Dog pointing on fur....

[WiskeyJaR]

yes I know this is a BIRD Dog forum, har, but I think there are a few fur hunters here...no?

I was curious if any others heard of the dog lifting a rear leg when on point for fur and lifting the front leg for pointing feathers.

How do you train the dog to lift front or rear leg depending on prey?


thanks
WikseyJar

[Prairie Hunter]

WikseyJar,

I guess you could train a dog to do that (you can train a dog to do almost anything), but I don’t know anyone that has. Usually, when you see a dog with its paw or leg raised on point, it is just because the dog froze in that position for the point. I don’t know of anyone that taught their dog to raise a leg.

However, once you get to know your dog, and read it on point, you can usually tell what it is pointing. If you pay attention, you will usually notice differences in intensity, style, body position, etc. from one species to the next.

[Wagonmaster]

Naw, that is a myth, a joke. How they stand when they go on point depends on where they were and what they were doing when they hit scent. Sometimes they do raise a rear leg. Usually, but not always, that is a sign that they were creeping when they hit point.

[WiskeyJaR]

This lifting of the rear leg for fur came from an europien forum, they say their hunting dogs do it all the time. They say in england espeacially they tend to train for both fur and feather, as they say "thats a versatile dog"
<shrugs> prolly just "yanking the yank's chain" so to speak )

[Brushbustin Sporting Dogs]

Ya I personally don't think this is possible. I've got a seven year old britt that still points rabbits and she won't tell ya its a rabbit until you walk 100 yards to her point then she tell y ain her face but I din't teach her to raise a back leg maybe I should would save me some frantic walks trying to get to her point

[Greg Jennings]

Reminds me of the joke about the dog counting the birds, some hip action and a stick....

Greg J.

[Trekmoor]

I wouldn't be too quick to scoff at this, I have seen several dogs (always G.S.P.'s for some reason that will do this.) This has never, to my knowledge, been something the handler has taught, some dogs, from some lines , just do it. I think Michael Brander mentions this in his book on training the H.P.R.

The occasional dog I've seen do this pointed normally on birds but raised a hind paw slightly when pointing a rabbit. I think I have seen this often enough for it to have gone out of the realms of sheer happenstance.

I have seen other dogs of other breeds do it too but with them I think it was happenstance , they were not consistent in their behaviour.

Bill T.

[ohiogsp]

I got one that puts her tail down on fur. She is the closest german bred dog I have, and likes fur alot.

[Wagonmaster]

Reminds me of the joke about the dog counting the birds, some hip action and a stick....

You have heard that one too.

Maybe I can clean it up a little. Maybe a mod will cut me off or edit if I go too far, I will change the punch line just a little. But the same thing came to my mind.

Two hunting friends ran into each other one day, and the first fella said to the second, I have this new dog, you have to see it. It can actually tell you what kind of ducks are coming in and where they are coming from. The second fella says no way! I have to see this.

So they go out hunting one morning. They row the boat out, set up the decoys, back the boat into the cattails. The dog's owner says, "Alright," and the dog leaves the boat and swims out to reconnoiter. Some time passes, and the dog comes swimming back. It gets in the boat, scratches the bottem twice with its left front paw, and jerks its head towards the east. The owner says, "get down, there are two teal coming in from the east!" The second guy says "you are kidding me, no way!" The owner says "get down now, you will see!!" So they hunker down and in a couple of minutes, two teal come in from the east which they promptly down, the dog retrieves them, and then goes back out to reconnoiter.

It is gone about ten minutes and comes back, hops in the boat, and scratches the bottom loudly three times with its left rear paw, then jerks its head to the north. "Get down!" "There are three really big greenheads coming in from the North." "No way!" says the second guy. They hunker down, and in a couple of minutes three great big greenheads come in from the North, which they down and the dog retrieves.

This goes on all morning until they are filled out and row back to shore.

"I gotta have that dog," says the second guy. "I will give you anything, I will pay you a hundred thousand for that dog!!" "Well, I love him says the first guy, and it was alot of training, but a hundred thousand is alot of money. OK, he is yours."

