Registered names?BUT LIMITED PAPERS?

gary · Post by **gary** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:22 pm

Bought a pup from a breeder to use as stud dog ,but when pup apps came in they were clearly marked limited.
Told breeder we had an agreement for full papers,he refused,but said maybe at some later date.
What would you do????????
Put the $1000 dollar pup to sleep and go to another breeder?
Litigation...to coastly!!!!!!!!!
Hope for papers later?///////

I sent the papers to AKC for regestration with bloted out changes.
The papers came back looking OK (after I made all the changes)....Can you tell me what to look for when looking at AKC papers if they are limited....?????

Post by **kninebirddog** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:59 pm

This is something that should be indicated proir to purchase about limited or full registrations...
if buying for stud purposes and the breeder didn't state limited before hand this is misrepresentation and cause for a suit...Most of the time breeders will do limited due to a breeding fault...or some of the show breeds do not want others breeding so they will also limit......

Did the breeder say why they sent the papers as limited

gary · Post by **gary** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:07 pm

"misrepresentation and cause for a suit"

No reason,Suits are conterproductive,My special forces training has a better way........[/u]

portsider44 · Post by **portsider44** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:50 pm

2nd person on Gun Dog Forum I have heard of that bought & paid premium money for a dog. Only to be given dog with limited papers with out being given notice of this at the time of buying & setting the price.

Makes you wonder how often this happens? Any way if the breeder truly misled you. You must take civil action against them. Not only for yourself but anyone else that that did or may buy a puppy from them.

Of course it will come down to he said-you said unless there was a written contract. Thats the main reason I always try to get some type of written document in case any issues occur. After talking to the breeder I selected for my new pup. I type up a cover sheet to include with my deposit which I also emailed him. It wasn't a contract, but just summary of what we discussed & agreed to over the phone. At this point we are both clear on what the agreement is & give me a paper trail if things go wrong. Also if I misunderstood the something the breeder said he/she will realize it & let me when they receive it.

Will it hold up in court if needed, not sure. But some many times problems come down to a simple misunderstandings caused by poor communication.

Hope everything works out.

gary · Post by **gary** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:11 pm

How many of you have papers on your dogs that are limited and you do not know it?

Do you know how to tell for sure by looking at Reg.Papers?

I had to call AKC to get the answer.....................

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 8:19 pm

gary wrote:"misrepresentation and cause for a suit"

No reason,Suits are conterproductive,My special forces training has a better way........[/u]

My kind of guy!

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 8:23 pm

I allways make sure of this before hand. I have had many calles and e-mails on my pups and lots of people ask the same thing!

gary · Post by **gary** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 8:33 pm

TAK

This high tail pup should do well if we can just find one of those high tail JUDGES.....
For he is pointing birds at 6 months and running with open dogs.
Yesterday he was on point and 2 open dogs HONERED him...

THE QUESTION is not answered on limited papered......is it a big secrete that is not for publication.....it is at AKC

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 8:33 pm

There is a box on the registration papers that say Full or Limited not sure if it is exactlly that way.
Again this is were I believe getting to know the breeder or person that you sell a pup to is worth the weight in gold!

I have talked to many breeders that do give limited papers until the dog has done (titled)what it is breed to do. This gets mixed opinions with me. There are many champions in back yards that never see the trial life but could hunt the lights out of any bird alive and go on to produce many time winners.

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 8:37 pm

gary wrote:Bought a pup from a breeder to use as stud dog ,but when pup apps came in they were clearly marked limited.
Told breeder we had an agreement for full papers,he refused,but said maybe at some later date.
What would you do????????
Put the $1000 dollar pup to sleep and go to another breeder?
Litigation...to coastly!!!!!!!!!
Hope for papers later?///////

I sent the papers to AKC for regestration with bloted out changes.
The papers came back looking OK (after I made all the changes)....Can you tell me what to look for when looking at AKC papers if they are limited....?????

I would return the dog.... I think you open yourself up by forging the papers.... JMO

$1000, it better clean birds and pull BB's out for you!

honeyrun · Post by **honeyrun** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 9:16 pm

Your reg papers will say "Limited" on them if they are. By making changes to the papers you open yourself up to suspension by the AKC. If it is the practice of the breeder to do so, and they find out that you bred the dog and were able to get full registration, you may be paying those high $$$$ in lawyer fees.

gary · Post by **gary** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 9:38 pm

TAK

The AKC rules state that if a transfer form is changed in any way other than recevied from breeder the AKC will have to contact the breeder for clearance before issueing a Reg Number.......

