Need help on Weim pedigrees

gary · Post by **gary** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 4:17 pm

Will be breeding my 3 year old Weim late this year and was more interested in the bitch,rather than concentrating on the Male.

If one would look only at Males No 1(Jake-20 AFC) No2(Unser-18 AFC) No3 Rider(11 AFC)

If 70% of the pups potential comes from female then what can I find out about these dogs with 3 or more NFC offsprings;
OUTDOOR BOOTS,
DEAUGH DAZE,
WYNWOODS RAIN/RISE,
PRAIRE DEAUGH,
RICHMARK DIAMOND
If anyone is familar with these bloodlines and can explain there
temperment traits,birdyness,range,etc. it would be appreciated.

Thanks,Gary

Quailhunter · Post by **Quailhunter** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 6:42 pm

You might try "bleep" Wilbur. I have his number around here somewhere. I'll look for it and get back to you.

gary · Post by **gary** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 7:20 pm

Thanks, I have it, wan't help or sell his dogs......anyway, the dogs I mentioned are the ones I think I need to find all I can about.

QCBirddogs · Post by **QCBirddogs** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:16 pm

Gary,

I have a Weim client that is pretty knowledgable the Weim world, I will see if I can get her on the board.

Phil
REO

gary · Post by **gary** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:39 am

Phil,
Thanks for your help, have you much contact with Weims?
Is GSP's your main interest?

I noticed a lot of lookers on this post but no cigars.....

Gary

QCBirddogs · Post by **QCBirddogs** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:33 pm

Gary,

I have trained several. It's hard if not impossible to take Weims along to trials that are dominated by other breeds. Also, most Weim trials are closed with the exception of one stake that is open to all breeds.

Most trainers that compete with them are usually Weim specific handlers, that carry a few out of breed dogs.

I Emailed Marybeth, hopefully she will show up! She owns a show Champion Weim along with several other titles, that I started along with her in the trials. They both were hooked instantly!

Phil
REO

gary · Post by **gary** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:17 pm

Phil.
I like winning at all breed trials with Weims and tend to think that
the best dog won that day.

Some West coast club trials are tougher on dogs from other states,but the all breed trials cannot afford loss of paraticipation from bias judgeing and remain agreat place to trial....

{most All Clubs trials are closed with the exception of one stake that is open to all breeds} SOME STATES ARE BEGAINING TO LOOK AT ALL BREED TRIALS MORE....

QCBirddogs · Post by **QCBirddogs** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:12 pm

I agree with you mostly Gary.

I have been trialing over 20 years now, I have never been to a shorthair trial that closed stakes, or pointer trial. Many Gordon trials are open as well. Rarely do you see a Britany trial open, and I have never seen a Weim trial have more than one stake open. Barring the ones at my training grounds that is! I am reffering to "open" stakes here though.

Several AKC All Breed clubs have formed that I know of. So far it has been dominated by the GSP's and Brits. I havent seen to many Weims or setters yet.

Judges are the hardest thing to find. MAny I have ran across never hunted a wild bird. I like to go to trials that have at least one out of breed judges per stake. Which is also hard to find!

It's getting harder for clubs to afford judges too. Paying for travel and putting them up, some want to be paid for the use of their horses too. Many clubs here dont have a wrangler anymore either. Most back east still do but that is going to fade as well.

Phil
REO

gary · Post by **gary** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:32 pm

Thanks Phil,
You put it so most could understand....

{Several AKC All Breed clubs have formed}THIS IS GOOD and may the best dogs raise the bar for others to follow...

Gary

icefire · Post by **icefire** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:26 am

two comments, first, if you can find a way to get a hold of Tim Hildago, he is a major weim pro and trials a lot of them. he would certianly know a lot about weim bloodlines.

second, I am curious where you picked up the idea that 70% of a pups potential comes from the mother? the genetic influence is even between the bitch and the stud. the mark of a good stud or a good bitch is how well that dog passes on their better qualities and yes, some of that has to do with choosing a good pairing, but good or bad, the influence is 50/50.

Ice

gary · Post by **gary** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:26 pm

ICE,
Yes, 50/50% on parents is normal,,,but the top brood bitches who
feed there pups to 7/8 weeks is why some think the top brood bitches have several champion field dogs from one litter.
Call it what you may,but some MOM's are great moms...
Tim Hidalgo is the best....Gary

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:18 pm

I would think the reason you find several Champions of any kind out of one litter is because the two parents were good and the mating was superb. That same great bitch bred to a different dog may not produce a thing which would contradict your theory. I think the influence passed on to the pups is an individual thing but averages 50-50 over many dogs. We know there are sires that produce good pups from many different bitches and the reverse is also true. These are the exceptions that we all strive for in a mating but here again there are as many males that are dominant as there are females.

