Field Trial Brittanys ?

[Winchey]

Your post was pretty unclear to me, didn't really understand what you were saying. There are other reasons to breed then winning. If someone wants a Brit that runs like a pointer but looks like and has the personality of a Brit, so be it. What is wrong with wanting everything. Some people like Brits the way they are, others want something else. Maybe they prefer the style of an EP and like the Brits as a companion. I do agree that crossing something for the sake of winning or profit or bragging rights and lieing to people about what it actually is, is immoral.

But the point is you don't get a dog that looks like a Brit but runs like a Pointer. Just as you won't find a Brit that is capable of running like a Greyhound. Have you ever noticed that dogs have the physical attributes that allows them to do what they do.

Ezzy

No the point is it is not wrong to look outside of a breed for breeding dogs, just don't call them something they are not. I agree EP's to Brits may be a bad breeding decision, but there are a lot of dogs that may make sense to cross.

[ezzy333]

No the point is it is not wrong to look outside of a breed for breeding dogs, just don't call them something they are not. I agree EP's to Brits may be a bad breeding decision, but there are a lot of dogs that may make sense to cross.

Why?

Ezzy

[Winchey]

Why not?

[Ruffshooter]

Just as you won't find a Brit that is capable of running like a Greyhound.
Ezzy[/quote]

You never met my ole Dexter AM Brit. dog 35 miles and hour for a half mile. He was 26" tall at the shoulder.

[ezzy333]

Just as you won't find a Brit that is capable of running like a Greyhound.
Ezzy

You never met my ole Dexter AM Brit. dog 35 miles and hour for a half mile. He was 26" tall at the shoulder.[/quote]
I have had some pretty good runners too but they can't hold a candle to a Greyhound or a Whippet. I have had some dogs that could really pull but the couldn't hold a candle to a Malamute.

Ezzy

[apachecadillac]

Without slanderously naming names of breeders who might, ahem, have engaged in this practice sometime back in the 20th century, are their any particular lines identified with famous foundation stock that may be avec un etranger in the pedigree? Border collies?

Just curious. I'm a complete outsider to this world, and, I've got to say, that accusations of cheating are one of the oldest forms of losers' sour grapes. Also, experience has shown that with a disciplined breeding program it is eminently feasible to move away from (or deeper into) a breed standard, given time, effort and money.

[JKP]

Why not?

Because no one can be honest about it. Your friends (?) end up lying to you. A pedigree isn't worth the paper its written on. The reason folks can't be honest is the minute its known, they are on the outside looking in...can't run trials or participate in any sanctioned activities. So now you have liars and fakes shaking your hand and giving you the friendly smile. Think about that person...doesn't give a hoot for the breed, you or anyone else....kind of like the guy that's buying you a drink while his buddy robs your house.

[ezzy333]

Why not?

Because no one can be honest about it. Your friends (?) end up lying to you. A pedigree isn't worth the paper its written on. The reason folks can't be honest is the minute its known, they are on the outside looking in...can't run trials or participate in any sanctioned activities. So now you have liars and fakes shaking your hand and giving you the friendly smile. Think about that person...doesn't give a hoot for the breed, you or anyone else....kind of like the guy that's buying you a drink while his buddy robs your house.

This is an example of the old story about 2 guys who was moving to a new town and the first one asked an ol guy sitting in the park what the people were like here and he replied how were they where you live now. The answer was really nice , honest, and helpful and the guy in the park said they were about the same here. The second guy comes along and asked the same question and got the same reply as to how are they where you live now, He said they are mean, chet, lie, and cant be trusted and the guy in the park said you will find them the same here.

Moral is you find what you are looking for and that is usually someone just like your self. I always have a bad feeling whaen I talk to someone who always finds fault with other people and think everyone is not to be believed.

Ezzy

[Trekmoor]

I don't claim to know much about breeding but where Brits are concerned I've been wondering for years about their size. Is it possible that the size increases people have noticed could be caused by greatly improved feeding during the many generations since the breed was first introduced into America ? I doubt if the original French dogs got anything very great in the way of food until after the 2nd World War. Perhaps the brits potential for growth had been stunted for many generations ?

Bill T.