LOTS OF MONEY FOR PUP.....That's why I don't raise those other's..........Lots of great dogs,, but Dollars are not there for most.

FUNNY,but the the breeders that didn't want these ugly field dogs
in their BENCH club before are helping to drive the price.

gary · Post by **gary** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 9:42 pm

Cindy,

BS,thats not correct,AKC has a color code.......

honeyrun · Post by **honeyrun** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:22 am

Regular registration is Purple borders and limited is Red borders. In fine print, there is the wording "Limited" on the papers. The breeder must send in a fee, along with the papers to change the status of the registration.

If you did change the registration cert, I hope the breeder doesn't get wind of this.

Colleen · Post by **Colleen** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:37 am

Hey Gary, what say you be a little less rude to the people you are asking for help? Sheesh.

You got a raw deal, it sucks. Like TAK said, that's why it's good to know and trust the breeder you are getting a pup from. But putting pup to sleep because he has limited registration? Isn't that just a teeny tiny bit over-the-top? It's not pup's fault he's got limited registration and it sounds like he could sure make a nice hunting dog for someone, if not for you.

gary · Post by **gary** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:26 am

Cindy Stahle

Sorry for rant,I suggested to breeder about makeing the 2000 mile trip to visit if papers did not come back full before I mailed to AKC. "They came back full."

This post was to bring up problems when buying a pup from breeders.Phone conversations don't seem to enough,so write
your interest down.

COLLEEN:
DID I DO WRONG deleteing out the kennel name...

TAK:
SHOULD BREEDERS advertise pups for sale"AKC LIMITED REG"

Country-Side Breeders · Post by **Country-Side Breeders** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:29 am

Cindy is correct in that the borders are different colors and the print. If you wanted it changed bad enough, then you should've talked to the breeder and stated your case as to why you want full registration...they are the only people that can legally change it. You're certainly taking a chance in using him as a stud in the future by changing the registration without the breeders notification...good luck on that one!

How are you going to explain that one when/if the breeder comes across one of your pups from him? Breeders keep strict files on the people they sell dogs to...they'll remember that it was limited reg.

Colleen · Post by **Colleen** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:44 pm

DID I DO WRONG deleteing out the kennel name...

SHOULD BREEDERS advertise pups for sale"AKC LIMITED REG"

If you're looking for yes-or-no answers, then my opinion is yes and yes. THe breeder wasn't honest with you, and should have told you pup came with limited registration. Did you tell him beforehand you were looking for a stud dog? Seems odd to me that a breeder who sells his pups under limited registration would agree to sell to someone he knew wanted a stud. But, I also don't think the breeder's lack of openness justifies dishonesty on your part as well.

If all you want is a stud dog, then sell this pup to someone who will hunt him, instead of trying to trick the AKC. THen find a breeder with whom you have better communication, get a pup with full registration and breed him.

honeyrun · Post by **honeyrun** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:07 pm

I know quite a few breeders that sell with limited registrations. Usually it is to keep a handle on their pups. Most likely if you put a title on the pup or tested it in the breeds rating tests the breeder would release the limited status. Breeders can use this to ensure that their pups don't end up in a puppy mill or for profit only situation.

gary · Post by **gary** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:00 pm

QUOTE:If all you want is a stud dog, then sell this pup to someone who will hunt him, instead of trying to trick the AKC.

Colleen:
You Are eat up with it..............

I don't know how you can twist things out of porportion...but I was honest with breeder and sent emails confirming my intentions as well as sending copy of apps before and emailed copies of papers when they came back from AKC.

Breeders email in responce was "Sorry you did not see fit to include
Kennel name"..............

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:14 pm

"""TAK:
SHOULD BREEDERS advertise pups for sale"AKC LIMITED REG"""""

That would be up to the breeder if they want to list it that way. If I was to sale pups as such I would be very up-front with the buyer! Believe me I fall in love with pups as much as the next guy(or Gal) but if I was taken as you discribed I would be on the road with the little pup for a refund.....

