English Pointer Pups tail~~~~~~~UPDATED PICTURES!!!

Gundogs/Nebraska · Post by **Gundogs/Nebraska** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:19 pm

My son just purchased a EP pup that is 15 weeks old. He is a really nice pup, but I have a very odd question. His tail is shorter then any EP pup that I have seen. It's way longer then a GSP tail but NOT as long as his littermates.

If I was to explain it. It's like the tip of the tail is gone. Hair is completely grown over it like normanl though. I asked the breeder if anything happened to the pup when he was a newborn and he said NO. The tail is thicker then any of his littermates as well. It does produce a 12 O'clock tail when on point, but once again the length looks really ODD....

I will post some pictures when I get some taken of him soon.

My question is, has anyone seen this before or is this NOT normal??

Thanks for any comments....

lvrgsp · Post by **lvrgsp** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:21 pm

Hey Tonie I have seen it in a few Foxhound crosses that were to sickle they had to dock the tails some.

Chip

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:01 am

I visited a kennel recently and many of the dogs in the kennel had shorter than normal tails. I asked the breeder how he got such short tails. He replied instantly, "Genetics!" I looked at him and retorted, "Scissors!"

They don't come out like that.

There are Pointer breeders that "nip" tails.

snips · Post by **snips** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:05 am

There are some Pointer breeders that just dock the tip of the tail on pups to avoid the tip from "tipping".

birdogg42 · Post by **birdogg42** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:45 pm

I had to dock about 1/4 inch off my elhew gyps tail, it would not stop bleeding. I about cried when i did. Looks like a cigar now!

Gundogs/Nebraska · Post by **Gundogs/Nebraska** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:25 pm

Hmmmm. I'm at a lost for words, because like I had mentioned before, all the littermates tails are normal and have the limp end unless they are on point. Now my son's dog's tail is shorter and a heck of a lot thicker.

I have pictures of him and a littermate but don't know how to post them.

If someone could help me post the pictures, I will post them of the pups.

UPDATE!! I tried to put the pictures on here, but it says that they are too big. Can anyone tell me how to downsize them??

Thanks for any help...

jascolt · Post by **jascolt** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:50 pm

http://www.gundogforum.com/forum/viewto ... f=1&t=4953

This link should help you with the pics but not the tail.

lvrgsp · Post by **lvrgsp** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:51 pm

Just send them to my email addy and I'll post them for you.

Chip

lvrgsp · Post by **lvrgsp** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:25 pm

Here ya go Chief, keep those engines on the track....

This I believe is Gundogs pup.

And a littermate

There ya go Buddy.

Chip

Brushbustin Sporting Dogs · Post by **Brushbustin Sporting Dogs** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:32 pm

Tony there is a noticable difference but he has a great tail. I owned two pointers for awhile they were similar breeding one was the other ones grandma if you follow. She had that shorter thicker tail like that and he had the tail like the other pup in the picture. If his tail is goin stand that nice I sure wouldn't worry about it. It doesn't look bad at all in that picture IMO

Robbie

Gundogs/Nebraska · Post by **Gundogs/Nebraska** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:10 am

Brushbustin Sporting Dogs wrote:Tony there is a noticable difference but he has a great tail. I owned two pointers for awhile they were similar breeding one was the other ones grandma if you follow. She had that shorter thicker tail like that and he had the tail like the other pup in the picture. If his tail is goin stand that nice I sure wouldn't worry about it. It doesn't look bad at all in that picture IMO

Robbie

Thanks for your opinion Robbie. I myself don't have a problem with the tail, I just find it VERY strange that it is that much shorter than his littermates. I didn't know if that was normal or if it had been cut a little bit..

It stands 12 O'clock every time which looks real NICE...

Are you getting all this rain up there as well?

lvrgsp · Post by **lvrgsp** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:41 am

heck I think its a "bleep" good looking pointer, and I know were getting a ton of rain again here in Central IL.

Gundogs/Nebraska · Post by **Gundogs/Nebraska** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:43 am

lvrgsp wrote:heck I think its a "bleep" good looking pointer, and I know were getting a ton of rain again here in Central IL.

Thanks Chip. I know my son is dang proud of him.

