$$ Field Trial Horse? $$

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daddyfid
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$$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by daddyfid » Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:27 pm

We just brought our first field trial pup home this weekend. Katy is an 8 week old Vizsla. I will soon be starting the process of finding a good field trial horse. We have had 4 horses over the last 3 years and every one of them had bucking problems. MY WIFE AND I ARE NOT GOOD RIDERS. We are extremly green when it comes to horses, so this time around we want to buy good, broke trial horses that will take care of us and not want to kill us. My wife snapped her arm in half last time she was bucked off.

How much she we expect to pay for a good, broke trial horse?

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kninebirddog
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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by kninebirddog » Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:01 pm

actually first thing i would do is invest in some handling and riding classes....

cause a bad rider and be creating issues even in the most broke of horses and until you change your habits you can land a new horse in the same problems

to add

using reins for balance
cling on with the legs which is cuing forward but having a heavy handed balancing your self with the reins pulling in the horses mouth which is cueing to stop or back at the same time and not knowing it

balancing with the saddle horn clinging on with the legs not riding with the horse

i am going by the way you posted ....i would make some changes there first before going through a bunch more horses
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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by TrueBlu Shorthairs » Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:18 pm

SIMPLE answer, you can buy a nice horse for anywhere from $2,500 to $7,500. With that said, a $7,500 can hurt you and a $2,500 horse can be nearly perfect. Don't listen to horse wranglers. Find someone who nearly everyone says is honest. If one person got hurt on one of any wranglers horse, stay away. I'd actually tell you to wait until you know this pup is more than just a trial prospect. If you just enjoy being at trials, enjoy the people, don't really care to win, but are content to just be there, then jump right up and buy a horse. Other than that, spend a ton of time to find the RIGHT horse. One that can be counted on, period. ANY horse can hurt you. But, some seem to have it as their life's goal to hurt as many as possible. I'd tell you to find a well known trialer who has an order horse that he/she has ridden for years, has put their many many clients on, and has always been sound. Be assured, if they put their clients on the horse, he's probably pretty darn good. They don't want their paychecks hurt. Just remember, a pup that has a great pedigree, is started properly, loves birds, points like a million, SHOULD be an excellent competitor can easily be nothing but a nice hunting dog. Don't count on the pup making a Field Champion. Most of us who have ridden more than twice have ended up in the hospital on several occasions. I ride relatively well and have seen the hospital now three times, total of 8 broken ribs, bruised spleen, bruised kidney, broken collar bone. Be careful and as has been said, you might want to take some riding lessons at a walking horse ranch before jumping up and buying. A bad horse is far harder to sell once you own him.

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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by WildRose » Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:33 pm

If you are both pretty much complete novice riders you need a horse that is very hard to find and therefore going to be very expensive. You need a completely dead broke field trial horse that's also a really good baby sitter who can adjust to the level of it's riders ability. Those are rare. I have one of those type horses that I've already turned down some very nice offers for, I don't know what it would take for me to part with him. I can chase down a AA dog across rough terrain on him without every being concerned for my safety, or let my buddies ten year old (who has next to zero horse experience) ride triple with two small kids on him while planting birds!

A horse like that will eventually teach you enough about riding that you will become either a pretty good rider, or at least competant on that particular horse to the extent you can relax and not get yourself hurt. Riding a horse well is not like sitting in a chair or riding a motorcycle down the highway. It is a very athletic endeavor and more than anything really requires you to move WITH the horse, understand what horses can and can't do, and yes to pretty much be able to read their minds and see things as they see them.

I see a lot of people riding at trials that in all honesty wouldn't be safe on anything that didn't have four wheels. Unfortunately I also see a lot of those types of riders that think they know what they are doing and the end result is trips to the ER.

Keeping up with and handling a dog is a lot of work for a walking handler that's new to the game, and when you have to add all that's required to handle a horse to it, it's just too much for a lot of people.

You've already been given some good advice, spend some time with a competant riding instructor and do not try to learn to ride at field trials.

For those first beginning to trial, particularly in AKC trials there are a lot of walking stakes. CR
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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by Neil Mace » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:59 am

I am utterly amazed at the number of people that will climb on a horse for the first time at a field trial. It is brave, and foolish. You need lessons, and lots of practice before taking a horse out of an arena. I am also questioning the teaching ability of some of those that are giving lessons. I rank in the bottom 10% of all horseman, world wide, but I don't fall off much these days, as I learned to ride bareback, and until I learned to move with the horse, balance with my legs, and anticipate the horse's movments, I fell off often.

