AKC Trial ?

Oggie · Post by **Oggie** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:17 pm

Does anyone have any tips for a newbie to the trialing..Will be entering my 12 month GSP in his and mine first trial. Going to run the Puppy stake and amuatur derby.....

Karen · Post by **Karen** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:22 pm

Walk or ride as many braces as you can and have a great time!!

TrueBlu Shorthairs · Post by **TrueBlu Shorthairs** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:32 pm

Ride all the braces and watch what is expected and needed to win.

Meet all of the KC folks you can, very nice folks, Stinnett, Gulledges, etc.

Let your dog run, hunt, stay quiet as much as possible, let the dog show. Don't ride too hard to give the dog all the chance he needs to show himself. Don't ride on the horsepath. Push the dog to objectives to an extent.

HAVE FUN!!

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:43 pm

Also, be cordial to the folks running the event and especially to the judges. At the end, thank them for watching your dog. Oh, and HAVE FUN!

Oggie · Post by **Oggie** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:51 pm

Karen wrote:Walk or ride as many braces as you can and have a great time!!

This will be Walking Trial..
Thanks to all..

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:07 pm

Oggie you've been given a lot of good advice above. Even at a walking trial or walking stake in any trial there will usually be a mounted gallery. If you don't have horses talk to the FT Secretary or event chairman and see if they know anyone you can talk to about borrowing or renting a horse from.

The more braces you are able to see the better you'll understand the game and most people can't walk enough braces to see very much.

Shake hands, introduce yourself, and ask questions politely when people aren't busy and you'll make a lot of freinds. Everyone likes to win but meeting new people and having a good time helping them along is a big part of it too.

Lots of good people in both the KC, and the Sunflower clubs so try and attend both of their trials. The Ozark club out of Carthage also has a lot of very fine people in it as well and they will go out of their way to make you feel welcome too. CR

Casper · Post by **Casper** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:50 pm

I was a newbie not very long ago. My advise would be to do away with any and all expectations you may have of your dog. You may very well think you have a very nice dog but so does everyone else and that dont mean squat in a FT. Keep your dog to the front. Try and not let him circle back into you. The more forward drive the dog shows the better he will look to many judges.

I hated the puppy stakes. Hate em! Probably wont run in them again. Many like them and do well running dogs in them but I lost interest.

FWIW

phermes1 · Post by **phermes1** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:14 pm

What everybody else said, and watch where you fire your blank gun. Know where your bracemate is at so you don't shoot your gun in his dog's face - really good way to make a dog gunshy. Don't shoot it in the judge's horse's face either as he won't appreciate it.

Other than that, just go run your dog and have fun!

oakcreek · Post by **oakcreek** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:49 pm

I ran my first trial three years ago, it was a great experience. Just let the dog work, only handle when needed, and don't be afraid to point the dog out on good big casts. The more you scream and holler the less interested the judges become in your dog.

Have fun

Hotpepper · Post by **Hotpepper** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:10 am

In a puppy stake, the pup needs to stay forward, not check in with the haldler, hunt the cover and objectives. Handling of a puppy will get you nothing.

Keep the pup forward in training and have fun and enjoy the experience with the dog. How "zero" expectations of winning, ride, walk and do a much as you can to see what is going on. Avoid any puppy stake that allows shooting or firing over the pup.

Pepper

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:13 am

Personally I don't even like to run Puppy stakes where there will be birds planted. Time enough to screw them up with birds they can catch in Derby Stakes. CR

Hotpepper · Post by **Hotpepper** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:23 am

The only good thing about them is that it introcudes new folks to the game and business.

Pepper

TrueBlu Shorthairs · Post by **TrueBlu Shorthairs** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:54 pm

Apparently the planets are in perfect alignment, but Charlie and I agree. I don't like puppy stakes with birds planted, purely that the puppies are supposed to be judged on application, use of the wind, range, speed, stamina, gait, etc. and are NOT supposed to be judged on their bird finding ability. Get a puppy into one bird and often, if he's wild and wooly, he will chase like a fiend, go behind, etc. etc. Worse yet, if he's REALLY a birddog he'll get knocked for pointing and not running enough. It's a deal you often can't win. Don't plant birds, let 'em run, rip, and tear and judge that. OR, change to rule to make it a derby stake for under 12 month old dogs. Keeping the older puppies, from 12 to 24 months out.

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:06 pm

Worse yet, if he's REALLY a birddog he'll get knocked for pointing and not running enough. It's a deal you often can't win.

