sending dogs to a trainer

[Englishsetterhunter]

why do people send dogs to a trainer i would never buy a dog unless i had the time to train the dog i train my dogs so taht when they point and retrieve that bird i know i helped the dog get thier though its mostly genetics but atleast its my working witht he dog to build a bond with it inwhich it will hunt for me not some other random guy who i dont know building a bond with MY dog. and all my dogs have been great so i dont get it WHY SEND THE DOG TO A TRAINER

[gar-dog]

For me, it's not so much the time to train (which is part of it though) but the expertise to train. I want a good hunting dog, yet I have never owned a bird-dog before. I have done a lot with her as is, but a month or two with a trainer cannot hurt.

[Maurice]

Time, land, birds and know how.. I'm sure glad that people send thier dogs for training.

Mo

[Brushbustin Sporting Dogs]

Trainers that work your dog can get some much more potential out of your dog. I remember what I use to think was good dog work and now10 years later what I think is good dog work is completely different. I'm not saying your a bad trainer or anything and for what you want out of your dog its probably great for you, but I'm sure there are things your dog could do that you don't have the time or expertise to get out of your dog. I can teach a dog to do anything but can I run it off horseback everyday,no, can I even work it on birds everyday,no, there are just things they can do that I don't have time for. And your dog won't bond with someone else that trains thems. Are bond with are dogs is WAY stronger than there bond to us.

Robbie

[WildRose]

Once many years ago I was in horrible pain. I knew enough about anatomy and phsiology that I knew I had an abcessed tooth. Unfortunately I was many days away from qualified medical/dental care and I had a mission to complete. Yep, pulled out the pliers and pulled out the bad tooth. Sure enough I broke off part of the root, which had to be extracted by an endodontist six months later but hey I got it done pretty well, well enough to get over the infection anyway.

That didn't make me a dentist though and I choose to go to a professional who has the skills, the time, the equipment, when I need dental care. He's far less likely to screw up an extraction than I am and if he does, well he has malpractice insurance! HA!~

Name the skill or profession and you will find lots of people that enjoy doing what many of them (the pro's) do in their off time for fun and relaxation because they enjoy it. I know people that build their own homes, boats, cabinets you name it because they get a lot of satisfaction out of doing the job themselves.

The world goes round because there are professionals to do the things we can't, shouldn't, or don't enjoy doing, as well as lots of people that like doing it themselves.

I'm a pretty successful professional in my own right. This spring after I'd put 8 points on one of my dogs I came to a cross roads. None of the rest of the trials I was planning to attend were offering AA stakes, and this dog had gone completely over to being AA all the time. I had a choice I could leave her at home, keep running her in stakes that flat weren't appropriate or send her off to another pro who was going to several more trials that offered AA stakes, on grounds she does well on. Off she went, four placements in a row, and one more point and she's done. CR

[tfbirddog2]

One of my good friends is a trainer lot sof dogs come to him already trained by the owner, all he does is put the finishing touch or power, tilt, and cruise on them or get them ready for hunting season.Thats what alot of pros are for.

[Englishsetterhunter]

hey i dont mind getting together with pros and training dogs together and getting tips and seeing how they work with your dog. i should have been more clear i mean i wouldnt send my dog away and not be apart of the process i like to be apart of the process 100% of the time i would wanna be at every training session! though i think its good to get together and join a club and work your dogs with other people because thats how you learn but i couldnt send the dog away see em in 3 months and expect em to listen to me id wanna be thier all those three months for every training session learning

[GSP9]

ESH,

I have ample time, tons of land, plenty of birds, but I sent my dog to a trainer. In my opinion sometimes to get your dog to be the best it can be a fresh set of eyes and some different methods goes a long way. Many of these pro trainers have been doing this for a very long time and are great at what they do. They've worked thousands of dogs and can read a dog better than a person who has had a dozen or so in his life.

When mine came back from the trainer our bond was even stronger, and he hunts FOR me. There was no change at all there...and he spends most of his time in the house with us.

I've noticed allot of your posts are about how great your dogs are and how great of a trainer you are and how you shouldn't kennel dogs, etc. etc. I think taking some time to talk to a pro might go a long way for you...and maybe enlighten your opinons on this bird dog thing. Sorry for the comments...your posts just rub me the wrong way.