I have an interest in sailing, but be assured my first time in a sailboat is not going to be in America's Cup or even the local regata.

I blame watching John Wayne movies for making others think anyone can ride. When I see someone with no experience trying to stay on a horse while putting themselves and everyone in the gallery in serious danger, I think, would they climb on a motorcycle and enter a rally without some practice?

We need new people in the sport, and I welcome them all, but please learn to ride before entering a horseback trial.

Even though the price of a poor horse is near the basement, some they can't give away; a good, calm, gentle, well trained, smooth gaited horse is going to cost upwards of $2,000 even here in the factory of Tennessee. The problem of buying a horse from a pro is that one of the reasons he is a good horse is because he is ridden often. Sometimes you can take that same gentle pro horse and lay him up in the pasture for a month and an Apache couldn't stay on him.

I have relearned three things with my last horse purchase; You can't even trust your friends in a horse trade, buying an old horse is no gurantee of getting a good horse (a bad young horse just grows up to be a bad old horse), and always try them at a field trial (a test ride in an arena or even on a trail ride is not enough). And stay away from mares for your first horse.

Good luck, and I am not trying to scare you off, but your wife's injury should tell you something. If they won't let you test ride the horse at a field trial, pass.

Neil

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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by bobman » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:00 am

If I had a $3000 dollar budget in your situation I would spend $2,500 on lessons and $500 on the horse, you can find a good horse cheap especailly if you aren't in a hurry. Network with people that are into horses and agood one will come up from someone that is more concerned about where and who the horse ends up than cash. I have had two great horses given to me.

As a aside I have been riding since I was 15 thats 40 years and a horse owner for the last 30 years and nothing scares me more than riding horses, you can do everything right and still get hurt, lessons are extremely important. Knine is dead on with her advice lessons are where you need to spend the cash, a horse knows in a few seconds if you know what you are doing


http://www.eddabney.com/horses_for_sale.htm this guys a great teacher his videos are useful and try to find a local pirelli group
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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by TrueBlu Shorthairs » Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:55 am

Several suggestions/caveats I thought of last night...take someone with you who knows Walkers and trials to evaluate the horse. Don't believe someone who is trying to sell the horse, there's a good reason why the horse is for sale. Absolutely take the horse to a local vet ASAP for soundness check and to make sure the horse hasn't been Aced prior to you seeing him. In many states, horse sellers are very protected in their dealings, buyers are not, generally speaking.

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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by tenbearsviz » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:57 am

Daddyfid,

I am sure you are spinning with all the information you received here.

First, congrats on your new vizsla pup. I see you are in MO and if you bought it locally, chances are you will have a winner. I would love to hear more about your pup.

Expect to pay anywhere from $2,000 to $5,000 for a good horse. Also, get ready to pay at least $250 a month in upkeep. This doesn't include a trailer or truck to get to a trail. Biggest lesson... get ready to spend!

Of all the advice I could give, please be sure to get a horse that is appropriate for your skill level. Do not buy the green broke flashy SSH because he is pretty and has lots of chrome. Don't pass by the dull fugly horse that will take care of you. You can train a good trail horse to be a field trial horse.

Seek out your local pointing breed clubs for potential horses.

A good horse will make the field trial game an incredible experiance. A bad one will make it a nightmare.

Good Luck!

Rodger

Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by Rodger » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:18 am

A good horse will make the field trial game an incredible experiance. A bad one will make it a nightmare.
I couldn't agree more.

Daddyfid, My suggestion is contact Robbi Gulledge at Blue Dawn Kennels. In addition to her and her husband Keith being top field trailers, Robbi also buys, trains, sells and knows TWH’s. If she doesn’t have a horse that would be a good match for you, I’m sure she could point you in the right direction. The Gulledge’s are Terrific folks, very knowledgeable and honest in every way. They’re located in Madison, KS about 2.5 hours from you.

Robbi also posts here often, but here is a link to their site.

http://www.bluedawnken.com/

Personally the need for a horse in order to run FT’s is a real detractor for me. Walking trails are fun, just doesn’t seem to be enough of them.

