Gun Dog Forum

How long do you honestly ask a dog to stand through a flushing effort?

Case in point:
I was working a dog Wednesday that is fairly well broke and I hope to be Trialing come Fall. I had actually been focusing on his honor where he needs improvement and decided to reward him for a respectable job with the clean up on a few Chukars. 1st bird he gives a nice point in some sedge, I put the bird up and I wiff with both barrels and watch it fly 300 yards across the field to the rivers edge. Figured I'd work him on down the fields edge, around the corner and back up the rivers edge to work the bird again. Tap him out and send him on, we work all the way down the edge, around and back up the river and can't relocate the bird.
Feeling like I've left him down, we continue on up the river, back around the next corner and on down the fence line when he locks up on point at a cluster of 20' Cedars.
This is where it starts to get fun. I kick around a bit, but can clearly see there is no bird on the ground, so I start looking up in the Cedars and sure enough, there sits a Chukar about 6' up. I go over and try to shake the bird out of the branches, all the while trying to figure out how I'm going to manage the shot when the bird goes. Welllll, this bird has no intention of flying and just hops up a few branches. So I call my Wife Jen over from the truck(50 yards away) and ask her to help, so I can at least try to be ready for a shot. Now mind you, the dog is still patiently standing and maintaining his style. She comes over and starts to poking at the bird with a branch and the bird just decides to go up another few branches. "I'll get that "bleep" out of there" she says and begins to climb up into the tree! As she goes up....so goes the bird. Finally, she manages to shake the branches out from under the bird near the top and it fluttered down to the ground at the base of the next tree. That tightens the boy up a bit and he begins to quake. "Just stay there" she says, as she fights her way down through the Cedar branches.... "I'm going to punt that bird if I have too"! So down she comes and the bird runs into a lil clump of Multiflora and she punts in behind it and the bird goes up....... right back up into the next Cedar! Now about this time, along comes a neighbor boy and he decides to get in on all the fun. Jen goes up the tree and persuades the bird to go back to the ground, but now we have a bit of extra help. The neighbor goes to flush and the bird starts to running around in the Multiflora, so Jen comes down and the two of them start trying to get this bird to fly.... reminded me of a greased pig catching contest! I've been watching the dog and he is still patiently standing, hasn't let down and I know we just gotta get this bird in the air! I get in on the chase and FINALLY, the bird gets up and flys straight at my dog about 15' off the ground. Now from my placement, I can see plenty of air and am shooting up and away from the dog and have a safe shot. I hit it with the first barrel and it hits the ground 5' in front of the dog and HE BROKE! He fetched it up and delivered it to hand.... BUT HE BROKE! Now he withstood probably 20 minutes or more of this 3 ring circus for me to finally kill the bird for him and I just didn't have the heart to correct him.

So just how much do you really expect of them?
I'm human and would have surely blown up after about 5 minutes, if not from anticipation, then from laughter!

Got any stories of some extremely ridiculous flushing attempts that your dog stood?

I would have kissed him.
Where is Springfield ?

Hampshire County near Romney, in the Eastern Panhandle.

I'm in Beckley. My GSP's sire is out of Longacres Kennel in Winchester, VA not too far from you.

I hear you have a Grouse or two down that way
Winchester is a bit less than an hour. I'm not familiar with the Longacres Kennel name; Do you know who runs it?

Janet Long owns Long Acre Kennels. Believe the are in Stephens City, VA.

I ask my dog to stand until I send him for the retreive - period. With that in mind, I am reasonable and never would put a dog in a situation where it will fail. It takes time to build up to hold point for 20 minutes plus, so I am careful during training sessions.

Nitrex

Fieldmaster wrote:Janet Long owns Long Acre Kennels. Believe the are in Stephens City, VA.

It is Stephens City, VA. Just before you get into Winchester on 81.

At the last trial we lost Abbey half way through the GD stake. At time I pulled the tracker. We had her standing. Unfortunately I followed the tracker 180 degrees off right to the dog wagon. No Abbey. Turned the tracker at 180 in the direction I'd ridden and still had a good strong signal showing she was still standing. I was in the very next brace so I couldn't go find her. Gave the tracker to a friend.

