NAVHDA test question

[birddogger]

Is it possible for a puppy to pass the NA test without doing well with the swimming part? I will be testing my 6mo. old GSP next month and I have not been able to get him to swim voluntarily. He seems to love the water, but will not venture far enough out to swim. I can throw a bumper out and he will go in the water after it, but turns around a comes back if it is farther out than he likes. I believe he will do well on everything else. Any replies and/or advise would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Charlie

[tmoneysju]

here it is right from the navhda test explanation...

have you tried getting in the water with the dog? bringing one of his favorite toys with you to entice him?

keep in mind he's only 6 months and you can test as many times up until 16 months...I think that's the cutoff



Water Phase
A truly versatile hunting dog must possess the desire
and confidence to swim. The water test should take
place at a spot offering easy, gradual access to deep
water. The handler will be provided a selection of
training dummies. The handler will be instructed to
throw a dummy into water of sufficient depth for the
dog to swim. The dog is expected to make a forward
moving entry into the water and swim twice. For a complete and fair evaluation, the Judges
may ask for the dog to be sent into the water more than twice.
The dog’s swimming speed and style are of little importance. A dog that leaps into the water
will not be scored any higher than the dog that enters without hesitation in a more deliberate

[PrairieGoat]

I'm pretty sure the pup has to swim to get the minimum (Prize III). Take a look at this thread from awhile back....may help...

http://www.gundogforum.com/forum/viewto ... 69&t=13879


Randy

[AHGSP]

Toss the bumper just barely out of his reach to where he has to just take that stroke or 2 to get the bumper and as he becomes more confident, toss it just a wee bit further every time. Will usually work for most that have a high desire to retrieve. Swimming with him will also encourage him to come out in the water. A bird can be used to entice him out, but if used in the test, will drop his score. Whatever you do, DON'T FORCE HIM or TOSS HIM into the water!

[snips]

Toss some pieces of weinnees in the water a little at a time. What the heck, worth a try

[AHGSP]

Toss some pieces of weinnees in the water a little at a time. What the heck, worth a try

You're bad! Just don't suggest "baiting" the bumpers...

[WiskeyJaR]

for the NA test, the pup has to swim, twice. Doesnt have to retrive, just swim. Dutchess decided she didnt need a bath and refused to even enter water...so failed test She does the same thing as your pup and she is 16 months, she will run in the shallows all day, even lay down in the shallow water. Just wont go deep enough to actually swim She swam one day after a stinking "flip/flop" but have yet to get her to swim again .

Like AHGSP said...dont force the pup, keep it fun. Good luck on your test.

[crackerd]

Your pup should be fine. The NA test has some goofy logic behind it, not to mention that "natural ability" implies a pup oughtn't be trained at all before entering, and some new owners took (take) that literally. If the dog won't go in the water for a bumper, then a bird is substituted and thrown to see if it will entice them to swim. The idea behind it is, the dog should swim, but doesn't have to retrieve--which should be part of any natural ability or working test. Especially for dogs that can be as old as 16 mos. Years ago, one of my dogs had a season of duck hunting under her before she was NA-tested. The judge tossed a bumper, she was about as indifferent to it as you might be to a TV test pattern. Then the judge dunked a quail, and a tidal wave almost resulted. But you mandatorily get scored down (I believe it's an automatic "2") if a bird's used--you're not scored at all for a retrieve nor do you get style points for water entry ...)

MG

[Ruffshooter]

If the dog does not swim it will not pass. Put a live quail in the water. They will swim for a few minutes or go sit on the other side of a stream. Spend time near water. Do the Hot dog thing. You go out into the water with a hot dog in your hand. stand in the water, feed the hot dog while you are holding him, then gently set him in the water. Your dog just does not know it knows how to swim or sees no reason to. So give him a reason. A month is a lot of time to introduce your pup to everything.

Good luck.

[Reech]

It may be helpful to have another dog there that swims and retrieves bumpers. If the non-swimming dog sees the swimming dog getting all the bumpers competition amoung the dogs maybe enough to get the non-swimming dog into the water to retrieve a bumper for you. That is the way I got my dog to start swimming. Be patient it will come. I got my dog swimming on her own with only 3 weeks left before a NA test.

Reech

[chicago0517]

Toss a duck or pigeon with its primary flight feathers pulled into the water. Let your dog watch you do this. The duck moreso obviously, but the pigeon to for a bit, will swim and flap and try and get away from your dog. This will usually bring the dog's prey drive out and that will overpower any hesitation around the idea of swimming.

don't toss the bird too far. just a couple of feet into swimming depth so even if the pigeon or duck decides not to move your dog still had to swim to get it. Then throw it a bit further and be done. Do that just a couple of times then move to a bumper. If you only do live birds your dog may not want to swim for a bumper on test day.

Good luck.

[birddogger]

Thanks for the advise everybody. Most of it I have already tried except for the hot dog and live bird thing. I will give it a try. I am glad to hear that I am not alone and the encouraging words have given me hope. Not much time left though.
Thanks again,
Charlie

[birddogger]

Also the puppy life jacket may sound funny, but it sounds like a darned good idea to me. I may have to give that a try.

