Trial Procedures / Etiquette Questions

newtrialer · Post by **newtrialer** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:39 pm

New Here and New to Trialing...a few questions (in case I'm ever luck enough to be in this situation with my dog)... is there a property procedure or etiquette that is used when a dog places in an event? Or what do you do personally? Do you tip or gift your handler, the scout, the judge? Although gifting a judge may be bribery??, Maybe not, Is it even proper for a judge to accept a gift? If you win $ in the event, do you keep all of it? If you win prizes, such as dog food or collars from a sponser, do you give it to any of the above, keep it all, divide it? IF your lucky enough to have a amateur or professional trainer that also handles your dog in the event too, since you pay them to train your dog; and they place in an event, what do you do in that situation? Thanks in advance for any insight given.

Hotpepper · Post by **Hotpepper** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:47 pm

In an age of correectness you have lots of questions.

Gift for a judge? I would say not in any circumstances. A handshake and a thank you for looking at my dog. Take his comments and be satisified with them.

Money or gift to handler? If an amateur, again the answer is no. A pro is a different matter. If he is working for you he will make you aware of what he wants and handles the cash prizes. Most pro's want to keep the prize money.

Something for your scout? Yes and if a friend, dinner is always appropiate . You might ask.

What else, this is supposed to be a "gentleman's deal", man or woman it is always correct to behave that way. Good taste is the order of the day.

Pepper

phermes1 · Post by **phermes1** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:50 pm

I thank the judges and congratulate the other handlers.
You do NOT tip the judge!!!

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:51 pm

Not sure what kind of trialing you are talking about. The rules vary from one organization to the next. No, you do not ever give gifts or tips to a judge, not in any organization I am aware of. And in most cases, not to your handler or scout either. However, you should go say thank you to judges, scout, handler, and shake their hand. It is traditional to give gifts to the handler and the scout if they win a National Championship for you, but worry about that when you get there.

Who keeps the money is a matter of your deal with the pro, but in most cases it is the pro. Same with dog food etc., usually the pro keeps it. You get any hardward, trophies, ribbons, etc.

wannabe · Post by **wannabe** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:53 pm

I have been given a % of the winnings when I have scouted a dog that has finished in the money, but I would never expect to be paid for scouting. Since I have never entered my dog in a money stake, I do not have any experience with sharing the prize money, but I have given away a lot of Pro Plan Performance to my scouts when I win a few bags.

Post by **Kiki's Mom** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:55 pm

You have already been given the do's
and don'ts about judges. Handlers, unless they are professional should not accept anything for their services if they wish to maintain their amateur status! A big thank you, buying a round of drinks at cocktail hour and or picking up the tab at dinner is acceptable in this situation.

The pros:
1) keep the prize money in a money stake.
2) May or may not expect a cash bonus for placements earned...some even tack on an extra charge to your monthly bill. He will make you very aware of what is expected right up front, usually.
3) if no placement bonus system is in place, it is certainly acceptable to bonus him anyway, if you feel that it has been earned. Bonuses can be in the form of money (the most needed commodity as most pro handlers are not rich people), a bottle of libation(always appreciated, especially if you manage to discover what his preferred poison of choice is), a personal momento of his time spent with your dog such as a new engraved gun belt, emgraved gun scabbard, engraved flask, framed picture of him with your dog, whatever, an all expense paid trip to Hawaii for a week

...you get the idea. The sky is the limit.

The scout:

A great big thank you will suffice. Most scouts need to also maintain their amateur status as well.

dan v · Post by **dan v** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:31 am

So Kiki,

When a person pays an sustantially higher entry fee for a money back stake, and you dogs wins it. The pro keeps the money....fine. Some pros charge a handling fee or expenses or both......and now you get to give them a bonus for winning, or placing?

See, when they were handling your dog, hopefully they don't know if they are gonna place or not, so they do the best they can and let the chips fall were they may.

If I pay a $100 for a money back OLGD stake, my dog wins the $500, the pros keeps the money, I get a ribbon....and then I get to show them my gratitude by sending them some more $$$?

Yeah, I'll send them more $$ at the end of each month.

Brittguy · Post by **Brittguy** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:55 am

She said it is acceptable if you feel it has been earned, Maybe not a weekend trial but like Wagonmaster pointed out when a owner wins something lilke the Nationals he is usually happy enough to give the worker a bonus. I don't think that is so uncommon in other fields of employment, consider it a reward for a great job. Like tipping, it is up to the owner.

