weimaraner/gsp

dust gsp · Post by **dust gsp** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:46 pm

looking at getting one this fall just trying to get a feel for what would be a better dog for me
i am looking for a indoor house pet and good hunting
i do mostly upland pheasant hunting but do some waterfowl too
and looking for breeders near Minnesota
i have never had a pointing dog
just hunted over labs

aylaschamp · Post by **aylaschamp** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:18 pm

People can train any dog to do almost anything but certain breeds are easier. I'm not biased at all!

Your dog has to be your choice. Pick a breed that you feel good about and devote yourself to it. I started with GSPs and have been extremely lucky. I have a good friend that runs in hunt tests with his Weims and loves them the same way I love my GSPs. I fear in making suggestions I may offend some but when it comes to Weims you need to be very selective on breeders if you want a excellent upland dog. GSPs are the same to some extent but if I can make one hunt almost anyone can. :roll:

dust gsp · Post by **dust gsp** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:45 pm

i am leaning more to gsp but weims look so pretty my wife likes them

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:22 am

That's the problem with Weims. There are some out there that are really nice bird dogs and some breeders really killing themselves to make them a greater percentage of the breed. But for many generations the primary driving force behind the breeding of Weims was purely for looks and for pets.

If you settle on a Weim be SURE and do your home work and make sure they come from very strong hunting lines, or you run a high risk of being terribly disappointed.

Get to some hunt tests, get to some trials, and see what those breeders have to offer. CR

tfbirddog2 · Post by **tfbirddog2** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:43 am

Wiems are pretty, heres what I ask you are you getting a hunting dog/haouse dog, or is your wife getting a pretty house dog?Both breeds are good choices, research both to see what you think talk to people that have them.Both breeds are easy to train.There are good GSP breeders in Minn. and I know of one Weim breeder I know there are more but as far as a hunting breeder for sure Bransetters(I think) they are in S.W. Minn. near Tracey or Marshall I think.Good luck.

stumpy · Post by **stumpy** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:50 am

If you are truley interested in Weims you should pm zzweims. She is a breeder of great working weims and can really give some great info. She is a breeder of some great dogs, but she will point you in the right direction, even if her dogs are not right for you.

zzweims · Post by **zzweims** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:10 pm

They are both great breeds, but when buying a weim, you have to be particularly careful. I would guess that less than 1% of weim breeders put hunting ability above all else. But that 1% puts out some very nice, and very competetive dogs. Up in your area are Kevin Jahr and Duane Yoder. I don't believe they have pups now, but may in the future. There is also Bonstetter kennels in MN. I've not seen their dogs personally, but on paper they look good. And then there are mine

I've got one female pup available from my Chevy x Amsel breeding (NAFC AFC Aztec's American Pie, JH, SDX x Amor's Amsel zum Ziel, SH, NRD).

[img]http://i28.tinypic.comName%20of%20kennel/168a7ax.jpg[/img]

And don't rule out the GWP. All of them are good retrievers, but the GWP is the best in cold water!

Aline
http://sitekreator.com/zzfarms

jhoughton · Post by **jhoughton** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:18 pm

Have Aline ship you a pup...one of the few weim breeders that have dogs that will hunt...

h20fwlkillr · Post by **h20fwlkillr** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:39 am

Both will get the job done, but if you do much waterfowling in extreme temps, you will be disappointed in either. Don't have the coats or build for the cold water. GWP, or a retriever would be a better choice.

It is easier to find great gsp's than even good weims. On average, a good weim will cost a great deal more than a good GSP.There are some really great weim breeders out there, but many more just in it for a quick buck. Make sure if you decide on a weim to either go with a proven breeder, or see the dam (sire too if possible) work in the field. If the breeder is unwilling to do it, walk away. Be wary of breeders that say "sure my dogs are great hunters, just look at their pedigrees". If you just see a NSD or NRD title (WCA) or two ( neither of which are difficult to get). Make them prove their dogs, or I would keep looking for a breeder. There are quite a few that just go after a couple easy titles on their dogs to increase sale price.

Good Gsp's are a dime a dozen, so to speak. There are MANY great lines and breeders out there and quite a few hobby breeders producing some really nice dogs. As with any breed, see the parents in the field , go with proven lines or both.

dust gsp · Post by **dust gsp** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:31 am

i do not hunt much water foul just the 1st ad 2nd weekend and it is not that cold then

h20fwlkillr · Post by **h20fwlkillr** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:32 am

dust gsp wrote:i do not hunt much water foul just the 1st ad 2nd weekend and it is not that cold then

Then either breed will work. Decide which breed you like better and pick a pup from good parents/lines.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:50 am

A good dog is a good dog. As everyone has said, there are just more "good" gsps available. The gene pool is just so wide and deep.

