What holds Newb's back from Trialing?

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:10 am

RayGubernat wrote:
Birddogz wrote:I see know reason why my posts should offend anyone. They are my opinion. If you don't agree, fine. What stops many people from trialing is the pompus attitudes that many trialers have. LIke Slistoe, who says hunters don't know good dogs because they don't see enough. That is simply wrong. What about people who have done both, and stop trialing. How do they qualify?

Birddogz -

The fact that you see no reason why your posts are offensive... IS a big part of the reason.

YOU seem to be the the one who is a POMPOUS jerk with a " My way is a better way" attitude.

Sure it is your opinion, but just like (you know what), everyone has an opinion. Some of them stink worse than others.

You enjoy your sport. Obviously you enjoy your sport a great deal. That in and of itself is no reason whatsoever to pronounce your version of the sport as the VERY best that there is, as you have done and continue to do. Perhaps part of the reason is the obvious corollary to your position that you, the hunter are the very best there is also. Maybe your self esteem needs a little shoring up. Talk to Dr. Phil about that.

You thoroughly enjoy what you do. Bravo. You think it is the greatest thing in the world. Again...Bravo. You think you are the baddest hunter with some of the baddest dogs out there. Once again...Bravo.

I got a flash for you ...There are folks out there that think Olympic curling is the greatest sport in the world. I choose to disagree with that OPINION as well.

Hunting wild birds is usually one of two scenarios. It is either pretty easy because there are plenty of birds or it is darn near impossible because birds are scarce. A half decent dog will look like a world beater when there are plenty of birds. The best dog in the world won't get much done when there are no birds to be found.

You constantly throw out challenges to come out and hunt the way you hunt. I say, enter your worldbeater dogs in a thirty minute stake on planted birds. if they are really worldbeaters, that should not be a problem for them...or you. Get back to me when you do and believe it or not...I sincerely hope you and your dogs do well.

But you probably won't do that...because you are probably all talk and in the cold light of competition that is open for all to see, it ain't about who has the best story to tell.

In bird dog competitions, when judge says "Let 'em go", the BS stops because you are putting it out there for EVERYONE to see. It can be a VERY humbling experience, believe me.

Enjoy your sport as you find it. Allow others to enjoy theirs also.

RayG

I am a results based guy. Success to a hunter by definition is game harvested. That is what Webster says, not me. I love competition. What could be better competition than a wild bird limit? Not 1 day, but over and over. Why don't you leave the bird Mecca that is Delaware and come out to places that actually have wild birds to hunt. We can go first person with a limit buys dinner every night. I'll even put you up in my home. Why would any hunter worth his salt want to hunt his dogs on released birds when there are wild ones? Why would I want to compete with birds that were raised like chickens? I don't understand the thrill of a lock down point on a bird that is clueless. By the way, I never said my dogs were the best. They are good dogs. Two are geriatric, and one is young, but coming along. There are dogs that are better.

If you were in the Florida Keys and wanted to go out on a Charter fishing trip, do you book a trip with a guy who catches 1 fish per day, or the guy who fills the box consistently? I actually can't believe that this is even a discussion. When there is a bass tournament, the guy with the most weight will win. Let me reiterate that I can have a great time hunting without a limit, but all things being equal, I'll take it. I don't normally shoot birds that my dogs don't point, so that means my dogs have been successful as well.

My whole problem with trialing and trialers is that many think they know about hunting because they trial. They equate a good trial dog to a good hunting dog, and it simply isn't the case. Not saying there aren't dogs that do both, because there are. They often times think they know more about dogs than hunters, when what they know is trial dogs. If people enjoy it, that is fine. Have a blast, but don't be condescending to people who choose to use their dogs for their intended purpose. You accuse me of being pompous. I believe that is conviction, rather than pomposity. I know that hunting is the "real" deal. Dogs weren't bred for hundreds of years to trial. Can you imagine describing a trial to a peasant in 18th century France? You take birds that you have raised, then let your dogs point them, then flush them and don't kill them. HUhh? He would look at you like you were insane. Hunting is tradition that provides exercise and high quality, hormone free sustenance. As God would have it. It also provides comradery that goes back to the first human beings. Hunting is the reason that we are all here today. Meat is what caused our brains to grow exponentially around a million years ago. Hunting wild animals is magical. It is FAR more important than trialing. I'm not saying that trialing shouldn't be enjoyed, but one must be realistic to its relevance in the grand scheme. I look at trialing as the tail of the dog. The dog should wag the tail, not vice versa. Again, enjoy what ever you like, just be realistic about its importance. Trialing is a game. Hunting is much more.