Post by **Kiki's Mom** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:42 pm

Thanks Bill...that is exactly what I was trying to say.

Example: The pro that handled my husband's dog for a while actually tacked on a "placement bonus" to the monthly bill. When the dog finished his championship the two boys (handler and owner) celebrated with beers and dinner together.

The pro that handled my dog to placements did not have a placement bonus program in place. He put several pretty big placements on the boy and the first 3 pt major win on him in one season. To show him how much I appreciated his service, however I took he and his wife and several of our mutual friends out to a big steak dinner. When hubbie and I finished my dog's DC title I made sure to call that same handler again and thank him again for his part in the journey and I sent him a bottle of his favorite libation as well ( hubbie got a bonus of a much different and better sort<GG>). HAD this pro been the one to get the dog's title finished, there would have been as big a CASH bonus as I could afford!!!

Hope that clears things up a bit??

Maverick · Post by **Maverick** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:51 am

I am looking forward to that steak dinner with Kiki's mom and her other half who is running my dog for me right now when his FC gets finnished!!
Good luck this weekend!!! See you soon.

Mav.......

newtrialer · Post by **newtrialer** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:08 pm

Thanks for all of your replies...just a couple follow ups in responce...So, all of the $ goes to the pro handler; which from what I understand there isn't always $ involved in every event. How does the pro handlers, scouts, judges make any Real $. If a pro's only job is to train & handle dogs, how does he/she make a Real income if there isn't always $ in every event? I was told by someone that winning events is the way the handler/trainer makes their Real $. Is the event $ really that much? And keeping with this $ talk....after ALL of the $ paid to a trainer and ALL of the $ that is needed to enter enough trials to get a title - how in the world would the dog owner recoop any of it? Breeding, Studing, etc, I am assuming. Seems like an awful lot of $ going out for ribbons and notability Only on the dog owners part.

And alot of hard work & effort on the handlers & scouts part for only the possiblity of prize $ (even if there is any). Although I know that trainers charge to train the dogs, of course. Thanks again for helping me try to understand all of this. It's all new to me.

NE Vizsla · Post by **NE Vizsla** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:01 pm

I didnt realize the handler should get the prize money as well if he or she wins and there is money at stake. You are already paying the handler to run your dog if it wins or not..so im not understanding why the handler gets to keep the money for a win, a split or % maybe but im not understanding why the whole thing. To me this seems like if you win the Kentucky Derby the trainer and rider get the prize money and the owner gets the cup plus pay a bonus ?

A few of you have stated that alot of these handlers are not wealthy men..well neither are some of the owners. I just dont see why you should have to pay extra or not get any prize money when your dog wins, after all these handlers are being payed to win with every dog on there gang. They are doing there job, the one they chose.

Karen · Post by **Karen** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:54 pm

Your best bet is to get rates upfront when shopping for a pro. That way there are no surprises and you're comfortable with the arrangements.

Just remember there are no qualifications required to hang a "pro trainer/handler" shingle so doing your homework, checking references, checking facilities in person, and checking and double-checking their win record is a must.

A bargain trainer or total newbie can cost you dearly in the big picture.

Post by **Kiki's Mom** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:39 am

checking and double-checking their win record is a must.

A bargain trainer or total newbie can cost you dearly in the big picture.

Plenty of trainers out there never, ever compete. Others become trainers because they are tired of competing, so their "win record" is old news and no longer note worthy to a potential client. So checking a win record and it being a "must" isn't necessarily an indication of a good trainer.

A good trainer is one who gets the job done and keeps the dogs in his care happy and healthy in the process. AS far as costing ...dearly or not I guess that depends on what you are willing to spend, and for how long. Check references, get your agreements upfront and being comfortable with the person you choose to handle your dog for you are essential.

Karen · Post by **Karen** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:26 am

Kiki's Mom wrote:Plenty of trainers out there never, ever compete. Others become trainers because they are tired of competing, so their "win record" is old news and no longer note worthy to a potential client. So checking a win record and it being a "must" isn't necessarily an indication of a good trainer.

But if I'm not mistaken, this conversation is about pro handlers, and if they've never competed, or have had no measurable success doing so....well, how does that make them any more competent than me?

It's just as easy to pay a pro with a long, succssful record as it is to pay one without, and in the end our dogs are measured by their records. Why not measure the pro handler we choose to help us build that record with the same measuring stick?