Both of the pups are actually pretty dang nice. I'm new to the EP world, but proud to own both of these pups from what I have seen at a young age.

They like to RUN, you gotta love it..

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:50 am

Beautiful pups! I know that you have been looking for a while now. Looks like the wait paid off. What is the breeding??

Gundogs/Nebraska · Post by **Gundogs/Nebraska** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:05 am

Yawallac wrote:Beautiful pups! I know that you have been looking for a while now. Looks like the wait paid off. What is the breeding??

Ross,

I'm off to work for a train ride. I will post the pedigree when I get back. Maybe you could tell me how good and/or bad the pedigree is.

In my opinion it's just an average pedigree, but a pedigree doesn't complete a dog, it just helps some.

Talk to you soon...

Tom L · Post by **Tom L** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:56 pm

Some of my buddies black mouth cur cow dogs were born with shorter tails and bob tails, I dont know what causes them to have the different length tails

Dennmor · Post by **Dennmor** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:13 pm

What is it that you're worried about? Is it the opinion of others that has you concerned? Is the length of this dogs tail going to make a difference in how he hunts.
Get over it! The comments of most everybody else seem to indicate, he's a good looking pup with some potential.
I'd be more concerned with being able keep up with him, and being able to give him the training and environment that he deserves.
There are no bad dogs... just bad owners.
GEEZ! :roll:
Denn

lvrgsp · Post by **lvrgsp** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:24 pm

Denn, Tony is very happy with the pups, he was just concerned about the the difference in tail lenghts versus his littermates is all.
Chip

Gundogs/Nebraska · Post by **Gundogs/Nebraska** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:38 pm

Dennmor wrote:What is it that you're worried about? Is it the opinion of others that has you concerned? Is the length of this dogs tail going to make a difference in how he hunts.
Get over it! The comments of most everybody else seem to indicate, he's a good looking pup with some potential.
I'd be more concerned with being able keep up with him, and being able to give him the training and environment that he deserves.
There are no bad dogs... just bad owners.
GEEZ! :roll:
Denn

Denn,

I was just simply wondering why one tail would be so much shorter then his litter mates when supposedly it wasn't docked.. So why don't you get over it. Must be too much altitude huh!!!

Dennmor · Post by **Dennmor** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:52 am

Gundogs/Nebraska wrote:
Dennmor wrote:What is it that you're worried about? Is it the opinion of others that has you concerned? Is the length of this dogs tail going to make a difference in how he hunts.
Get over it! The comments of most everybody else seem to indicate, he's a good looking pup with some potential.
I'd be more concerned with being able keep up with him, and being able to give him the training and environment that he deserves.
There are no bad dogs... just bad owners.
GEEZ! :roll:
Denn
Denn,

I was just simply wondering why one tail would be so much shorter then his litter mates when supposedly it wasn't docked.. So why don't you get over it. Must be too much altitude huh!!!

Sorry, just me being a knuklehead.

This altitude can be quite intoxicating.

Denn

Gundogs/Nebraska · Post by **Gundogs/Nebraska** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:55 am

Yawallac wrote:Beautiful pups! I know that you have been looking for a while now. Looks like the wait paid off. What is the breeding??

Ross,

Here is the pedigree of the pups. You would know pedigree's a lot better then me for sure. It is average in my opinion.

This is all I have as of now as far as pedigree. I'm waiting for FDSB to send out the full pedigree...

Webb's Running Rebel
Q's Elhew Nighthawk
Laron's Polly
Mr Elhew Eagleclaw CH Elhew Fiber McGee
Elhew Royalty
Elhew Moon Blossom

Sire: Ninnescah Cy Satchel Creek Chief

Satchel Creek Angie
Bill's Dixie Girl

25xCH Miller's Silver Bullet
Hale's Super Hero
AFTCA 9xCH Prairie Buzz Bullett Super Express Samantha
AFTCA CH Bold As Brass
Dam: Miss Nennescah Northfork
CH Miller's Excel 25xCH Miller's Silver Bullet
Zimmer's Cover Girl Numark Megan
JD's Elhew Cassie Elhew Seahorse
Dancing Elhew Jasmine

Gundogs/Nebraska · Post by **Gundogs/Nebraska** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:59 am

Yawallac wrote:Beautiful pups! I know that you have been looking for a while now. Looks like the wait paid off. What is the breeding??