If you choose not to believe me, there is nothing I can do about it. It is actually a compliment. When people don't believe you, it usually is because they can't fathom that kind of success.

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:11 pm

By the way, the attacks that I receive may give you some indication as to why more people don't trial.

Coveyrise64 · Post by **Coveyrise64** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:22 pm

Birddogz wrote:By the way, the attacks that I receive may give you some indication as to why more people don't trial.

You would think........had the same thought myself.:roll:

Coveyrise64

PkerStr8Tail · Post by **PkerStr8Tail** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:27 pm

I was that Newb to FT three years ago. My perspective on field trialing is AF horseback FT. I grew up in South Dakota and spent the first 22 years of my life hunting there, so I know wild bird hunting at it's best. I have also tried NAVHDA, NSTRA, AKC Hunt Tests over the years before trying Horseback FT. I have done the put and take hunt clubs and so on. So the opinion that field trialers have never wild bird hunted and therefore can't give a decent opinion on FT dogs verse hunting dogs is not a fact. I would say almost all field trialers probably started wild bird hunting as a child and later moved up to FT later on.

I was that Newb to FT three years ago. My perspective on field trialing is AF horseback FT. I grew up in South Dakota and spent the first 22 years of my life hunting there, so I know wild bird hunting at its best. I have also tried NAVHDA, NSTRA, AKC Hunt Tests over the years before trying Horseback FT. I have done the put and take hunt clubs and so on. So the opinion that field trialers have never wild bird hunted and therefore can't give a decent opinion on FT dogs verse hunting dogs is not a fact. I would say almost all field trialers probably started wild bird hunting as a child and later moved up to FT later on.

Back to the original question. I broke into the FT sport basically due to the fact that a Pro was willing to take me under his wing and teach me the game. Basically a Mentor. Without that fact, it would have never happened for me. So I think that is a big factor. Are the people involved in the FT sport willing to mentor newbies? In some cases, I am sure they are but I would think there could be more.

People can deny the politics side of the judging all they want, but the fact is it politics are real and there. In AF FT the judges are not certified or governed or whatever term you want to use to make sure there is a consistant judging standard as well as neutrality. The judging selection is based on whoever the club can get to judge. Pro's judge amatuer events and amatuers judge Pro's events. I don't see this being addressed anytime soon because most involved in the sport don't believe it happens. This one doesn't keep me from being involved but I could see it turning off some people new to the sport.

My personal soap box revolves around the Pro vs Amateur status. I have heard many arguments as to why the rules are the way they are, but I think this issue is the second biggest reason new people don't take to trialing behind the #1 reason which is expenses. A Pro essentially is anyone that takes money or things of monetary value for training or handling a dog. So let's look at a couple situations. Say you are a weekend hunter that has never trialed, but trained many of your own dogs. Your buddy asks you to work his dog and get it to retrieve for him. He pays you to do this. You are now a Pro Field Trialer. Now contrast that to an Amateur that has never been paid to train anyone else's dog, but has trialed for 30 years. He has won championships and comes to trials with all the fancy equipment and 10 dog string of which most are Champions. That guy is still an amateur. Now I ask you....You are a newbie pondering if you should spend significant money to start trialing and you know nothing about the sport. Someone says see that guy and the 10-15 other guys just like him. That's who you will be competing against as an amateur with no knowledge. Now there are stupid people like me that says...ok....let me go get my behind kicked, but I don't think most are willing to do so.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:36 pm

Birddogz,

It sure would be nice to be able to give you the benefit of the doubt. Education isn't wisdom and your words dissected would be fodder for days or months of clowning you. It is really hard to be nice to you. Your emphatic statements and opinions are offensive I darn sure understand hunting ... I will save you the bio, that is the launching pad for folks to wonder why you try so hard to tell em what you know. You have been banned from sites, a number of well meaning normally polite people go out of their way to tell you that your opinions are irrelevant. I get it, its frustrating probably hurts. Look in the mirror and figure it out.