And Helen, believe it or not I didn't comment on this thread to pick a fight with you or Brian. I have some recent experience talking to pro handlers since my recent accident has left me disabled for the season.

wannabe · Post by **wannabe** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:00 am

NE Vizsla wrote:I didnt realize the handler should get the prize money as well if he or she wins and there is money at stake. You are already paying the handler to run your dog if it wins or not..so im not understanding why the handler gets to keep the money for a win, a split or % maybe but im not understanding why the whole thing. To me this seems like if you win the Kentucky Derby the trainer and rider get the prize money and the owner gets the cup plus pay a bonus ?

A few of you have stated that alot of these handlers are not wealthy men..well neither are some of the owners. I just dont see why you should have to pay extra or not get any prize money when your dog wins, after all these handlers are being payed to win with every dog on there gang. They are doing there job, the one they chose.

If a pro handler has 5 potential winners on his string, and only one of their owners lets him keep the prize money that his handling won, guess which dog is going to end up in the money the majority of the time.

He shoots five bullets at the judges, but one of them is aimed better than the others. If anyone is in the dog game for the money, I would advise them to find another hobby. :roll:

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:54 am

Lets say a handler charges $500 per month per dog. That is on the high end these days, but makes for easy math. And lets say the handler also charges traveling expenses, split among the owners, and the owners pay the entry fees for the dogs.

If the handler is very successful, he or she has 20 dogs in the string, so monthly gross revenue is 20 x $500 = $10,000 per month. Annual gross revenue is $120,000 per year. Which probably sounds like alot of money to most people. But the handler runs a small business. Out of that 120000 comes feed costs for the dogs, the cost of purchasing and owning a rig (and the total for that is now over a hundred thou for the type of rig the pros need), buying and maintaining horse, paying for life and health insurance as a small proprietorship, etc. etc. In most businesses, if the net is 35-40%, you are doing good. So that pro's actual take home is about $40,000-50,000. Out of which they are then going to have to pay the living expenses for their family (if they have one), and set money aside for retirement.

For that money, they are responsible for the care, training, and maintenance of 20 quality dogs and a couple of horses, which means dairymen's hours. Up at 4-4:30, stake out the dogs, give them water, same with the horses, train all day, or run dogs all day at a trial, then around sunset, feed the dogs, feed the horses, etc. and flop into bed exhausted. Then do it again the next day, and the next.

They earn every penny they make. The winnings they keep usually go to replace the tranny on the truck, and if anything is left over from it, they can hopefully set aside something so that when their bodies can no longer take the daily stress, they can retire.

My pro gets the winnings from my dog, no questions asked. He is worth it.

NE Vizsla · Post by **NE Vizsla** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:57 pm

The winnings can help pay for his tranny ?? That is one of the problems that comes along with the job he chose. You are trying to explain what kind of live a handler lives and what he has to pay for out of the money he makes..his job is no diffrent then anyone elses job out there, we all have bills to pay I dont see why a handler should get a bonus everytime he has a winning dog..thats what he is being payed for anyways. I wish i had a job where every time I did a great job i got a nice bonus for doing no more then the job im already being payed to be good at.

Now wanabe, your saying my handler would try harder if i let him keep the money??? I though they did it for the love of the game ?? If the handler will do a better job if he gets to keep the money id call that a crook as your already paying him to do his best at a job..handling your dog. You also stated that if anyone is in the dog game for money then they need to find a new hobby..sounds to me like that is exactly what these handlers are in the game for.

The client is not reponsible for the handlers tranny, family, insurance or retirement..that all comes along with being a adult and having the job they chose to have.

Im glad your pro is worth the winnings...ill bet he smiles every time he sees you coming.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:08 pm

NEV you sorta missed the point. The pro is running a small business. He does not just have"bills." Around 60% of what he takes in is going to operating expenses, including the care and feeding of the dogs, including the care and feeding of your dog. For those 20 dogs, for example, he will go through at least one bag of premium feed per day.

Yes, there are alot of people out there who only see their side of the equation and want it cheap, cheap, cheap. There are no dog pros getting rich off what they charge, plus the winnings. If you want it cheap, don't expect to find a good pro. You get what you pay for.

bobman · Post by **bobman** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:26 pm

Wagonmaster, I agree and I wouldnt work that hard for that money, very informative post the way you broke that down

thanks

Bob

wannabe · Post by **wannabe** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:11 pm

NE Vizsla,

How much prize money did your pro win for you last year?

