Gun Dog Forum

I am going to check out a pup tomorrow at Sharpshooters Kennels. I have heard nothing but great things about them. Anybody have a dog from there?

I don't have a dog from them, but Clyde did train my first GSP. He is incredible as a trainer. When I was there for a couple of days, I got to see several of Clyde and Marilyn's dogs in action. They were nothing short of phenomenal. I'm not sure how many NAVHDA versatile champions he's bred, trained and handled, but I know it's a bunch. I don't think you'll go wrong with one of their pups.

me personally i would never buy a dog from a big time trainer. We "southeast Michigan navhda chapter" Had him here for a seminar what an "fill in the blank" My personal opinion is he should be putting out champion dogs that's what he does for a living. So for him to have a prize one dog is that really so surprising?? He should that's all he does is train dogs. I bet if all i did was train dogs for ten years I could make a Dalmatian a prize one dog. If you go to the smaller breeders and look for talent in a dog i think you will be much happier with the dog. That way at-least you know you have a base line of talent not something that has been beaten into the blood line to make it look good. But that me.

You will not get a finer dog anywhere. There are tons of good breeders and many surely match the quality but none will surpass them if you are looking for a foot hunting dog/NAVHDA dog.

I know lots of people that have their dogs and they are exactly what he represents them to be.

Think this is the first time I've seen anyone rip them on a web board or otherwise, but there's always someone out there I guess. My experience with them has been very good. Other people I've talked to have nothing but good to say about them.

I'll grant you that some of the dogs Clyde and Marilynn breed have LOADS of desire and that may require a firm,consistent training hand to bring out the best in them--but those are nice dogs to start with, and I'd much rather have one with all the ability and drive than one you have to baby and encourage to do what you want. Most of their dogs go back to fairly well known lines too(Vom Enstrand/Hustler/Hege Haus/Vom Pottsiepen etc.), so I'd say it isn't just their training. And then there's all the pups they've had go on and do well.

Certainly a good place to go if you like the NAVHDA type dog, in my opinion.

I bet if all i did was train dogs for ten years I could make a Dalmatian a prize one dog.

I'll take that bet.

Sharpshooter kennel is an excellent source for quality GSPs IMO.

grousehunter08 wrote:...not something that has been beaten into the blood line to make it look good.

Not sure how you can beat something into a blood line. I have seen and heard very nice things about the Vetters and their dogs. Even from other GSP breeders/kennels.

One of my Dad's friends has 2 pups from them. They should be about a year old now. I haven't SEEN them since they were a few months old. I went over to his house and he was letting them chase ducks around in his pond, they sure weren't scared of the water to be little guys. I've talked with him since then and he seems to be happy with them. Thats about all the info I have on them. Good luck.

I have a hunting buddy with a dog from Sharpshooter Kennel, and he has had nothing but good things to say. As a member of NAVHDA its hard not to acKnowlege Clyde and Marilynn's contributing to the breed and the club. Good luck!

grousehunter08 wrote:me personally i would never buy a dog from a big time trainer. We "southeast Michigan navhda chapter" Had him here for a seminar what an "fill in the blank" My personal opinion is he should be putting out champion dogs that's what he does for a living. So for him to have a prize one dog is that really so surprising?? He should that's all he does is train dogs. I bet if all i did was train dogs for ten years I could make a Dalmatian a prize one dog. If you go to the smaller breeders and look for talent in a dog i think you will be much happier with the dog. That way at-least you know you have a base line of talent not something that has been beaten into the blood line to make it look good. But that me.

Where do you draw the line for a "big time trainer"? I'm not sure that I see how you can distinguish between someone who trains full time and someone who does it as a side gig. Personally, I'd rather have someone who does it for a living. Also, if they put out champion dogs isn't that a good indication of the ability of the trainer as well as the dog? I'd like to know what happened to give you such a poor opinion of the Vetter's after one training seminar. Sounds like some sour grapes on your end.