[kninebirddog]

I don't claim to know much about breeding but where Brits are concerned I've been wondering for years about their size. Is it possible that the size increases people have noticed could be caused by greatly improved feeding during the many generations since the breed was first introduced into America ? I doubt if the original French dogs got anything very great in the way of food until after the 2nd World War. Perhaps the brits potential for growth had been stunted for many generations ?

Bill T.

That is a great point as everyone keeps talking about how field brittanys are over sized...I can tell you I know of a lot of strong Show bred brittanys that are over sized. I know of DC that are over sized but were taught to stack in or were slipped by or were show titled before they fully matured and went over...Those dogs are not substantially over but they are over.
So yes it would make one wonder if the foods are part of the long term to this...
It has been established the foods can effect the bones causes things like HD to be worse it would stand to reason it could also cause them to grow a big more do to better nutrition

[RoostersMom]

Interesting point on the size issue. I do know that many breeds are getting larger and larger - look at the labs and chessies - they are WAY above breed standard now. I know that this same topic comes up with GSP's looking more like EP's now. The liver headed, white bodied dogs are always "suspect." That said, I have an almost solid white GSP from some very good lines - and she is very large as well. Half of the litter was liver headed, white bodied, the other half looked much more traditional (roan). Anywho..... I agree with posters on the "sour grapes" deal. There is always another reason why your dog didn't win (if you're that kind of person)..... and you can find something else to blame it on.

Interesting discussion folks - I liked reading through the posts. I'm gonna bring this up to a good friend that is a breeder of some nice Britts in Iowa next time I visit with him.

[ezzy333]

I think better feeding could effect it slightly but the size has always been a problem. Allamuchy Valley Warrior, one of the original Brits in this country and now in the Hall of Fame was oversized. I don't know about the others but they appear good sized from the few pictures of them. I do know size has always been a problem for the 50 to 60 years I have been involved with the breed in certain lines. I think you will find that most small breeds tend to get bigger if the breeding isn't watched closely and most large or giant breeds tend to get smaller at the same time. It is just part of everything tending to move to the middle or average with out responsible breeders making the effort to breed to the standard.

Back a few years ago when the whole nation was on a guard dog kick we saw many of the breeds get bigger but that has pretty much subsided presently. And most of the trialers have found that large, strong but sometimes rather cumbersome dogs just don't last in the trials, especially the hour or longer stakes. And we continue to see more and more Dual Champions in the breed and in the field trials. Overall I think we have more and more responsible Brittany people that understand the importance of maintaining the standard of the breed, but there are always a few that place winning or some other factor as their goal and continue to breed oversized dogs that will cause the same problem for years to come. We just need to continue to watch what we breed and do whatever we can to weed the oversized dogs out of the breeding pool. But it all comes back to responsible people.

Ezzy

[Birddog 307]

We had an accidental breeding a couple of years ago with our setter female and a male brittany and here is the result. The pups were all nuetered and were excellent hunting dogs. They all could pass for setters as the setter gene must be more dominant. We had orange and white and black and white. Here is a picture of Hershey the half breed (settany).

Birddog 307

[hosejockey2935]

Interesting point on the size issue. I do know that many breeds are getting larger and larger - look at the labs and chessies - they are WAY above breed standard now.

A friend of mine has breed his lab, he made the comment that the day's of the 100+lb. lab are going away. They are to big, and thier frame is not meant to hold that much weight. I guess its similar to the guy loaded up at the lumber yard in the S-10 pickup!

As far as brits, my oldest is above the standard in height and weight. But he was bought to be a family dog, it just so happened that he started this mess! Now I have another dog, another gun, and numerous trips in and out of state for bird hunting! The youngest is "normal" to the standard, but everybody we talk to think's she is TOO small.

Birddog 307...the settney would look better with a short tail!



~tommy

[Trekmoor]

I saw a "settnay" bitch , a result of an accidental mating between a brit bitch and an Irish setter. The bitch was about the same size as a work bred Irish Setter ( The sire was a show dog) and had the same colour as an I.S. , her coat was a little shorter than an I.S. of show breeding . The brittany genes came through in her tail .......... she only had a stump.

Bill T.