You have got to be kidding me

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gar-dog
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You have got to be kidding me

Post by gar-dog » Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:30 pm

Most of you probably know what I am talking about.

Have a good day,
Gary

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by wems2371 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:41 pm

Just logged on did ya? :wink: Denise

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by Elkhunter » Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:52 pm

Did I miss something?

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by topher40 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:55 pm

Not only you Elkhunter, I have know I idea..... :roll:
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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by wems2371 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:56 pm

think Gar-Dog is implying the lockdown on the fairly benign NSTRA thread......... Denise

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by Razor » Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:18 pm

agreed, don't see how that was out of hand.

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by Elroy's Bandit » Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:10 pm

I thought some of the posts were quite thought provoking and very interesting. Why would it be "locked down" Seems a little heavy handed. If the posters want to go on & on....let them have their say. JMO
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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by RayGubernat » Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:02 pm

Probably an acute case of Deja Vu...

You know...

Been there, saw that...WILL NOT allow that again.

Greg said as much, and did issue an explicit warning at the outset to keep it factual, cordial and congenial.

RayG

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by snips » Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:49 pm

I thought it was.......................
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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by scott townsend » Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:49 pm

From the beginning of the thread Greg stated to keep it factual. There was only one poster that could not stick to the facts. He was warned about it, but continued to try to defend his opinions based on training 300 hundred dogs and on what his buddy says.LOL. I don't know and can't remember if I have trained three hundred yet or not, but after about fifty I learned to never say never on any dog.
NSTRA,AF AKC,Hunt tests whatever, they are what they are. They are not for eveyone, run the one or ones that suits you or your hunting style or don't run any at all.
What I find annoying is the person that doesn't participate in the venue that wants to sit back and bad mouth it based on nothing but opinion theirs or someone elses.Its kinda like being kennel blind.If its not out of my kennel its no good. If I don.t particpate in it,its not a trial.LOL Get real.
NSTRA is a very competitive game.Some enjoy that, some don't. There is a lot more to it then meets the eye. It is hard to understand what goes into all the things that go on out there. The only way to truely get the full experience is to go out and run it several times.You will learn something each time you go out there.

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by Razor » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:30 pm

Fact- If NSTRA wants legitimacy they should require dogs to be broke. This would end all the hogwash.

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by DGFavor » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:54 pm

Fact- If NSTRA wants legitimacy they should require dogs to be broke. This would end all the hogwash.
Personally I could care less if the dogs are required to be broke but I certainly question the significance to birdogdom of a format/system where part of the training involves teaching the dogs to track 4 wheelers, where the handler actively looks for birds and manufactures a point out of the dog when he/she finds one, and where dogs are encouraged to run down and kill birds on their own.

Before you think I'm NSTRA bashing, let me say I question the significance of many of the trial venues in terms of their contribution/significance to the assessment and development of better bird dogs, this includes wild bird trials as I've seen stinker performances be rewarded in those venues as well.

For me it all boils down to seeing it with my own eyes, no matter the venue, and making my own determination as to the value or significance of what I've seen.

How come the big lockdown on voicing opinions??

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by gar-dog » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:19 am

DGFavor wrote: How come the big lockdown on voicing opinions??
Indeed. Opinions are mostly what I am here for. If I want some factual stuff there are plenty of places for that info only one google away. Otherwise GDF becomes only a place to post puppy pics.

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by Ricky Ticky Shorthairs » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:22 am

gar-dog wrote:
DGFavor wrote: How come the big lockdown on voicing opinions??
Indeed. Opinions are mostly what I am here for. If I want some factual stuff there are plenty of places for that info only one google away. Otherwise GDF becomes only a place to post puppy pics.
I would say that that there needs to be some kind of consistancy in the moderating. It almost seems that when one of them gets their feelings hurt or they don't like what someone is saying, they take their marbles and go home. Sometimes it's kind of childish. JMO

There are lots of good people on here that are getting fed up with it. I thought opinions were OK, but sometimes it seems to be whatever the flavor of the day is. (That's a metaphor, for those of you that don't get it)

Come on Mods, we are all adults, so treat us as such!! You're losing good people because you are NOT concistant in your actions.

