Thought I'd share

aylaschamp · Post by **aylaschamp** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:38 pm

Well if anyone is interested here's some pics of Sandy. She's getting big and is afraid of nobody! She'll start training this weekend if all goes as planed. We'll see if a off color GSP can make a name for herself.

Crestonegsp · Post by **Crestonegsp** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:13 pm

Where did you get your puppy?

aylaschamp · Post by **aylaschamp** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:21 pm

I have a friend here in Houston that gave her to me after my pup was hit by a truck. They wanted her to go to a home that would trial her.

Post by **Sharon** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:03 pm

She looks beautiful.
Look at those big feet she has to grow into.
Enjoy.

aylaschamp · Post by **aylaschamp** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:06 pm

Here is one of the other ones. He ran into something that didn't agree with his allergies!

gar-dog · Post by **gar-dog** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:38 am

Nice pics and cute pup. i couldn't help but notice the pressure washer on the patio.... I just got one last weekend. Best thing since sliced spread. I have run out of things to spray. It isn't even 'work" yet.
G

mudhunter · Post by **mudhunter** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:43 am

wow, I wouldn't have known that was a GSP right away. It does look great though!

upland-o · Post by **upland-o** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:21 am

Hey champ, where is that dog out of, any info on its pedigree. Im curiuos to see who threw a pup that color

aylaschamp · Post by **aylaschamp** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:30 pm

I thought I posted it on the yellow GSP thread but I'll post them again.

:

As for the sire I cant find his now. This is his name and Sire and dam:

BDR JAGER MISTER:

Sire: BARON FRITZ VON SCHATZI
Dam: JUROPA'S LADY SADIE

Let me know if you know the lines.

PowerPoint · Post by **PowerPoint** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:24 am

Finally a Miller bred "white dog" shorthair! i knew it was coming..lol

gsplvr · Post by **gsplvr** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:22 pm

Ok...am I the only one on this board who does not believe this dog is a purebred GSP? Beside the obvious color, the conformation is not exactly the best. What in the name of dogs is going on? I saw on one of the other threads that this dogs mother was from a lab kennel? I know there was a big stink back then, so was this dog DNA'd? As a longtime breeder of GSPs this just is mind boggling. Lets now play the Emporers New Clothes here...this dog is just not a legitamate representative of what a shorthair is supposed to be. Im not being a snob here, just stating the facts. shorthairs are not yellow!!!!!! ever!!!!!! so either it has pointer or yellow lab in there somewhere, but its not a true shorthair. I hope people dont get their panties in a bunch over this, but for pete sake, dont just sit there and go "oh okay..a new color, how nice...lets see if we can breed to it and get rare yellow shorthairs too..".....I would think the people who bred the dogs in the posted pedigree are taking gas as seeing their "bleep" pedigree blasted out there to the world...so who had the you know what in the woodpile that cropped up a yeller dog? Whats the story with this dog anyway? Obviously its akc reg. or it would not be trialed....? And actually if the parents were never DNA'd and they did this dog, it would not red flag anything as there is nothing to compare it to unless they had both parents DNA on file. So yeah it can have a DNA profile as well. But common sense can prevail here and our brains can tell us something is terribly wrong with this picture. Im not trying to hurt anyones feelings here, but if you have the guts to post this dogs photo, you probl. have the guts to take whats gonna get stirred up.

remmy · Post by **remmy** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:14 pm

gsplvr wrote:Ok...am I the only one on this board who does not believe this dog is a purebred GSP? .

You're not alone. That pup is definitely not a GSP..the dams side yes, the sire's side must have been bred out yellow lab or something. I even see a little weim in it even though it's not gray.

This is the second yellow GSP I've seen...I forgot what forum I saw the first one in. I'm afraid this might start becoming a fad like the black GSP...oops gonna get sh*t for that one. Nothing against black gsps just think they're a fad because breeders charge ridiculous money for their pups.

Either there was an oops in past generations and they tried covering it up or was bred purposely with the intent to deceive. Either way it is just wrong.

Dirtysteve · Post by **Dirtysteve** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:18 pm

Ok...am I the only one on this board who does not believe this dog is a purebred GSP?