Good luck and stay aboard :D

Rodger

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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by jhoughton » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:07 am

Learn how to ride before buying a horse. Once you have 100's of hours in the saddle, you will know what type of horse you would like and can handle. A good broke trial horse will run atleast $2500 and most likely run in upwards of $5000. You will get what you pay for...

My wife and son learned how to ride over the past year and lessons were the best investment I made. They are capable of getting on almost any horse now and at a minimum keep from getting hurt and are safe. Lessons not only teach you how to handle a horse, but you will also learn to control a horse that is out of control. My 9 yo son on a couple of occassions has been on a very spritied horse that has broken into a full gallop. He was able to keep his balance and composure to get the horse reigned in and back under control. Only lessons and experience will keep you out of trouble...

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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by gar-dog » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:02 pm

Well, I must be lucky. I attended my first field trial as a spectator a month or two ago and jumped in the saddle for the first time in 20-odd years and rode for a couple of hours. I had a great time and obviously had a great horse. It has been giving me the horse bug - but after reading this thread I am rethinking that! I wonder what's safer - ATVs or Horses...

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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by oakcreek » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:29 pm

Tony king from over in MO sometimes has some horses, you might look him up.

Erin's kennels out of Ill. has some horses for sale

Randy anderson from Oklahoma sometimes has horses

There is a horse down the road from you that I know of, he is child broke, anyone can ride him and he does everything. He has been field trialed a lot and has plenty of experince.

You can email me if you want any more info on the horses, and I too would recommend you finding a riding class

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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by kninebirddog » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:39 pm

another thing which i might add learning foundation is also just as important as learning how to ride

A rancher and friend i used to work for and trained for when he has new people interested in a horse he would tell them "Green and Green can make for a lot of red"

When you understand that then think about the horse your about to deal with

Though these are not IE field trial horse specialist the concept is the same for the foundations they have dvds out which can help a person learn a lot about their horses and build the foundations which can make for a much better relation ...I have seen many at trials or even trial riding that could have benefited greatly from these videos

Richard Winters probably the most practical for any horse person
Pat Parelli ,Pat also has a show on RDF which is very good ...Richard Winters apprenticed under Pat
and John Lyons and his son Josh
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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by daddyfid » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:07 pm

Thanks for all the info. I guess picking the correct litter and the correct pup was the easy part. Again, I greatly appreciate all your time and information you have given to this post.

Brian

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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by tenbearsviz » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:43 pm

gar-dog wrote:Well, I must be lucky. I attended my first field trial as a spectator a month or two ago and jumped in the saddle for the first time in 20-odd years and rode for a couple of hours. I had a great time and obviously had a great horse. It has been giving me the horse bug - but after reading this thread I am rethinking that! I wonder what's safer - ATVs or Horses...
A good horse will take care of you.... most of the time..

Many field trial horses are so used to the noise, pace, speed and course that they are similar to getting on one of those nose to tail trail rides.

Handling and scouting is a completely differnet experiance.

Horse ownership is a lifestyle. Cant park it in the garage and only gas it up when you are ready to rip.

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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by zzweims » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:46 pm

Never saw a horse crash into a tree :D

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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by tenbearsviz » Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:00 pm

zzweims wrote:Never saw a horse crash into a tree :D

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Horse got into a muddy plowed field, went up and over on top of the rider.

It was an experianced rider with an experianced horse. Rider was too focused on his derby dog to do the right thing... Splash! Broken collar

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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by Neil Mace » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:57 pm

None of us are trying to scare you off, we welcome new folks, we just want you to be safe.

Here is another fact, you ride a horse long enough and you are going to go off. It is not if, but when you will have a wreck.

Oh, I don't wear a helmet, I think they are silly and offer little true protection, but my granddaughter is not allowed on her horse without one. But her brain is a lot more important than mine.

Good luck,

Neil

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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by TrueBlu Shorthairs » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:59 pm

Neil, you don't wear a helmet? Why would you with the Labotomy and the steel plate? It answers a ton of questions...like....why you own brits!!

SORRY!!!

Neil Mace

Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by Neil Mace » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:07 pm

Thanks Blake, for reminding us to lighten up, all this serious talk can get boring.

But did you notice, this is one of the few times all the experienced trialers have agreed?