I know, I know, if you don't like it go somewhere else. Yada, yada, yada.

Doug

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by Greg Jennings » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:35 am

Well, Doug, Gary, drop Grant a line and volunteer your services as moderators. I'm trying to do this and run one of the 10 largest data warehouses on the planet. Time gets short.

And, while we're at it, here is exactly how adult some folks can be...

To: <mailto:grant@gundogforum.com> grant@gundogforum.com
Subject: Re: New private message has arrived
Reply-To: <mailto: *******@yahoo.com> *****@yahoo.com



Youre a F*ckin Nazi & a Piece of "bleep"

Rot in heck

Enjoy the depression too, ****sucker

Stalin is proud of you, little moderator boy

Greg J.

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by wems2371 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:56 am

The NSTRA lockup did surprise me, but in a time lately of wicked tongues............are you really surprised if there might be a case of over moderation? We have after all been allowed to voice our opinions on the matter, and I'm sure it has been given consideration. Moderators are not demi-gods, but simply folks like you and me. I'm good for opinions too, but sometimes it's repetitive mean-spirited silliness..............and if two people are going to argue back and forth and call each other liars, as has happened in previous threads--than of what use is that to anyone. They may as well do it over the phone, and leave me out of it. Personally, I think the NSTRA thread should be reopened, as most posters were very congenial.........and those who weren't only make themselves look bad.
Come on Mods, we are all adults, so treat us as such!! You're losing good people because you are NOT concistant in your actions.
they take their marbles and go home. Sometimes it's kind of childish.
I can put those two quotes together regarding members as well. It's just a forum after all, it's not like I have to see everyone's mug everyday. I think it's too bad that someone that has been a good mentor via posts, would leave so easily. To me, the moderation, is just a worm in the apple, but the apple's still 99% good.
Winners never quit, and quitters never win.
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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by ACooper » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:57 am

Though I agree with much of what is being said as far as too strict etc on the NSTRA post. I think the reason most of us like this board is that it is not allowed to sink to depths that some are. You take the good with the bad.

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by gar-dog » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:05 am

That's certainly not pleasant and not at all deserved!

No one is saying we don't want moderators. Abusive and insulting folks should be dealt with and nipped in the bud. But there is nothing wrong with a little debate. When people are challenged, that is when some of the best info comes out.

I don't think having more moderators addresses the problem of moderators locking threads, but if Grant feels he needs more, I am happy to oblige. (God knows I spend enough time on here and SGW.) But that's not what this is about - it's about people feeling they cannot speak their mind and having to walk on eggshells. I think that's all.

A forum is a place to listen and be heard.

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by wems2371 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:11 am

For anyone sending insults to the moderators--YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES!
When people are challenged, that is when some of the best info comes out.
IMO careful here though, this also seems to be when people cast out some pretty tall tales. My boots are only so tall! :lol: Denise

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by gar-dog » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:23 am

Basically I consider myself a "nobody" on this forum. I am a newbie trainer, and have yet to hunt over my dog or trial her (give me a month). Before coming to this site I wouldn't have been able to tell a GSP from an EP. I am a bit reluctant to be a pain in the _ss here as I have been yesterday and today. But I have an issue with the censorship of opinions and that is what I brought up. It doesn't mean I think a forum shouldn't be moderated. And at the end of the day, I don't really care what anyone here thinks of me or my dog. I value input and information and then form my own opinion on what I think is best for me.

For instance, brittanys are smaller and cuter than a lot of the sporting breeds - they don't look as "macho" and masculine as some of the big mottled ticked-up GSPs. After awhile you pick up on some of this bias(like the guy who would cut his hand off before he'd own a Brittany or whatever). The point I am making is I don't care and I am not going to get my feelings hurt. Let people speak their mind.