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:54 pm

You see, if my opinion bothers people, I must carry a tremendous amount of importance in their lives. You see the opposite of love isn't hate it is indifference. If I get under someone's skin for having an opinion, then it is their fault for allowing me to upset them. Allowing my opinion to upset them so much is actually comical. By the way, people have PMed me numerous times when these discussions come up, and they say that the way I am treated is exactly what is wrong with FTing. These are people who have trialed for years and decided it just wasn't worth it.

Education isn't wisdom. Well, I agree with that, but often times that is a phrase used to discount education as the person they are speaking with has the superior education.

I personally don't care how educated someone is, I judge a person by how they treat me. What have I said that was false? You seem to go after me with no apparent reason. You disagree with my opinion that hunters know a thing or two about dogs? That is what you are saying? Because that is all I have said on this forum. That, and that FTing is a game to be enjoyed, but never to be taken more seriously than hunting. You disagree with that?

Dave Quindt · Post by **Dave Quindt** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:55 pm

Birddogz wrote:

My whole problem with trialing and trialers is that many think they know about hunting because they trial.

Ok, after 4 pages and 150+ posts on a subject I am very passionate about, you finally got me to bite!

Please name one trialer on this site who "knows about hunting because they trial". Just one.

Earlier in this thread you said

I have hunted with dogs that have placed in numerous trials, and watch them blow pheasants out of a field at 400 yards.

You've made these comments before, about the FT winning and champion dogs you've hunted over. Please name one of them. Just one.

Either back up your claims or go away.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:07 pm

Your opinions of field trials are irrelevant...see Daves questions above. I will say again I am sure you know something about hunting dogs...and I know a number of hunters who know a great deal. ...and I suppose it is all conjecture but I wonder how many PM's are out there laughing at you? You are only under people's skin because you create circular arguments and you are abrasive, please don't get any romantic notion its more than that.

BTW a number of my notions have changed greatly in 18 months of trialing and my dogs have benefited greatly after 40 years of hunting experience. That is from someone who has been on both sides of the fence.

Post by **topher40** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:17 pm

Clean it up, I dont want this thread turned into a boxing ring. Get it back on Topic as to my original question or I will take my ball and go home and lock it.

JKP · Post by **JKP** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:19 pm

Starting to get heated now....trialing has its place and it has enriched the genetic pool of many breeds...hunting or not...that fact is indisputable. I think as a breeder, any pursuit by serious folks who are willing to discuss their dogs up or down and let the dogs speak for themselves....they have my respect. However, when titles or numbers become the justification for everything, I'm going the other way...there are just too many important things that aren't on the score sheet or revealed by the title. Take it for what its worth, use it and be thankful so many folks are willing to spend their money and take their "licks".

I only ever have one problem with FT folk...and that is when they feel that theirs is the holy grail of dogdom and that somehow the rest of us are playing around with second class goods....that seems to come through pretty loud and clear from a few FT enthusiasts...for the most part, these folks are pretty tolerable

PkerStr8Tail · Post by **PkerStr8Tail** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:22 pm

There is an ESPN show host (don't remember which one it was) that had a commercial for his show that gave some advice. One of the advice items said, " I don't let people with no life ruin mine, that is why I don't do message boards."

That advice seemed to fit in this case. Kind of sad, but there may be some truth in that one.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:32 pm

Pardon me, but when I think of trialing I include all the trials and tests; NAVHDA, UKC, NSTRA, even AKC Hunting Tests, etc. not just horseback pointing dog field trials.

Some are less competitive, but then so are all the others, save the big dance at Ames this month.

Why is it that the non-trialers always assume trialers never hunt?

I have averaged over 100 days hunting for the last 38 years, I pass up major field trials to hunt, I hunt the same dogs I trial. Now there are a lot of folks that know more than I do about dogs and hunting, but my ignorance is sure not from a lack of experience.