Neil

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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by NE Vizsla » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:25 pm

pm sent

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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by Blue Dawn Kennel » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:19 pm

Brian~

You've gotten all kinds of advise that is for sure and I can add to it. As Rodger had said, my husband and I are professional GSP trainers and I've been riding horses since I could walk. Walkers was a whole new ballgame for me 18 yrs. ago when I met Keith as all I knew was QH. Anyway, I'd definitly take riding lessons (your and your wife), taken them on gaited horses would be a big plus that way you'll understand whats smooth and correct. I'd find someone that has had a horse that has been field trialed off of and has done it all (planting birds, judging, scouting, handling and just gallery ridden). I don't really believe that it's better to spend $2500 on lessons and $500 on a horse (maybe there are $500 horses out there but unless the people are majorly desperete I'd say that there would be something wrong with the horse health wise or mentally wise.) All of my horses are put through everything and I know a bunch of people that are dependable and trustworthy that have gaited horses for sale and will tell you the TRUTH about them. As Blake pointed out there are wranglers and traders that will tell you anything to get you to buy a horse from them. Some people will Ace or drug a mean/rank horse to put on a very calm, gentle apperance but in a day or two will turn into being a real jerk or mean sob. I myself won't sell someone a horse that I don't fell meets/matches up with that person(s) and all of your honest good people won't. I've sold horses to Conneticut, California, Canada, Texas, Missouri, Kansas, Wisconsin and Minn.
Definatly take your time, read up, take lessons and talk to people about the gaited horses, field trialing ect, finding a horse that has done it all along with keeping you and your wife safe so you can enjoy your dogs. I see you live in Oak Grove we used to live in between Warrensburg & Knob Noster and Keith's family lives around Warrensburg, Holden and Pleasant Hill.
If you have any questions or anything you want to talk about your can pm me and I'll help you out in anyway possiable. Congrats on the new pup and best of luck with all.
Robbi
PS- Just a kinda short true story. I was down judging and trialing at trial in southwestern MO and watched a couple trying out horses they'd picked up and brought to the field trial. Anyway this went on for a couple of weekends finally at the one this new horse they were trying out did everything from rearing, backing up into their string of dogs, running through their string of dogs and falling backwards (after rearing) into a fence with the wife on it's back. Neither of the people were great riders but had ridden calm enough horses that knew it all they were safe. They started talking and asking Keith and I about horses and we told them that they needed to stay away from what they had been trying out or they'd be in the hospital which would be more money that what a good, ready to go field trial horse would cost them. Later on a few months down the road they emailed and said that they were going to be @ this walking trial I was judging did I have a horse for sale. I told them I did, they asked how much and I told them he was $5000.00, they asked if they could ride him while we were @ this trial. They road him all one day and part of the next, they came over and asked me one why did I want to sell him, why was he so much money, was it because he was a paint (spotted) or what. I told them that I loved this horse had had him since he came out of his momma, broke/trained him myself and that he'd done all he could for me (after a while with most horses I get bored and will sell for someone to get more and better use out of and I buy new ones). I told them NO $5000.00 was not because he was spotted but because of what he had in his head and in his heart. I also told them that $5000 for this horse (that did it all and was safe as heck) was a lot cheaper than a hospital bill that they were cruising on finding if they kept riding and looking at the type of cheaper horses they were. In the end they bought this horse, still have him to this day and a few months later into a year after buying him they told Keith & I "we'd pay double what we did knowing now what they know about him and him taking great care of them all these years).
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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by bobman » Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:44 am

My point about the 3000 dollar budget going to riding lessons and people horse ownership training was that in the beginning of horse ownership your money should be spent on learning about horses. There is no quicker way to get a ride on a life flight helicopter ambulance than to ride horses if you dont understand horses. Its not just a matter of feeding and horse care infact that part is simple, the real issues are learning horse body language, join up, herd thinking ect. a so called bomb proof horse is not necessarily less dangerous if someone with no clue is riding it.

Horses survived the millenia by running first then figuring out if or not what scared them was a really predator, if you are not tuned into that the results to the rider can be deadly. Even the most experienced riders can be killed, a rookie is at great risk. Horse racing for example is the most dangerous type of racing, far more so that motorcycle racing for instance. Don't take horses lightly I'm not trying to scare anyone just really have been involved in the horse world all my adult life and have seen a lot of good horse people get badly hurt.