Post by **kninebirddog** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 5:14 pm

the only problem with limited is some of the things in AKC do not allow a limited reg....

The only reason I will ever send a pup out on a limited is if there is something wrong...an over bite for instance...i do not feel that this dog belongs in a gene pool BUT i am totally up front with the buyer about my pups...But a limited registration should be noted up front to a prospective buyer.....This is copied from the AKC site

Limited Registration

Limited Registration means that the dog is registered but no litters produced by that dog are eligible for registration.

Chapter 3, Section 4A of the AKC's Rules Applying to Registration and Discipline states the following: "Limited Registration may be requested for a dog when application for individual registration of the dog is submitted, provided the application, together with a request for such limitation, is filed by the owner(s) of the litter at birth.

No offspring of a dog for which Limited Registration has been granted is eligible for registration. Each registration certificate for such dog shall carry notice of the limitation, and the limitation shall continue, regardless of any change of ownership, unless and until the owner(s) of the litter at birth shall apply to AKC for removal of the limitation."

A dog registered with an AKC Limited Registration shall be ineligible to be entered in a breed competition in a licensed or member dog show. It is eligible, however, to be entered in any other licensed or member event. These events include: Obedience, Tracking, Field Trials, Hunting Tests, Herding, Lure Coursing, Agility and Earthdog.

Limited Registration is determined by the litter owner(s). The litter owner(s) check the Limited box on the AKC Dog Registration Application.

Limited Registration certificates are white with an orange border; the Full Registration certificate is white with a purple border.

Limited Registration can be changed to Full Registration only by the litter owner(s). The litter owner(s) will need to obtain the Application to Revoke Limited Status. That form will then need to be completed and sent to our Raleigh address with the processing fee. After processing, we will send a Full Registration certificate to the dog's owner.

Limited Registration helps breeders protect their breeding programs. If breeders do not want puppies used for breeding purposes, they can request the Limited Registration option for those puppies.

The American Kennel Club does not license or endorse anyone engaged in the commerce of selling purebred dogs and, therefore, has no control over the business practices of those involved in such transactions. Membership in the American Kennel Club is comprised of independent dog clubs located throughout the United States. No individual persons are members of the AKC.

The AKC will not become involved in disputes concerning 'full' or 'limited' registration of a dog. These disputes must be resolved by the parties involved in the sale of the dog. The only exception to this is in cases where there is a contract, signed by all parties involved and made at the time of the dog sale, that stipulates the registration status. In those cases, AKC will initiate an inquiry on the matter.

gary · Post by **gary** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:49 pm

ALL IS WELL WITH THIS PUP,for yesterday he found and pointed
2 wild covies and held untill rider dismounted to flush.Best of all
he went hard thru cat thorns and par and never letup.......

ginia · Post by **ginia** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 3:03 am

We discussed this issue with our breeder prior to purchasing our Weim. We were planning to spay, so she gave us the limited registration. I have the Registration Certificate and her AKC pedigree in her scrapbook. (You can view it, pg 8 and 9, at:

http://68.230.100.117:8080/BirdDogs/mSc ... px?navID=3

The registration certificate has an orange-y border and states right on it that it is a limited registration and any offspring are not eligible for registration. The pedigree has a blue border and does not indicate anything about the limited registration. I don't know if that helps, but how she's registered has nothing to do with how she is in the field!

icefire · Post by **icefire** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:09 pm

as far as the name is concerned, the AKC says that it is the owners right to name the dog. the kennel can ask you to include their kennel name but not require you to.

snip · Post by **snip** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:05 pm

This is true. But if the breeder asks you to use their name and buyer agrees there is something called honesty and integrity. If the person does not agree to use the breeders name he could have the b*#*# to admit it and go elsewhere.

sudiegirl · Post by **sudiegirl** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:00 am

wait, sorry for this question (i have gotten a bit lost here in all the fussing)
gary,
did the breeder agree to a full registration under any and all circumstances OR did the breeder agree to give your puppy full registration under the condition that you use his kennel name when naming the pup and you didn't use the kennel's name? 2 totally different situations (obviously), so i was wondering.

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Registered names?BUT LIMITED PAPERS?

Registered names?BUT LIMITED PAPERS?

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Re: Registered names?BUT LIMITED PAPERS?

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