GSP vs. English

[nanney1]

GSP vs. English Pointer
Just curious about the differences between these two breeds. Growing up we had a stray that was either a Dalmation/Pointer mix or possibly full English Pointer. Hard to tell as she was spotted like a Dal but had a solid patch over one eye. We lived in a rural area and she had access to fields to run in. She would run anround, get birdy and point. Who knows... Anyway, she was a great dog as a pet even though I never hunted.

What are the main differences between these two breeds as far as:

1. pets
2. hunting dogs
3. trial dogs

[drkg]

.....this is likely to get ugly.

It is a valid question for someone beginning the breed selection process. Hopefully everyone can remeber that not ALL opinions have to be :evil:STRONG ones.


Nanny,

From the research I did when I was first selecing a breed: while both breeds have similar capabilities and potentials, the EP is likely to have more style, performance and "polish" for the hardcore trialer, or big range hunter. The GSP will hold its own in the uplands....and the duckblind...and the woods...and anywhere else you want to hunt with a dog on the team.
Regarding the housepet aspect- I know others will disagree- but I think most any dog has the same potential in that department, it's just a matter of what the ower is willing to put into it.

[bobman]

I have 6 GSP's and 3 EP's the only difference I can see is GSP's are better cold weather dogs and EP's handle heat better mine are all living in the house and all are good pets.

EP's tails can be dangerous when they are wagging next to your cup of joe

[romeo212000]

EP's are typically smaller dogs than GSP's, and in my experience GSP's are slightly more versitile. Of course there is an exception to every rule but you will see far more GSP's in different venues than EP's, such as a duck blind or the grouse woods. Now Ep's do what they were bred to do and do it very well, and that is run in open plains and cover ground.

I dont know if I would say EP's have more style necessarily but that their physical conformation makes it that way. Ep's have a long tail that look so stylish when carried high and on point, among other things, but a stylish EP on point is one of the prettiest things there is. They also seem to have been bred more as a whole to gain a dog that can run faster, harder, and farther. now I have seen many GSP's that can run with the EP's but for the most part a GSP is usually a mid range running dog, and you wont often see them making 1/4 mile or 1/2 mile casts, though they will get a few hundred yards out which is perfect for both the format I compete in (NSTRA) and for my foot hunting. Once again there is an exception to every rule but GSP's seem to be a little easier for the less experienced trainer to handle and train. EP's are great dogs with tons of drive and energy, but many times are also full of piss and vinegar, and it can be difficult for a less experienced handler and trainer to focus and harness that energy.

GSP's also tend to be better trackers as well as they are in fact a versitle breed that were and sometimes still are used to hunt fur and feather. I have seen some that won't put there nose to the ground for anything and some EP's that can track with the best of them but this seems to be the exception rather than the rule. GSP's in my experience seem to be more willing to retrieve than EP's as well. Many breeders do not even breed for retrieving with the EP's and I think this is starting to show some. Again I have seen some great ones, and most any dog and be Force Fetched but the GSP's seem to like it more in my experience.

[RayGubernat]

As far as the pet thing is concerned there is waaaay more variation between individuals within each breed than theire is between the breeds. I think both would make wonderful, loving pets, if somwwhat active.
And yes that long tail can be painful when you catch it up side the head.

As far as hunting dogs are concerned my considered opinion of the difference between breeds is:

NOT MUCH.

A well bred dog of either breed will do the job for the hunter in the uplands just fine. If you do waterfowl n ponds ans streams and such, a shorthair might be a better choice, because it has been bred to do water work and has the coat and feet for it while the pointer has not. If your upland hunting features large expanses of open ground, the pointer might be a better choice, but again, there are tremendous variations within each breed.

As far as trialing is concerned, there are venues for GSP's and continentls and venues for pointers and setters.

If you wish to compete in NSTRA, it makes no difference which breed. The four breeds place pretty much in the same percentages in which they enter in NSTRA, at least they did when I compiled and analyzed the NSTRA placements for two consecutive years.

RayG

[romeo212000]

Ray pretty much hit it on the head.

[mudhunter]

A major difference between the two as far as the average hunter is concerned is range! You can find GSP that are bred to hunt within 50 yards and others bred to run huge! I have not seen any one breeding EPs to hunt close. Not a cut on either breed, they are both bird machines, but you will have a much easier time finding GSPs that are breed to hunt close if your interested in that.

[remmy]

GSP's have a shorter tail...that's it! JK.

A GSP is a more versatile dog as stated above. It depends on what part of the country you live in and what you plan on using the dog for?

Both dogs can be a house pet...it all depends on the owner and obedience training. Both dogs are excellent hunters and both run in mostly different venues of field trials. Each and every dog will vary based on its breeding. I have a GSP that is smaller than a lot of my pros pointers.

now I have seen many GSP's that can run with the EP's but for the most part a GSP is usually a mid range running dog, and you wont often see them making 1/4 mile or 1/2 mile casts, though they will get a few hundred yards out

AA GSPs do range that far. As I stated above it all depends on the breeding. However, there are more big running pointers out there than GSPs. Also, the terrain has a lot to do with it.