As someone stated above horse ownership is a lifestyle and its a lot of responsibility and hard work done correctly.

Our 500.00 horse went on to be a successful high level dressage horse that we were offered many times that amount for so yes there certainly are very good inexpensive horse available IF YOU LEARN about horses first so you know what you are looking at. WE had him until he died at 33 years old.

I dont sell horses, so I have no adjenda about their sell prices and the intial cost of a horse is a drop in the bucket just like dogs.
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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by DGFavor » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:55 pm

Excellent advice from all. Price is a difficult thing to assess but in general I believe one typically gets what they pay for...unfortunately sometimes in horses you can be paying a premium for the most recent "fad" - and gaited horses I think have a little bit of that going right now. I'm seeing them popping up more commonly in the QH crowd as many are now believers in the comfort and durability of laterally gaited horses.

This is the last horse I bought - a 10yo., true BTDT/ACR gelding, $6500 clams:

Dog training partner:
Image

He's the one with the panniers and deer on his back ("has he ever packed one of these before?" "I dunno, throw it on there" "well, huh, he's packin' it now - right on!"):
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Trackin' down a point signal on a sharptail hunt:
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Kissin' the girls:
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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by gmanksu » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:59 pm

Doug, that last picture is Priceless that is for sure!

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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by huntindog » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:11 pm

If you can walk at a pretty good pace, then you can walk in horseback trials. Julie and I have been doing this, for about 3 years now.
One advantage to starting out like this is that you will get to know a lot of people with horses. You will probably have opportunities to ride some of them. This will give you an idea of what you would like, before spending the money.

We have ridden a few different horses now, mostly for scouting or bird planting. some judging and a little gallery.
I can tell you from experience that there is a big difference in horses. I am not ready for a horse yet. When I am, I have a very short list of ones I would be interested in. As Charlie said, none of the best ones are for sale. Those are the ones I will make offers on. I will be prepared to pay a lot.

I do believe that it is possible to overpay for a bad horse, but not a good one. The trick is to know the difference.

The riding lessons are not a bad idea either.
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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by zzweims » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:27 pm

Doug:

Those pictures got me all weepy again. I paid $800 for a colt at auction. Raised him, trained him, broke my arm in the process. A few years later, I was offered $6000 for him and turned it down flat. Best dang horse that ever lived. Handling, scouting, judging, and babysitting little kids, newbies and puppies. He and my husband would share a beer together every night--sitting side by side on the picnic table. Lost him this Feb. when he got off his stakeout at a field trial, wandered onto the road and was hit by a truck. I've lost lovers, family members, and dogs, but nothing hurts worse than losing that once-in-a-lifetime horse :cry:

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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by fuzznut » Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:16 pm

Been a horse crazy girl since I was little. Finally had my chance to own and ride when I got into field trialing! Loved it, but remember taking care of a horse can be work, especially when it's 12 degrees outside and the water buckets are all froze up! And then you still have to shovel the stalls, frozen no less! And then in the spring when everything is a mudhole, still have to slosh your way to the barn.... or in the rain, or in 98 degrees. Like the dogs, they are a lot of care. Worth it while you are in love, hate it when they are work.

Other than that... I used to be a pretty confident rider, until.... someone offered me a free ride on one of their horses. Got my butt in the saddle, never truly got my hands on the reins, and the little bugger took off like a bronc!!!! I do remember trying to remember to tuck and roll as I was flying thru the air, but it didn't happen quite that way! Ended up with a fractured pelvis, and even though it was a year ago, whenever I am on a horse and it trips........ forgetaboutit!!!!!!!!!!! Scares me to death.

Just remember, horses are absolutely wonderful creatures, but you can get hurt, so be careful, and don't ever be foolish or unprepared when you are riding.

Have fun, good luck in your search. And, I agree.... look for the best, brockest, most honest horse you can find. Spend extra if you must. It's worth it.
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WildRose
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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by WildRose » Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:47 pm

When I am, I have a very short list of ones I would be interested in. As Charlie said, none of the best ones are for sale. Those are the ones I will make offers on. I will be prepared to pay a lot.
Martin I had to laugh and agree with this. There have been more times than count that I was driving home after someone had made me an offer on Louie I'd turned down wondering if I was stupid. But then as often as you've seen him, what he can do when I ask him and how nice he is with a herd of kids on his back, you know why I keep saying no. CR
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tenbearsviz
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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by tenbearsviz » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:00 am

zzweims wrote: The one and only 'Rrrudy.'
Aline, Your loss has been felt by many of us in the South East.