If you are near to the Twin Cities, you might contact Clyde Vetter at http://www.sharpshooterskennel.com/index.htm . Clyde wouldn't know me from Adam, but I have seen a great many GSPs of his breeding doing well at NAVHDA events.

If you wife thinks that Weimers look good, don't let her see a Vizsla or your problems will be multiplied. If the cat gets out of the bag, you might try http://www.rockwoodkennels.net/rockwoodvizsla.htm . They are down in Baraboo, WI. I've seen some of their V's in tests and they did well. Just MHO, but you'd want to check carefully about V's and Weim's ability to handle the cold for your needs. You might not see it as cold, but it might still be uncomfortable for them or require you to use a neoprene vest or similar.

Greg J.

romeo212000 · Post by **romeo212000** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:22 am

Either can be just as good as the other with the right dog and that entails the right breeding. The problem as above posters have stated is that Weims have been breed a lot more as pets and show dogs than GSP's. If you get a Weim from a good line you could have an amazing dog. Just do your research first. Ask to see the parents work. Same with GSP's as well. Your work will be a bit easier with GSP's though because they have been bred more often than not as bird dogs rather than pets. Have a good friend of mine that is tempted to throw in the towel in his 3.5 yr old weim because she just doesnt have it. She loves birds but some key componenents are not there. She is clearly more of a house pet. She doesn't run hard in the field, she is very submissive and will let another dog take over duties when hunting with another dog. She is a pretty big boot licker as well. Problem is, I just cannot convince him of the importance of blood lines and breeding. Well he is paying the proce right now. My youngest GSP is only a year old and will easily out hunt her any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Dont steer away from Weims because of this. Just know what you are looking for and getting in to. Do the same things with any dog you are looking at. One thing about GSP's. They shed like no body's business. Dont know about weims.

Englishsetterhunter · Post by **Englishsetterhunter** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:24 am

heres a website of what appears to be really good weimeraners!!!! they have youtube videos of thier dogs so you can see thier weims work and they were on tv on bass pro shops next generation hunting so they do have really good dogs

http://winsomeweims.com/ breeders website

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PhQBZyygEBA hunting video of their dogs

ALL DOGS IN THESE ARE WEIMS from WINSOMEWEIMS.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmOlnNAnPBI hunting video of their dogs

those are some good dogs !!

hubweims · Post by **hubweims** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:03 am

Englishsetterhunter wrote:heres a website of what appears to be really good weimeraners!!!! they have youtube videos of thier dogs so you can see thier weims work and they were on tv on bass pro shops next generation hunting so they do have really good dogs

http://winsomeweims.com/ breeders website

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PhQBZyygEBA hunting video of their dogs

ALL DOGS IN THESE ARE WEIMS from WINSOMEWEIMS.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmOlnNAnPBI hunting video of their dogs

those are some good dogs !!

i can vouch personally for dan and kim wendel at winsome. they are my breeder. you won't find better dogs, and if they don't have exactly what you want they will help you find it. they are great people, and they will absolutely keep in close touch with you for any help or guidance along the way. BPS has done two shoots over their dogs. i did one last year that will air this fall, and they did one the previous year that aired and reruns now.

skeenan · Post by **skeenan** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:43 pm

We have one well-bred Weim, two that were from a pet store (puppy mill dogs) and one that we don't know anything about where he came from. We took the well-bred Weim & one of the pet store Weims to be looked at by a trainer who owns & hunt tests GSPs. The pet store Weim showed more natural ability.

I'm no hunting expert or trainer by ANY means, I guess my point is that I think many Weims still have a strong hunting urge regardless of background/breeding. They're definitely not just house dogs. They may not be as desirable to work with as other breeds (they can be a little stubborn at times!) but I wouldn't consider them to have a lesser natural hunting urge than any other pointing breed. Just my humble opinion...

AND I think they're pretty... not that I'm biased or anything...

zzweims · Post by **zzweims** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:28 pm

skeenan wrote: We took the well-bred Weim & one of the pet store Weims to be looked at by a trainer who owns & hunt tests GSPs. The pet store Weim showed more natural ability.

Sadly, I believe this completely. In the weim world, a well-bred weim is one that has had the hunt bred OUT of it. Generally, the more CH titles you see in the pedigree, the worse the dog is in the field (think setters). BYBs and puppymills neither try to improve nor try to eliminate hunting ability, so occasionally you'll find a poorly bred weim that is actually a decent hunting dog. Or not.

skeenan wrote: I'm no hunting expert or trainer by ANY means, I guess my point is that I think many Weims still have a strong hunting urge regardless of background/breeding. They're definitely not just house dogs. They may not be as desirable to work with as other breeds (they can be a little stubborn at times!) but I wouldn't consider them to have a lesser natural hunting urge than any other pointing breed. Just my humble opinion...

skeenan: you sound like a really nice guy, but you need to get out more

The Weimaraner in America today has less natural hunting ability than probably any other breed out there. That's not to say that the average weim won't chase a squirrel in the backyard now and then, but a 10 minute squirrel chase (or a pretty puppy point on a planted quail) cannot compare to the demands of a 6 hour wild bird hunt. A well bred dog, of any breed, will hunt flat out, slingin mud and blood from it's paws, until the hunter makes it stop.