+1 more

Either there was an oops in past generations and they tried covering it up or was bred purposely with the intent to deceive. Either way it is just wrong

Couldn't have said it better

Don · Post by **Don** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:25 pm

Thats a really good looking pup but, no way am I buying that it's a pure GSP.

PrairieGoat · Post by **PrairieGoat** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:10 pm

gsplvr wrote:Ok...am I the only one on this board who does not believe this dog is a purebred GSP?

Ok....am I the only one on this board that is tired of this whole....it's a GSP....it's not a GSP......yes it is....no it isn't argument? The bottom line is if it is registered as a GSP and registering authority agrees it is GSP, end of argument. There's not a one of us that can certify that our dog's pedigrees are 100% accurate and there wasn't a lab (or something else) in the woodpile some where along the line. Also, remember the GSP of today isn't "pure"....it is a combination of the breeding of multiple breeds (to include the English Pointer later in the lineage) to become what we know as the GSP today.

Bottom line is that the original poster believes their dog is a GSP, I assume (since I haven't seen the papers) that the registration authority believes it is a GSP, so who cares what the rest of us think. It is also my opinion that just as you believe it is naive of us to just sit around and say "what a nice looking pup" without questioning its ancestry, I believe that it is rude to slam someone's dog who is sharing their enjoyment of their personal gundog regardless of whether they want to call if an off colored GSP, a shorthaired poodle, or a long-legged chihuahua.

The phrase "If you can't say something good, don't say anything at all" comes to mind....and yes, I've broken this rule myself!

Oh yeah, almost forgot.........very cute pup!!! I love puppy pictures!

remmy · Post by **remmy** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:46 pm

I knew my black GSP comment would get some feedback! Oh, that's right...you have a black GSP. That's why you're sick of the comments.

Yes, the GSP is derived from a mixture of breeds to get the dog we have today. That was how many years in the past? People that are still doing it today does not make it right.

And by the way, just because the registry accepts it doesn't mean squat! They will register anything to make money...I know that for a fact!

The dog is nice looking...no one is taking that away from the owner. I would be proud of my dog no matter what. But the bottom line is it is not a GSP! Where have the yellow GSPs been all of these years to suddenly turn up now? They just turn up and all of a sudden they're a GSP?

PrairieGoat · Post by **PrairieGoat** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:02 pm

Nope, wasn't aimed at the "black GSP" comment....which is why I quoted "gsplvr", not you. You are getting paranoid!!!

Since you seem to want someone to address your comment......I suspect that market pressure (the old supply and demand) will determine what a GSP actually ends up being, whether that be liver, black, white, or pink. If a GSP breeder can get more for a black/white GSP,then the market is speaking whether or not you or I either one like it.

My vote and my money goes for performance, not color....which is why my first pup was black and white, and my newest is liver & white (if you haven't seen my puppy pictures thread!!!). I personally don't care if the GSP ends up with 6 legs and two noses, if he's a better hunting dog, I'll buy him (of course he still has to retain his "family" dog characteristics as well). The Germans that began the GSP were not looking for a liver/white dog or any other color, they were looking for a better hunting dog.....my opinion is that there is no reason to stop this quest just because we've got something that is good enough.

remmy · Post by **remmy** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:25 pm

I'm not paranoid nor did I feel a need for someone to answer my comment. I'm just stating my feelings...that's all.

I do agree with you about the market demand 100%. That is what I am most afraid of. Most people, not familiar GSPs, will be saying hey that pink gsp is cute I want one...not knowing any better. In order to get all these new fancy colors it means you would have to breed a GSP with another breed. That does not make it a purebreed anymore. Again, I know the GSP was derived from multiple breeds and is not truely a purebreed but everyone had to start somewhere...no need to continue mixbreeding though. We improve the breed with what we have already. The quest to improve doesn't stop but it is done breeding to our own breed only.