I'll miss the beaming smile of Nicolas and Rrrrudy splashing us as we cross the creeks at Leesburg.

Please offer him our condolences.

Don & Kim from Florida

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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by zzweims » Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:36 pm

tenbearsviz wrote:
zzweims wrote: The one and only 'Rrrudy.'
Aline, Your loss has been felt by many of us in the South East.

I'll miss the beaming smile of Nicolas and Rrrrudy splashing us as we cross the creeks at Leesburg.

Please offer him our condolences.

Don & Kim from Florida
Thanks. We still miss the big guy terribly.

Aline
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RayGubernat
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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by RayGubernat » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:13 pm

I would be very suspicious of anything under $1500 and would expect to pay somewhere around $2500 -5000 for a smooth strong, safe and sane registered TWH gelding with field trial expereince. An older horse might run towrds the lower number but a younger horse might very well get up around the higher number and even beyond.

Black or bay horses are usually cheaper than paints or fancy colors like strawberry roan or whatever the heck is the hot color right now.

If the horse has a tie down strap on it from the chin to the breast strap...walk away. It probably likes to rear. If the horse show a lot of white in its eyes with normal handling and such...walk away. It is probably fearful and unpredictable. I would want to see kind eyes and a mellow disposition first off, because without those the rest don't matter to me , 'cause I ain't climbing on.

I am NOT a good rider and I was able to find two very serviceable horses. Perhaps I was lucky, but i went to trials, saw a lot of different horses, rode some and kept looking. I paid $3500 for one horse, eight years ago and $500 for shipping and he has been worth every cent. I paid $2500 and $400 for transport for my other horse, five hears ago and while he is not as smooth as the first horse, he is strong and safe and again, worth every penny.

A whole bunch of people told me I paid waaay too much money for each of those horses, especially the first one, but I am still riding the same horses and good many of the folks who told me I overpaid have changed horses once or twice since then.

I agree with the poster who advised you to wait and see how your youngster turns out. I do sincerely wish you the best of luck, but the hard fact is that not every dog, even some of the very best bred ones, are field trial material.

One of the very best ways to get the kind of horse you want may be to work with a horse wrangler who works on consignment. I have heard reports of wranglers searching for a horse for someone, bringing it to their facility on approval, evaluating the animal and if satisfied, making a recommendation for the purchase. The wrangler would get a percentage for their search and evaluation.

Again, best of luck. Puppies are the bomb. Hopes, dreams and a world of promise...all wrapped in fur...in your case a very pretty red fur.

RayG

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sambuca
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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by sambuca » Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:00 pm

Horses are biggest barrier to entry in the field trial game.

I'm just learning about this game and it seems like a ton-o-fun. Like Gar-Dog, I got on a horse for the first time in 20 years at a field trial this spring. I grew up with horses and I know how to ride. However, my "wrangler horse" tripped and fell about 20 minutes into the first brace and I ended up on my "bleep". If you're going to rent a horse, do it early in the day before they are tired.

Someone here said there are plenty of walking trials. Well, I think there aren't enough. Many clubs don't run walking stakes anymore. More people would graduate to horseback if given the opportunity to compete on foot and get the "field trial bug".

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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by Buckeye_V » Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:24 am

The whites around the eyes is not a good indicator of "craziness." We ride one that our friend owns and he is a great horse. He's just a big goof and that is way his eyes are. He's a friendly puppy dog, easy to catch, easy to ride and the perfect height. He's a paint to boot.

We put tie-downs on all of our horse for safety reasons in field trials. When I am just riding a leisurely trail ride I may not put one on. Some people won't ride ANY horse without one and some people are really brave. So, the tie-down thing isn't a sure bet either.

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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by DGFavor » Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:55 am

Hey Justin - Personally, I've never considered a tie-down as a safety device, in fact I've always felt to the contrary. A horse uses his head/neck for balance and fixing it in position I feel really inhibits that. I have used a tie down with one of my horses at times but never in rough country. How do you feel it's safety device?