I do not look down my nose at hunting dogs, they are what I own and love.

So to answer the question that started the thread, I can think of no reason for people to hold back from trialing,

Neil

PkerStr8Tail · Post by **PkerStr8Tail** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:33 pm

JKP wrote: I only ever have one problem with FT folk...and that is when they feel that theirs is the holy grail of dogdom and that somehow the rest of us are playing around with second class goods....that seems to come through pretty loud and clear from a few FT enthusiasts...for the most part, these folks are pretty tolerable

I can see your point, but to not see the reverse of that argument seems one sided. People that don't field trial and only hunt come with the attitude that they have the best dogs in the country but choose not to FT them at times as well. Some of that comes from your only experiences being with the hunting dogs you owned. I once just hunted my dogs and also thought I had the greatest dogs in the country. Then I got into FTs and saw some dogs that were in fact a tremendous step above anything I had ever seen or owned. This doesn't mean all FT dogs are the best to every live and those that choose to only hunt their dogs don't have great dogs as well. I would venture to guess that most all FT folks have seen both FT dogs and personal hunting dogs. How many of the people that choose to only hunt their dogs have ever seen the FT dogs that they are so sure are no better than their own dogs? Before you get all up in arms, I think everyone should enjoy their dogs no matter that they do with them or what they accomplish.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:38 pm

Such is the trouble with the written word no? Topher, you must admit that you have seen the biggest reasons that people don't attend and inter mixed has been some age old arguments for sure. Other than time and money the comfort of new participants is the biggest rub, two factors go into that. How aggressively a new person is willing to pursue a sport, and or the skill set, desire, awareness and motivation of an all volunteer work force to reach out and maintain a service level.

Post by **topher40** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:47 pm

Again, I was wondering about the people THAT ACTUALLY SHOW THE INTEREST. These are the folks that actually call for more information and seem to want to attend. I think I have found my answers, same as I thought. This thread has actually been a wonderful "tool" also! I have received calls from 4-5 new folks that are wanting to attend and enter my trial. Thanks for all the good arguments, seems to have peaked some interest!

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:48 pm

PkerStr8Tail:
Are their any organizations that have categories for new people that wouldn't put them against ten year veterans (pros or amateurs) Are the fun trials going to have the same pros also?

JKP · Post by **JKP** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:49 pm

I can see your point, but to not see the reverse of that argument seems one sided. People that don't field trial and only hunt come with the attitude that they have the best dogs in the country but choose not to FT them at times as well. Some of that comes from your only experiences being with the hunting dogs you owned. I once just hunted my dogs and also thought I had the greatest dogs in the country. Then I got into FTs and saw some dogs that were in fact a tremendous step above anything I had ever seen or owned. This doesn't mean all FT dogs are the best to every live and those that choose to only hunt their dogs don't have great dogs as well. I would venture to guess that most all FT folks have seen both FT dogs and personal hunting dogs. How many of the people that choose to only hunt their dogs have ever seen the FT dogs that they are so sure are no better than their own dogs? Before you get all up in arms, I think everyone should enjoy their dogs no matter that they do with them or what they accomplish.

Point well taken...I think we all should see some dogs in other venues...just too little time....and then there's the lawn to mow too!!!

The big fallacy in the whole debate is.....good???....best???...by who's standards??? I like a foot hunting dog 50-150 yds ahead of me depending on conditions....so why would I spend my time in a venue where I'm not going to be competitive??
It just as important to me that a dog go to water on a tough day and be willing to go 3-400 yds to swim down that cripple...that's a great dog to me....maybe meaningless to someone else. I have grouse hunting friends that want their dogs within 75 yds...cover is just too thick....you shoot 'em on the edges or not at all...that's a great dog to them. We're all entitled to the "great" dog that we want. The one thing that all great dogs have is desire and manners....haven't got those, you're not seeing game. But the definition of great is as wide and varied as you can imagine....and it often has nothing to do with FT.

snips · Post by **snips** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:52 pm

Wow, why do field trialers and hunters ALWAYS want to argue? BORING....

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:59 pm

Snips...guilty as charged....and I am a hunter real field trialers wouldn't call me one yet. I will say one thing I believe as a newby I think a hunter and his dog when they understand the game and what broke means has the upper hand.