I don't like fads...not just in dogs but in everything! A rapper/thug/gang member wears his hat sideways now all kids wear their hats sideways. I'm just sick of fads and people who have to be followers!

aylaschamp · Post by **aylaschamp** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:03 pm

Ok, I don't mind the criticism at all. This isn't a "breeder" that put out this dog. So far I have the only one that's out of their possession. I have not registered this dog yet but most likely will so I can trial her. I'm going to wait though, till I see what she can do. Believe it or not she has heck of a pedigree. If you know the cause of this coloring your better than a lot of others. Besides culling the dog that physically looks different and not the entire litter is absurd. I can post pictures of both the male and female so you can see what incredible parents they are if it'd help. Honestly, if you think you know where this comes from please let me know. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and were all different. Dogs are a continual manipulation if genetics that we mess with all the time. There's gonna be flukes every once in a while. I just want to make a bird dog out of this one. Oh, I bet she can stand the heat a little better than a black GSP.

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:43 pm

Does anyone really think that lady even cares if the pup she loves has a pointer, a lab, or a schauzer three generations back on BOTH SIDES!

I know the breeder of these pups. He most certainly didn't do anything wrong. He's just "that kind of guy". We've discussed this anomaly quite a bit and I doubt this breeding will ever be repeated.

I also sincerely doubt that this pup or the other one like it in the litter will ever be bred.

Therefore, any discussions we have as to just what "might" be behind this odd color are just intellectual gymnastics. CR

aylaschamp · Post by **aylaschamp** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:57 pm

Something just came to me! I was watching the Vs. channel the other day and they were hunting predators. Well, while they were trying to call in coyotes a orange bobcat came into view. Everyone went nuts! So, I got to thinking this was probably not a genetic mutation so much as some moron probably crossed it with a pointer a while back!

aylaschamp · Post by **aylaschamp** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:10 pm

I would be happy to entertain any questions and hear any constructive information anyone may have about this color. Nothing about this dog says pointer anymore than any other GSP out there. Sure it's a different color but the markings are totally GSP. I cant seem to capture it on my camera but the dog is totally ticked accept for the solid ears and eyes. Even the belly skin is different colors like my other dogs. Just to let everyone know, I'm not a breeder either. I have an incredible bitch I breed one time to an incredible male to produce two dogs I could trial. It just so happened she had 11 pups off an AI. All I wanted was 2. I only breed my dogs when I find something special and need dogs. I was given this dog because the prize pick of my litter was run over intentionally the day before a trial. They wanted a good home fore her and new I only have dogs that hunt. If she doesn't, well, we'll find a good home for her. Again, I'll entertain any questions anyone has about this dog or it's breeding. I'd like to know the true reasoning for this color. Many have suggested a mutual ancestor in their linage. I haven't found one. This color only happens when these two dogs are crossed. All other litters produced by the male have been normal and same is for the female.

AHGSP · Post by **AHGSP** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:50 pm

Aylaschamp,
If I recall right from the other thread, your your pup appears Cinnamon?

Okay, this is an interesting one. I went back and looked at the info
in Georgina's book and she was quoting Burns (1952) who was using info
from the Danish Stud book about a litter of 11 GSP pups from two
normal colored "brown" parents that produced nine brown pups and 2
that were "cinnamon colored". Burns attributed this to a modifying
gene Z named by Steiger (1936). Willis(1977) mentions but doesn't
name five alleles for color paling in the German Shepherd(okay here we
go again with another breed) thus leading Georgina to the possibility
there may be another gene other than the "C" locus gene that is
responsible for the depth of color in the liver dogs. She then
continues to say that it is worthwhile to point out that a problem
exist(most prefer the darker dogs) and the C" locus gene alleles
provide a possible explanation. Keep in mind she states "possible
explanation".

All of this said I happen to have Dr. Ojvind Winge, a Danish
geneticist book that shows how inheritable factors are passed through
the generations and how they may apparently disappear, only to show up
later....

Anyway from his book, Chapter XXI - Short-haired Bird Dog(the GSP as
we know it) which has great plates that show the various color
combinations and the gene locus. As it pertains to Cinnamon he
attributes it to the Z gene. Following is direct quote from his
book. "Z. Cinnamon colored, "Zimtfarben," intensity factor. Brown
and red dogs that lack Z and therefore have zz receive a light color
than Z-dogs. The eyes are also lighter.'