[AHGSP]

And then there are the "ooops" that need to be fixed, that often only a Pro can fix.

[GSP9]

Sorry about my first post in this thread...I just saw this from you in the "hunting" forum...

"thats mad funny about your son im 15 and yeah it definetely works my setter attracts A TON of girls and just random people."

If you are 15 years old, my best advice to you would be to find a pro in your area and volunteer to help him around his kennel, help him work dogs, do anything you can. I guarantee you if it is the right pro you will learn more in a few weeks than you could ever imagine.

[romeo212000]

I spent the first 7 months of my dogs life training it myself. I sent her away to a trainer for 4 months after extensive interviewing and search. I was on the phone with him every 2 weeks getting updates on how things were going. Why you ask? Because That trainer has 10 times the capability that I do as a trainer. I can train a dog to hun. Heck they practiclly do that on their own anyways. But I do not have the expertise to force fetch a dog. I will be running my dog in NSTRA trials and I did not have the assets, time, or ability to get her full potential out of her. For me not to do everything I can to make her the best she can be because I want to be the only one to teach her to do it would be a huge disservice to her. Now that I have gotten her back, she is already ten times the dog I could have ever made her. All I have to do is continue the training and use the tools he gave her and she will continue to grow as a gun dog. So please dont judge me for sending my dog to a trainer.

[Englishsetterhunter]

ESH,


I've noticed allot of your posts are about how great your dogs are and how great of a trainer you are and how you shouldn't kennel dogs, etc. etc. I think taking some time to talk to a pro might go a long way for you...and maybe enlighten your opinons on this bird dog thing. Sorry for the comments...your posts just rub me the wrong way.

i'm just saying ive gotten what ive wanted out of my setters and im proud of that since i put a lot of time into them sorry for sounding rude and obnoxious yeah ure right my posts would rub me the wrong way to if i read em i guess i am narrowminded but im just kinda playing devils advocate asking all these questions and saying my views on the kenneling and other posts because i wanna hear what other people think im trying to learn as much as possible so sorry if i sounded like an idiot

[wems2371]

ive gotten what ive wanted out of my setters

I think this is the key to it all. If you're happy with what you're doing, stick with it. I don't knock or judge anyone using a trainer, because if I had the money right now I'd send a horse off, even though I've broke plenty of horses. Sending my dog off however would be like losing a right hand for my husband and myself. We would be lost without the morning face licks and funny antics, even if it was for only a month. So in our case, it's constantly asking questions before we approach something new, lots of books/dvds, joining NAVHDA, and going for a hands on lesson with the breeder every once in a while for guidance. Again, I think it's all about how much time and learning you have to put into it, your available training resources, and what you are looking for in the end. Denise

[3Britts]

Like I've said many times. My dogs will hunt with the best of them. One of the reasons is that they all started out with a professional trainer. The trainer is not emotionally attached to my dogs and gets them started off right. I am more attached to my Britts and tend to overlook some of the small errors that keep them from becoming great hunters. I have spent several weeks with my trainer and will so again. My dogs will spend more time with him as well. Just because I did not do all of the training, does not mean that I do not have a strong bond with them. My dogs listen to my voice and those of my sons first. We all train the dogs to hunt. But, I want my dogs to hunt great, the trainer allows that. There is a reason that some dogs win, time and again, at trials and some only show.

[VLadyInRed]

For us it's geography. Our puppy is doing well in the field, but with the heat in humidity in South Florida in the summer, you can run pups at midnight or not at all. He's going up to North Dakota with a trainer for 2 months so that he can get exposure to wild birds, new and different fields, daily horseback running and getting to run without passing out from heatstroke after 5 minutes.

[bullseyebill]

I'm someone that didn't want to send our dog to a trainer but she eventually went for 2 months. Here's why.

1. I'm a beginner, I made some mistakes and didn't want to make more, was unsure how to proceed to correct what I had done, and needed help to correct what I had done. The trainer helped with the issues and now she's back with us and I feel better about moving forward.