LOL... Ross I hope you can find your way through that pedigree. It didn't come out how I typed it on here.

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:30 am

I can't really tell what goes where...

But lots of quality names in there ...and the pups look great!!

Congrats again. Very nice. They are going to be a blast!

KY Grouse Hunter · Post by **KY Grouse Hunter** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:04 pm

Some breeders clip tails and don't tell. They have their reasons but I have nothing for it. I jumped a guys case two years ago on a pointer I was to buy and when the dog showed up it was obvious it had been clipped. Leave em' long and poker straight for me.

PowerPoint · Post by **PowerPoint** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:37 am

It looks like that peticular pup may have had a problem,and the breeder docked it.That would be the obvious assumption.Nice pups though....

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:56 am

I can guarantee you unequivocally that that pointer pups tail has never been docked, had a genetic problem, birth defect or anything of the sort. I AM THE BREEDER of the pup in question and he was just born with a 'broomstick tail' simply put. If a person is SOOOO worried about it they could contact the attending veterinary facility of the kennel, or take it in for a PROFESSIONAL opinion instead of throwing out thier own uneducated veterinary diagnosis. Afterall.. I see where they have choosen to 'lead' their kennel off with our pups.. Hmm. seems as though they're not so worried about the looks of his tail afterall. And yes.. They are striking looking dogs, have tons of natural potential, are well bred, and they came from my kennel.

Gundogs/Nebraska · Post by **Gundogs/Nebraska** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:02 pm

prairiefirepointers wrote:I can guarantee you unequivocally that that pointer pups tail has never been docked, had a genetic problem, birth defect or anything of the sort. I AM THE BREEDER of the pup in question and he was just born with a 'broomstick tail' simply put. If a person is SOOOO worried about it they could contact the attending veterinary facility of the kennel, or take it in for a PROFESSIONAL opinion instead of throwing out thier own uneducated veterinary diagnosis. Afterall.. I see where they have choosen to 'lead' their kennel off with our pups.. Hmm. seems as though they're not so worried about the looks of his tail afterall. And yes.. They are striking looking dogs, have tons of natural potential, are well bred, and they came from my kennel.

First and foremost, all I was doing was asking everyones opinion, so if you want to get upset about the questions I had about Pokers tail then so be it. I asked you when I showed up to pick him up why his tail was shorter then the other pups and all I was simply doing was getting more input on a Broomstick tail or whatever you want to call it.

And further more, one POSSIBLY made the cut and the other one has been sold. So say what you want. I never once threw your name out there and/or where the pups came from, but if you want to get upset about us simply asking a questions then so be it. It seems to me that you have TOO much time on your hands if your going to get upset about this thred/forum..

Best of luck to you and your future breedings. Hopefully one doesn't come out with a BROOMSTICK tail so no one else will have questions.

wems2371 · Post by **wems2371** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:02 pm

Both of the pups are actually pretty dang nice. I'm new to the EP world, but proud to own both of these pups from what I have seen at a young age.

Prairiefirepointers--I'm pretty sure from the above statement that the new owner's pretty happy with his pups. Seems he had a simple curiosity question that he brought to this forum, and people threw out some possibilities and praise of the pups good looks. Seems like everyone was pretty impressed.

I can guarantee you unequivocally that that pointer pups tail has never been docked, had a genetic problem, birth defect or anything of the sort. I AM THE BREEDER of the pup in question and he was just born with a 'broomstick tail' simply put.

I'm not the forum police (nor do I want to be), but the above was probably good enough. By the way, welcome to GDF. Denise

PowerPoint · Post by **PowerPoint** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:16 pm

Im not trying to start anything on here by any means,but I am going to say what everybody else is thinking in that I dont blame NG for asking those questions,as I have NEVER seen a pointers tail that short by a "natural" event.It is almost as short as some Shorthairs Ive seen.If that dog was born with that tail,and Im not going to touch that debate,then in my opinion,and Im certianly not a vet,just trying to keep my own personal standards for bettering the breed that dog probably should never be bred.

lvrgsp · Post by **lvrgsp** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:23 pm

Hey Jess, welcome aboard, don't let this thread on this forum deter you from posting on further topics. Now the dogs tail in question was just that a question, nothing more, heck if it's not tipped than it's not tipped, but surely you know from being in the pointer world that tipping of pointer tails does go on, maybe not by you, but by others, it surely is no big secret, and sometimes it is warranted by the damage some of them boys do by cracking it so much. Just opinions Jess, thanks for setting us straight.