Also direct quote from his book is the litter referenced by Georgina
which I mentioned above. "Finally, in brown dogs, both a darker brown
and a lighter brown, presumably a recessive shade, are found. The
gene Z, so named by Steiger(1936), is found in nearly all Shorthairs.
If it is lacking and zz occurs, the brown coat is modified to a
cinnamon color. Thus, in the offspring of 90368 Freja of
Helhoejgaard(brown) and 64829 Flok (brown-speckled with brown
markings) nine brown and two cinnamon-colored puppies occurred."

Quite possibly and perhaps apparently, in your pup as well.

aylaschamp · Post by **aylaschamp** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:06 pm

Thank you... Also just to let everyone they have repeated this breeding twice with the same outcome. Here is a pic of the first pups:

Out of this litter of 10 dogs two were this color.

Sandys litter had nine dogs with two her color. I tried to describe the color the best I could. In some light it looks yellow and in others it is a browner color. These dogs are as pure breed as any others out there. Your explanation is amazing and make sense. It also somewhat explains why my other dogs have light eyes. Has anyone come across any Rex dogs that have unusually light eyes?

gsplvr · Post by **gsplvr** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:02 am

Sorry ..if it looks like a lab, walks like a lab, its probl. a lab back there. I dont think its pointer and i dont thinks its a color mutation, if it is a color mutation, then its because there was a lab back there somewhere. I dont care if you can register a purple dog, its not what our breed standard calls for. Im not being snobby, but if you breed for certain characteristics and yellow is not allowed, you get upset. Forgive me for caring about my breed. If that happened in the first litter...helllloooo...why in the heck was it repeated? It tells you there was something going on in that match, dont do it again, dont blast it on the internet, without expecting some fallout. Im glad this lady loves her dog, but to expect people to sit back and try to make up a excuse as to why it looks like a freaking lab and pretend there is nothing wrong is ridiculous. Its not a shorthair, I dont care who mom and dad are. They make look like normal gsp's but somewhere in their background there was a ooooops and maybe the yellow in those prev. litters was made to disapear, but the gene continues in the litter mates who appear to have normal coloring, but are carrying the lab yellow gene. Thats the best explanation I can come up with. The conformation of the dogs even resemble more lab like features if you look at the dog honestly. I care about my breed. Its similar probl. to why Boxers still have white dogs pop up years later from when they were crossed way back when with bulldogs or whatever it was that gave them the white gene. We have seen the blue or silver GSP crop up as well, but that could be a dilution of the liver gene which is documented by scientists. It happens in cockers/beagles/chows/labs that carry the liver gene. Yellow is not a dilution of liver...labs have chocoate/liver/black. Lets not stick our heads in the sand, its a free country and people can breed what they want, but it does not make it right and I dont have to like it either. Happy 4th of July to all and thank you to all the veterans who have served and all who are serving our country now, without them we would not be able to do our bantering on the internet right now.

snips · Post by **snips** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:27 am

I think it's a simple case of pointer genes popping up. Pointers can and do have that coloration and it is, IMO, just showing what (maybe not direct breeder) has been up to, but some recent breeders... Pretty pup tho

AHGSP · Post by **AHGSP** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:27 am

Do you have the males Ped that you could post?

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:49 pm

You know a credible argument could be made that these dogs are in fact while light in their markings pure roans. This color/marking pattern as Bruce pointed out here and Lunseth pointed out previously on an old thread while very rare, has happened before in the breed.

No I don't want one, no way if I were to ever produce pups like these would they be eligible for full registration and breeding. But we're not talking about someone intentionally cross breeding and trying to pass them off as "real shorthair's" as others have certainly done in the past.