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:06 pm

snips wrote:Wow, why do field trialers and hunters ALWAYS want to argue? BORING....

I've got dogs I just hunt, because they don't have it to trial. Not yet anyway, maybe down the road. Not saying thaqt they're not good bird dogs, but many because of range or confidence. They're young. Then I've got dogs that I just trial and hunt. So when I'm not trialing I'm hunting. Or the dogs are, I'm along for the walk. Great isn't it. Fact of the matter most people don't understand field trials, I've offered to help. On another note if you lose your job and get a new one. Are you scared to go? Yes, get over it. Trials are the same way, it's the unknown. Come and watch, I'll help in any way possible.

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:50 pm

JKP wrote:
I can see your point, but to not see the reverse of that argument seems one sided. People that don't field trial and only hunt come with the attitude that they have the best dogs in the country but choose not to FT them at times as well. Some of that comes from your only experiences being with the hunting dogs you owned. I once just hunted my dogs and also thought I had the greatest dogs in the country. Then I got into FTs and saw some dogs that were in fact a tremendous step above anything I had ever seen or owned. This doesn't mean all FT dogs are the best to every live and those that choose to only hunt their dogs don't have great dogs as well. I would venture to guess that most all FT folks have seen both FT dogs and personal hunting dogs. How many of the people that choose to only hunt their dogs have ever seen the FT dogs that they are so sure are no better than their own dogs? Before you get all up in arms, I think everyone should enjoy their dogs no matter that they do with them or what they accomplish.
Point well taken...I think we all should see some dogs in other venues...just too little time....and then there's the lawn to mow too!!!

The big fallacy in the whole debate is.....good???....best???...by who's standards??? I like a foot hunting dog 50-150 yds ahead of me depending on conditions....so why would I spend my time in a venue where I'm not going to be competitive??
It just as important to me that a dog go to water on a tough day and be willing to go 3-400 yds to swim down that cripple...that's a great dog to me....maybe meaningless to someone else. I have grouse hunting friends that want their dogs within 75 yds...cover is just too thick....you shoot 'em on the edges or not at all...that's a great dog to them. We're all entitled to the "great" dog that we want. The one thing that all great dogs have is desire and manners....haven't got those, you're not seeing game. But the definition of great is as wide and varied as you can imagine....and it often has nothing to do with FT.

This is the best post on this thread. That is why when I have been told that I don't know what a truly good dog is, I laugh.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:32 pm

Birddogz wrote:]I am a results based guy. Success to a hunter by definition is game harvested. That is what Webster says, not me. I love competition. What could be better competition than a wild bird limit? Not 1 day, but over and over.

This leaves me with but one thing to say, I feel oh so sorry for you. You are missing so much in your life.

Ezzy

Coveyrise64 · Post by **Coveyrise64** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:50 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
Birddogz wrote:]I am a results based guy. Success to a hunter by definition is game harvested. That is what Webster says, not me. I love competition. What could be better competition than a wild bird limit? Not 1 day, but over and over.
This leaves me with but one thing to say, I feel oh so sorry for you. You are missing so much in your life.

Ezzy

The trouble is, some on the other side of the fence are in the same boat. You should feel just as sorry for them too.

Coveyrise64

JKP · Post by **JKP** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:06 pm

There are trials and there are trials...there doesn't seem to be much discussion on that. I judge dogs on the difficult situations....sharpies after the middle of Oct.....grouse on a windy day....hard running rooster in thin CRP. I think these are the measure of a dog better than any test or competition on "artfully" placed game. That said, there are some trials out there that can't be seen as anything else but hunting wild birds, cover trials, trials on prairie birds... and I don't see how anyone could make the case they're different.

As long as we don't kid ourselves about what we're seeing, how can any of it be bad? Anytime a dog lifts its head and shows me honest birds with some style from 50 yds, whether that's at a test or in the CRP of ND, shows control/manners and then puts that bird in my hand when I say so.....that's a dang good dog!!! no matter where it came from....and respect is due. Same when a dog can keep pressuring some old big wily cockbird, relocating and circling, trying to get that bird to hunker down...that's a great dog...a great piece of work and I only hope I don't miss that bird for the dog's sake!!! I think we we can agree on that....