A month or so later the two friends meet in town, and the first fella says, "How's that dog doing that I sold you?" The second fella looks pale and says, "I had to shoot him." "What!!??" says the first guy, "what happened."

"Well," says the hundred thousand dollar man, "I was so proud of that dog I told my preacher about him and he thought I was lying so I hadda take him out and show him." "We did just like you and I did. We loaded the boat, rowed out, set the decoys up, backed into the reeds in that same spot, and I sent the dog out. He was gone a loooong time. Then he came thrashing back with this stick in his mouth. He hopped in the boat, threw the stick on the bottom, then jumped the preacher and was humping him. I was so mortified I shot him."

"You idiot!!!" says the first fella, "He was trying to tell you there were more [expletive deleted] ducks out there than you could shake a stick at!!!"

That joke is at least thirty years old, which is how long ago I heard about it, at a party. Does that maybe explain where this urban myth came from?

[Brushbustin Sporting Dogs]

I've heard it but it was with quail the dog would run to a bush and come back and tell how many quail were in there. ANd the last time he comes out caring a stick and humps the one guys leg.

[tasi devil]

Trekmoor ...........Michael Brander 'The Roughshooters Dog' photo and mentions it also it's mentioned in Michael Branders other book 'Training the Pointer-Retriever Gundog' but i can't find it quickly ....will look at the weekend. it can be done one of mine does it 'mostly' but the next dog i will train for that, we have a lot of fur here. i have GSP's their line goes back to the imports from Branders kennels 'DUNPENDER' and the 'FRIULI' lines, a lot of other stuff since bred into that lineage.
.......tasi

[WiskeyJaR]

I have had my pup out in the fields running about, she has pointed birds and squerriels...didnt notice a difference in either points....(didnt hold either point for very long at all)

I have heard from the european folks that this is fairly common, espeacially among the 'older" bloodlines, that the dog will lift a back leg on fur. they mostly say the dog lifts back leg on own accord, not beening trained to. So maybe it is a matter of the dog "sneaking" in on the fur prey and pausing in stride with rear leg lifted.

Since I plan to hunt both fur and feathers with my dog, would be nice to know which prey my dog had pointed, so as to be perpared for a "'running shot" or a "flying shot". I guess I just need more time in fields with the dog, to get to know her points better.

[tasi devil]

Wiskey i haven't trained for it specifically ,the dog just does it naturally, i hunt both, there a lot of roo some feral cats rabbits and hares where i am. i can mostly tell from body language/attitude the point is just as intense tho . basically from what i remember in the book mentioned it is a matter of setting up the situation, with pigeon/feather or rabbit/fur in a cage and styling the dog up appropriately when it hits scent. we need to remember these are versatile/utility dogs not originally bred as specialists.
................tasi

[gar-dog]

I am reading a hunting dog story from 1920, and the guy references a dog that points Woodcock differently from Grouse by how he holds his head.

[Don]

JR, I doubt anyone in this country trains for anything much like that but, I wouldn't doubt it happens in Europe. They rough shoot over there. That is they don't really care if it's fur or feathers. A whole different world there and I've no idea how you'd teach a dog to do that. My dogs never struck a classic pose everytime, just depended on how they hit the bird,,,,or rabbit!

[WiskeyJaR]

Thannks folks for all your input.
I like the idea of an 'all around meat dog" like they have across the pond. I know us american tend to "speacialize" our dogs to hunt centain things, uppland, waterfowl, varmits/fur. I'm trying to train my dog to be a true versatile hunter, an all around hunter.

In so doing, It would be handy to be able to tell from a distance what my dog had pointed in the brush. Like other have said, I guess its more a matter of getting to know my dog and her points. Maybe I can train her to carry color rags to tie on her tail, red for fur.blue for feathers....lol

Thanks again folks for your input.
WiskeyJaR

[bobman]

I have a tip... if they point a clump of grass with all the hair on their back up dont kick the grass, Raccoons in traps bite.....