I've seen a number of Sharp Shooter dogs with serious flagging issues. I owned a couple of SS dogs that had severe health and temperament issues. I had one here three years ago for training that I sent home early because of temperament issues. Won't have another one. CR

IMHO!!!! I can say with the few Vetter dogs I have seen here in our chapter: I don't think those dogs are not for the average person. You better know what you are doing or you will just not have any fun. Now if you are a very good trainer that knows how to handle high energy and a lot of noise, more power to you. This may not be typical of other of his dogs. As for Clyde him self, I don't care for his personallity or his highlighted hair do, if he still has it. I don't like that he shot a duck in a Versitile champion test himself. I don't like that he tries to dictate in the field that your dog needs to where different colors than his and he will give the color he wants your dog to wear. He is supposed to come up here for a seminar. I may sit on the outside and watch, see if my opinion changes. No sour grapes here just observations. I have VC also.

There seem to be many happy people that have their dogs. I would pay attention to what CR said.

One of the things a GSP breeder friend of mine always says along with all the desire, temprament, performance, conformation and health requirements, is that part of the breeding should be a dog needs to be fairly easy to train.

I went and met with the Vetter's yesterday, I don't think you could find two nicer people IMHO. The dogs were all that I expected them to be and then some.

Would like to appologize for my personal observations on ones personality and actions. I started writing and it just came out. sorry.

Howie, I am picking up a pup from them on Sat in Wi. Where are these tests at? If I have some free time I would love to stop and check them out.

CR, just curious, can you tell me the names of the two sharpshooter dogs that you owned, and where you got them from?

Both came originally from SS. Both came from air force people being transferred to places they could not take them. Neither was ever permanently registered so no names. CR

Charlie which dogs were they out of and what was the health problems? Was the flagging genetic?

Thanks,
Brian

Brian it's been a long time for both. I have enough trouble keeping pedigrees straight on dogs I like, I sure don't have enough brain power to remember those I don't.

Is flagging genetic? I think in many cases it is. when you see it pop up often in a given line I think the evidence is pretty strong that it is. CR

Charlie et al,

We have never participated in this type of forum because they too routinely generate negative and libelous statements. However, multiple people have brought this string to our attention. So, in this instance, we are responding only to state the facts. We don't wish to participate in the bashing of anyone and/or their breeding programs as everyone has their own opinion of what the ideal dog is.

When we register puppies with NAVHDA we transfer ownership to the new owner which requires they be named. We have registered 140 dogs with NAVHDA and all have registered names. We have not sold a puppy or a dog to CR at Wild Rose. If one was sold to an air force enlistee and they were restationed, we were never notified by the original owner they were for sale or we would have offered to purchase the dog back. We question if possibly you have the wrong kennel in mind. You may want to refer to the pedigrees that seem to confound you.

If someone has purchased a dog from us and it is unhealthy, we would ask them to notify us as we would want to do the right thing by the purchaser. Life is too long to live with a dog with health issues and we would certainly do everything possible to fairly deal with the issue. If anyone has questions on our dogs pointing, desire and other attributes, we recommend you contact the many puppy owners with attached emails listed on our website. The overwhelming majority of our puppies are trained and handled by their owners and not us, so their feedback is critical to us and obviously to others. Additionally, a full report on Sharp Shooter dogs can be requested from NAVHDA. The numbers say more than we ever could. NAVHDA's office number is 847-253-6488.

While we strive to do the very best, we will never please everyone and quite honestly that isn't a concern for us as long as we are pleasing our customers!

Thank you for your time.

Best regards,

Clyde and Marilyn Vetter

By the way Rick, we both have highlights. Hopefully you like mine more than you like Clyde's.

I have not watched or been at any event with the vetters for quite some time,and as I now run mostly horseback events
What they are producing might not be the very best lines for what I want.
That being said,it can also be said,that I am in the minority of what want in a dog,while the majority of people,hunters
ect,want a dog more in what the vetters are producing.
I myself have never seen a sharpshooter dog with a temparment issue,and a tail that flags is not exclusive to navhda breed dogs,I even see it in trials,as it can be geneitic,or a product of training.
I do know that the vetters work very hard at what they do,if I wanted a pro to run a dog in navhda they would be hard to beat,and that they are honest people.

By the way Rick, we both have highlights. Hopefully you like mine more than you like Clyde's.

That's funny...