I've seen some poor judging from time to time but I've never seen a judge dumb enough to knock a puppy down for pointing a bird. I have seen some however wrongly use a puppy that did point because "it was the only pup in the stake with a bird", which clearly goes against the judging criteria. CR

arrowbanshee · Post by **arrowbanshee** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:08 pm

Not trying to Hijack Oggie's thread here, but I am a little confused and will probably be meeting him up there to watch the trial and watch him run. We have littermates and they have been hunted quite a bit this winter and turned 1yr old on Jan 16th. Exactly what are they looking for, running in a straight line towards objectives and what are these "objectives"? or quartering the field? I will be honest, I have focused on training for hunting and possibly NAVHDA and AKC hunt tests, so I am not extremely familiar with the trials any more info would be great. Thanks

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:31 pm

Judging the puppy/derby stakes is harder than judging any of the adult stakes.

The key word is "potential". To some people the greatest potential is for an all age prospect so they are looking for a real wild Indian that runs with style, speed, strength and abandon to the front. Of course you are looking for more polish in a derby than a puppy and a derby must have a find to win but again it's "potential".

To some judges there is a leaning towards the bigger/harder running dogs because of the theory that you will always "take something out of them getting them broke" and so if you have a nice AA prospect the theory is that when that pup is finished you should at least still have a nice big gun dog.

The judging criteria specifies that you are not to give more credit to either AA or GD prospects but in reality it doesn't always come out that way. Knowing your judges and what they like gives you a good rule of thumb to work by in deciding which stakes to enter.

In either case the dog should be fast, stylish, snappy and actually hunt it's way around the course. I actually like to see puppies hunt up and chase "bleep" birds a bit because it fires them up and shows me that they are actually there to do something besides run. "Hunt" is part of the puppy judging criteria even though pointing is not.

We typically expect puppies to be immature, after all that's what they are, but they do need to keep to the front, hunt the course, and show some willingness to be handled (though not polished finished handle). A puppy that looks real nice but trots around hunting every step of the way with his nose to the ground is not going to fare well against another puppy that's showing some speed and drive and still going to the objectives at least showing it's got some idea it should be hunting.

It's really hard to put into words but we judge puppy stakes typically by the same criteria we evaluate our own puppies on in the field when training. You know when you have a good prospect and so will a good judge.

Remember there's only going to be one winner so don't get your hopes up, don't be disappointed if it's not you, and try to come away from the trial with some experience so you'll be better prepared for the next one.

Try to handle the pup as quietly as possible while still keeping them working to the front, and don't get nervous if the pups get out of sight as long as it's to the front. They'll turn up and you don't want to be shortening their range by hacking them in all the time out of nervousness. If you get concerned calmly ask the judge(s) if they have your dog, usually if they don't they'll tell you where they had the dog last.

Pay attention to the judges as well if they make any "suggestions" it's probably because they'd particularly like to see something in your dog they haven't seen yet, but like the dog and want to see more.

Best of Luck and have a good time. CR

Maverick · Post by **Maverick** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:45 pm

Get out and watch as many braceas as you can. Sit in the club house for lunch and dinner and listen to as much as you can.
Turn your dog loose and have a great time.
Be prepared to purchase, many new toys afterwards as trialing can be highly addictive and fun !!!

Mav.........

Casper · Post by **Casper** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:21 pm

WildRose wrote:The judging criteria specifies that you are not to give more credit to either AA or GD prospects but in reality it doesn't always come out that way. Knowing your judges and what they like gives you a good rule of thumb to work by in deciding which stakes to enter.

When I attended the Judges seminar in California this past summer I asked this in a question.

Question was if you are judging a puppy stake and you have a stake full of potential gun dogs and you have one potential AA dog. Considering all or most dogs did good to great runs and met the criteria for the stake. Which dog should be given credit?

Answer was always give more credit toward the AA potential.

I found that the trials I entered in puppy stakes typically had new judges judging the young dog stakes. Those judges had not had the experience to make good judgement IMO.

FWIW

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:55 pm

I ran a lot of puppy stakes this past fall to ge tmy puppy points for my pup. I can tell you that almost every judge was looking for a dog that showed to the front, hunted the objectives, handled just a whee bit and was enjoyable to watch. As a handler I enjoyed watching my pup learn and grow and make improvements each time he was down on the ground.

I only ran into a judge or two that I felt was not objective, but that's ok. I pay my money and take my chances just like the next guy or girl. They ar enot going to like my dog every time. Hey, and some times the handler just totally screws things up.

One thing people haven't mentioned and should be kept an eye on is playing puppies. They start out playing and then it goes to tagging and soon it could lead to worse (your dog or the bracemate). Just keep an eye on things and try not to let your dog interfere with the bracemate. The hard part is doing this with grace and sportmanship if and when it does happen.

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:32 pm

I expect a little tagging in the juvenile stakes. If it's "all one dog" and it takes away from the other dog's performance (interference) I have asked that the offender be leashed and taken off the course if the handler could not get it stopped.

It is a very good point though. If your puppy is used to being a loner (no playmates) then it's almost sure to happen so if at all possible get them out some with bracemates BEFORE the first trial and work on it there. CR