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:24 pm

NE V look at it this way. Many of the trial pro's will use a portion of stud fees or puppy money to offset your bill. One of the best ways to promote your stud or bitch is to have them do well in hour championships and in limited stakes. If your great male is getting 500-750.00 or more in stud fees that will pay for a whole lot of training and campaigning. Therefore what little your pro might pocket off of winning a money stake with the dog as his/her "bonus" is chicken feed compared to what you are going to be taking home in stud fee money or what he/she is going to be writing off of your bill for those fees.

You want your dog with a top pro? Well you have to be willing to do things the way the top pro's do it. If not there are a lot of second and third tier trianers trying to make a name for themselves that will probably be willing to work more within your budget if you have a dog they think is going to make them look good as a trainer/handler. CR

Post by **Kiki's Mom** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:16 pm

Karen...where did you get that your comment was "picking a fight"? You are mistaken....this thread was not about "how to pick a pro" it was about what is the protocol and etiquette regarding who gets to keep the cash won in a money stake, how are bonuses are handled, how to thank your handler and scout for a job well done.
Nothing more, nothing less.

So sorry to hear about your accident. ATV's are very dangerous....even on flat ground. Guess you were going a bit fast keeping up with your dogs, huh?

Godspeed in your recovery.

Post by **Kiki's Mom** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:27 pm

A few of you have stated that alot of these handlers are not wealthy men..well neither are some of the owners. I just dont see why you should have to pay extra or not get any prize money when your dog wins, after all these handlers are being payed to win with every dog on there gang. They are doing there job, the one they chose.

Actually you don't HAVE to pay extra... to do so is usually by your choice. The courtesy of letting the handler keep the cash from a money stake probably originated along the lines of the BONUS theory in the beginning and has just evolved into etiquette from there. If you want the cash from the money stake to land in your pocket you probably ought to consider handling your dog yourself OR negotiate with your handler a different scenario for the money up front.

JMO

Karen · Post by **Karen** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:05 pm

Kiki's Mom wrote: Plenty of trainers out there never, ever compete. Others become trainers because they are tired of competing, so their "win record" is old news and no longer note worthy to a potential client. So checking a win record and it being a "must" isn't necessarily an indication of a good trainer.

A good trainer is one who gets the job done and keeps the dogs in his care happy and healthy in the process. AS far as costing ...dearly or not I guess that depends on what you are willing to spend, and for how long. Check references, get your agreements upfront and being comfortable with the person you choose to handle your dog for you are essential.

You are mistaken....this thread was not about "how to pick a pro" it was about what is the protocol and etiquette regarding who gets to keep the cash won in a money stake, how are bonuses are handled, how to thank your handler and scout for a job well done.

I'm quite aware of what the thread was about. Maybe you should try harder to stay on topic.

So sorry to hear about your accident. ATV's are very dangerous....even on flat ground. Guess you were going a bit fast keeping up with your dogs, huh?

You simply don't have a clue what you're talking about.

NE Vizsla · Post by **NE Vizsla** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:28 pm

wannabe wrote:NE Vizsla,

How much prize money did your pro win for you last year?

I have never ran a dog in a Field Trial, if i had I would have known all this already. I have foot hunting Vizsla's..come on man.

Im not looking for a cheap cheap cheap pro, im not looking to Field Trial, i just dont understand why you would pay extra for a job he or she is already being payed to do. Sounds like a crooked business, the more money your willing to pay out the better you'll do. Proper etiquette would be the pro not expecting anything more for just doing his job.

I dont think i missed the point, sure he runs a small business and along with a small business comes all the bills that go with it. So what if he goes through a bag a day, that should be figured into his monthly feed bill which is then added onto your monthly bill..so the food is getting paid for by you in the end. These pros are not out anything in the end, if they were they would no longer be in business.

Wagon I respect your opinion and i know your trying your best to explain this to me but im going to have to agree to disagree on this..i just dont see it, sorry.

Post by **pear** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:16 pm

NE Vizsla, NewTrialer, ask a fair and reasonable question, which has been answered in a, couple different ways, all giving about the same answers as to what is fair, equitable and accepted, in the game/sport of "Field Trialing", and "Professional Dog Training/Handling". Nowhere did I see it said that these were hard fast rules, but merely the accepted method we generally use. Which was what the question was...