2. I live in the Chicago suburbs, there are no wild birds around, I don't have access to pigeons, the closest bird supplier is 50 minutes away, not many places to train your dog where they aren't in danger of getting hit by a car.

Yes, it is possible to train her in the area but see 1 above. Now that's she's back, we use the bird supplier and use what open space we can find.

Cindy

[Elkhunter]

My EP is at a trainer now, so far so good he says. I worked with him for about 20 months before I sent him out. But I want him broke so I can run him in horseback trials. To accomplish that it takes consistent training and birds. Everyday type stuff. I dont have the time to do that. I work a ton, have a 9 month old girl that keeps me WAY busy. And he will accomplish more in 3 months than I would in a year I would imagine. To each their own I guess, if you have the time and the birds to get it done then you are lucky!! Plus I drew 3 big-game hunts this year so I will be VERY busy!!

[lucky guy]

It would be hard to send my dog away for 4 months too. I was lucky enough to find a breeder close to home, close enough that after I did the basic obedience training with him, I'd drop the dog off in the morning, pick him up in the evening. I got to know the trainer pretty well, talked to him most every day about how things were going, etc. The timing worked out so that I was able to hunt him during the last couple months of the training too. It's a real advantage to using a local trainer if you're lucky enough to find a good one close by.

As far as using a pro trainer, there are alot of different levels of experience here on the board, but after watching the process day to day for 4 months I don't believe that very many non-pros are going to get as much out of a dog as a pro will.

[Don]

It would be hard to send my dog away for 4 months too. I was lucky enough to find a breeder close to home, close enough that after I did the basic obedience training with him, I'd drop the dog off in the morning, pick him up in the evening. I got to know the trainer pretty well, talked to him most every day about how things were going, etc. The timing worked out so that I was able to hunt him during the last couple months of the training too. It's a real advantage to using a local trainer if you're lucky enough to find a good one close by.

As far as using a pro trainer, there are alot of different levels of experience here on the board, but after watching the process day to day for 4 months I don't believe that very many non-pros are going to get as much out of a dog as a pro will.

Hey Lucky Guy. That you over in Sisters? Say yes and I think I still have a photo of your dog in here and I'm gonna show everybody! Welcome aboard!

[Greg Jennings]

ESH,

Some of us send our dogs to a pro trainer or a pro handler because we're intelligent, rationale and experienced enough to know when it makes sense to do so.

Greg J.

[phermes1]

My 2 pups are going to North Dakota for 2 months with a pro. Why? Because the experience should be great for them and I don't have the funds, know-how, or 2 months vacation to do it myself.

[tdhusker]

Aftger many years of hunting dogs that were trained by yours truly, I broke down and sent a very promising setter to a top notch trainer this spring. The results are shockingly good. He and I learned more than I thought possible.

Best money I ever spent.

[lucky guy]

Hey Lucky Guy. That you over in Sisters? Say yes and I think I still have a photo of your dog in here and I'm gonna show everybody! Welcome aboard!

Hi Don! Thanks, nice spot here. Once it cools down a little we'll have to get the boys together! Hope all is going well for you.

Glenn

[LarryLowell]

why do people send dogs to a trainer i would never buy a dog unless i had the time to train the dog i train my dogs so taht when they point and retrieve that bird i know i helped the dog get thier though its mostly genetics but atleast its my working witht he dog to build a bond with it inwhich it will hunt for me not some other random guy who i dont know building a bond with MY dog. and all my dogs have been great so i dont get it WHY SEND THE DOG TO A TRAINER

Well thats you, and that works for you, great. But because you see things one way doesnt mean that everyone has to see it your way too.