Now just for my own benefit, if I'd produced these pups I'd be sending both their, and their parents DNA in for color testing to see just what's going on and where it likely came from. CR

aylaschamp · Post by **aylaschamp** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:50 pm

Sending them for DNA would be nice but money is tight on their end as well as mine. I tried to get some better pics of her so you all can see what I'm talking about. The previous thread about the yellow shorthair, I believe the origional dog is a lab cross. The noise and stature say it. Sandy, is as much a true shorthair as my other dogs and all of yours. If anyone wants to pony up the money for a DNA I'd love one. My mom and dad have had her for poty training and the puppy stage till she's big enough for the kennel. She finally came home for good today and I took a lot of pictures. Here are a few:

lvrgsp · Post by **lvrgsp** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:41 am

My thoughts, are a pointer in the woodpile, I hope you enjoy the pup. You don't need the sires ped to correlate the mix up.
JMO,
Chip

Chief_dog · Post by **Chief_dog** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:52 am

If it's from a pointer in the woodpile, it would have to come from both parents, not just one side. If both parents were liver and produced ~25% lemon pups, both parents would have to have the genotype bbEe. If one parent was bbEE (normal GSP genotype) and the other bbEe, 100% of the pups would be still be liver.

If anyone wants a copy of a pretty straightforward chart on color inheritance, PM me your email address and I'll send it to you. It's a pdf file, so I can't post it.

It gets a whole lot more complicated than this chart shows when you start getting into roaning and ticking and patching patterns. When I teach basic genetics in my biology classes, I use some of the coat coloring inheritance for a change up after the kids learn about Mendel's pea plant crosses. The kids seem to really relate well to it.

aylaschamp · Post by **aylaschamp** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:03 pm

Sire
Baron Fritz Von Schatzi
SN51663208

Sire
Diamond Valley Toby MH
SN15248906
Dam
Samantha's Kleine Schatzi
SN18586501
Dam
Juropa's Lady Sadie
SN76968503

Sire
Cash's Maxwell Castaway
SF966953
Dam
LK's Dixieland Mary-Christmas
SN47230401

When I copied it it didnt come through good. Here's a link to a litter mate of the sire, Rusty Tobytatoo. http://www.gundogbreeders.com/pedigree4.html

As for how her training went today.......I couldn't have expected any better. She has'nt been in the field and yesterday was her first contact with a live bird. She was great today. encase y'all like pics:

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:54 pm

My opinion stands as before its not worth much except to me, but I still say it is much more likely to be pointer blood in the wood pile than any rare dilute gene, but the rare gene IS possible. Take the dog hunting, trial or do whatever enjoy the dog thats is what matters.

solon · Post by **solon** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:44 am

Sheila Schmutz at the U. of Saskatchewan does research on coat color genetics and she might be interested in your pup and its littermates. If you sent her the info and pictures and her group is interested, then all you would need would be to have some blood samples sent to their lab to provide them with DNA. The only cost would be for the blood draw at a scheduled vet visit and the postage. If they have a grant, they might pay that expense as well.

Contact info can be obtained from this site at the bottom of the home page:

http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/dogcolors.html

Maybe she already knows what genes are involved here.

Solon

aylaschamp · Post by **aylaschamp** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:38 am

OK, I sent the email to her. We'll see if she's interested. Something that's been troubling me is this. If it's not a genetic abnormality and is pointer in her lines it would have to be on both sides, right? The only possible candidate is many generations back. Here's the delema : my other dogs have the same lines way back also as do thousands of others. So, the validity of registration presented to me is inherent on thousands of others. Just because she's a different color is that a reason in itself or should all GSPs with these lines be limited in their registration should genetic tests prove pointer blood?

Chief_dog · Post by **Chief_dog** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:57 am

Pretty simple. Just do a genetic test for the "e" locus. http://www.vetgen.com/canine-coat-color.html

It'll cost you $65

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:24 am

AC if you do send in the DNA and get the suspected answer it won't invalidate your or anyone else's registrations. The only way that would occur is if you sent in the DNA to AKC to run and the pups proved not to match both parents.

If you have the money and the interest I'd do it. I'm just that way, I hate unanswered questions so if it were me I'd probably send in a sample for one of the blonde pups, one of the "normal pups" and both parents. CR

lvrgsp · Post by **lvrgsp** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:26 am

I am in no means a genetics scholar, but it is my understanding that both dogs will have to carry the gene, but that gene can carry over many generations.

