Shadows Attitude or Honky Tonk Attitude?

birdogg42 · Post by **birdogg42** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:41 pm

Has anyone had any experience with either dog as a stud? If so which is a better producer? I know it depends on the gyp too, but from your experience, which one? Thanks Mike

KY Grouse Hunter · Post by **KY Grouse Hunter** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:42 pm

I have had a few real good dogs from Honky Tonk. Another one of my feidl trialing buddies has had good luck out of Honky Tonk as well. They just seem to have alot of natural instinct.

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:22 pm

My avatar dog is a HTA son. I have also trained MANY Shadow's Attitude get and have several in my kennel right now. Another to consider is Attitude's High Finance. He is producing INCREDIBLE pups. He is out of Shadow's Attitude and an Elhew female.

What will you be doing with your dog? FT, HT, bird hunting?

I have Shadow's Attitude, Attitude's High Finance and Honky Tonk Ice Breaker (my avatar) pups available right now. Haven't even put them on my website yet.

What would you like to know?

birdogg42 · Post by **birdogg42** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:13 pm

I was waiting for you to reply Ross. I have an extremely nice Elhew female and a Granddaughter of Additions Go Boy and HTA. The GO Boy and HTA gyp is just a pup. She will have to prove herself first. MY Elhew Female is almost flawless. She needs a little more wheels. But she is going bigger every time i run her. I have a friend who has a male out of Shadows Attitude and Wannabe Barbie. I was just wanting to know which dog do you think is a better producer?

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:20 am

Shadows Attitude and Wannabe Barbie

I know that litter well. In fact, I have 3 young pups from the repeat breeding of Cash & Barbie that just arrived yesterday. The first litter produced very nice dogs. I trained Ken, Buck, Joe & Tina last summer. What dog does your friend have and when did he get it?

I just bought an Addition's Go Boy female bred to Ben (Attitude's High Finance). That is also a repeat breeding and I've got to tell you that the first breeding produced sensational pups. I think that Ben is going to out produce HTA and Shadow's Attitude before he is through. He produced both the Puppy of the year and Derby of the year last year. I'm taking Sarah, my Elhew female to Ben when she comes in. His pups are the most consistent I have seen. I couldn't think of a better Attitude dog to take your Elhew female to.

Cash produces as well and I really like what I've seen and worked with out of him. I considered him for Sarah as well because that breeding would go back to Elhew Phantom. I may do that down the road. What I like a little better out of the Ben pups vs. the Cash pups is run. I haven't seen more animated and flashy pups than I have seen out of Ben.

I think that Cash and Ben both produce slightly better tails than HTA. Although Bull has certainly produced his share of great offspring.

Hope that helps.

Here is a picture of Molly (4mos.) from the Ben litter that I just repeated. Molly is now in the grouse woods and will be campaigned next fall. She is owned by Dale Herndon of MI. She is a very flashy, stylish and fancy little girl. She also has a fantastic nose. Dale said that she is already holding her grouse.

Here's a quick clip of Molly as a pup:
http://www.caladenkennels.com//forsale/ ... V05358.MPG

birdogg42 · Post by **birdogg42** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:10 pm

Ross, he lives about thirty minutes from Scott Miller. He got the pup from Scott and some guy up your way in SC. I think his name was Scott also. Where is Ben located? I am taking him in consideration also. He has a male out of Shadows attitude and Wannabe Barbie. And a Honky Tonk Badonkadonk male.

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:32 pm

That would be Scott Turner. Scott also now owns Ben. He just bought him from Stan Wint and Ronnie Conn. I ran against Ben a few weeks ago in the SE Reg. Championship. Ben won it. He is the real deal!

I'm not sure that I ever saw your friends dog. I worked with 5 pups from that litter though. Very nice, great noses and a ton of style. Scott just repeated the breeding and I have 3 of those pups here. The male that he sent me is for sale and will be on my site later today if I can get a picture of him.