Alot of people dont have the time, or the know how, and just want it done right, without having to fix problems. If you actually break down the costs of training a dog yourself, at least out here in California, if you were to add gas to get to a field to train, the cost of birds, and out here pigeons run $4-$5, Bobwhite quail $5.50, Chukar $9.00, Pheasant $15, the equipment needed, time, etc... its not that much cheaper doing the training yourself verse using a Pro. Example out here there are areas that you can pay to train a dog just for the grounds. Its $15 a day, most people to get there at $4.60 a gallon are going to spend $10-$30, and maybe more if your drive a truck with diesel running around $5.25-$5.50, then you add in birds, just figure two of what ever thats, $10-$30 a day. With young dog you want to use alot of fly away pigeons so add it up, Doing the math, each day afield training is going to cost at a minimum for most people $45-$55 a day, and depending on where you train and how far you are from ground it could be as high as $55-$65 plus a day. Then add in training equipment, videos, books, etc... If your going to train your dog right at a MINIMUM, your going to have to committ to at least 2 days a week if not more, again do the math. For about the same cost of you training your own dog two days a week (at least out here in California) you can get it done by a Pro whos going to work your dog ALOT more. I work all my dogs in Training everyday, and if my customers apply themself they'll learn along the way.

To be real, lot of people dont have the time, and dont give a crap about the training aspect of their dog, they want the dog for hunting and to be part of the family. Different strokes for different folks. For those that want to do it themselfs its a great experience and alot of fun, But people are different and have different goals in life and with their dogs. Lifes about Family, Work, Money and Time in general, and people try to balance all that out according to their individual needs.

So Why do people send a dog to a Trainer, because they want to, that what they choose to do, and what works best for their situation.

Larry Lowell

[romeo212000]

Also, before I sent my GSP to the trainer I was pretty pleased with what she was doing because I had taught her. I thought the trainer would be way ahead of schedule with her because I had done such a good job. Come to find out he had to correct some small things in my training before he could progress with his. Now that I understand his program and what he expects I can train my next dog to prepare to send to him. When I got her back she was 10 times the dog I sent away. What I thought was good was not nearly as good as I thought, especially compared to what he was able to with her. That is why people send their dogs to trainers. They are professional trainers a trialers for a reason.

[rstbkt69]

Larry, the guy 2 posts up has My GSP at this very moment. I thought I was going to be able to train her myself. Spent a lot of money on some usefull tools and wasted some money on things I didn't need to buy. Then I ran into this scheduling thing. Work, wife two teenage kids and all the things they had to get done in school and sports and regular social life stuff. All that got in the way. I did not have any consistant time open to devote to her. I tried for a month or 2 and thought she would at least be able to do one thing right. Well turns out she was doing everything right. Too bad I didn't train her to do it the right way. She was doing exactly what her owner was telling her. but it was the wrong stuff the wrong way. I have no access to birds, well there are some wild ones here and there but who can count on that when you need to work on staying steady. So I taught her to point and fetch bumpers. Sure hope bumper season opens up soon because she will be killer on those. Got a place in my freezer cleaned out for all the bumperI plan on shooting. Might even take one to a taxidermist if I get a good one. The only things I did right was not to use the wing on a string more than a couple of times and took the plunge and ponied up the money to let a pro train her. She is turning into a remakable dog. I would have never gotten her to this point. And as remarkable as she seems to me, Larry is still going to be able to get more out of her, I can't begin to tell you what the full potential of this dog is, But a pro can see what shes got and develop everthing she has in her to be the best gundog she is able to be. I go out to the trainers place every couple of weeks to let Larry and the dog teach me how to work with her. I'd go more but the gas is Killing me. This week I will bring my son out so he can help out with the training and learn how to work with the dogs also. letting Larry train my dog has got to be the best decision I have ever made concerning her well being.
Jim

[rockllews]

why do people send dogs to a trainer i would never buy a dog unless i had the time to train the dog i train my dogs so taht when they point and retrieve that bird i know i helped the dog get thier though its mostly genetics but atleast its my working witht he dog to build a bond with it inwhich it will hunt for me not some other random guy who i dont know building a bond with MY dog. and all my dogs have been great so i dont get it WHY SEND THE DOG TO A TRAINER

ESH, If you never buy a dog unless you have all the time in the world (and money and know-how) to train it all by yourself, then you apparently are luckier than most. Think of how many would never be able to buy a sporting dog if they followed that creed. Why not just consider all the mis/un-trained pets out there. Then think of what a trainer can do.

