High COI vrs. Low COI ???

[Fieldmaster]

Been following a topic on another board and though this would be an interesting topic on this board ?

Which do you prefer and Why ?

Robert

[Birdie]

My first thought & reaction to the question: a person is an imbicile if only considering COI % to buy a pup. That not withstanding (since the question probably wasn't meant that way) there are a dozen other factors that, to me, does not make COI anywhere near the top of the list important.

If a breeder is using only COI - to base his breeding from a pedigree, it does not mean they know what they are doing; just that there is a higher probability the product might be more as Carlos Mencia says "dee,dee,dee" than hoped for. If a breeder has done their research and matched a pair and it happens to have a high COI, then so be it.

From a purchaser perspective, COI % in itself means nothing to me in the decision to buy a dog. I have dogs with high and low COI% and the COI % does not make any of them better or worse than the other. In my opinion, it does not necessarily mean their health or ability will be more poor than a dog with low COI % either. My low COI % dogs happen to have/have had much poorer health than my higher COI % dogs.

From a breeder perspective, higher COI % might [should] be indicative that I have found what I want to "set" in my breeding program or that I have a better handle on one or two things I am trying to fix. Hopefully, it is more than just an experimental breeding at that point as well.

[Duane M]

I much prefer ability to anything on paper, seen too many outcrosses that produced outstanding dogs to believe the hype the COI crowd touts. Thats my story and I'm stickin to it.

[Fieldmaster]

Personally I have never ran or worried about COI on any of my dogs or litters. I look first and foremost at the individual dogs in question, what they are producing or have produced and what I know about the dogs behind them in the pedigree. Many are striving for high COI on dogs that they have never put there hands on or know that much about thus depending on ones opinion that may completely differ from yours as a quality birddog.

I stick close to a specific gene pool or type even when outcrossing. I always demand style, intensity , natural ability , trainability , drive and conformation in anything that we breed or look to add to our program. No exceptions they must have everything that I am looking for in a quality birddog or they are not even considered.


Robert

[adogslife]

The idea behind linebreeding is to bring foward undesired traits and eliminate them from a line while producing dogs with strong desireable traits. Outcrossing only hides undesired traits.When seeking to outcross for a trait your line is missing or not strong in it is best to go with a dog that is tightly line bred on both sides (different lines)and then breed back to your line bred line tightly. Line breeding is the only way to produce consistent litters with fewer undesireable traits - if it is done correctly. To many breeders inbreed paper.

[snips]

I agree with Fieldmaster. I look for ability and put it where it best lines up with simular lines of looks and ability. I like to stack great producers as much as 10 generations and see dogs that are heavy in the background pull to the front. I do not look at COI but would think it would be pretty good in our pedigrees.

[luke0927]

hate to be a thread killer can someone give me a simple explanation of COI....? to me just from reading these post sounds like some marketing BS.......

[Greg Jennings]

Coefficient Of Inbreeding.

This has some information: http://fabpedigree.com/wrigco.htm

[FTbritts]

I agree with most of the above...and I do think COI has a very valid merit in a breeders toolbox, but In order for any animal to create positive change in their decendants, that particular animal must posess 3 things- breeding, quality, and individuality. Some may agree or disagree but IMO, In a very real sense the true worth of linebreeding is found in it's results.

[Greg Jennings]

The strategy is pretty simple. Linebreed for consistency in what you have. Outcross to get something that you don't have. Execution. Now, there is the can of worms.

[ezzy333]

The strategy is pretty simple. Linebreed for consistency in what you have. Outcross to get something that you don't have. Execution. Now, there is the can of worms.

This says it all and it doesn't make a bit of difference how you got that perfect dog but we do know there are better ways to try and reproduce it or improve it. The past is past and all we can do is work on the future.

Ezzy

[Dave Quindt]

Two questions............

First, if linebreeding is the way you get consistency, how is it that the HT/FT Lab folks can get consistency within their lines with little if any linebreeding? Same goes for the spaniels.

Second, for those of you running COIs, how do you know these pedigrees are accurate? If you don't know how accurate they are, how do you put any value into the COI calculation?

Just curious,
Dave

[Greg Jennings]

Not qualified to say, there, Dave. My only lab had Canis Major River Bear as grandsire on both top and bottom.

[Dave Quindt]

Not qualified to say, there, Dave. My only lab had Canis Major River Bear as grandsire on both top and bottom.

Accidents do happen

[briarpatch]

the below article was based on birds and discusses linebreeding and outcrossing
it covers a lot of information on the subject and perhaps you'll find it interesting
http://www.nativebirds.co.uk/index.php? ... 5&Itemid=6

this one basically tells you why a COI is important or at least why this guy thinks so..
http://www.dogstuff.info/playing_coi_sharp.html