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Karen
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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by Karen » Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:58 am

sambuca wrote:Horses are biggest barrier to entry in the field trial game.

I'm just learning about this game and it seems like a ton-o-fun. Like Gar-Dog, I got on a horse for the first time in 20 years at a field trial this spring. I grew up with horses and I know how to ride. However, my "wrangler horse" tripped and fell about 20 minutes into the first brace and I ended up on my "bleep". If you're going to rent a horse, do it early in the day before they are tired.

Someone here said there are plenty of walking trials. Well, I think there aren't enough. Many clubs don't run walking stakes anymore. More people would graduate to horseback if given the opportunity to compete on foot and get the "field trial bug".
I agree. Horses are a huge barrier for someone wanting to get involved in field trials. I've paid everywhere from $200-600/month in board and learned that more $$ doesn't always equate to better care.

There are a few Brittany trials with walking stakes in the area though...check out Southern New England Brittany Club (they run a walking AGD in CT), Central New England Brittany Club (walking AGD in CT in the fall), Anthracite runs an all walking trial in the fall and their "regular" trial spring and fall have a walking AGD stake in it (in Weatherly, PA), and the PA Brittany Club (in Western PA) has a walking trial in the fall I believe. So not tons of walking trials, but the Viszla and Weim trials in the area also offer some walking stakes.

BUT if you ever want to run your dog in a horseback stake and don't feel comfortable on a wrangler horse, let me know. I've been known to lend my boy out so others can play the game too :D
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kninebirddog
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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by kninebirddog » Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:25 am

Thing is yo do not have to be on mount to run the trials


huntingdog and his wife have titled their dog ON FOOT at regular trials...they have placed with dogs like rumorII

there are a handful of other trialers that walk in trials which are NOT walking trials

http://www.akc.org/pdfs/rulebooks/RFTPNT.pdf


6-S Horseback Handling. The premium list for
any licensed or member field trial must specify
whether or not handling from horseback will be permitted
in any or all stakes. If handling from horseback
is permitted in any stake, the club should
attempt to provide horses. Mounted and foot handlers
are not to be segregated in the drawing.
The Judges shall see to it that any mounted
handler uses his horse only as a means of conveyance
on the course and never as an active aid
in handling. The handlers shall remain on the
specified course in front of the Judges and in the
Judges’ line of travel, except as necessary to handle
a dog that is seen on point. The Judges shall
control the pace, whether both handlers are on
foot or both are mounted. If one handler is
mounted and the other is on foot, the Judges shall
set a reasonable pace to accommodate the foot
handler.
Mounted handlers must keep their horses
at a flat walk at all times unless otherwise
authorized by a Judge.
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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by Buckeye_V » Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:49 am

A horse is less likely to rear with a tie down on. I have also seen a horse throw it's head and drill the rider (who was watching his dog). So, in a trial situation (we trial on mostly flat ground), the tie-downs go on.

I guess it's not necessarily a safety item - call it what you will I guess. Some may call it a control item, like to keep the horse from tossing it's head. It can be used like a more agressive bit. To control something that was not "trained" or ridden out of the horse. Much like an e-collar. I'm just kind of rambling now.

I'm no expert, that's for sure. But, to say a tie-down indicates a wild horse that is not necessarily always true. Could be a dumb rider.
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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by DGFavor » Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:39 pm

Control device - yah, I like it!! Controls me from getting P'd off at my horse continually pulling on me!! :D :D

Personally, I wouldn't ride a horse I had fear of tossing it's head and hitting me or rearing so have never considered a tie down for that. I suppose the odd circumstance could arise where a horse with no history of such behavior suddenly does it. Really a tie down shouldn't hurt anything having it there - the only concern I've ever heard is that it disrupts their balance and to take 'em off when the footing/terrain is questionable.