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by Greg Jennings » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:29 am

wems2371 wrote:For anyone sending insults to the moderators--YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES!
Oh, it's gone much further than insults. I have more than once been threatened with lawsuits and physical assault. The latest was a physical threat to both my own person *and my dogs*. Since the "to my dogs" part threatened to burn down my "kennels" and since the dogs live in the house, I have to worry about the safety of my family.

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by kninebirddog » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:51 am

wow that isn't right

I have had people get upset but ....threatening physical harm.... :cry: you know bad enough to threaten a human but for someone to actually be able to threaten someones animals....that is truely sad a person who could do that ...there are no words that I can say that would remotely come close to the low class it would take to think it much less follow through

that is some serious hate right there....how sad to live with that much hatred
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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by big steve46 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:56 am

Greg, I haven't been following these threads much that you are referring to, but I find it incredible that someone would actually threaten you! WOW! Not trying to sound macho, but I would probably give them directions to my house. Of course, I don't have kids at home, and my dogs stay outside. Oh well, there are idiots everywhere! 8)
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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by bobman » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:14 pm

Greg Jennings wrote:
wems2371 wrote:For anyone sending insults to the moderators--YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES!
Oh, it's gone much further than insults. I have more than once been threatened with lawsuits and physical assault. The latest was a physical threat to both my own person *and my dogs*. Since the "to my dogs" part threatened to burn down my "kennels" and since the dogs live in the house, I have to worry about the safety of my family.

Don't worry anyone that stupid is probably too stupid to find your house.

Geesh what is wrong with people, you ever notice how people on internet boards are like people in traffic they do and say stuff they would never do if they were standing in front of you
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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by romeo212000 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:28 pm

Greg Jennings wrote:
wems2371 wrote:For anyone sending insults to the moderators--YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES!
Oh, it's gone much further than insults. I have more than once been threatened with lawsuits and physical assault. The latest was a physical threat to both my own person *and my dogs*. Since the "to my dogs" part threatened to burn down my "kennels" and since the dogs live in the house, I have to worry about the safety of my family.
It's sad to find people we thought were an asset to our cause and passion turn out to be a contributing factor to the downfall of it. Whomever has mad physical and verbal threats is not an asset to the Gun Dog, hunting, or firearms community and I would just assume the disassociate themselves from the rest of us. Those people do not represent me.

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by lvrgsp » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:39 pm

I just wanted to comment on this and say I never attacked any one or any moderators, I may have disagreed with some things, but we all do that. My apologies to those moderators who have been personally attacked, not to sure my Irish temeperment could stand for that. Just to clear the air further, none of the mods asked me to stop posting or to leave it was all my decision. Remember folks pm's hide alot. So yes I guess I'm a quitter. I hope ya'll have a good hunting season.

LVRGSP...... 8)

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by romeo212000 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:41 pm

DGFavor wrote:
Fact- If NSTRA wants legitimacy they should require dogs to be broke. This would end all the hogwash.
Personally I could care less if the dogs are required to be broke but I certainly question the significance to birdogdom of a format/system where part of the training involves teaching the dogs to track 4 wheelers, where the handler actively looks for birds and manufactures a point out of the dog when he/she finds one, and where dogs are encouraged to run down and kill birds on their own.

Before you think I'm NSTRA bashing, let me say I question the significance of many of the trial venues in terms of their contribution/significance to the assessment and development of better bird dogs, this includes wild bird trials as I've seen stinker performances be rewarded in those venues as well.

For me it all boils down to seeing it with my own eyes, no matter the venue, and making my own determination as to the value or significance of what I've seen.

