Breeder Research

PAHunter · Post by **PAHunter** » Tue May 03, 2005 5:33 am

I'm planning to purchace a GSP this winter 06. I've been doing a lot of research on breeders and I've been in contact with several of them. I'm starting to get informational packets in the mail telling me about their planned winter breedings. I want to narrow my list and start to make some visits to see thier dogs and facilities. What should I be looking for when I review the packets? I want to make an educated desicion and I know there are alot of you out there that can help.

Thanks

honeyrun · Post by **honeyrun** » Tue May 03, 2005 5:46 am

Just my opinion, in no specific order:

1) Find a breeder that is (and has) produced the type of hunting dog that you are looking for, as in range, type of birds hunted and temperament.

2) Find a breeder that HUNTS their dog, not one that says, "Yep, my dogs will hunt" and doesn't hunt themselves. The more addicted a breeder is to hunting, you up your odds for a good hunting dog.

3) Find a breeder that you feel you can trust and communicate with. Buying a pup is a 12 - 15 year committment, and that breeder should be there for you every step of the way.

4) You will, in the end, "Buy" the breeder, select the litter and then pick a pup.

5) If at all possible, make arrangements to see at least the mother work in the field. If the breeder him haws around, then offer to bring the birds. A breeder should WANT to show off their dogs when ever the opportunity arrises.

Good luck, and look at this as an opportunity to gain valuable information and make future friendships.

Gregory · Post by **Gregory** » Tue May 03, 2005 6:13 am

I agree with Cindy.
If you don't have Fieldmaster'sshorhairs.netkennel.com. on your list, You will be well served if you included them as a breeder of quility shorhairs to your list.......

G.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Tue May 03, 2005 6:16 am

In my opinion, the first thing to look at is the primary breeding purpose of the breeder. Are they breeding primarily for show, for field trialing, a "dual" dog, or "foot hunter", etc.

Then ask the breeder what events they participate in. If they are breeding a dual dog but they only show and don't hunt, trial, etc., I'd have reservations about the dual-ness of their dogs.

If they do hunt tests and their dogs don't have anything higher than Junior Hunter (JH), I'd question the dual-ness of their dogs. It may be that the sire or dam only has Senior Hunter, but if they primarily do hunt tests, they should have put Master Hunter on some of their (older) dogs.

The second thing to look for is the purpose behind the particular breeding your looking at. If there isn't a purpose or "to have some puppies", go somewhere else.

Those two should get you from a long list down to a short list.

I would also talk to knowledgeable people in the GSP community that you aren't going to get a pup from and see what they think of the breeders on your short list. You might also ask the breeders for referrals.

Brenda Roe, who posts here, and her S.O. Rick Hopkins are my breeders and they are very knowledgeable about the breed. I'm incredibly pleased with the pup I have from them and I know Grant is happy with his pup. I doubt you can get in on their litters at this time, but I'm bringing them up to give you someone to get direction from.

Good Luck!,

Country-Side Breeders · Post by **Country-Side Breeders** » Tue May 03, 2005 7:17 am

Like the rest of the folks mentioned here...choose a breeder that has the kind of dog you're looking for, be it hunting in trials or weekend hunters, showing, combo, house dog, kennel dog, etc. Make sure their is a written health guarantee, get references and follow up on them, check out the pedigrees to see if they are in fact the lines that will fit your needs...some are born to range out far and others are better at working close. Questions, questions, questions...any that come to mind, ask the breeder. No matter if you make up a list and ask them all at once, or every time one pops into your head...you should get a honest response back without getting any hassles for how often or how many you're asking. Anything that comes to mind, ask it. If you aren't getting the answers you're looking for, go to the next one.

PAHunter · Post by **PAHunter** » Tue May 03, 2005 8:32 am

Great Feedback

I havent found this topic on a forum yet.

I'm looking at primarily NAVHDA breeders that are somewhat close to where I live because I want to become friends with a breeder and feel comfortable asking them questions. So far my research has been alot of fun and everyone has been so helpful. I'm just getting excited, its been a boyhood dream of mine to have a hunting dog.

I want to get one in the winter of this year so that I can start bonding and try out some of the basic training techniques in my basement to maximize training time. Then really get into the full swing of things when the snow stops. (Can't this year I have to much work to do on my house - remodeling)

Thanks for the help,
Josh

honeyrun · Post by **honeyrun** » Tue May 03, 2005 9:02 am

Josh,

You might be interested in checking out Litter #3 on my website.

If you are looking for a male, there may be one or two yet available. I just did the breeding last weekend, so they wouldn't be ready to go till sometime around the end of August.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Tue May 03, 2005 9:25 am

Walnut Hill Kennels has some very good GSP's ....Brenda does alot of different things with her GSP's.

brenda is a.k.a snips

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Tue May 03, 2005 11:13 am

kninebirddog wrote:Walnut Hill Kennels has some very good GSP's ....Brenda does alot of different things with her GSP's.

brenda is a.k.a snips

http://www.walnuthillgsps.us/ is their website.