Can't go wrong with Cash ...but I sure like Ben. I would like to see your dogs pedigree and a pic though. That might change my recommendation.

birdogg42 · Post by **birdogg42** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:51 pm

You can view my dogs pedigree at http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/3genview.php?id=497
She isnt out of anything extrodinary up close. But she is one heck of a bird dog. I almost sold her because she did not have the run i like. But boy is she coming on now! IF that link doesnt work her name is Strollin Elhew Kate. She is on perfect pedigree here. How big is Ben? My gyp is pretty small. But she is a ball of fire.

Mike

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:05 pm

Actually, that's an AWESOME Elhew pedigree. Very tightly linebred Strike, Damascus and McGoo. Go back a couple of generations and you'll see what I mean. Pinehill Elhew Liz is a super female. Yellow Rose bought her and LOVE what she is producing for them. Also, I really like Pinehill dogs. They understand what they are doing IMO.

Having seen the pedigree I like going to Ben even more. Ben's bottom side matches up very nicely. His bottom is Strike and McGoo. I'll bet you'll have some KILLER pups!! I want one.

birdogg42 · Post by **birdogg42** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:18 pm

Thanks alot. Where is Ben located? I thought i seen on the net that he is in Frankfort KY. That would be five hours closer to me! That pup i was telling you about out of Honkytonk Icon (HTA son) and daughter of Additions Go Boy, I got from Shady Medows. I have high hopes for her also. I just realized Ronnie Conn is from Run n Gun kennels. Sorry

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:37 pm

Ben is in Greenwood, SC.

Scott Turner 864-377-6210

His stud fee is $600 and all pups are eligable for the $10,000 Honky Tonk Incentive Fund.

Oh, if you are interested I know an excellent dog hauler that is VERY reasonable that runs from MO to SC on a regular schedule. I use him all the time.

--------------------------------

BTW, the Go Boy female that your pup is out of was whelped by Scott Turner. He sold her to Jim Harris and then Shady Meadows bought her. I try to keep up.

birdogg42 · Post by **birdogg42** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:50 pm

Thanks alot! I will keep that in mind if that time ever comes!

Mike

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:30 pm

That's certainly a consideration and in fact, I know of a strictly Elhew kennel that did just that for that exact reason. But Ben is also adding toughness and the other trait that he is adding is run. I see a lot of Cash pups and it's about 50/50 gun dog vs. shooting dog or better. Obviously the female contributes and in this case especially, the run would be important to maintain because she is Elhew.

This is JMO.

KY Grouse Hunter · Post by **KY Grouse Hunter** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:45 pm

One thing I like about my Honky Tonk dogs is that they are very intense on birds but at the same time so very controlled. While I was breaking those dogs out, I never worried about those dogs breaking or jumping of birds, once they hit it, they were on it and you could walk over and push those dogs over like statues. They are big...big running dogs and just seem to have a bird radar. I have some pups right now out of Lester's Snowatch who is down in Tenn. at nationals, those are some good lookin dogs and are showing alot of promise.

Ryan Baumann · Post by **Ryan Baumann** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:49 pm

shady? why did they all wash out? that makes me courious? were they not getting the bird contact they needed? i find it hard to believe they all washed out.

Ryan Baumann · Post by **Ryan Baumann** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:19 pm

snowatch is out of millers dateline and lesters leeza. she is a sister of sir lancealot. this dog was on of ferrels best dogs he ever had. lancelot is said to be one of hoyle eaton's top 3 dogs of all time. I would think that there would be a bunch of good pups in there somewhere.

I have real trouble when I hear someone say that those pups wuld be washout???

birdogg42 · Post by **birdogg42** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:42 am

I had a snowatch and white powder female pup that was dumber than a bag of hammers completely stupid in the kennel. Had a little run but ran through covey after covey and absolutely would not back. He didnt stay too long. just my experience, one dog.

Mike[/code]

BarkRidge · Post by **BarkRidge** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:52 am

Ryan Baumann wrote:snowatch is out of millers dateline and lesters leeza. she is a sister of sir lancealot. this dog was on of ferrels best dogs he ever had. lancelot is said to be one of hoyle eaton's top 3 dogs of all time. I would think that there would be a bunch of good pups in there somewhere.