Dust:

Please don't think I'm trying to talk you out of a Weimaraner. Clearly, I love the breed. But in any given year, there are maybe a half dozen litters born in America that produce weims to make any hunter proud. There are some excellent dogs behind the Wendel's weim Cash and they have a pup of his available. The Wilburs in Texas have two boy pups from an excellent breeding, and there is a Blue x JJ puppy out west (male) that I would snap up in a heartbeat if I weren't already full.

Aline
http://sitekreator.com/zzfarms

skeenan · Post by **skeenan** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:59 pm

skeenan: you sound like a really nice guy, but you need to get out more

Ha ha! I may sound like a really nice guy, but I'm a really great girl in person...

You're right, I don't know much about the hunting end, as in, I don't compete, haven't tried hunting my dogs and I don't follow the sport closely. When I have looked around online, the majority in competition have seemed to be GSPs. You do know that Weimaraner means knucklehead in German, right?

My guys (and girl) are *obsessed* with squirrels and have all killed more than a few. And rats, when we had them in our barn two winters ago... yuck! And their energy seems endless... I do hope to get Rufus (the pet store dog and my avatar) out in the field this fall, with friends who bird hunt. Hopefully he'll do OK for a pet store Weim... LOL!

Good luck with your decision!

And pictures, when the time comes...

Oscar · Post by **Oscar** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:41 pm

many years ago ( 35 ) I haved VERY , very good weimaraner for ducks, quail, and hares.

The best were germany blood ( 50 % ) . In my country- México- no more breeding good dog and is for that my next dog were american labs ( in this moment I have a NFC Eba son ) and american pointer ( AA stock ). Bat I remember my weimaraner and that dogs were good hunting dogs. My best dog I think was a AA weimaraner dog I think ( no AA american field dog like american field you know ) and my more powerfull dog summing !!! ( yes).

Ringo was more speeedy that a hare !!! ( he was able to outrun a hare )

Morgan my last weimaraner ( the picture was in 1986) he was winner in a retriever test vs labs in my country.

This dog was wetobe blood in him for his father and some germany blood for his mother . Shell ha.

All my weimaraner were very good for deffense training too !! Morgan was the first no working dog haved his Temperament Title

TT by FCM or FCI

zzweims · Post by **zzweims** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:40 am

Oscar:

Those are great photos! I love the one of Ringo running

I've got a German weim like that--incredibly powerful and fast. I've raced him against our horses, and only my husband's big TWH could out run him. He leaves the little Paso Finos in the dust

Where in Mexico are you? I hunted Baja a lot as a kid with my dad. And I almost sold a pup from my current litter to a guy in Zacatecas. Unfortunately, he wanted a boy and all I have is a girl. It would have been a good excuse for a road trip

Aline
http://sitekreator.com/zzfarms

Oscar · Post by **Oscar** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:42 am

Thanks Aline

. I live in Jalisco .

Yesterday I recomend you a person ( is Mexican man bat live in Arizona) need a puppy

. In México we have a horseback competitions- american field shooting dog standard - and I love TWH too. They are very noble animal .

Oscar Chávez

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deowCmLLsoU
My actual lab . 450 yard blind retriever

zzweims · Post by **zzweims** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:00 am

I wondered what sort of field competetions are held in Mexico. In your field trials, is it primarily pointers? Do you see many of the versatile breeds (gsp, gwp, brittney, weim, etc) competing? Maybe I've got an excuse for a south of the border road trip afterall

Is your gas still cheap down there? I heard that the Mexican government is going to raise the price.

And thanks for the Arizona reference. Have your friend contact me. zumziel@windstream.net or 478-451-0646

Aline
http://sitekreator.com/zzfarms

Oscar · Post by **Oscar** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:26 am

Our competitions are american field shooting dog ( horseback ) continuos curses , wilds quails

. A few are ES and more EP no other ( only a very few american field red setter -Stan , Dr Boser..-) . The land is big ( we can to run AA american field bat we have not AA competitions) and the dog are big running american field pointer dogs . You can to read en The American Field . We have only one champ , one open classic, and one amateur classic. Many times the juices are american man, a few time Mexican ( I was the juice some times and juice two champ in my country).

The field trial land ( the picture is in feb in our champ)

Galery

This year champ "mucho"

This year classic winner Soto sauza tequila

My dog pepe grillo in the derbie is lost by professional Bob Pettit ( I training and run my dog bat Bob is a friend and he help with my dog rin the line only...)