Marilyn, you must really be doing something right if some joker wants to point out a flaw or two in the many dogs you've bred, particularly when the so-called flaws most likely aren't genetic, but man made. I've hunted over your dogs and their get and found them to be really really nice dogs. I'm sure you'll lose sleep over those with no titles. Your reputation stands on its own. Talk means nothing. As they say, many need to "get off the porch".

Marylin I know you guys work hard and obviously produce dogs that a lot of people are happy with. My observations and experience are what they are. We were asked for our experiences and opnions, so I gave mine. CR

I owe Clyde and Marylin an apology so I'm going to make it before the ink dries on my last post.

The three dogs I was talking about were in fact NOT Sharpshooter's dogs, they were Shooting Starr bred dogs, as were the pups with the flagging problems I'd seen.

The SS was stuck in my head and I should have thought and looked a little deeper before I first replied.

I rarely find myself in a position where I feel I should apologize for anything I've said either in print or face to face, this however is one of those rare times and I've always been man enough to admit when I'm wrong.

You have my sincere apology. CR

PS you owe a thank you to Parshal who pm'd me and kicked my brain back into gear. CR

WOW! This thread should be moved to the "Hall of Fame" section. Charlie's right, he never admits he's wrong , not saying you ever have been though!

Well done Mr. Rose.

BTW, I can almost relate, as I too once thought I was wrong, only to discover later, I was mistaken.

Talk about a relief.

CR, like you I made a mistake just a few years ago and have always been very modest since. I hate repeated errors and I am living in constance fear that I maybe wrong again sometime. I always thought it was just unforgivable when someone makes more than a couple of mistakes in a life time and I only have one left. :roll:

Ezzy

Cr,out of the pan into the fire.Shooting starr dogs are known for there good attitudes,once again not bred for field trials
but for the navhda foot hunter.
I dont think you could find two navhda kennels with better reputations in navhda,and overall results in dogs they bred.

Such a heart felt apology from Charlie that the Vetters need to thank a third party (Parshal) for it.

cumberland wrote:Such a heart felt apology from Charlie that the Vetters need to thank a third party (Parshal) for it.

Cumber it's called giving credit where credit is due. Something Parshal (a friend of mine of many years) said in a PM to me kick started my brain on this subject and caused me to do some looking, digging, and thinking. It was his spurring my brain that caused me to do so, which led me to the inescapable conclusion I'd screwed up, and wrongfully besmirched a good breeder. I then apologized for having done so and gave Parshal the credit he deserved. CR

I agree, this thread has gone places I never imagined. Lets end it.

The Shooting Starr stuff is the foundation for much of the Sharp Shooter stuff so ........WHATEVER.

I like to draw my own conclusions on lines of dogs and I like both very much. "Flagging" is not something that I have seen in either "SS" line.

I have a lot of problem Pointers sent to me for training from many lines. I certainly have enough experience to realize that the majority of those issues did not originate from the "line". My suggestion would be that unless you have seen a problem in a much larger sampling of a line then ...two dogs, it might be prudent to refrain from commenting.

May I ask, what is flagging? I have seen gsps wag the tail until the point, is this flagging?

wagging the tail duringthe point

Good for you CR, when someone offers an apology when a mistake is made, for me, it makes the opinion that much more appreciated and weighted. Whether basd on 2 or 7 dogs it is opinion based on the experiences with those dogs. For those that don't like the opinions, fine, move on. I have a Clown bred dog and we know everyone love Clown bred dogs . I can't help it, I like the dogs I like. Anyway, Thanks again CR

I have had 3 clown bred dogs, well 2 were out of gen norman I sure liked em all. Were easy to train and loved to hunt and were natural retrievers. Thats me story and I am a stickin to it.

My best dog to date was from germany and a hege haus dog. Almost 20 years ago it was. Sure do miss that one.

My suggestion would be that unless you have seen a problem in a much larger sampling of a line then ...two dogs, it might be prudent to refrain from commenting.

Yaw I'd suggest you actually read my posts rather than skim. I've seen a lot more of them than I've owned or personally trained. The "sample" is much larger than three dogs. CR

Charlie,

2 dogs, 5 dogs, 10 dogs. Not enough to indict a line without knowing their specific background. Maybe a newbie wouldn't know that but you certainly do. Your comment was beneath your experience IMO. Sounded more like an agenda....