There is more money that can be made in a pointer trial than a GSP trial.

The bottom line is it all depends on the breeding of each dog. There are pointers that run close range and GSPs that run big and GSPs that run close range and pointers that run big. Each breeder has a different goal than the next. You choose the right breeder than you choose the right dog.

[Greg Jennings]

Find a breeder/trainer that is close to you and can help you train....

[kbshorthairs]

I think it would be easier for people to give accurate advice if you were to tell us what you intend to do with the dog. I agree that both breeds are capable of being good pets, hunters, and trial dogs. Happiness will be best achieved for you and the dog if you get a pup that has been bred for the purposes that you have in mind. I always hate blanket statements like all pointers are hard headed or all shorthairs run shorter than pointers. These claims are easily disproven.
There is enough experience on this forum that can lead you in the right direction if you ask a specific question. (there will still be quite a variety of opinions, however)

[Yawallac]

because it has been bred to do water work and has the coat and feet for it while the pointer has not.

Pointers don't have the "feet" for water work???

I love these threads.

I own both breeds and I train both breeds. Decide which breed you like the "looks" of better and then get one. ....or you could just flip a coin.

[topher40]

Ross put it MUCH better than I could have EVER done! I was hoping he would comment here because I started to last night and had to quit because it was to mean and condescending! Preconceived notions don't carry any water, unfortunately EVERYONE has them, especially about pointers and their range, lack of water capabilities, etc.

[Greg Jennings]

Whatever breed, I'd take into consideration a breeder close by that could help with training, resources, etc. A great dog is one thing. A great dog that is brought along right is a better thing.

[Duke82]

As stated above every dog is his own between the two breeds. As far as running big or close, keep in mind you can train a dog to hunt closer but very hard to do vice versa. As far as the feet and coat on a EP not being breed for water I would disagree. My EP swims fine and my buddies GSP's won't touch water and as far as their coats I can feel no difference for swimming or heat purposes. They are both short hair and hide feels the same. As far as retrieving my EP was not natural at it when he was young, but now is obsessed about retrieving. Every time I go in the backyard he grabs the closes thing to him and brings it to me to play fetch. As for being bold headed and having more drive than a GSP I would agree with that. But I also believe that is what gives them such a intense point. Honestly between the two like they said above pick which ever one you like the look of.

[romeo212000]

Looking to make friends early huh?

[muddycreek]

Both breeds have good dogs and bad, as do any other. My main question would be, what are your desires with the dog? In your post you stated your dog was "a great pet even though I never hunted" do you currently hunt, test, trail, etc...? If not I would question the choice of either breed as they are both known as high drive, high energy breeds. THere may be some lines content to be pets in either breed, but I can tell you my two GSP's are not that way and from the Pointers I have seen they are the same. In the case you are going to hunt the dog, my apologies and pick the breed that strikes your fancy. I agree with Greg on finding a breeder somewhat local that will work with you after the sale, not just for the sale.

[romeo212000]

Finding a good somewhat local breeder is the best suggestion I have seen on here. The breeder I first bought from taught me and is still teaching me so much about dogs, hunting and trialing. I owe him a lot and hope to be able to repay him one day. I know I would have had a much harder time without him.

[Yawallac]

Ya its ugly but its the truth don't fool yourself.

Ugly???? Dude!

As far as everyone suggesting to "buy locally" that's probably good advise for a newbie, but I like to buy from specific lines and specific dogs. I have a pup coming in from MT this week and recently bought a dog out of New Brunswick, Canada. I am looking for very specific things.

So, if you know what "type" of GSP or EP you want, you may wish to explore a bit further. There are a lot of very knowledgable GSP and Pointer folks on this board and they could easily direct you to a line that would suit your hunting/trialing/pet needs.

The various lines will most likely be more different than the differences between the two breeds. In other words, you can find close working GSPs and Pointers and you can find wide ranging GSPs and Pointers. You can find natural retrieving, water loving GSPs and Pointers or more specialist upland types from either breed.

My point is, whether local or long distant, good research is the key with either breed.

[BigShooter]

nanney1 has not responded yet ... is this one of those "opened for discussion/controversy" threads or "looking for advice threads"

[Ayres]

You know I've always heard that a GSP is more like a truck, and an EP is more like a sports car. I've found that's basically true, too.



Just remember....







vs.



First impressions can be deceiving.

[nanney1]

nanney1 has not responded yet ... is this one of those "opened for discussion/controversy" threads or "looking for advice threads"

It was more of a just wondering kind of thread....

Basically, I've seen several people keep GSP's as pets. However, I've never seen anyone keep an English Pointer solely as a pet.

So, basically, I just asked the question. I got the answer(s) I was looking for plus a whole lot more. Thanks to everyone who responded.