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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by kninebirddog » Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:02 pm

tie downs and heavier harsher bits Both result mostly due to the rider never get out of a horses mouth
other reasons can be there is something wrong in the mouth like a bad tooth or an improperly fitted bit but the biggest reason is though is the rider and lack of riding abilities or willingness to be a better rider just cinfine more and harher bits

tom Thumb snaffles ..are not the greatest bits people think of them as a softer bit...in truth they pinch the lower jaw of the horse by breaking like the snaffle but the shanks fold down and the chin strap which is mostly chain ones tighten up....so when you have a heavy handed person causes the head tossing from the horse trying to realese the pinch


one of my favorite bits is the full cheek snaffle...but then again I always perfered my horse to be responsive not reactive just like with i work with my dogs
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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by kninebirddog » Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:43 pm

here is an article which also talks about bits and issues

http://www.todayshorse.com/Articles/Tro ... mThumb.htm

there are many pro trainers out there who feel the very same about the tom thumb and long shank bits
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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by tenbearsviz » Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:03 pm

Buckeye_V wrote:A horse is less likely to rear with a tie down on. I have also seen a horse throw it's head and drill the rider (who was watching his dog). So, in a trial situation (we trial on mostly flat ground), the tie-downs go on.

I guess it's not necessarily a safety item - call it what you will I guess. Some may call it a control item, like to keep the horse from tossing it's head. It can be used like a more agressive bit. To control something that was not "trained" or ridden out of the horse. Much like an e-collar. I'm just kind of rambling now.

I'm no expert, that's for sure. But, to say a tie-down indicates a wild horse that is not necessarily always true. Could be a dumb rider.
A tie down WILL get you hurt if your horse stumbles and he cant move his head to correct.

Tie downs are for teaching collection and should only be used on footing where the risk of stumbling is less.

If the horse needs to be tied down, tie it to the trailer and leave him.

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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by Buckeye_V » Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:15 pm

Oh, that's great advise Ten Bears.
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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by WildRose » Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:32 pm

I really don't know how this turned into a discussion about tie downs but it's obvious that there's a lot being said about them by a few people that really don't know much about horses.

I use a loose tie down to give a horse a maximum limit on how high I want his head to be. I'm pretty short from the eyes to the waist and I like to be able to see over a horses ears. With tall, long built horses that's well below what it would be for a guy that's six inches taller than myself.

Tie downs are like any other piece of equipment, they have various purposes, and are used and misused depending on the level of experience of the operator. CR
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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by Equismith » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:46 pm

gar-dog wrote:Well, I must be lucky. I attended my first field trial as a spectator a month or two ago and jumped in the saddle for the first time in 20-odd years and rode for a couple of hours. I had a great time and obviously had a great horse. It has been giving me the horse bug - but after reading this thread I am rethinking that! I wonder what's safer - ATVs or Horses...
ATVs are safer. They have an off switch and brakes. My wife and I own three horses. One is an Italian Haflinger that is so strong he could snap us in half if'n he had a mind to do so. Thankfully he hasn't the mind to do so, so far. He's young and full of himself.

Just as with any vehicle purchase, kick the tires and give it a test drive, then leave and think about it. You can also have an experienced rider go with you and give an opinion, if you know one(rider, that is).

It's like the box of chocolates; you never know what you're gonna get.

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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:50 pm

So there all you people who don't know much about horses. If you are short tie the head down loosely so you can see. Just hard to believe a loose tie down keeps the head down that much. But I do know a horse with it's head tied is less stable. Just never had a problem with a horse getting so high it bothered me except it made the ride a little rough.

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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by zzweims » Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:11 pm

WildRose wrote:I use a loose tie down to give a horse a maximum limit on how high I want his head to be. I'm pretty short from the eyes to the waist and I like to be able to see over a horses ears. With tall, long built horses that's well below what it would be for a guy that's six inches taller than myself.
Wouldn't it be easier and safer just to collect the horse?

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WildRose
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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by WildRose » Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:24 pm

zzweims wrote:
WildRose wrote:I use a loose tie down to give a horse a maximum limit on how high I want his head to be. I'm pretty short from the eyes to the waist and I like to be able to see over a horses ears. With tall, long built horses that's well below what it would be for a guy that's six inches taller than myself.
Wouldn't it be easier and safer just to collect the horse?

Aline, the southern midget
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No since I very much prefer to ride with a loose rein I'd rather just teach them to keep their head down.

CR
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Re: $$ Field Trial Horse? $$

Post by WildRose » Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:25 pm

ezzy333 wrote:So there all you people who don't know much about horses. If you are short tie the head down loosely so you can see. Just hard to believe a loose tie down keeps the head down that much. But I do know a horse with it's head tied is less stable. Just never had a problem with a horse getting so high it bothered me except it made the ride a little rough.

Ezzy
Well good for you! CR
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