I read the Arizona person in a Mexican foro, he is not my friend I do not to know him

...

Thanks for all

Oscar Chávez

zzweims · Post by **zzweims** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:31 am

Incredible photos and beautiful country! Where is the championship held?

Aline
http://sitekreator.com/zzfarms

Oscar · Post by **Oscar** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:42 am

Thanks Aline. The field trial Land is in Morelos, near Cuernavaca or Cuautla .

The juices this year champ ( Georgia people) Bobby Hatrwig and Billy ( scope) Renfroe

To the left is Mexico friend Joe Willer ( daied) juice in our country, you know Dogherty ( editor field trial magazine ). he was juice in our country. Lordy -juice too- and me Oscar Chávez.

TrueBlu Shorthairs · Post by **TrueBlu Shorthairs** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:38 pm

Just AWESOME Oscar!!!

Aline, I think I'm in love. You seem to be the most realistic Weim person I have ever seen!!! Can we sneak around??

I'd tell dustgsp to get a shorthair. You will have a far better chance of getting an excellent dog by going with a GSP. With that said, I would now tend to tell you to CALL Aline and to check with Kevin Jahr. Don't tell him Blake recommended him!!! His Rev dog was a really neat dog back before electricity but Kevin knows his stuff. If you speak to him, tell him it's too bad he'd come to Texas and old York would make Rev look so bad!! Now, Kevin is slowly turning to shorthairs, but he'll give you the straight scoop.

sjohnny · Post by **sjohnny** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:43 pm

Were the choice between GSP or Weim I'd personally go with the Weim. They're almost as pretty as Vs

Logic never plays much part in my dog decisions.

John

sjohnny · Post by **sjohnny** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:45 pm

Looking at some of these pictures and videos has actually changed my mind a little bit on Weims. All of the ones I've ever met have been complete schizos (like Beatrice in the movie "Best in Show"). I'm very impressed with the ones I've seen in this thread. Beautiful dogs and good hunters as well, who could ask for more (if they only came in red

).

John

Oscar · Post by **Oscar** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:26 pm

Thanks

zzweims · Post by **zzweims** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:28 am

TrueBlu Shorthairs wrote:Aline, I think I'm in love. You seem to be the most realistic Weim person I have ever seen!!!

Maybe that's because I got my start in gsps

And it's kind of hard to 'sneak' on a public forum

It's too bad that Kevin is going to shorthairs

But I can't blame him. A lot of weim folks give up in frustration and move to the darkside--and its usually the ones with the best weims. But you get tired of being treated like an unwanted stepchild, especially by our own parent club :roll:

BTW, 'ol Rev got lucky and recently met up with a nice weim bitch in NH named Sasha, who just happens to have NFC and NAFC in front of her name. They actually bred her to two studs at once (the other is an FC named Tyler). Should be some nice pups.

Aline
http://sitekreator.com/zzfarms

ohiohuntinweim · Post by **ohiohuntinweim** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:38 am

I can't advise on GSp or Weim...I've only had one birddog and it just happens to be a weim. But I will say my petstore weim has turned out to be a good hunting companion dispite all of my shortcomings as a trainer. She hunts and she is a wonderful house/lap dog too (much to my wifes dismay).

Look at their personalities closely. Weims are definitly people oriented mine has got to be around her people when we are close at hand. Not everybody likes that, personally I love it.

CherrystoneWeims · Post by **CherrystoneWeims** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:16 pm

Sasha should produce some very nice pups!

I know what you mean, Aline, about our parent club. LOL I have it bad also because I am somewhere in between the show people and the field people. Neither here nor there so I'm kind of the outcast from both parties.

I look at the show dogs and think to myself "no way could most of those dogs last in the field". Heck our National Specialty winner couldn't even last 20 min I bet! I also look at most of the field dogs and the conformation (or lack of it) really bothers me.

So I just go on and do my own thing.

BTW Aline's Chevy and his offspring are good looking dogs. I would love to use him someday but all of my bitches are small (at the bottom of the standard)

Oscar, your Ringo was a GORGEOUS dog!! Too bad he isn't still around. He looks like he was my kind of dog!

Oscar · Post by **Oscar** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:39 pm

Thanks

ymepointer · Post by **ymepointer** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:18 pm

I would not decide yet but would look at pups from both GSP and WEIM litters, no need to exclude either yet

Oscar, There is a guy on the dogs for sale forum asking about Sir Lancelot dogs. I answered him but I think you could tell him about your dog too. He is looking for advice. I used to have a real nice weim too Oscar.

Oscar · Post by **Oscar** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:11 pm

ymepointer same me( I like that

) . many times ago and for 16 years I haved weimarener - you can see the picturers my weimaraner in this post-

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