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:47 pm

Coveyrise64 wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:
Birddogz wrote:]I am a results based guy. Success to a hunter by definition is game harvested. That is what Webster says, not me. I love competition. What could be better competition than a wild bird limit? Not 1 day, but over and over.
This leaves me with but one thing to say, I feel oh so sorry for you. You are missing so much in your life.

Ezzy
The trouble is, some on the other side of the fence are in the same boat. You should feel just as sorry for them too.

Coveyrise64

Coveyrise, When I start judging the quality of the hunt by how many bids I shot just shoot me to and roll me into the hole.

Ezzy

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:54 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
Birddogz wrote:]I am a results based guy. Success to a hunter by definition is game harvested. That is what Webster says, not me. I love competition. What could be better competition than a wild bird limit? Not 1 day, but over and over.
This leaves me with but one thing to say, I feel oh so sorry for you. You are missing so much in your life.

Ezzy

Nice way to cut out what I say after that in my post. I say the most important part is who you hunt with. All I am saying is that it is more fun to be successful in the field, then to be skunked. When I fish I like to catch fish. When I hunt, I like to limit out. I would think that would be a common thought process. Our entire American way of life is based on results. I am not saying that harvesting game is the only way I am happy, but it is certainly in the equation. Most times people who say they don't care about the fish they catch or the game they harvest, they aren't successful at doing so. Just what I have noticed. Just like the guys who don't keep score in golf. They often times are horrible golfers.

Winchey · Post by **Winchey** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:17 pm

I am still waiting for you to answer Mr. Quindt's question. Do you think they will enter that perfect feild trial you have been working so hard on organizing?

PkerStr8Tail · Post by **PkerStr8Tail** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:29 pm

nikegundog wrote:PkerStr8Tail:
Are their any organizations that have categories for new people that wouldn't put them against ten year veterans (pros or amateurs) Are the fun trials going to have the same pros also?

As far as fun trials, I don't know of any in the AF FT venue. At least there are none on my area. Maybe other areas of the country have them. There is not a way for a true amateur to enter the sport and have a legit chance. You have to "pay your dues", take your lumps, stick it out and eventually you can get to the winner circle. The problem is that if the average person sees that they will have to climb Mt. Everest right out of the gate, they will probably find something that is easier. Of course if you talk to the long timers, they will say, if we held beginner trials there wouldn't be any or enough entrants. This seems to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. I would love to see the sport of field trialing grow and expand, but there would have to be some long standing paradigms that would have to change and that seems unlikely.

Coveyrise64 · Post by **Coveyrise64** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:24 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
Coveyrise64 wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:This leaves me with but one thing to say, I feel oh so sorry for you. You are missing so much in your life.

Ezzy
The trouble is, some on the other side of the fence are in the same boat. You should feel just as sorry for them too.

Coveyrise64
Coveyrise, When I start judging the quality of the hunt by how many birds I shot just shoot me to and roll me into the hole.

Ezzy

You know what I was talking about, but in case you don't. If a trialer judges the success of their day by the number of placements earned then I feel sorry for them. By the way, are you a Moderator or Instigator......I'm having a little trouble telling the difference by some of your replys.

Coveyrise64

Post by **topher40** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:35 pm

Coveyrise-

Come to a trial, then call names. Until then your only calling names, and dont know anything about the trialing subject. Case in point your last post. What are your dogs out of anyways? Just curious..... they are nice looking.

Post by **slistoe** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:46 pm

Coveyrise64 wrote: If a trialer judges the success of their day by the number of placements earned then I feel sorry for them.

That is why the fellow with the dog that is, by all accounts, leading the race for the $1000 purse will run his horse to a lather to scout for the competitor whose dog is scorching the ground, calling point on the limb find.

I have not participated in any competitive endeavor that was so strongly ingrained with Sportsmen.