How come the big lockdown on voicing opinions??
As for tracking four wheelers. That really only works or helps if you are the first brace of the day. Otherwise the four wheeler has been all over those fields and a dog could track all day long and never find a bird. Also, as for retrieving. NSTRA only requires a dog to be steady to flush. Others require steady to wing and shot. But some of those require no retrieving. I think retrieving is a quality aspect that should be tested, but some don't test it. That is a flaw I see with certain format, but is only what I like to see and feel is important. People wonder why EP's that come out of big running trial dogs have a hard time with their retrieving when those lines were not bred for retrieving. Not all EP's, just some, trust me I have seen dogs that were trialed in venues that did not require retrieving and therefore the retrive was not a bred for quality, and it lacked big time. I have also seen a lot of EP's that were killer retrievers. As for NSTRA encouraging chasing down birds and killing them on their own, you couldnt be more off base. If a shooter misses a shot and the dog is sent on the retrieve and is able to catch a wounded bird or even one that was missed, that in my opinion is a testament to their ability and desire to retrieve. They are not encouraged to kill the bird. Often times in this scenario the bird is brought back still alive and flapping while in the dogs mouth. A dog would get knocked big time if they stopped to kill the bird or munched it on the way back on the retrieve.

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by big steve46 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:52 pm

lvr, I don't know what the problem is, but I wish you would stay. I enjoy your posts and opinions on things. Best regards, :roll: :D
big steve

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by Ditch__Parrot » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:12 pm

Hello and yes i'm fairly new here. This thread has sure gotten alot of attention in a few short hours. Everbody seems all worked up. I'm sorry to here about the threats to the moderaters. It's amazing how big of balls people get when hiding behind a computer. I read the start of the NSTRA thread along with many other threads. I found it interesting. I was interested in the differences of the NSTRA compared to other trials as was the original poster. To bad it must have declined to mud slinging.
On this thread I read the quote
Razor wrote:Fact- If NSTRA wants legitimacy they should require dogs to be broke. This would end all the hogwash.
I will tell you as an average Joe foot hunter all the trials have a way to go towards regaining legitimacy. It is a common topic on most of the hunting trips with various groups that i've been on. It is always a question in peoples minds rather a dog that is bred for a specific game(trial) is going to be worth a hoot in the real field. All of the bickering over a benign question of what are the differences between NSTRA and other trials will not help anybody untill you can discuss improvements in a constructive fashion.

So why don't you take some of that excess energy and put it into typing out some recipes for the recipe thread I started.(I still have birds in my freezer from Jan. my wife says I can't go hunting again untill they're gone and I'm gettting tired of the same dishes)
Image

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by gar-dog » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:19 pm

Sadie__Marie wrote: So why don't you take some of that excess energy and put it into typing out some recipes for the recipe thread I started.(I still have birds in my freezer from Jan. my wife says I can't go hunting again untill they're gone and I'm gettting tired of the same dishes)
Ah, our common love of food shall bring peace to GDF :)

or

Pheasant tastes like crud. A real hunter will cook grouse!

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by big steve46 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:08 pm

What's a grouse"? Is that kinda like a mud hen? :lol:
big steve

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by wems2371 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:16 pm

So yes I guess I'm a quitter. I hope ya'll have a good hunting season.
You're a quitter lurking in the shadows still--so I have hope yet that you'll forgive whomever and find your way back to the GDF family fold. 8)

I'm not much of a cook, but a can of cream of mushroom soup and a crockpot fixes just about anything wild. Oh, sorry. Guess that wasn't very creative. :lol: :lol: :lol: Denise

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by Trekmoor » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:21 pm

Greg I can hardly believe anyone would send such an E Mail :o :? :x

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:07 pm

We all have recieved some real good ones and some that just try to insult us. Guess it is part of the job that comes with the turf. Most have no idea of what goes on and sound really foolish if they only knew.

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by romeo212000 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:24 pm

I wouldnt mind helping out however I can whether that be as a moderator or whatever. If I have gained enough cred around here to manage that then I would be happy to help.

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by Rick Hall » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:50 pm

Greg Jennings wrote:Well, Doug, Gary, drop Grant a line and volunteer your services as moderators. I'm trying to do this and run one of the 10 largest data warehouses on the planet. Time gets short.

And, while we're at it, here is exactly how adult some folks can be...