My pup, Gunner, from them is a serious butt-kicking GSP:

http://www.gundogforum.com/forum/album_ ... b5e929.jpg

Best,

volraider · Post by **volraider** » Tue May 03, 2005 11:43 am

We need more info on what you are planning on using your pup for. Here is a link for GSP breeders, stay away from show kennels even if they have a JH title they are still show dogs. Look for dogs that are MH or NAVHDA titles in their pedigrees if you are looking for a foot hunting dog and look for FC and AFC if you are wanting a dog with a little more run.

http://www.cbel.com/german_shorthaired_pointer_dogs/

PAHunter · Post by **PAHunter** » Tue May 03, 2005 1:06 pm

Its all foot hunting here! Lot's of grouse in PA - a few ditch chicken mostly stocked by the PGC. Also I live in Prime goose and duck country, so I'm looking closely at NAVHDA lines.

Volraider great link
lots of new stuff to explore!

Thanks,
Josh

snips · Post by **snips** » Tue May 03, 2005 1:15 pm

Boy, I agree with Cindy here. Her litter #3 would probaly get what you want, plus it`s in your state. Shes a Grouse hunter plus participates in versatile avenues.

honeyrun · Post by **honeyrun** » Tue May 03, 2005 1:34 pm

Plus, the sire of the litter is a son of Brenda's 10x NSTRA CH Snips Ticked Off, SH.

Dave Gowdey · Post by **Dave Gowdey** » Mon May 09, 2005 12:21 am

I'd just add a couple of things to Cindy's excellent post.

I'd spend some time asking the breeder about what kind of dogs they're breeding and what characteristics they emphasize in their breeding program. Things like cooperativeness or independence, biddability, natural pointing and retrieving instinct, range, nose, temperament, size and conformation, etc. are all primarily genetic characteristics. They are also the critical building blocks for any bird dog. Make sure that you clearly understand what the breeder means when they talk about these characteristics because they can have a variety of definitions depending upon who is talking. Biddability and cooperativeness to an all age breeder means something completely different from what a hunter would define them to be. Get examples of any behavior/characteristic if you suspect you and the breeder may be talking apples and oranges.

Any good breeder will be able to tell you the characteristics they shoot for in their pups - and give you a good idea of what kind of dog your pup should be when it grows up. The first thing you should do is make sure that the breeder share's your priorities. If he/she is emphazing range and independence, while you are looking for biddability and nose, then you should seek another breeder. You want a breeder who shares your vision of what a dog should do and be. And while it's good to listen to breeders and evaluate what they are saying, don't let someone sell you on the idea that you are wrong in your opinions unless they have taken you to the hunting woods and demonstrated it to your satisfaction. More dogs wind up in the pound because a breeder talked a good game and sold a pup to a person for which it was unsuited than any other single reason in my opinion.

Whatever breeder you deal with - CHECK REFERENCES. And that means HUNTERS. Ask the references the same sorts of questions about characteristics that you asked the breeder, to insure that you were getting the straight dope. Some breeders will tell you what you want to hear. Many may unintentionally glance over some issues that you would find to be of concern. The folks that own the pups and hunt them are ultimately the best placed to evaluate the product.

I'd also say that it isn't necessary to buy a pup from a big kennel or breeder. Many of them do a wonderful job -and the names brought up so far are all well respected. However, you may often be able to find outstanding dogs, closer to home, being bred by experienced hobby breeders. Some of the best dogs have always been bred by hunters whose sole purpose was to improve the breed and make sure that their next generation of hunting dogs was better than their last (and by "improve" I mean within the standard - not crossbreeding or trying to turn out miniature GSPs).

Finally, go and see the stud and dam in person. See them work if possible, but if not, at least try to meet them and learn what you can about them. If you can't, try and get pictures, videos, independent references, or whatever other information you can about the stud and dam. The pup will be a combination of what you see, so if you don't like the stud or dam - odds are you won't like the pup. and Vice Versa of course.

snips · Post by **snips** » Mon May 09, 2005 6:33 am

Hi Dave, welcome to the GDF. How did an Az guy end up in Wy?

Post by **kninebirddog** » Mon May 09, 2005 12:33 pm

Well they say if you can't stand the heat get out of Arizona...or was it the kitchen ? lol

Just got back home and man it is to hot in AZ ready to go back east again or up north

Dave Gowdey · Post by **Dave Gowdey** » Mon May 09, 2005 10:49 pm

Brenda,

Great to hear from you!! The answer is simple -a new job. I got hired as the Executive Director of the Wyoming Wildlife Federation in January, a great job at the head of a great organization. Poverty with a view just got to be too much in the end.

Of course I wound up leaving during the wettest winter in 20 years, one that is sure to breed a bumper crop of quail next year, to move to what they now tell me is the worst bird hunting state in the west. Oh, well. I guess I'll be driving back down to Arizona for a few weeks this fall and winter

If Rick is going to be heading back - ask him if he'd be interested hooking up for a day or two.

I hope you guys have been doing well. Give my best to Rick -and pets for all the dogs.

snips · Post by **snips** » Tue May 10, 2005 6:36 am

Rick is planning a sad but quick trip back to join up with his good friends son to hunt their special place and spread his ashes there. Rick met this guy while guiding Outdoor Life and they were good friends hunting and guiding together ever since. He sad to be sure and let him know when and where you`ll be hunting and you guys might hook up...

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Tue May 10, 2005 10:10 am

Hey Dave, at least you can look forward to good Sagehen hunting! I talk with a few people that say Wyoming is some great hunting for them.... Where,? I have no clue?

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