Our Economy

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Blue Dawn Kennel
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Our Economy

Post by Blue Dawn Kennel » Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:31 pm

Hi All~

I'm just curious if those training, having pups and dogs for sale are slower than normal or getting lots of pups/dogs sold this season????? Just curious if things were slow all over or just around here. I know we've got a lot of nice pups and dogs for sale and not very many bits.

Thanks~

Robbi
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Re: Our Economy

Post by Wa Chukar Hunter » Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:39 pm

Things are tough here in TX - we have not been moving many pups. Training is slow too.
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Re: Our Economy

Post by ezzy333 » Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:17 pm

I have been getting calls for pups quite often in the past two months. Don't really have the reason though.

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Re: Our Economy

Post by phillipsgsp » Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:12 am

Kind of hit and miss here around Lincoln. Running into a lot of people that want training or a pup, but do not want to do anything till spring. I feel good about having 5 pups spoken for out of are next litter to be whelped Christmas week. I think as soon as the price of gas starts to go up, the dog biz should pick up to.

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Ricky Ticky Shorthairs
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Re: Our Economy

Post by Ricky Ticky Shorthairs » Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:35 am

phillipsgsp wrote: I think as soon as the price of gas starts to go up, the dog biz should pick up to.

Chad
Why is that?? I don't understand. :? :?

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Re: Our Economy

Post by DGFavor » Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:50 am

Seems to me Robbi it's also a supply problem - waaaay too much supply, especially GSP's. Just glance through the For Sale section on this site - tons of 'em. There was an article in a Utah paper a year or two ago discussing the overbreeding of the GSP and the trouble it was creating for rescue organizations/Humane Society.

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Re: Our Economy

Post by AHGSP » Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:00 pm

DGFavor wrote:Seems to me Robbi it's also a supply problem - waaaay too much supply, especially GSP's. Just glance through the For Sale section on this site - tons of 'em. There was an article in a Utah paper a year or two ago discussing the overbreeding of the GSP and the trouble it was creating for rescue organizations/Humane Society.
I think you are on to what I think Doug. There are a lot of really super nice pups on the ground right now that aren't selling and it definitely is not because they are not well bred and being produced by well known names. Just looking at the 1st page of the Dogs for Sale, I can see a half dozen litters/started Shorthairs that I'd be very happy with.

The economy has caused a few of my owners to decide to hold off until February for training while things shake out a bit and to get past the Holidays, but they have still scheduled training slots and I've picked up some new pups for training also and I don't even advertise for training services, so I have to believe the economy is only having a minimal impact.
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Re: Our Economy

Post by prairiefirepointers » Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:39 pm

Its been slow.. I had a buddy of mine who raises pointers also and he called up asking the same question. I have "TIRE KICKERS" who just want you to hand them over a dog for a little of nothing and expect it to also make sandwiches during hunting breaks. I just keep in mind that eventually they will sell, and pups don't bring near as much money. My philosophy is just try and get rid of them before they are 3 years old. I have one little female remaining from our last litter and we are becoming buddies. Rides in the front seat of the pickup with me,(sometimes) hunts great and I am getting WAY to attached to her. Besides your not going to get rich doing this anyways.
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Re: Our Economy

Post by birdsandbirds » Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:06 pm

phillipsgsp wrote: I think as soon as the price of gas starts to go up, the dog biz should pick up to.

Chad

Gas is the reason we are in this mess we are in now. If gas goes up it will only get worse.

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Re: Our Economy

Post by topher40 » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:05 pm

Its SLOOOOOW and not just you. :wink: I spoke with another couple of "breeders" that specialize in pet breeds and they are even worse off than us folks with working breeds it sounds. I havent sold a started/finished dog since August but I also havent had but one for sale since then. I cant tell you about training though. I had another baby last week and I started telling everyone about 2 months ago that I wouldnt have the time to do the dogs justice till spring. :roll: Like everything else though it has to go back up! 8)
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Re: Our Economy

Post by Duane M » Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:43 pm

REAAAAL SLOOOOOOW is the best (or worst) way to describe it. We have sold some to trialer but only two to hunters and they were both repeat customers. Like Prariefire mentioned LOTS of tire kickers and "buyers" who wanna shoot the s^&t but few buyers. Oh yeah and of course the guy who wants a two year hunting broke dog for 500 bucks, but thats nothin new. I figured with our bird pops rebounding this year like they have it would improve but it has not. More than the economy though I think it is a loss of hunters that has hurt us. The loss of hunting land to leasing operations and so called hunt clubs has forced many to make a decision between crowded public lands, "preserves" or no dog. Sadly I think many have chosen the latter. I did have several calls for training this year but since I am going back to Am handler I could not take any sadly so I reffered folks to a couple of other trainers.

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Re: Our Economy

Post by snips » Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:10 pm

Knock on wood, we have had a very busy season. The pups have all sold well. I think it will start to slow down a bit now with the holidays coming.
brenda

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Re: Our Economy

Post by h.q.s » Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:58 pm

I have had 11 pups over this year, and sold 10 of them. One is still here, and is a great pup.
However, I did have to lower the price, and that's when most of the sales were made. Hopefully times will get better :D

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Re: Our Economy

Post by stonegripper » Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:05 pm

: Our Economy
by DGFavor on Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:50 pm

Seems to me Robbi it's also a supply problem - waaaay too much supply, especially GSP's. Just glance through the For Sale section on this site - tons of 'em. There was an article in a Utah paper a year or two ago discussing the overbreeding of the GSP and the trouble it was creating for rescue organizations/Humane Society.
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I think Doug is right. The GSP market is FULL. It is one of the reasons I have left the breed and it's been a long time coming. It may take a down turn like this for more to see how the GSP has been turned into "marketability" versus what it once was. "Overbreeding" is a good word. Sad, but true.