To: <mailto:grant@gundogforum.com> grant@gundogforum.com
Subject: Re: New private message has arrived
Reply-To: <mailto: *******@yahoo.com> *****@yahoo.com



Youre a F*ckin Nazi & a Piece of "bleep"

Rot in heck

Enjoy the depression too, ****sucker

Stalin is proud of you, little moderator boy

Greg J.
I didn't follow the thread in question and was only casually browsing this one when the above spurred me to see who was being so offensive on the NSTRA thread - and was surprised to see it was apparently Neil's comments that caused the stir. Neil and I have disagreed on a number of things over the years, but he's always been a gentleman about it who I've never seen utter anything remotely deserving of comparison to the above, publicly or by PM.

If someone of Neil's experience leaves this online community, it will be the board's loss.
If you think I'm wrong, you might be right.

(And to see just how confused I really am, join us in my online blind at: Rick's 2009-2010 season log)

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by slistoe » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:58 pm

Rick Hall wrote:
If someone of Neil's experience leaves this online community, it will be the board's loss.
I will most certainly second that sentiment.

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by romeo212000 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:00 pm

I don not know if that was Neil's pm and assume it probably was not. That does not look like something he would do. But whoever sent that in a pm to a moderator is not an asset to this board.

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by Rick Hall » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:16 pm

romeo212000 wrote:I don not know if that was Neil's pm and assume it probably was not. That does not look like something he would do. But whoever sent that in a pm to a moderator is not an asset to this board.
Was not my intent to imply any claim or inference on Greg's part that the PM was Neil's. My reading was that it was offered as example of how out of hand some folks get, and my point was that such an extreme example offered no real context for the decision to shut the thread in question down.

That said, it is Greg's board to administer as he sees fit.
If you think I'm wrong, you might be right.

(And to see just how confused I really am, join us in my online blind at: Rick's 2009-2010 season log)

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by slistoe » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:34 pm

Excellently stated Rick. Especially the part about the quote giving no credence to the decision to lock a thread - therefore it's posting was pointless and perhaps injurious.

Neil Mace

Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by Neil Mace » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:59 pm

Thanks Rick.

Wasn't me that sent insulting PM's.

And I am cool with the locking of any thread when they think I am out of line, whoever "they" are.

Really didn't mean to say anythinig in anyway negative about NSTRA.

You all just need to know I hold all dog events in high regard, I got excited watching the "Great American Dog", think the dock jumping and fly ball are neat. I could watch the herding dogs and agility events for days. I love retriever and spaniel trials. And while I logged well over a 100 days in the saddle at field trials, I had time for 3 dog shows. But what I really enjoy are the 4 week old pups in the whelping box and the old dog at my feet.

So I am very sorry if I was thought anti-shoot to retrieve, just ain't so, I will be more careful,

Neil

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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by wems2371 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:12 pm

You all just need to know I hold all dog events in high regard, I got excited watching the "Great American Dog", think the dock jumping and fly ball are neat. I could watch the herding dogs and agility events for days. I love retriever and spaniel trials. And while I logged well over a 100 days in the saddle at field trials, I had time for 3 dog shows. But what I really enjoy are the 4 week old pups in the whelping box and the old dog at my feet.
I like you already. :lol: I think the moderators might be a little stressed out lately :? , but I hope you're not so careful Neil that we don't hear your opinion at all. From another dog lover. Denise

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Greg Jennings
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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by Greg Jennings » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:23 am

Wasn't Neal, wasn't anyone that is with us any more.

My only reason for imposing stricter-than-normal rules on the NSTRA thread is that, over the years, it has been a lightening rod that ended up causing problems.

Want to be clear that I normally have no problems with opinions. Just wanted to keep things calm(er) on this particular topic. It's one that people hold religious-type issues on.

Greg

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mit
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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by mit » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:57 am

ouch

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mit
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Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by mit » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:59 am

oops, sorry posted in the wrong spot!

wchua24

Re: You have got to be kidding me

Post by wchua24 » Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:42 am

i got the wrong thought ...

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