Releasing Birds

[Llewellin01]

I have 100 quail chick coming in about 3 weeks. I read that if you would like re-introduce wild birds to an area, you can release chicks that are about 7-8 weeks old in 12-15 bird coveys. Has anyone heard of this or tried it and had success, or am I wasting birds. Im not going to do it with all maybe 12 at the most and keep the rest for training. It would jsut be nice to have a covey of wild birds on my property.

[lvrgsp]

If I were you I wopuld build a Johnny house for the quail to recall back to, and use them like that, Johnny house birds after a few releases start flying and acting like wild birds. You can get plans online for a Johnny house design, they are not a lot of money. You can release the birds but not knowing the predation on your grounds, the cover, food plots, those things play more into how the quail will survive, I would go with a Johnny house for now.

JMO,
Chip

[KY Grouse Hunter]

If your looking to just restore the quail population in an area then I would just release them. If you are looking to have birds to train with, I would go with the Johnny House. Reason being is predators will not have much availibility to your birds.

[Llewellin01]

Im only planning on releasing 15 at the most just one covey. The other 85 will be in the JH for training.

[topher40]

Your best bet for re population is to Pray, and Pray Hard!! Next best thing is a quail surragator unit. If you are wanting to just turn birds loos then plan on loosing them all or at least 98%. Even with 98% mortality you dont have much chance in the others making it withought the covey. Sorry to be so grim on the outlook but its just facts.

I know some people will get on here and say I am wrong, thats ok. Your circumstances are probably different that most. If this is something you really want to do then get some money together and talk to your local wildlife and parks office or quail forever chapter to give you the best chances at restoring "wild" bird populations. Good luck and let us know how things turn out!

[tfbirddog2]

I would release 10 pairs(rooster,hen) and you might have chicks maybe.I did the recall pen with ours and I think it helped them out greatly, by late august I took out the recall pen. and all is still good that was six years ago.

[ezzy333]

If you want to restore a wild covey the only way I have seen it be sucessful is to use a bareel type johnny house and get your chicks eating a small grain mixture while confined. AFter w eek or so when the birds are 8 weeks or so old open the house and have the same feed available for them nearby under some brush that will give them overhead protection.

Your numbers are about right to start a covey. Hopefully they will stck fairly close for a few weeks and when they are approx. 10 weeks old they will start calling. Once they do that they can call each other and gather into their new covey.

Older birds just do not work and large numbers won't either as these young birds need to be familiar with each other to form the covey. Give it a try with a few chicks and if you have a good habitat to release them in it can work.

Ezzy

[WildRose]

If you don't have any wild birds left, then using something like the surrogator, covey house, or small barrell houses like Ezzy describes are going to be about the only way you can count on any success at all.

When simply released into the wild PR birds show about a 90-95% death loss in the first 30 days in most studies.

If you have a pre-existing wild bird population you can get the wild birds coming into feeders and simply release 10-15 of the PR birds at the feeders when the wild pairs come in. Often the chicks will then imprint on the wild birds, follow them around, and simply become part of their "family". Give chicks 120 days to grow up with the wild "parents" and they'll be all but indistinguishable from the wild birds in your area at the same age.

I've seen good success with both the managed slow release such with the covey house/surrogator chicks, as well as with the latter.

Simply turning them loose though to fend for themselves even if good food and water are available though I've not ever seen be productive. CR

[h20fwlkillr]

If you have any wild birds at all, I would not release. Pen raised birds can carry diseases that they are immune to, but wild population may not. Most states prohibit releasing birds for just that reason. As Wildrose stated, most released birds run 90% + mortality under good conditions. If habit is poor or marginal, don't expect any to make it. Best bet for a covey, is habitat improvement and the birds will come.

[gunner]

QUOTE: "Pen raised birds can carry diseases that they are immune to, but wild population may not. Most states prohibit releasing birds for just that reason."

I'm curious what states don't allow releases and for those interested here's what a professional bird biologist wrote about pen reared bird diseases and wild bird populations.
http://www.gundogsonline.com/ArticleSer ... 78F8DC0385

[SportDog77]

The odds of bringing a wild population back with pen raised birds is not pretty. There is a reason the quail forever foundation wont let ANY of its chapters invest proceeds to releasing pen raised quail.