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:50 pm

Why is it when someone shares their experience with FTing in a negative light they are immediately chastised? My goodness you guys sure "tow the company line to the hilt." I have been around a lot of trialers that would have a beer with you and tell you story after story of what was wrong with them. Len Forbush who trialed GSPs would tell me lots of them. So did Wes Vickers. There have been others as well, but they are still trialing, so I won't mention their names. This forum must only attract FTers that like to whine when anyone is at all critical.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:04 pm

Slistoe,

I have a two year old Britt that was running in the ABC chukar championship last week. It was a 1 hour AA limited stake with 26 starters. A pro and his wife scout had 8 or 10 dogs in the stake. While running together our dogs cast to a mountain that was on a turn. My scout was out of sight looking over a ridge back, one dog came off the mountain to the front down a ridge and we didn't know which. The pro scout followed up the ridge as we went by and found my dog over the top 6 or 8 hundred yards behind our current spot. She signaled us and waited until I got to the dog before returning to her deal. She knew the dog was young and didn't want to ride off and leave him. They make their living training and handling, I guess this is how you build that kind of reputation.

Coveyrise64 · Post by **Coveyrise64** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:21 pm

topher40 wrote:Coveyrise-

Come to a trial, then call names. Until then your only calling names, and dont know anything about the trialing subject. Case in point your last post. What are your dogs out of anyways? Just curious..... they are nice looking.

Don't be so quick to judge, that seems to be a big problem here........sometimes you guys are your own worst enemy.

He is supposed to be a Moderator by the way but by not laying down the ground rules on this thread then his comments take on a different meaning. When you posted the topic you knew what the debate was going to turn into, it happens every time.

I've played about every game out there with some degree of success and still participate or help at Trials, Hunt Test, NAVHDA Tests, and plant birds for the NSTRA bunch. In 2010 I traveled almost 6,400 miles to different events and another 14,000 miles either hunting or training. How many people do you know that would drive 250 miles just to gun at a Hunt Test, spend the weekend in Lees Summitt to handle a couple of dogs in the Amatuer for a friend, or stand in the pouring rain planting birds at Howard, KS after my brace? Do I know some good guys that trial? Heck Yeah I do and they are at the next Hunt Test helping out, wanting to get together to train, or meeting up for a hunt, I call them friends. Know some of the rock throwers too. Whether I participate or not I enjoy the company and seeing the dogs. Do I drink the koolaide? NO.... Am I appreciative of what trialers have done for my breed? YES, to a certain degree, I think my bloodlines say that..... Do I have to bow to them because I choose to hunt or not participate?......HECK NO!

Can I call names now?.........

Dr N's CJ on two of them and Ruger Weltmeister/Shooting Starr's Bonnie Girls on the other.

Coveyrise64

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:50 pm

Kool Aid? I don't blame you Coveyrise first trial they try to serve me Kool Aid and I am out.

Coveyrise64 · Post by **Coveyrise64** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:04 pm

Chukar12 wrote:Kool Aid? I don't blame you Coveyrise first trial they try to serve me Kool Aid and I am out.

You never know what they'll be serving up, could be sweet as wine or it could make you gag. Sometimes its best not to even sample.......

Coveyrise64

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:28 pm

Coveyrise64 wrote:
topher40 wrote:Coveyrise-

Come to a trial, then call names. Until then your only calling names, and dont know anything about the trialing subject. Case in point your last post. What are your dogs out of anyways? Just curious..... they are nice looking.
Don't be so quick to judge, that seems to be a big problem here........sometimes you guys are your own worst enemy.

He is supposed to be a Moderator by the way but by not laying down the ground rules on this thread then his comments take on a different meaning. When you posted the topic you knew what the debate was going to turn into, it happens every time.

I've played about every game out there with some degree of success and still participate or help at Trials, Hunt Test, NAVHDA Tests, and plant birds for the NSTRA bunch. In 2010 I traveled almost 6,400 to different events and another 14,000 miles either hunting or training. How many people do you know that would drive 250 miles just to gun at a Hunt Test, spend the weekend in Lees Summitt to handle a couple of dogs in the Amatuer for a friend, or stand in the pouring rain planting birds at Howard, KS after my brace? Do I know some good guys that trial? Heck Yeah I do and they are at the next Hunt Test helping out, wanting to get together to train, or meeting up for a hunt, I call them friends. Know some of the rock throwers too. Whether I participate or not I enjoy the company and seeing the dogs. Do I drink the koolaide? NO.... Am I appreciative of what trialers have done for my breed? YES, to a certain degree, I think my bloodlines say that..... Do I have to bow to them because I choose to hunt or not participate?......HECK NO!