[r.r.rouse]

I had a pup that I ended up having to wade out into his swimming depth water with a nap sack of bumpers. He waded out until he had to swimm to be with me. I would throw one bumper a little ways away from me and praised him up when he went away from me swimming to get the bumper. Don't say anything to the pup until coming back to you. And once they leave you to go get them bumper do not say a word to them. I worked my way back to shore throwing the bumper further away into swimming depth water and pretty soon he forgot to worry about me and getting his feet off the bottom. He is now going without any hesitation at all. Try to work your pup threw the same bottom type and structure area as where you will be testing if not sure introduce pup to several different types of water areas. Good luck and keep it fun.

P.S. you might try running him in the field to get him hot and then taking him to the water for water exposure.

[PrairieGoat]

Also the puppy life jacket may sound funny, but it sounds like a darned good idea to me. I may have to give that a try.

It was pretty much the last straw for me.....I had tried everything everyone had already listed here, but my pup just wasn't convinced he could swim. I knew if I didn't get him swimming, I didn't stand a chance in the NA even though I knew he could nail the search and was fairly certain he could handle the tracking. I tried getting him out with another dog that would swim and retrieve....mine would just wait in the shallows and take the bumper away. I tried going out swimming myself, he would stand in the shallows and whine. I tried dead birds (didn't try a live one though). I had him around water constantly, but no dice. The life vest trick worked within 15 minutes the first time!!! Even though I bought what turned out to be one of the most expensive vests....it paled in comparison to the time/diesel I had spent whilst trying other methods for several months. My pup jumped right into the water at the NA and made a long retrieve (judge said I threw it too far!) and one a bit shorter. He now loves to swim...typically take him about once a week or so and he can't get enough of it.

Good luck!

Randy

[birddogger]

Thanks Prairie Goat, my pup is doing exactly the way you are describing yours, with all the things you and I tried. I think I will give it a shot.










Charlie

[PrairieGoat]

Charlie,

Just make sure it has a handle on the back (most probably do)....that was the key, being able to help support him in the water until he realized he could do it on his own. I started out with him just at his limit in the water then lifted/supported as I gave him a gentle push into the deeper water. First couple of times he would make an immediate U-turn and head back into shallow water. Each time he would go a little further under his own swimming power, until about the third or fourth time he swam out the 15' or so and brought back the bumper. After that it was like he'd been doing it all his life! Make sure you heap on the praise for each little incremental accomplishment......this seems to work for everything....I just taught mine to get in and stay in a layout blind that I would have sworn was about three times too little for him by using tiny steps over a couple of days and lots of atta-boys!

By the way, seems like I've seen some fairly inexpensive dog life vests in some of the chain petstores for around $30 (about 1/2 what I paid for mine!) that would probably work.

Randy

[PrairieGoat]

Charlie,

Just to whet your appetite (poor pun intended!), here are the results of my life vest efforts....

Here's my 4 month old (no life vest trick needed, thinks he's a lab) and my 1 year old swimming...

IMGP0692_A.jpg

Here's a team effort...

P9070188_A.jpg

And a lazy "swim by"...

P9070184_A.JPG

These guys love to swim (and retrieve)...

Randy

[wems2371]

I love the "team effort" photo and the casual "look at me, I'm leaving with your bumper" shot. That's great. Denise

[mtclip]

I took the na test at seven months. Daisy had swam before with older dogs but would not go on command for the bumper. The week of the test I was desperate. I zipped tied liver treats to the bumper and threw them for her and she went. I then put treats on every other one and then reduced it to none. I had her swimming at the toss of the bumper by test day.

[PrairieGoat]

I love the "team effort" photo and the casual "look at me, I'm leaving with your bumper" shot. That's great. Denise

They do love their bumpers....and favorite swimming holes! Watching them now you'd think they had both spent all their lives swimming; like it was no big deal. The little one has and is now nothing short of a little motorboat, but the older one (blk/wht) really had me worried for awhile! He seemed to think if dogs were meant to swim they'd have been born with flippers!

Randy

[birddogger]

Cool pictures Randy. I bought the life jacket but have not made it to the lake yet. I will be working on it in the next few days. I will let you know how it works out.






Charlie

[birddogger]

The life jacket worked like a charm. I took him to the lake today, let him run for awhile and put the life jacket on him. I threw the bumper out and he refused to go after it. I put him in the water and pushed him toward the bumper. He swam out, grabbed the bumper, I praised him and gave him a treat. Second time, same thing, he resisted and I pushed him. He went out and brought the bumper back. Again praise and a treat. That is all it took. I did it three more times with the life jacket and he did not hesitate. He swam out and brought the bumper back. I took the life jacket off and threw the bumper out. He jumped in the lake, swam like a champ and brought the bumper back. I did it twice without the life jacket and he swam without hesitation. I then called it a day and took him home. I am thrilled!!!!!! Thank for the advise Randy and to everyone who replied!




Charlie

[PrairieGoat]

Charlie I'm glad to hear it worked for you!

I think someone famous once said "Desperate times call for desperate measures"!!! I don't recall when your NA test was, but you will definitely want to get him out there a few more times as soon as possible to reinforce his confidence. I think I was hitting the lake about every weekend leading up the test just to ensure that mine didn't lose any confidence.

Randy