Gun Dog Forum

A pic of Ben for the folks on here.

Interesting thread, Rob. I like Lola, she is a very nice bitch, I am sure her litter mate can be as nice as she is. I don' t know squat about pointer lines, but Ben looks and sounds like a nice dog, and is a National CH. But I like what Rich says, maybe think about a "western dog", maybe his Ben, I know you want something different, but you have seen dogs out of him recently and he is a very proven dog competitively and hunting. I don't think you have anything to loose by doing a breeding to this dog if you do. I know you probably don't have much time so you better make a decision quick. Good luck to ya.

Mat

P.S. Brandon, when we going to start training dogs? Boomer and I need some help to get ready to run in GD.

Chasin' Mearns wrote:A pic of Ben for the folks on here.

He sure is a good looking dog.

Rich Heaton wrote: Get an AA Spinone,,,, then you'll have something a little different.

Rob,

Not trying to change your mind on what you want to do. But, what about something out West?

Lori Steinshouer is out in Nevada i believe. I would say she's running stuff that can handle the rock and terrain out there. I believe she ran a dog called Redrock High Country in the AA Nat'l a couple years back. I don't know her or her dogs. But, it was just a thought.

Or maybe some of Rich Heaton's stuff. He runs out in that country all the time. He seems to have well bred dogs. Hunts and does some winning in trials out there.

It's just a thought. Not trying to persuade you one way or the other.

Good luck! Hope the littermate is nice as you want.

BB

I've seen a few dogs blow pads or get cut out hunting chukars. Probably just by chance by they weren't the Pointers I've had good pads on all the dogs I've owned. We've endured 3 and 4 day hunts but no week long tests. (Dang, I gotta figure out how to get that much time off work.)

I know I sure wouldn't pass up the chance to breed to a NFC if I had a female already across country in his neighborhood. You will have plenty of time to raise a couple of more litters from dogs in your area if she turns out to be the producer you are hoping for.

Ezzy

I have had two dogs off of Ben. I sold one for running to big and I still have one (Coop) that will never be for sale. If I were in your position I would not hesitate to breed to him. The one I sold was off of Ru Ch Wanna Be Barbie and the one I like is off of a littermate to Honky Tonk Highrise. The only thing I don't like about Coop is that he is a poop eater. If you would like some pictures of him or have any other concerns pm me. I would like to add one more thing and that is Tin Soldier would also be a great way to go in the future. I have also had a dog off of him and from what I have seen and heard he throws smart pups with a ton of natural ability. Hope this helps a little.

Ron

I gotta say something about the Western Chukar dog. I have two dogs from the east , well mid west to most, east of me though. These two came from flat land. Both of these have turned out to very excellent chukar hunters. I have never had a pad or foot issue stop my dogs from hunting. Yes they will get cut up and rip a toenail but it rarely slows them down. I have hunted every weekend since the opening of the season here in Utah. My Buddy dog will hunt all day as long as he can in the most nasiest cliffs I can put him in.
So to say Western dogs have an edge over easten dogs in Chukar terrain is not what I have seen. I believe it's conditioning to the type of terrain and birds they will be hunting. But I am talking about GSP's not pointers

Dirtysteve wrote:So to say Western dogs have an edge over easten dogs in Chukar terrain is not what I have seen. I believe it's conditioning to the type of terrain and birds they will be hunting. But I am talking about GSP's not pointers

I agree 100% and the breed does'nt matter.

Ron

Good points. I only wish my conditioning was as good as the dogs

Ron R wrote:

Dirtysteve wrote:So to say Western dogs have an edge over easten dogs in Chukar terrain is not what I have seen. I believe it's conditioning to the type of terrain and birds they will be hunting. But I am talking about GSP's not pointers

I agree 100% and the breed does'nt matter.

Ron

I agree that conditioning plays a big role but the way that a dog carries itself is equally important as well. You can have a dog with good conditioning that pounds the ground and runs off his front that no matter what you do(aside from booting) is going to tear up his front feet. I do not believe that this will show itself anywhere but out here in the West in the rocks when run for extended hunt periods. All other factors aside the dog has to have the correct gait to be able to withstand the type of bird hunting that I do.

You know...... worse than all of this.

I have to deal with the fact that her name is Tina and all I can think about is this.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSdVTPsNhbE

Tina! Come get some ham!

I knew a girl name Tina once.......or twice, heck maybe it was three times

The Western Dog thing,,, yea pads are an issue for sure,,,, but I think is a per dog thing. I was referring to more muscle and joint type stuff,,,,, certain lines IMO are more prone to ACL tears, career ending shoulder injuries or a gate that handle the country,,, etc. Also got to take into account the extreme weather we have,,,, we hunt in real hot and real cold. Alot of bloodlines kinda of lean one way or the other but not both.

Rob,,,, of course you heard of the Stop on a Dime,,, he could do it all and was a super tough dog,,,,, faults: couldn't hold on to him had zero come and go. Spectre Sam and Spectre Pete,,,, great dogs alot of birddogs, stamina, tough, can't lose them,,,,,, but they both hated the cold.