Here's the delema : my other dogs have the same lines way back also as do thousands of others. So, the validity of registration presented to me is inherent on thousands of others. Just because she's a different color is that a reason in itself or should all GSPs with these lines be limited in their registration should genetic tests prove pointer blood?

That is what happens when you get unresposible breeders, and your breeder and you are at the mercy of their past experiences. The best thing to do is get DNA testing done along with the coat color testing done, and start asking questions on the past breeders of the dogs. Is it fair your pup and the others that are in this litter that are the same color may not be registerable but the acceptable color littermates are. Probably not, I would have the whole lot of them DNA tested starting with the parents. Another question I have is if this was known in the first litter why then was it repeated?
JMO,
Chip

Chief_dog · Post by **Chief_dog** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:41 am

Another question I have is if this was known in the first litter why then was it repeated?

Lvrgsp, That is an excellent question that I've been wondering about as well. Why repeat a breeding that throws known serious faults like that.

Aylaschamp, I really hope this pup turns into a nice dog for you. It's totally not your fault that this happened.

lvrgsp · Post by **lvrgsp** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:58 am

Aylaschamp, I too hope this dog turns out to be everything you want, I hope your able to get the testing done, I hope that the breeders can get some testing done, I am glad you brought this to all of our attention.
Chip.

aylaschamp · Post by **aylaschamp** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:41 am

Heavy words and harsh realities are part of life. Before people say things and hit that enter button we need to stop a minute and think about what were saying. I've said some heated things that I've regretted and made what I think is an attempt at amends with the member. As for the repeated breeding, the owners were amazed at these pups on the first litter and second guessed themselves. A repeat breeding confirmed, to them, that it was something between these dogs. Thanks to all of you and please keep an open mind about this dog. Aside from her color she looks and acts like any other naughty little GSP.

gar-dog · Post by **gar-dog** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:20 pm

aylaschamp wrote: I was given this dog because the prize pick of my litter was run over intentionally the day before a trial.

What is this about? Why did someone run over the dog????

aylaschamp · Post by **aylaschamp** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:10 pm

I live in the country and around here dogs are considered a nusense. She got out chasing a cat while I was loading the truck the night before the trial and I heard the thud. I went out to the road and a truck had gone off road and into the ditch to hit her. The skid marks were on the outbound side of her body so they hurried away. I'm to blame for letting her get out but she was the whole reason I breed my bitch. Luckily my girlfriend talked me into keeping Leo and he's turning into a future champ. We'll see if Sandy can fill Ezra, the one killed, Shoes. She acts just like her!

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:40 pm

I just read all 3 pages of this thread and would just like to know if the geneticist is interested in your pup and you send blood samples if you would please post the results. I do not believe you are a dishonest person and if it proves that this is a purebred gsp with a recessive color gene of some type I just want to see some of these people get their mouths shut for them. haha. Thanks.

aylaschamp · Post by **aylaschamp** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:13 pm

To satisfy me and many others DNA is on the way. I really could care less how it turns up. It will be nice to know the truth though.

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:47 pm

Well I hope it turns out for the best on any account.

kbshorthairs · Post by **kbshorthairs** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:38 pm

any news on the DNA?

Chaingang · Post by **Chaingang** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:11 pm

Just an observation here, but does anyone have a copy of the Georgina Byrne book "Der Deutsch Kurzhaar" ? After seeing this thread and the color of that pup, I couldn't help remember a chapter (chapter 12) on colouring/patterning in the GSP. In the chapter she shows all possible genotypes for colour. If you look at reference 12.2f extremely pale solid liver, this looks remarkably like the color we see in this pup. Granted it is not a real picture but rather an illustration, the stark similarities are quite evident. It would seem (although rare) that this colour pattern would be possible under the right circumstances, would it not?

For those who don't have the book here is a link to the chapter. I might add that the colour phase in this link does not do justice to the book and the color in the book appears to be a very light tan color.
http://www.dogstuff.info/coat_colour_gsp_byrne.html

AHGSP · Post by **AHGSP** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:55 am

Tom,

I made some reference to this on page 2 of this thread and added some additional info from some other references. Seems to be entirely plausible....

Chaingang · Post by **Chaingang** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:44 pm

Guess I better read the entire thread next time.