We found abbey half way through the brace still standing in the same place. No letting down, just dead broke.

Handled Bullett to about sixty yards from her, he backed. I worked it, gave her a big kiss on the head and put her on my buddy's horse so he could take her in.

I normally don't make a dog stand more than five or ten minutes on purpose, but this showed the value of having a dead broke very honest dog.

If you have AA dogs this is essential as there will be times they will be found on point to the front after a very long absence and this can be the difference between a win, or a dog bringing you back a bird after a long absence to the front. CR

After shaking the tree and not being able to get the bird up...I would have gotten the dog out of there. The longer they stand through those crazy times....the more apt they are to let down. Those are the times that I carry a pigeon in my vest and release it so the dog doesn't start to let down......... 5-10 minutes of standing like Charlie says is plenty.........

Judy


www.crystalkennels.com

Dog did good but I don't make a dog stand thru that. When the bird started climbing the tree, I'd have shot it out. That was one heck of a lot of pressure on the dog. In the field, I'll get to the dog and get the bird up ASAP. But again I don't tramp around looking for bird. I take a line off the dogs nose, work my way to the dog and if no bird, I relocate. If the dog won't relocate, then I go back and look better.

I drill my dogs on relocating that way. I send them into a bird I know is there and pop it when they get about eight or ten yds from it. Once they are there, they learn that relocating then moves the bird and they will not relocate then.

I think some people get to carried away seeing how long their dog will stand a bird. Point in fact; at some point the dog will either take the bird or leave it, guaranteed! The quicker you get the bird out and move on and the more times you do it, the longer it will stand. It's kinda like the whoa drill. Your dog might stand on whoa all day but, the first time it did it it sure didn't. The more times the dog is whoa'd, the longer it stands. The more times the dog is whoa'd, the farther away it will whoa. But if you whoa your dog and leave it standing there, at some point it's gonna either leave or try to. If your not in sight, it will leave at some point.

Success comes in small steps!

I really didn't want to make him stand that long and normally would never subject a dog to that much pressure, or time standing. He did very good considering! Had the bird not dropped right in front of him, I don't believe for 1 second that he would have broke. The Gunner(me!) really blew that one dropping the bird almost at his feet!

Judy,
Your absolutely right! I really should have had a pigeon in my pocket and just got him the heck out of there. I didn't want to pull him off of a point and at that point really felt I HAD to reward him for doing such a good job.

You know Don, I had thought about just shooting it out of the tree, but at that point I think Jen was taking it a bit personal between her and the bird! Might have had to do with all the scratches and scrapes she got trying to climb up through the dense branches of that Cedar! She is a bit of a determined gal and it is best for me to not argue with her when she speaks with conviction!

Pup did good, real good and I was very pleased with how he held his style and never let down. I don't believe I hurt him any, but I certainly won't subject him to that again.

For me it depends on what I'm working on at the time. If it's getting ready for a test or off-season training, I like them handled with no exceptions being allowed.

For hunting, it depends on the game. Grouse I want them holding but I can't always see if they don't. Pheasants, once they know the game and have a bit of seasoning on wild birds, I like them to relocate on their own, but I'll send them on if I can't find the bird in a short amount of time.

I probably would have just shot it out of the tree then send him the retrieve....

I don't have problems with this, we work a different system this side of the pond. The dog points the bird, I get to the dog , that can take 10 minutes, I send the dog in to make the flush. Its' nose takes it into the bird and puts it into the air. I shoot it - or try to The dog is sent to retrieve it - it's different - but it does work.

Bill T.

Longacre Kennel was in Stephens City but Janet and Mike moved to New Mexico a couple of years ago.
Sounds like a hoot with all the antics to get the bird.
Mary

Dog did better than I should have ever asked.
Antics? Your being polite.... it was a Circus gone way bad!

Hopefully, between dog, horses, Scout(Jen I hope) and myself....we'll have our teamwork polished come Fall.

I think our wives would get along quite well.
Impressive that your dog held that long.
I'm guessing you didn't completely miss the bird the first time - probably had a pellet or 2 in him.
Maybe your dog needs to learn to climb cedar trees?

Determined is she?!

In a very good way, yes.