Even your apology was qualified... actually sounded like you were bragging ...about apologizing.

Dude.

Yaw I'll be sure and let you know when I think you're qualified to tell me when I can form an opinion. CR

As a guy who currently owns a shooting starr dog,an fc,mh multiple ut prize 1 dog,who I can take anywhere
be it to a school,nursing home,ect,ect and as I guy who has watched dozen's of them in training,I take
some displeasure in the posts,especially when jim and donna are not here to speak for themselves.
Shooting starr dogs were bred with the family guy in mind,great atititudes,friendly dogs.
As I earlier posted,they may not have the strongest tails or be all age or horseback shooting dogs,but that was never the goal.
Cr,as you know some trialers up here,ask them what line when bred to cecil,produced the most dominate navhda dogs?
hmm,could it be shooting starr stuff?
Ask dennis,about a dog named ranger,if you care to.
If you want to be negative,It is very easy.
I have one question? Have you ever ran a dog in navhda? through a ut test? Do you have any idea of what it takes?
I have to agree with yaw,you are not making your image any better by taking the negative road.
And as jim and donna are really not that active anymore,I think you can leave them alone.

this is why i just bird hunt, don't know many people and don't have to please anyone but me and my dogs. have 3 good dogs imo, maybe someone else's trash .i don't care. we have a great time .

Larue I've discussed the Shooting Starr dogs with Dennis in detail on several occasions. I gave an honest opinion, yes it's negative but so what? To say anythign different would be dishonest. I haven't said that "all" or "most" of the dogs have these problems, just that the problems were severe enough in too many of those I have seen that I wanted no more of them. That is an opinion I'm entitled to, or so I thought.

If my "image" is that I'm honest, whether it's pro or negative I can live with that.

You know I don't run in NAVHDA events but I have produced some dogs that did very well in that venue. CR

What a bunch of fluff this has become. If you know who you are, and you like what you've got--why give one person who doesn't like what you have any credence? Seems like there are plenty of fans of Sharp Shooters and Shooting Stars and the line has more than proven itself. Heck I've been looking into those lines for my next future pup. There is always someone who won't like what you have and feels the need to say so. Don't bring yourself down to the defensive mode. Denise

If my "image" is that I'm honest, whether it's pro or negative I can live with that.

Just so you know, I don't believe that is the "image" most folks get of you from this thread.

On the Ontario Dog Forum I help moderate, we don't allow people to ask questions about a kennel or trainer publicly.

This thread is the reason why.

You can ask , but all responses must be done by PM. People get the info they want without all the possible slander and rancour. Something to think about.

Sharon wrote: You can ask , but all responses must be done by PM. People get the info they want without all the possible slander and rancour. Something to think about.

Good idea Sharon.

We all have our opinions good or bad. But if someone has a problem with a particular line of dogs and or breeder/trainer, maybe it's best left for a PM and not posted on a public forum for everyone to see. Most especially if those in question are not here to defend themselves.

Chaingang wrote: Most especially if those in question are not here to defend themselves.

But they sometimes show up on here in the days following to defend themselves. Hey we get a new menber out of the deal.

Sharon wrote:On the Ontario Dog Forum I help moderate, we don't allow people to ask questions about a kennel or trainer publicly.

This thread is the reason why.

You can ask , but all responses must be done by PM. People get the info they want without all the possible slander and rancour. Something to think about.

I think this thread is a good example of why an OPEN, PUBLIC discussion is better. Had I simply shot the original questioner a PM I would have wrongly maligned Sharpshooter's dogs privately, my friend would not have spurred my memory and made me dig and look, and I would then have not been able to correct my mistake. Worse yet I would have likely repeated the error in the future if the same question were asked again.

I think Open, Honest, and Public discussion is always the best policy. CR

CR,

With your vast experience, you know that an "honest assessment" can not possibly be made looking at two or three dogs from a particular line...

So where is the "honesty" CR???? Seems pretty disingenuous to me. Oh wait, you sell GSPs right??? Nevermind, I get it.