I have real trouble when I hear someone say that those pups would be washout???

I try to consider the source of a post when I read them. Most seem to have an angle.

Snowwatch is a cross between Miller's line and Eaton's line. They are both successful lines. And obviously produced a super dog in Snowwatch. I do know that Snowatch was by far the best out of that litter. I know of his brother who did okay and his sister who did nothing. Don't know of the other siblings.

The jury is still out on Snowatch's sire potential. Most of his offspring are just now coming into derby age. We will see.

Ryan Baumann · Post by **Ryan Baumann** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:06 am

barkridge, I guess that is what i was trying to point out. I think the jury is still out. I would love to have a pup out of that breeding.

BarkRidge · Post by **BarkRidge** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:30 am

Ryan Baumann wrote:barkridge, I guess that is what i was trying to point out. I think the jury is still out. I would love to have a pup out of that breeding.

If you are interested in that breeding, I know of a double bred female, from both Date Line and Lancelot on both sides. Her sire is Snowwatch and her dam is out of Lancelot and Date Line's sister. She is six months old and he wants only $500. A male may also still be available.

TMcphail · Post by **TMcphail** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:25 pm

Mike,

I just raised an entire litter out of HTA and have a female bred to Shadow's Attitude right now and they are both phenomanal producers. The way your female is bred I would lean towards Cash because of the Elhew ties. What I like about Cash pups is how early they come on. At five months they are pointing and really just develop quickly. My only knock on them is some are very timid and weird acting in the kennel.

lvrgsp · Post by **lvrgsp** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:20 pm

Ross, You have got to be kidd'n me? You have a Addition's Go Boy bitch and bred her to Ben? Good lord that should make some phenominal birddogs, holy crap I need a bigger kennel.

Oh yea and Ross make sure you let us know the next time your website is going to be down for a week....

Chip..

Wa Chukar Hunter · Post by **Wa Chukar Hunter** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:35 pm

They seem very immature for their age 15 months and pretty soft - I don't like them much - but then again - I don't like pointers much either.

Kinda like an 870 reliable and functional - but no grace.

Big Dave · Post by **Big Dave** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:11 pm

I have owned a daughter of HTA for 8 years now and I have really enjoyed her. As a generalization I think Bull threw a straighter tail on point and Cash throws a more active tail hunting. I have found them both hard to pattern. I have friends who are hunting dogs by Bull but none that have kept any by Cash. I have read some favorable write ups on Honky Tonk Gigalo in The Field, I am surprised we don't see more of his pups. Any comments on what Woody produces?

birdogg42 · Post by **birdogg42** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:31 pm

Where is Gigalo located?

Big Dave · Post by **Big Dave** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:14 pm

Last I knew he was still with Scott Miller in Greenfield,MO.

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:39 pm

I think Bull threw a straighter tail on point and Cash throws a more active tail hunting.

I don't agree but that's why we all post, right?

I love Gigolo's pedigree and I own a Gigolo son. He is a nice dog. The knock on Gigolo from what I hear is that he throws a lot of color. I saw him a couple of months ago at Scott's place.

Congrats to NC Attitude's High Finance for winning the NBHA National Amateur Championship this past weekend! Ben ran a huge race with 6 perfect finds in the call back! This is his second Championship win since moving to SC a few weeks ago!! He also won the NBHA North East Regional Championship.

TMcphail · Post by **TMcphail** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:59 pm

Of the pups I have had out of both, the Bull pups seem to have better tails. Cash pups are usually a little cleaner though and have more size. Scott has some really nice young dogs out of Gigolo right now, and you are starting to see a few wins out of his derbys. Gigolo has not been bred near as much as Cash although there pedigrees are almost the same. Just flip flop the top and bottom side. No surprise Finance won over the weekend he is a nice dog. Congrats to Scott.

Ross,
You mentioned in a previous post you have a good transporter for dogs to Mo. Care to PM me a #.