The one area where there may be a possibility that the bitch has more influence over is personality traits such as boldness that she has taught the pups and it didnt come from the genetics.

Ezzy

QCBirddogs · Post by **QCBirddogs** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:52 pm

There are several Weim pros out there that are good. Diane Vater seems to have one heck of a rapport with her Dogs. I have run against many of them.

Doc in Ohio at Southside kennels is another, Tim is a great guy as well. I am sure they would all be happy to help you.

One thing for sure about the Weim folks, they sure are a great bunch and could party till the wee hours! We had a ball with them at their trials at my place!

Phil
REO

gary · Post by **gary** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 6:45 am

EZZY{The one area where there may be a possibility that the bitch has more influence over is personality traits such as boldness that she has taught the pups and it didnt come from the genetics. }

Well said and true,and partly explains why all great bitches will produce champions with mulitiable sires.

QC{Doc in Ohio at Southside kennels}What dogs does he have?
Breeeders nowadays seem be all over the place with about 6 dogs,,,,,
Gary

QCBirddogs · Post by **QCBirddogs** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:27 am

Gary,

I recalled his name last night around 3am.......wasn't getting out of bed to put it up for ya though! It is Dan and Cindy Long of Southside kennels. I don't remember what lines they have perdominantly. I know they have several of SMokey City dogs.

Phil
REO

gary · Post by **gary** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:47 am

QC

Dan Long runs some of Dave Carriveau dogs,he also is a respected
handler and trainer.
You know these Tour Trainers are so involved in cross country trials
that they can tell you what they have heard someone say about a
dogs disposition or may have handled one firsthand...

statelyweims · Post by **statelyweims** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:59 am

Gary, you probably know me and my Cooper dog from the weimaraner@yahoogroups.com list.
What I found from researching pedigrees was that its best to talk to a LOT of people about each pedigree. Several of the people mentioned are good to talk too, but their opinions are going to be slanted strongly on one particular bloodline. I'd also talk to Steve Reynolds, Beavens, Diane Vater & Chuck Cooper, Sue Williams and so on...............
The most informative person I think I ever talked to about Weim bloodlines was Shirley Nilsson, Regen Weimaraners from BC. She's listed in the WCA roster.
She rides all the braces in trials she goes to and has spent time in the desert training with different trainers and heads to Nationals to check out the show dogs, so she's got a lot of firsthand knowledge of the dogs.

Now, I'll brag on my Cooper dog a little bit. He's all Nani's pedigrees. He's incredibly birdy......that's all we do anymore is hunt or test or trial. His pups are all birdy, but they are just getting started. He gives them his biddable-ness, his strong work ethic(this dog hates to just sit on the couch!), his beautiful topline and elegant neck. Coop's out field trialling right now, but I won't brag that I think he's going to sweep the field trial world by storm. He's doing well, but I trained him as a pup to stay close so I don't know if that'll hold back his range forevermore? I'd like to get him bred to a bitch with lots of rib spring, decent angles and that's all bird dog, just to see what we'll get. I'm hoping for some pups that would be dual types.

But, I'm new at this in the relative scheme of things. I'd love to hear what you come up with once you've talked to at least a half dozen or more Weimie people about some of those dogs that you listed.

Mary Beth

gary · Post by **gary** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:33 am

Mary Beth,

Thanks,and good advise...I guess most of the people that I need
to talk to are no longer with us (Charlie Williams etc.)
And yes,haveing spoke to most of those listed, might even consider useing this pup Pictured under author to left.That is if he will breed at 15 months.

Best of luck with your dual Weims....Gary

statelyweims · Post by **statelyweims** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:18 pm

Gary, shoot me an email at fcdreams@yahoo.com and I'll give you my cell phone number and I'll share a few details I know about some of the dogs you named.
Did you call Sue Williams? She was Charlie's righthand gal and talking with her is pretty inspiring!

Maybe I'll never have a dual Weim or maybe I'll never have another hunting dog as great as Cooper has been for me, but hey, the ride has been pretty darn fun so far!! I love taking this dog out in the field.

Make sure you post about the litter when it comes. I get phone calls on occasion from people looking for pups to hunt with and its hard to know who to send them to.

Mary Beth

gary · Post by **gary** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:43 pm

I talk to Sue regulary, for she has a litter mate to my dog.

Dual Champion was my all time lofty goal...but,they keep raiseing the bar each year for the field dogs...they get better and better......Almost to a point that breeding for a winning field dog is all consuming,,,,,or we will be looking at a bench dog that can't do either well....

gary