From raising quail, one thing has stuck out the most about pen raised quail, they DONT KNOW how to sit on their eggs to incubait them. So suppose you did get lucky enough to have some adults come mating season, they would lay eggs but the odds of them hatching those eggs are pretty much null. You would have to hope for a pen raised bird to pair up with a wild one in which case the wild one would sit it the other didnt.

How big is that Johnny house? 85 birds seems like a lot.

[gunner]

QUOTE: "they DONT KNOW how to sit on their eggs to incubait them. So suppose you did get lucky enough to have some adults come mating season, they would lay eggs but the odds of them hatching those eggs are pretty much null. "

The banded pen raised birds that I winter over and train on from my johnny houses are now beginning to show some signs of pairing off as they do every year.

These birds have been released at least once a week, often times more, from johnny houses that I installed them as 9 week old birds late the previous August and they now show behaviours similiar to wild birds. I do expect this years class of birds that I'll release soon, to pair off, establish territory, build nests, lay eggs and bring off successful broods as has my experience in past years.

I can show coveys gone wild wearing bands of birds realeased from previous years releases with unbanded birds I'm sure were the young of these johnny house released birds. These coveys often come together in the fall shuffle.

Pen-reared birds can mate sucessfully and pair with each other or with wild birds and produce young as the research from the biologists at the Ames Plantation and elsewhere has shown.

[SportDog77]

The banded pen raised birds that I winter over and train on from my johnny houses are now beginning to show some signs of pairing off as they do every year.

Just because they are flushing, surviving, eating, pairing off; like wild birds has nothing to do with being able to sit on their eggs 20-23
hours a day for 23 days or knowing how for that matter.

Im not saying it cant happen just that the likelyhood is just about Null.
My birds laid over 400 eggs last year. On a few occassions I would catch a hen sitting on the nest but they didnt do it consistently enough to actually hatch them.

I can show coveys gone wild wearing bands of birds realeased from previous years releases with unbanded birds I'm sure were the young of these johnny house released birds. These coveys often come together in the fall shuffle.

I dont doubt that any survivors woudl have mixed with wild covey's, thats pretty much what I was saying about having to pair up with wild birds.

But when you dont have any wild birds and you are trying to bring back a wild population with Pen raised birds, you are pretty much wasting a whole lot of time and money. IMHO

[ezzy333]

I think you will find the birds don't sit on their nests in your pen is because they are in your pen. Turn them out where they can hide their nests and not be disturbed and they will set. What you are experiencing with your birds is the same problem you have with all wild animals when in a pen and not in their natural habitat. Zoos have had the problem for years and I have seen the same thing in birds,

Ezzy

[SportDog77]

Ezzy I wish that were the case, however it has been proven over and over again by numerous universities and biologist that have set up cameras and tracking devices on released birds. I dont have those means so a few years ago I started doing the research. I have yet to find solid evidence that it does work but have found numerous sources that it doesnt work...

Here is a short article that better explains what I am trying to say.> Just too many variables..
http://fwf.ag.utk.edu/personnel/harper/penquail.pdf

[h20fwlkillr]

QUOTE: "Pen raised birds can carry diseases that they are immune to, but wild population may not. Most states prohibit releasing birds for just that reason."

I'm curious what states don't allow releases and for those interested here's what a professional bird biologist wrote about pen reared bird diseases and wild bird populations.
http://www.gundogsonline.com/ArticleSer ... 78F8DC0385

Here are quotes from various state wildlife websites.

Louisiana--- Pen-reared quail usually have very low survival rates, and thus are not an effective way to restore quail populations. As part of a research project conducted on Sandy Hollow WMA in Tangipahoa Parish, 30 pen-reared female bobwhites were radio-tagged and released in good habitat. Over 50% of the birds died within 3 days of release, and 96% were dead within 30 days. In Virginia, the average survival rate of pen-reared and F-1 (one generation removed from the wild) bobwhites was less than 6 days, and all were dead within 41 days. Even wild bobwhites have mortality rates of over 75% per year. It is unrealistic to expect that birds raised in captivity would have a better chance of survival than wild birds. There are some techniques that hunting preserves use to improve survival of released birds. These may increase the survival of released birds through the hunting season, but do not appear to have a significant impact on the breeding population of bobwhites. Improving habitat is the only way to effectively increase bobwhite populations.

Note: Louisiana law and Wildlife and Fisheries regulations prohibit release of bobwhite quail into the wild except on licensed hunting preserves or under a dog-training permit.