My suggestions would be Kelley's Laser Eye, Spectre Pete, Idaho's Clean Sweep. The reason,,, your prospective market is going to be out here and that's what will sell to the field trialers and they are proven dogs out here,,, all qualified for the Nationals.

I remembered hearing about Brush Country Spectre from Lou and went googling. Found this. http://www.americanfield.com/Pages/Spectre.html .

I have a young male off Attitude's High Finance and a MIller/GuardRail female. He was a little slow coming on from the start, but at 11 months old he really started to click. He is as good as I have ever seen at a year old. Going to run him next month in an open puppy stake. He has alot of go, but listens extremely well.

I would not hesitate to breed to him. I think he will be a great sire if he is promoted and bred to some really good females.

Rich Heaton wrote:My suggestions would be Kelley's Laser Eye, Spectre Pete, Idaho's Clean Sweep. The reason,,, your prospective market is going to be out here and that's what will sell to the field trialers and they are proven dogs out here,,, all qualified for the Nationals.

I looked around a little and saw that the Kelley dogs which have been mentioned as coming from the Arkansas from from http://www.ranchonekennels.com/ That Yastremski dog has the style (at least in the picture). Which likely comes from the Fiddler stuff. I like that. Does Kelley have a website? Out of curiosity I would like to see what they have. Where does Kelley live?

And as long as I'm stirrin' the pot a little..... my perspective market is going to be field trialers. Right? Sure I want pups to go to Field Trialers. It will be fun to see what they can do. But I can think of only one or two trialers in our area that aren't hunters first. We all want good bird dogs. And to further stir the pot pups like this could work out for all kinds of trialing. For me... if the dog handles nice and doesn't run crazy big, I can run it in NSTRA. Bigger running? Let's play AKC or AF. What I'm getting at is that pups like this could be useful to and desirable to a wide range of people.

Why not breed to High Fianance now and get the next breeding out of the male of your choice, by the way I take it the female is young enough unless the male you,ve got picked out won't be young enough.
Best of both worlds!

Rob,my pointer is a half bro to Yastremski. Cannon for a nose,crazy bird finder,as tough as they come and loads of style.

12 Volt Man wrote:For me... if the dog handles nice and doesn't run crazy big, I can run it in NSTRA. Bigger running? Let's play AKC or AF. What I'm getting at is that pups like this could be useful to and desirable to a wide range of people

So basically you really don't have a goal on what you are trying to produce but you will change the game to fit the dog? Remember all in good fun,,,, bet ya wish I was on the UBD don't ya?

Rich Heaton wrote:

12 Volt Man wrote:For me... if the dog handles nice and doesn't run crazy big, I can run it in NSTRA. Bigger running? Let's play AKC or AF. What I'm getting at is that pups like this could be useful to and desirable to a wide range of people

So basically you really don't have a goal on what you are trying to produce but you will change the game to fit the dog? Remember all in good fun,,,, bet ya wish I was on the UBD don't ya?

Exactly (sort of), I'm out to prove that a good dog can play whatever game you want. I hope for big run. That opens the most possibilities. But it's a heck of a lot easier to shorten up a dog than to try and increase it's range.

also...... We'd love to have you over on UBD.

bet ya wish I was on the UBD don't ya?

Rich, stay right here. We got enough of the Idaho riff raff there

12 Volt Man wrote:But it's a heck of a lot easier to shorten up a dog than to try and increase it's range.

Man hate to do it,,,, but I would much rather push'em then pull'em. Easy to add range much harder to shorten them up and ever trust'em.

Oh man, do we have to disagree on everything? At least we both like Pointers right?

Back to the real problem here.

Her name is Tina.

"Tina, Come get some Ham!"




How can I ever feed her without yelling that?

Rimrock wrote:Rob,my pointer is a half bro to Yastremski. Cannon for a nose,crazy bird finder,as tough as they come and loads of style.

Ooooweee! He definitely looks the part!

I'd take a look at one of your Ben pups if you do the do. I really like Chasin Mearn's Ben female, having hunted behind her and seeing her in competition. She has that snappy, effortless gate that I enjoy and a huge nose. I really like fiddler when its crossed to elhew, especially when the fiddler comes through Joe Shadow, like with Ben.

Rimrock is your dog sire Always Late Jake or is his dam I B Lonestar? I owned and campaigned Star with Craig Thompson. Star and Yaz were both extreme stylisht on point. I am also one of the breeders of Yazstremski so I keep an eye on his winning offspring. Craig also has some young dogs coming on from Yaz and I B Missing, Missy came from one of our breedings. Craig is honest and real good to deal with.