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:53 am

I'll post his name and number here for anyone interested in transport services. I have been extremely satisfied and his rates are very reasonable.

Miles Guffy 417-247-0533

Drifter Saver · Post by **Drifter Saver** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:19 am

I recently whelped a litter that was sired by a son of Bull and the dam is a daughter of Cash...I appearantly like them both

Truly I do. 7 pups were whelped. 2 had 12:00 tail sets and perfect tails at 7 weeks. 3 had good tails sets and 2 had sub-par tail sets. I kept one of the "sub-pars" and his tail is pretty darn nice at 22 weeks.

2 of them were clean, 2 were dirty and 3 had one spot on them.

All of that to say...one of the best ways to guess what you are going to get is to do a repeat breeding where you have already seen the initial results.

You wouldn't have Cash if you didn't have Bull

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:26 am

...I apparently like them both.

Drifter, I'm with you!! I like all the Honky Tonk stuff. I have pups and dogs from Bull, Cash, Ben and even a Gigolo son. Love the stuff!

From the "other end" of the dog, they produce FANTASTIC noses!! Real quality noses ...and honestly, that's what drew me to them to begin with.

CherrystoneWeims · Post by **CherrystoneWeims** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:35 am

Hey, Ross, I saw Matt with his pup on Sat. What a great looking pup!! Beautiful head. More dish looking than what I've traditionally seen on field bred EP's. Nice conformation too!

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:49 am

Hey Pam,

Thanks, his pup is out of Sarah and Strut. He has some WHEELS!! He is fast and flashy!! I think he is very happy with him. He compliments his big 'ole GSP very nicely.

CherrystoneWeims · Post by **CherrystoneWeims** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:59 am

I think he is happy also from the comments he was making about the pup.

I'm trying to get together with him so that we can run our pups together. Scarlett is outrunning all of the other unbroke Weims around here. I'm running her in a trial in two weeks in Puppy and Derby.

mtlee · Post by **mtlee** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:27 pm

Ross,

Gent is doing great! I put him on some pigeons this afternoon after class...rock solid...He would not break on the first bird, even after I kicked around for a while! He has got some serious style to boot! He handled real nice this past weekend as well at Bonneau Ferry. Heading up your way this weekend...I've called you a few times...give me a ring!

Pam,

I'll be out of town this weekend...maybe next weekend will work out for us?? Thanks for the compliments!

Big Dave · Post by **Big Dave** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:50 pm

What happened to the NSTRA Ch Honky Tonk Rack?

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:07 pm

What happened to the NSTRA Ch Honky Tonk Rack?

He was out of HTA x Kooter's Skunky Skunk.

What a great name for a Pointer!

Do you know what her lines were?

Big Dave · Post by **Big Dave** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:24 pm

Kooter's Skunky Skunk was a sister to Ranger's Barshoe Angel the big winning NSTRA champion. Skunk and Angel's sire was double bred Barshoe, his name was Right Ranger and he was a multiple NSTRA champion. Rack was a NSTRA champion son of Honky Tonk Attitude and was siring winning pups in NBHA and NSTRA and then just almost disappeared. His breeding would show some linebreeding off the old Rebel lines with Addition's Go Boy, Barshoe Brute and Barshoe Buzzsaw.

12 Volt Man · Post by **12 Volt Man** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:33 am

Great discussion. A lot of my favorite dogs have been mentioned here. I have been thinking for a long time about getting a pup out of Attitude's High Finance. I really like the high head Fiddler style that comes through in the Honky Tonk Dogs.

I know of a dog owned locally that is a direct son of Bull called Honky Tonk Hangover. That dog has all the style and is one of the cleanest marked dogs you'll ever see. He has some NSTRA points and I think they ran in the Honky Tonk incentive trial.

I have a male out of Honky Tonk Rack. Rack was a 5 time NSTRA champ before he was 3. He was handled by Rick Meyer who owns Ranger's Barshoe Angel mentioned above. I am not 100% sure of the details, and I've heard a couple of different stories on what happened to Rack, so I'll just give the basics.