Chip

bobman · Post by **bobman** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:57 pm

What is the breeding??

clown x elhew

muddycreek · Post by **muddycreek** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:58 pm

"Clown X Elhew"

-to quote Larry the Cable Guy "I don't care who you are, thats funny!"

markj · Post by **markj** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:01 pm

So which one did you keep Tony?

Clown x Elhew is funny sure is...

birdogg42 · Post by **birdogg42** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:07 pm

i had to remove the very tip of my pointers tail, because it would not stop bleeding. i tried everything and nothing would work. if people dont like it then so what! that doesnt make her not find birds!

fuzznut · Post by **fuzznut** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:19 pm

I saw a litter of pointer puppies when they were 2 days old, very good friends with the breeders. One puppy had a shorter tail, much shorter than the rest. Stubby ended, and I know for a fact it was not docked. Another in that litter had a kinked tail, right about in the middle of the tail, a definite kink. The breeder would massage that puppy tail, and try to work out the kink, never worked and the dog had a kinked tail all of it's days. The short tailed dog was sold and they named her Bobby, short for Loraina Bobbick..... remember her?

Genes sometimes play nasty tricks. Neither was ever bred that I know of.
Fuzz

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:10 pm

Tony,

It's not that I have 'too much time on my hands' It has nothing to do with that.. Any dog owner knows they would rather you kick your mama than talk bad about their dogs. I took it personaly being as how I am the breeder of the dog in question. Its a matter of respect. Besides, as a breeder I would have paid for your veterinary visit to settle it once and for all. But, you did'nt come to me, you relied on assumptions. And that's cool, but when a breeder comes back saying 'hey wait a minuite' don't you go getting a kink in your tail. None of my other pups had tails like 'Pokers' (if that's the name still) and heck, lets face it he's a striking looking dog with that poker tail. You Bought Him.

I wish you all the best with your pup. I also tried to influence you to buy the other female, instead of the one you did. She is a FANTASTIC pup and RUNS RUNS RUNS, Natural retriever, and just a sweetheart of a gal. Can't wait to guide some hunts and get some hunts and birds under her belt. I sold Pork a couple weeks ago to a gentleman in Sacremento California, so she's gonna stay with me until I either hunt her a season, or money talks.. You know how that is.
I just want to get along, I have nothing against you, but you met me.. DId I look like I take a lot of trash off of people?
I just don't want people thinking I do things to my dogs to enhance apperance I don't believe in. And that's one of them.

Truly wishing you the best in your endeavors with Poker.
PFP.

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:12 pm

Fuzz,

Lorena Bobbit. Still funny though, because it wasn't us.

Big Dave · Post by **Big Dave** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:30 pm

What do people look like that don't take alot of trash off other people?

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:34 pm

What do people look like that don't take alot of trash off other people?

They look like me!

BTW, that tail was docked. If not a vet and if not the breeder, then my guess is momma.

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:46 pm

maybe it being as straight and thick as it is, it gives some an inferiority complex.

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:58 pm

Oops typo, the "BTW" should have read "IMO". Nice looking pups regardless.

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:16 pm

Thanks. They're Tony's but I appreciate your compliment since they came from our kennel.

Gundogs/Nebraska · Post by **Gundogs/Nebraska** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:21 am

prairiefirepointers wrote:Tony,

It's not that I have 'too much time on my hands' It has nothing to do with that.. Any dog owner knows they would rather you kick your mama than talk bad about their dogs. I took it personaly being as how I am the breeder of the dog in question. Its a matter of respect. Besides, as a breeder I would have paid for your veterinary visit to settle it once and for all. But, you did'nt come to me, you relied on assumptions. And that's cool, but when a breeder comes back saying 'hey wait a minuite' don't you go getting a kink in your tail. None of my other pups had tails like 'Pokers' (if that's the name still) and heck, lets face it he's a striking looking dog with that poker tail. You Bought Him.