Big Dave wrote:Rimrock is your dog sire Always Late Jake or is his dam I B Lonestar? I owned and campaigned Star with Craig Thompson. Star and Yaz were both extreme stylisht on point. I am also one of the breeders of Yazstremski so I keep an eye on his winning offspring. Craig also has some young dogs coming on from Yaz and I B Missing, Missy came from one of our breedings. Craig is honest and real good to deal with.

He Is Always Late Jake/ I B Georgia

Attitude's High Finance has issues that a breeder needs to be aware of before breeding to him. If you have questions PM me.

Glad to be back!

Glad you are back. Miss your posts and hearing about those long tail shorthairs doing the UT. Really I always liked the way you think.
Rick

Yawallac wrote:Attitude's High Finance has issues that a breeder needs to be aware of before breeding to him. If you have questions PM me.

Glad to be back!

Were you gone?......ha ha ha..Sorry Ross coul'nt resist....good to see ya again

Chip

Yea I knew a good Attitude debate and you'd be chomping at the bit to get in the game. How's plantation life?

Here you go Rob.......

Lookin' good CM.

12 Volt Man wrote:Lookin' good CM.

I think Gigolo is more impressive looking than Ben. Many things to consider on Sires and their selection, but he sure is a good looking dog.

I also think if you study enough peds you will see Joe Shadow in dogs that you like.

This may be your thread but I am pretty sure I will take my Patchy to the dog in the pic above. Those that know blood, know what Fiddler brings. Going to Gigolo with Ben as the Sire of Patch would be too much of that for me. Think about that Rob, as that is the reverse of what you are thinking about doing with Lola. (For the most part)

Most on here don't know who that dog is by pic. That is OK as I don't need to advertise a litter now or care to entertain the lesser comments made to you along those lines about your bitch. Those that do know will not question the whole "East vs. West" idea in some of the previous posts as he has done well on the Prairies and we will see how he does at Ames.

CM

I like your thoughts CM. You are right, I don't know the dog in the photo. Obviously there's some Miller in there. Put some run in to the style and nose that the Fiddler stuff brings.

I don't know the exact story, but I'm told that they gave Gigolo a go in some horseback trials. That he was/is basically the only Honky Tonk dog that had the run for it. So with the Gigolo stuff you may already have some run?

CM that looks like Praireland Pride or one of Randy Andersons dogs?

that's Prarieland Pride

Elkhunter wrote:CM that looks like Praireland Pride or one of Randy Andersons dogs?

Yes Sir. How are you?

PM ok too.

CM

12 Volt Man wrote:I like your thoughts CM. You are right, I don't know the dog in the photo. Obviously there's some Miller in there. Put some run in to the style and nose that the Fiddler stuff brings.

I don't know the exact story, but I'm told that they gave Gigolo a go in some horseback trials. That he was/is basically the only Honky Tonk dog that had the run for it. So with the Gigolo stuff you may already have some run?

Does Lola crank on her points?

CM

You might say she has some crank

12 Volt Man wrote:You might say she has some crank I'm a little embarrassed by this photo because of her tail. She generally points with a nice straight tail. She just went through a while at just over a year old where it looked like that. I need to get some updated pics.

Cool pic. I like the crank. Some do not and that is OK too.

Imagine a bigger white dog that does that and has a tool for a tail.

The other thing you will notice on the Fiddler dogs is the lip curl when they crank. She is trying to "woft" in the scent cone of a long distance find. Patchy does it too. If we go back to Sires and that trait, there are some pics of TH's SMAK male cranking. He would be one if you are looking for Fiddler that is located in the West with multiple AA CHs.

CM

whats that dog weigh 12v?

birddog1968 wrote:whats that dog weigh 12v?

She weighed in at 36 pounds today at the Vet today. (annual rabies shot)

Nice lookin dogs ya got, I love my HTA/Joe Shadow dog.....she doesn't crank her
head very often but she is nothin but straight up and intense. Your description(perfectpeds)
of her mirrors what I have noticed with mine, almost exactly.

Sweet gravy marie! I don't come here fer months and this is what I find!

The solution is a simple one...: it’s a pointer, so who cares! You can always cull the dang thing and get some more. It aint like there's a shortage of the fleabitten things.

Ya see that’s the difference between setter folks and pointer folks. We'd be sitting around the hearth, smoking fine cigars and drinking fine liquor, discussing the merits of setters with beauty, brains and bird sense.

You fellas approach this like some sort of cockfight!

And if I see any of your easterners on UBD...I'll run ya off...

Its bad enough we're letting in hard charging, big running, sawdust fer brains birddogs...

And befor ya ban me...this was a joke (I know you Midwesterners are a bit starchy)

Critter is ANTI AMERICAN no matter if it's East or West,but he will say that was a JOKE also!!

IMO, a great Attitude dog to breed to is Honky Tonk Gigolo. Fantastic pedigree and super conformation.

John Everett
Cell 803-968-4151
Home 803-499-3596

IMO, a great Attitude dog to breed to is Honky Tonk Gigolo. Fantastic pedigree and super conformation.

Nothin' like a good ole daddy-daughter date!