Can I call names now?.........

Dr N's CJ on two of them and Ruger Weltmeister/Shooting Starr's Bonnie Girls on the other.

Coveyrise64

Coveyrise seems like the kind of FTer guys I have spoken with that were honest. They would have a beer and BS with you. Tell it like it is. Some others seem as if they are reading a cue card. The answers are always the same, and robotic. CR seems like a person who is his own man, and doesn't believe something just because someone tells him. Thank the good Lord for sanity.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:29 pm

You know what I was talking about, but in case you don't. If a trialer judges the success of their day by the number of placements earned then I feel sorry for them. By the way, are you a Moderator or Instigator......I'm having a little trouble telling the difference by some of your replys.

Thank you, think that is what we all try to do, moderate in a fashion that no one realizes we are. Not too hard to do here since we all pretty well know the rules and play within the them.

Like your ideas of trials as I often have the same problem when they start telling me you have to trial to prove the quality of your dog. I have done the same as you as far as partaking but I have never had the where-with-all to get too heavily involved and have found my enjoyment in the upland field. But I fully understand the thrill of running your dog and winning.

Ezzy

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:34 pm

See now CR and BD are allies...that is progress. K-Nine and I cooked and cleaned the tent last week.

....We are the world....We are the children

Coveyrise64 · Post by **Coveyrise64** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:41 pm

Chukar12 wrote:K-Nine and I cooked and cleaned the tent last week.

And here I held her in such high regards....Sounds like you two set-up house.....a bit to much information for me. I guess I'm gonna have to have a talk with her.

Coveyrise64

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:52 pm

Her virtue is intact....it was the community cook tent. BUT you may inquire about her heater operation....

Coveyrise64 · Post by **Coveyrise64** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:03 pm

Chukar12 wrote:BUT you may inquire about her heater operation....

I'm not touching that one, sounds like a trap. I might be a little on the slow side but I'm not stupid.

Coveyrise64

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:07 pm

...Coward

Coveyrise64 · Post by **Coveyrise64** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:03 pm

Chukar12 wrote:...Coward

The heater isn't fixed and she's using it again this weekend.

Coveyrise64

V-John · Post by **V-John** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:12 am

ezzy333 wrote:
Birddogz wrote:]I am a results based guy. Success to a hunter by definition is game harvested. That is what Webster says, not me. I love competition. What could be better competition than a wild bird limit? Not 1 day, but over and over.
This leaves me with but one thing to say, I feel oh so sorry for you. You are missing so much in your life.

Ezzy

+1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

V-John · Post by **V-John** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:16 am

I've met Terry (coveyrise) and the guy is legit. I've been at the same trial as him, seen him drive four-six hours to hang out at a seminar, and know he runs dogs in NAVHDA.

Great guy.
Great dogs.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:51 am

V-John wrote:I've met Terry (coveyrise) and the guy is legit. I've been at the same trial as him, seen him drive four-six hours to hang out at a seminar, and know he runs dogs in NAVHDA.

Great guy.
Great dogs.

+1

V-John · Post by **V-John** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:56 am

ACooper wrote:
V-John wrote:I've met Terry (coveyrise) and the guy is legit. I've been at the same trial as him, seen him drive four-six hours to hang out at a seminar, and know he runs dogs in NAVHDA.

Great guy.
Great dogs.
+1

Just don't tell him I said that.

BillGraves · Post by **BillGraves** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:01 am

Time to train, space to train, money to travel, time away from home, a stubborn dog...

Kmack · Post by **Kmack** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:17 am

This thread is an example of why I like a Politics Section. People can go in there and fight and argue about all the stuff that's not nearly as important as the dogs. I hate seeing all of these arguments based on what each of us does with our dogs. I would bet that most of the folks on here would find some reason to appreciate each others' dogs and the games they play given the right introduction.

Now, get back at each others' throats...