Virginia---Individuals are prohibited from releasing captive stocks or offspring to the wild, except as follows:
Captive bred and raised bobwhite quail, ring-necked pheasant, Hungarian partridge, chukar, and/or mallard duck, including all subspecies, may be released on licensed shooting preserves under conditions specified for shooting preserves.

Missouri---Fortunately, wild and domestic birds seldom come into contact with each other, thereby reducing the opportunity for disease to spread. Potential for the transmission of disease is a major reason why releasing domestic birds into the wild is not only discouraged, but is illegal.

Most states only allow release with special permit. Most times it will be a preserve or dog training permit only. I know here in Mo, they are starting to refuse permits in certain quail and prairie chicken restoration areas due to the possibility of pen and wild birds coming into contact and possible spreading of disease.

[WildRose]

Actually through my own experience and having discussed it in detail with several well respected "quail biologists" there's little to no evidence whatsoever that healthy PR birds released into the wild pose any thread of disease to wild populations. Now of course go dumping obviously sick birds and you might well crete a problem. However as a general rule wild populations of any species that is also raised in captivity will have much better disease resistance than their captive cousins since mother nature doesn't medicate food and water as needed whenever there is a disease outbreak. Those that have strong immunity live, those that don't, don't. None of our domestic animals has any where near the disease resistance of their wild counterparts.

My experience has also been very similar to other's in that we have for over twenty years seen banded released birds paired with and raising broods with their wild counter parts.

What the studies qoted accurately show is that just dumping adult PR birds loose in the wild is a no win, money losing situation.

None of those studies quoted however talks at all about what several of us have suggested which is taking young birds, slowly acclimating them to the wild with short term releases, and then letting them go completely feral over time.

I have no idea who the desk bound burearcrat is that says "wild birds don't interact with released PR birds" (paraphrased) but it's completely inaccurate. When a BW starts calling for friends he'll take up with he first BW that shows up, and if it's a wild bird, the wild bird is not going to check him for a leg band.

We see wild and released birds "interacting" at the same feeders every day on our training leases, and those of other dog trainers in the area.

Just because something isn't "proved by university research" doesn't make it untrue. When was the last time you saw a university published article proving that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west? Is it now therefore untrue that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west since it can't be documented by university research? No it just means that no one at the university level has felt the need or desire to prove what's already understood.

CR

[gunner]

From a published article by well know quail biologist Ted Devos of Tall Timbers Research Station, quail research.

Q: Do pen-raised quail that survive into the spring nest and successfully rear broods?

A: Absolutely. Studies have shown that nearly all released birds surviving into the spring will nest and attempt to raise young. All reproductive characteristics (clutch size, hatchability, nest success, etc.) are nearly identical to wild birds. Around one-half of both wild and pen-raised quail existing in the summer will produce a brood.

Q: Will releasing pen-raised quail make wild quail more susceptible to disease outbreaks?

A: There has been some concern based primarily on the problems that have been noted with releasing pen-raised turkeys. However, there is no evidence to suggest that this is a problem with pen-raised quail. Most of the diseases pen-raised quail can potentially carry already exist within wild quail populations. It is also important to note that most disease outbreaks are usually a function of population density rather than the simple introduction of pen-raised individuals.

Q: Will the release of pen-raised quail adversely affect the diversity within the wild quail gene pool?

A: No. At present, there is no detectable genetic difference between wild quail and pen-raised birds. This is due primarily to the fact that extremely limited genetic selection has been undertaken with pen-raised quail. Further, there is a wide genetic base, or to use a forestry term, a wide selection of seed sources, being used within the pen-raised quail breeding market. As a result, a high degree of genetic diversity continues to persist within the pen-raised bird population.

[gunner]

Ezzy wrote: "I think you will find the birds don't sit on their nests in your pen is because they are in your pen. Turn them out where they can hide their nests and not be disturbed and they will set. "

Exactly. I've often noted that the hens will drop eggs throughout the pens floors, I've never noticed any hen to attempt to build a nest and incubate.
Those same hens when soft released after months of being "trained" of being in and out of the johnny houses when allowed to pair off with a male and allowed to establish "territory" will act exactly like what quail researcher Devos wrote above.
They will pair, nest, incubate and bring off broods.
You do have to have good habitat.