Rack was being bred pretty heavily. Rick didn't own Rack, there was some sort of disagreement about the breeding rights. Rack ended up sterile. Then that's the last I have heard about Rack.

My Cowboy is out of Rack and there is a big difference between Cowboy and Cooper my Elhew Dog. The Elhew dog pretty much was a natural at everything and trained himself after we showed him 3 birds. The dog out of Rack is high powered, 100% go, and knotheaded. You have to try and contain his power. I like both kind of dogs for different reasons. The dog I have out of Rack also has a bit of a sickle tail.

birdogg42 · Post by **birdogg42** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:56 am

Hey Ross, how big is Ben? Does he usually throw pretty clean pups? My Gyp is very small,(35lbs) I would like to try to get a little more size.

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:56 pm

g42,

He goes 50-52 in condition. He throws legs and clean bodies.

Bens wins THIS year!!!!!

Nat Amatuer Invitional Ru-ch
Nat Amatuer Champion
Southeastern Open Champion
Nat Free For All Ru-CH
Several hr classic wins, Missouri state classic,Oklahoma state classic
He will be Amatuer dog of the year in the Nation
Produced Nat open and amatuer puppy of year last year. Derby of yr this year most likely

Yeah, he's the real deal!

Drifter Saver · Post by **Drifter Saver** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:41 am

Big Dave wrote:Kooter's Skunky Skunk was a sister to Ranger's Barshoe Angel the big winning NSTRA champion. Skunk and Angel's sire was double bred Barshoe, his name was Right Ranger and he was a multiple NSTRA champion. Rack was a NSTRA champion son of Honky Tonk Attitude and was siring winning pups in NBHA and NSTRA and then just almost disappeared. His breeding would show some linebreeding off the old Rebel lines with Addition's Go Boy, Barshoe Brute and Barshoe Buzzsaw.

Rack is bred extremely close to my Drifter dog who is directly out of HTA and Ranger's Barshoe Angel. I thought Rack went sterile...

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:43 pm

Here are some Cash pups that I shot this morning!! Pretty NICE!!

CH SHADOWS ATTITUDE x RUCH WANNABE BARBIE

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:35 pm

Those pups are nice. Have super rear leg angulation. The pics make the feet look a little flat and splayed more thamn I like but it is impossible to judge a dog from a pic. They all have beautiful lines though.

Ezzy

BarkRidge · Post by **BarkRidge** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:12 pm

Yawallac wrote:Here are some Cash pups that I shot this morning!! Pretty NICE!!

Are those the dogs Scott Turner has for sale ?????

I know He is selling pups out of those two dogs right now.

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:13 pm

Ezzy,

This is a repeat breeding. The first time was very successful. These are the pups he is selling. He is keeping the best five! I'd take any one of these little culls.

Big Dave · Post by **Big Dave** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:17 pm

What is the breeding on the dam, Barbie?

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:31 pm

NC Honky Tonk Highrise x Something About Mary

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:54 pm

Are those the dogs Scott Turner has for sale ?????

barkridge,

Yes, these are Scott's pups. They come here for additional socialization, bird intro, etc. until they sell. Lots of hands on and lots of birds.

At the end of each day the pine woods in the background of this video are full of birds from training dogs all day. I release pups in waves from the kennel. As you'll see from these 11 week old pups they QUICKLY learn to get to the woods!! ...

http://www.caladenkennels.com/gallery/pups01.MPG

Ryan Baumann · Post by **Ryan Baumann** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:10 pm

that is the funniest thing i have ever seen ywallac. those pointers need a slow structured intro to birds don't ya know!!!!!

I'm still laughing with happiness. nothing better than that.

SO YOU THINK YOU WANT SOME THING OTHER THAN A POINTER???

NOT ME!

Gun Dog Forum

Shadows Attitude or Honky Tonk Attitude?

Shadows Attitude or Honky Tonk Attitude?

I have worked 3 lately