Now that said, I'll address your comments directly, and see if we can shed some light on why they do and feel as they do towards their professional handlers and trainers. I, like many others here, yourself included, (I assume, and hope) work for a living. Myself as an example work for a large internationally known plastics manufacturer, and draw an hourly wage. That wage is what I make for what I do, and it's what the company I work for, and myself feel people doing what I do are worth. All of the plants in our area pay within a few cents an hour of each other for comparable work. Now as a manufacturing facility we have customers who buy our product. .... Our product is sold to make a profit, and what we make is more than just commodity plastic, (things like pipe grade plastic). Lets say our line produces an order, and because of our extra performance, said customer buys extra from us because we have proven our service to be superior. Thus our company makes more money (profit). Now our employer is happy with our performance and gives us a bonus, over and above what we normally make. Not always money, and not always because we made money but maybe because we simply went above and beyond to do it safely so they could have pride in a manufacturing record. Now remember I make a very fair wage, and don't have to be paid, or rewarded any extra, as I'm already doing exactly what I'm being paid to do. However that bonus is a performance enhancer, and the guys on my manufacturing line work harder to show our company that we appreciate, their sharing the wealth.

Ok now lets put this into a perspective that will make the dog owner like the company owner(s). My dog is the machine, (yes I know I'm crossing a line here but hear me out). He/she produces, the pride I have in owning a fine dog. As well as, is capable of producing offspring, that will also provide income that may support my habit, (remember this may be a hobby or a business, but either way there are expenses involved). So now my professional trainer/handler has helped manufacture the pride and bragging rights I now have in owning such a fine dog, so I reward him with a bonus, for his efforts, just as I was given a bonus for my employer, reaping a benefit for my work, which they were already paying me to do. Allowing the trainer/handler to keep the winning he helps produce, is that bonus. Not being a trialer some of this may be hard to understand, but sometimes not winning the placement that puts your dog in the money, doesn't mean your dog didn't put down a great performance that has the gallery raising an eyebrow at the quality and level of training your dog has performed too. So the guy operating your machine hasn't failed to perform, but today he didn't get the bonus....

When you go into a restaurant (not Mickey Dee's), and purchase that nice meal for yourself and/or your family. Do you only pay your bill as it is presented to you or do you reward the folks that help make your dining experience, a pleasurable one? Remember the restaurant is paying them a wage too.

All that said, it's not what they "have" to do. .... but it's what they "feel" they "have" to do to maintain the best in the business working for them. Helping maintain a level of pride, and ego they wish to carry with, as they play the game and enjoy our hobby. "Field Trialing" isn't for everybody, just as many other hobbies aren't for everybody. It's hard for me to understand why the guy next door puts thousands of dollars a month into that MX Cycle he races, but then again when he wins I see a lot of celebrating going on, and they say the sponsors are happy, and that pays the bills....

Just to set the record straight I don't have a professional handler/trainer, but have attempted to relay to you why they do what they do, in a way you might understand. If not, then as you say we'll just have to agree to disagree. Hope this helps clear up the why's and how's of the handler keeping the winnings......"pear"

NE Vizsla · Post by **NE Vizsla** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:37 pm

Pear thanks for the response but i just dont agree with it. Sure I believe in a reward for a job well done but not when one is expected every time a job is well done. As for tipping at a restaurant..sure i leave one even when the food or service is not so great, but what your saying is if i had a 10 dollar hamburger and all i had was a 50 dollar bill..then well the waitress did such a great job she decides to keep all the change for herself, but thats not the way it works..you would tip her not let her keep it all. Thats how i see this whole handler thing..i would have no problem giving him or her a nice tip but i would not let them keep it all just cause they did a good job this time.

Its not about the money here, i just have a problem with this whole keeping the winnings because they think they deserve it thing..when they dont win its not like you get a refund of any sort so why should they get a bonus everytime they do win.

Pear no disrespect but i just dont agree with it and I guess thats why im into Hunt Test's and not Field Trial's. Thank you for your response and yes im going to have to agree to disagree once again.

Oh and yes I do have a job as well

thanks

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:52 pm

NE V for someone who has no experience with trialing and no desire to do so you sure seem to be full of opinion on this subject.

The people trying to explain things to you on this thread are trainers/handlers like myself and a good number of people who have dogs with pro's.

In your waitress scenario the waitress is doing nothing to make you money in the future unless it's a business dinner. If her great service helped you close a deal that pocketed you a million bucks would you still be so up tight of the change for a fifty?

