nothing special. Train said dog to do that on wild birds (eliminate the hunting competition part) and you have something I may watch.