I wish you all the best with your pup. I also tried to influence you to buy the other female, instead of the one you did. She is a FANTASTIC pup and RUNS RUNS RUNS, Natural retriever, and just a sweetheart of a gal. Can't wait to guide some hunts and get some hunts and birds under her belt. I sold Pork a couple weeks ago to a gentleman in Sacremento California, so she's gonna stay with me until I either hunt her a season, or money talks.. You know how that is.
I just want to get along, I have nothing against you, but you met me.. DId I look like I take a lot of trash off of people?
I just don't want people thinking I do things to my dogs to enhance apperance I don't believe in. And that's one of them.

Truly wishing you the best in your endeavors with Poker.
PFP.

WELL, WELL, WELL!!!! I'm not going to reply again on this topic, but I do want to state a couple facts. I never ONCE even came close to making comments about your dogs being bad and I dare someone to try to kick my Mama..

Like I had mentioned before, I was simply asking a question if anyone had seen a tail like that before. And further more, I DID NOT buy Poker, my son did, so lets make sure that one is out in the open as well. I had question about his tail when I first seen him, but my son fell in love with the pictures he saw of him and I wasn't going to go against what he wanted, but maybe I should have. (further more, for what he paid for him, he should have bought a CH sired pup and yes they are out there for that price and dang good bred ones as well)

And I never did say what dog we kept, so on your assumption that it was Poker then so be it, I flat out didn't like the looks of the Dora pup, she had NO flash to her in my opinion, so I think I picked the right pup that would possibly fit what we wanted. And I hope Dora does you fine. In the very end, I purchased the female pup from you to help move a pup for you and have a possible trial dog, but I guess now I should have just left her there and let you try to move her. After all they were what almost 15 weeks old and you still had 5 pups if I'm not mistaken and another litter on the way possibly.. OUCH!!! Sounds like a lot of work to me with a family that is working full time.

But WHATEVER!!! Take care and best of luck on your kennel..

T

PowerPoint · Post by **PowerPoint** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:35 am

Tisk tisk....

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:10 pm

Ha ha.. Sounds like you have alot of pent up frustraiton.. I'm sure if a person dug around enough they could find evidence of that..... Anyways don't worry about me moving dogs, I make a heck of a lot more money off them the longer I keep them. Say what you want. It only shows your character. I have tried numerous times to be nice. I have had clients who were looking for Labs and wanted to know if I had any connections or anything so I gave them your number and email. I called and left you messages, to let you know, and I never even received a courtesy email back to say thanks. I had 7 different clients out of that particular litter, and you're the only one crying foul. (the only one period actually)

I had question about his tail when I first seen him, but my son fell in love with the pictures he saw of him and I wasn't going to go against what he wanted, but maybe I should have.

I save every email for my business just in case I run across a person like yourself. If you were so in question and wasn't sure about him, let me dig up some of your emails and post them. YOU RAVED about Poker when you seen him and BOTH of them after you got them home. I have too many great clients to worry about the one I wish now I hadn't dealt with at all. When it comes right down to it I think your upset because (A) I refused to sell you the one dog you really wanted. and (B) I found you talking smack and called you on it.

Good luck man, all things aside we are both businessmen dealing in dogs. I will still send people to PVR despite all of this. For the simple fact that I trust you have excellent dogs. It is not my job to judge you. There is only one judge of character and I am not it. Wish things could have turned out better for you.
PFP.

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:33 pm

I've read this whole thread and do not see any reason for this sparring that the two of you are engaged in. I strongly suggest if you have more to say do it by PM and let the rest of us get on with something we can learn about.

Ezzy

Duane M · Post by **Duane M** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:02 pm

I don't visit much but I have seen several tails like that and every last one has been tipped. It's a common practice with lot's of breeders for different reasons. My question is why so defensive about such a common practice?

birdsandbirds · Post by **birdsandbirds** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:32 pm

Tails are docked everyday. What difference does it make? I like the tail myself docked or not.

birdsandbirds · Post by **birdsandbirds** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:37 pm

A little docking on the Dora pups tail would have straightned it right on out. She has that Fibber tail and docking will cure that problem.

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:56 pm

ha ha.. Yeah as fast as she is, she's gonna slam a point one time and snap it straight permenately.