That's what we're talking about here. Trainers/handlers get paid to train and handle dogs at trials. When they win the big one's with your dog they are setting up a scenario that may very well make you thousands and thousands of dollars from stud and puppy fees in the future. Most of the money stakes I've seen or judged have a pay out of around 1000-1,500.00 at most to the winner. The handlers are going to do the very best job they can with each and every dog in the stake hoping to win with each of them.

If that handler increases your stud dogs earning potential by a few hundred percent by winning a few of those stakes is that 1,500.00 such a big deal?

Not only has your your stud fee has now been raised from 500.00 to 750.00 or more along with the demand for that stud will increase the more limited he wins. If we're talking a bitch instead of a dog, then of course the more winning she does the higher the demand for and corresponding asking price of her pups will be.

Remember these are not fees charged behind your back or under the table. Customers who put dogs with pro's work out such things long before (usually) they ever occur. If a client doesn't want to allow the handler to keep such winnings that's fine, they can tell their handler so ahead of time, the pro can then decide whether or not to take the dog.

No one is getting cheated on these deals both have agreed before it even comes up. As I said for people who don't want to agree to such an arrangement, there are alternatives like placing your dogs with handlers who don't mind splitting or even letting you keep the whole thing it just has to be worked out ahead of time.

Personally I probably would never put a dog with a pro that wanted to keep such winnings unless it would be agreed upon prior that those monies would be as an offset to my bill. That however is my choice, MY and therefore I would be greatly limited by how many other pro's would be willing to run dogs for me in those stakes, and I freely accept that.

I trial, but mainly I run my own dogs, or occasionally run dogs for another pro if I'm going to a trial he can't attend so like you while i may have an opinion on the subject it certainly doesn't mean as much as the opinions of those who are paying pro's to run their dogs. THis would be a good opportunity to just sit back and learn rather than continue to argue and cloud the whole until it's completely lost it's meaning.

The man wanted some specific questions answered and that's what he's getting. CR

larue · Post by **larue** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:31 pm

to myself,running trials is not about money,it is about winning and the pride of ownership that goes with that winning.
I would bet that in the vast majority of times a dog wins a stake,the owner is congradulated on the dogs performance,not the monies he got from the win.
From my perspective it is simple,I want the win.If I wanted money for the reward,I would play the lottery.
So to me,the pro can keep the prize money,and buy me a drink with it at the end of the day.
By the way,the last pro I used,put me up in his house,feed me,drove me around,for several days while I was out there watching my dog run.
If she had won some money,I doubt it would have covered the cost of a motel,ect if he had not invited me to stay with him.
I guess as the owner/pro's relationship is all about money,he should have billed me for my costs of staying with him.

NE Vizsla · Post by **NE Vizsla** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:56 pm

WildRose wrote: THis would be a good opportunity to just sit back and learn rather than continue to argue and cloud the whole until it's completely lost it's meaning.

The man wanted some specific questions answered and that's what he's getting. CR

WildRose,
Im not trying to argue and your right i dont trial...but this is a public forum so I can have a opinion. Dont try to bully me just cause i dont agree. Im sure there are some members out there that might have the same questioning as I have but because of bullys they choose not to write down what they think in fear of being jumped on, I dont mind asking questions or giving my opinion..maybe you should sitt back once in a while and learn.

Wagon and Pear, thanks for the replys..im now done with this thread just for you WildRose. Have a great Trial Career.

Post by **slistoe** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:27 pm

NE Visla I have a good tip for you. Don't hire a trial pro who keeps the winnings as a bonus. You wouldn't like them stealing you blind.

The reality is that no one wins too much. In any money stakes there are a always lots of folks ready to put their best dogs down. In reality the pro can enter 10 dogs and will have little control over which one may win that day unless he was to sabotage a particular dog to reduce it's performance. The winning dog will be the one that puts out just a little bit better than he normally would - and that a pro or anyone else cannot control that. But by having 10 quality dogs there is a good chance he will see a part of the money. The better and more consistent he can make the string of dogs he puts on the ground the better his chances are that one of them will come through and earn him a little bonus money.

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:51 am

OK guys, get on with the discussion and not what someone else thinks. You are all free to state your opinion but you don't need to try and downgrade otherpeople who have a different idea.

Ezzy

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:22 am

Yeah, I agree with ezzy. NEV has an opinion. It is different from mine and others. So what. There is room for differences here I hope.

Gun Dog Forum

Trial Procedures / Etiquette Questions

Trial Procedures / Etiquette Questions

Being correct