Give yourself a few years, when you're out of high school and either going to college or trying to make a living or raise a family, and then see if you can question others' sane, intelligent, well-reasoned decision to send their dogs to a trainer. If you're happy with your dogs and their level of training, then great, but like others said, the Pros can get it done the right way and often turn out a dog better than could have been perceived. This is coming from someone who hasn't even had the OPPORTUNITY to send one of her dogs off yet, but I'm going to push it for our next pup coming this summer. Our current dogs make us happy and proud in the field, but I know for all their natural talent and our training, they could have been even better with a refined touch from a pro. Heck, I've seen what the pups we've bred can do under a pro, and it's not so much the improvement in style, which they've got, but it's the experience they gain. I want this new pup to reach his potential. I know it'll take someone with more knowledge and birds than me to do that.

Then... hopefully I will learn enough to train a few dogs professionally myself... but until that day comes (and it's a LONG way off), I'll trust what pros are out there now, given I like their techniques.

Now, I know you're ruffling a few feathers out there (everybody does eventually)... and then having to defend yourself by saying you're playing 'devil's advocate.' My tip to you is to thoughtfully consider what and how you type/pose questions/claims. This forum is great for learning 'bout birddogs and stuff, and it's wonderful, that as a youth, you are so interested in this. Keep it up, but keep it respectful... this isn't MySpace Enjoy your summer off... I know we'll be seeing you around GDF.

[sweetsong]

ESH,

Most people use other people for training all the time, if not their dogs then their own kids, by sending them to school teachers, athletic coaches and youth group mentors. By sending your dog or your children for some training, you are preparing them to be the best they can be.

Terry

[Killer Instinct]

AHHHH.... now I know I made the right decision sending my Abby (ESS) last week from Alaska to Ohio for 3 1/2 mos - I just read the above posts & wrap everything up in a nutshell:

1) Not sure what I'm doing - send her out
2) No close training fields - send her out
3) Way cheaper for everything (birds, gas, etc) down "below" than in AK - send her out
4) No pro's in AK - send her out
5) Short Summer season before stupid snow comes - send her out
6) When she comes back in 10/08 trained - PRICELESS

[zzweims]

So I taught her to point and fetch bumpers. Sure hope bumper season opens up soon because she will be killer on those.

Ok, that is hysterical

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[lucky guy]

I wish training my teenager was as simple as sending her to a trainer for a couple of months. Hmmm, haven't tried the e-collar yet.

[tommyboy72]

I must be the oddball out here because I am about the send my dog off to a trainer to be FF trained. He is 4 years old and I have only had him one year and he did not come to me trained to retrieve. The reason I am sending him away is that I have precious little patience and a relatively short temper and I have all the videos on FF training but I do not believe I have the experience or patience and temper span needed to teach this. I love getting the dogs out and hunting them and working them in on birds and field training but when it comes to repetitive monotonous training like FF training, for me it is best left up to a pro so I dont mess up an otherwise good thing.

[rstbkt69]

Good point, I don't think I would be able to have the patience required even though I didn't mention it in my post above. At first i didn't have much of a problem, it was like " OK lets try that again". But as she would start to understand what I was trying to get her to do I would get frustrated if we had to back up a little. Guys who have trained for a while seem to have the patience of a saint.

[prairiefire]

We recognize that we don't have the time, resources--and most importantly, talents to give Otto the bird exposure and direction that he needs to be successful in the field. I wouldn't send him off to just anyone, but we happened to get lucky--we have a very talented pro practically in our own backyard. After his basic intro to guns and birds, Otto went hunting in ND last fall, TX this winter, and will head back to ND this Saturday for a total of 17 weeks on wild birds this year. You just can't take that kind of time and hold a job/pay the bills... Not unless you get lucky and find yourself a sugar daddy.

[tommyboy72]

I totally agree with the patience thing. Trainers seem to have almost magical powers when it comes to getting a dog do what they want but I know it is all in patience and repetition much like with a small child. Unfortunately all my patience is being used on my 10 month old son right now.

[zzweims]

EHS,

I trained my own dogs when I was your age, and it was the most rewarding experience. Were they the best trained dogs? Not by a long shot (did get an audition for one on The Gong Show, though), but I was happy with them. Read as much as you can, visit and learn from other trainers--pro and amateur, then follow your heart. You may never have this much time and passion again.

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