Yes, there are still good GSPs out there, but way too many people "breeding" them these days...IMO

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Re: Our Economy

Post by CherrystoneWeims » Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:23 pm

It's not just in GSP's. I have Weim pups and have only sold one out of the litter. I had them sold and buyers backed out once the economy worsened.
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Re: Our Economy

Post by phillipsgsp » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:29 am

The reason I say when gas goes up biz will pick up is because when large companies are not making money they are not spending money and that is less money out into the general public. For example I work on corp. jets for large service center in Lincoln. Right now we are very slow because of the stock market and slow economy, therefore not very many of these companies/individuals that own a 20 million dollar jet are spending money on it having it repainted or new interior put in. I feel this directly because we have zero overtime and therefore I am making zero extra and am not going to have extra to spend on things that I might be able to do without for a while. I feel this holds true anywhere a large corp. spends money to maintain anything from planes to co. vehicles, computers, employee benifits,ect. If they are not spending then we are not spending because we are tightening the belt just as they are because times are slow. That is all I was trying to say when refering to gas price meaning the economy in general needs to pick up before I think we will see things pick up on our end of the sporting dog world.


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Re: Our Economy

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:22 am

They just posted a good increase in Christmas shopping over last year. I really think the worst part of the economy is people thinking it's bad and then they quit spending.

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Re: Our Economy

Post by Yawallac » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:02 am

They just posted a good increase in Christmas shopping over last year. I really think the worst part of the economy is people thinking it's bad and then they quit spending.

Ezzy
The increase is the hand gun sales. :lol:

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Re: Our Economy

Post by RayGubernat » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:21 am

Ezzy -

That ain't what i saw down here. The stores were empty on Friday and Saturday based on what i saw myself and others who talked to my wife. I really think they are trying to talk it up in hopes that they can convince folks to go out and get further into debt. I think the reports of a pick up in consumer spending is quite premature and self serving...if not flat out false.

You are exactly right, I believe, in your assessment that consumer debt is the grease that runs this economy. The lack of consumer confidence and the loss of equity, both in real estate and financial markets has forced many folks to assess their spending habits.

Kmart's reintroduction of the layaway policy...is designed to serve those who refuse to use their credit cards. Its apparent resounding success is evidence that folks are resisting going furhter into debt.

The folks who DO have a few nickels to rub together, probably took big hits in both the finacial and equity markets. Soooo even though they can afford to spend..they too are pulling in their horns because they know that the govenment will have no viable option except to go to them in the form of increased taxes, fees and reduced entitlements. Folks who were saving for their first house saw much of that savings evaporate if they were invested in "growth" stocks.

Folks who were a few years from retirement saw their retirement dreams disappear. They will now very likely continue to work, causing displacement of younger, especially non- minority workers, who are the ones who do the bulk of the actual work that gets accomplished.

Their continued employment will also cause other deserving, motivated younger workers to bump up against the fact that the older workers are not leaving and there is simply no place for them to be promoted to. Guess what that is going todo for productivity and initiative.

We are, I think, at the cusp of a historic scenario. This is, if I am correct, the first time since FDR, that the Democratic party, with contro of both houses, is staring into the teeth of a real live depression at the start of their admininstration. In the past forty years or so, they have come in to power at the tail end of recessions and been able to tax and spend their way into the next recession. We will see how they do when there is no way to spend themselves out of trouble. Democrats, in general, have not been known for their skill in the fiscal discipline department.

It is going to be an interesting four years I think. I hope our next president will have great success in turning the economy around...but I have some serious doubts about the ability of the Democratic party to make the real cuts and real reductions in adminstrative overburden that it will take to stimulate this economy.

I think we are in for a really rough ride. I really hope I am wrong.

RayG

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Re: Our Economy

Post by CherrystoneWeims » Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:40 am

Yawallac wrote:The increase is the hand gun sales. :lol:
LOL Especially with a Tax Free Weekend!! Too bad the weather was so bad. I want a new rifle but didn't get out to buy one.
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Re: Our Economy

Post by BigShooter » Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:15 pm

IMHO,

Regardless of the change in the price of energy, the downturn in spending was predicted in large part by the huge bubble of baby boomers who now are staring retirement directly in the face and are hobbled by being the greatest spending generation in history. Furthermore most of the boomers already have purchased what they need so it's very easy to eliminate discretionary spending. I too believe it will take a long time for spending to come back because millions of people have suddenly become serious about reducing or eliminating their debt "before" they retire.

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Re: Our Economy

Post by zzweims » Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:21 pm

My girls are ranked #2 and #4 in the country, and I've not received a single deposit for a pup. Mo's season came and went and we did not breed her. Jesus is due the first of the year. If I don't have at least 3 puppies pre-sold by Christmas, there will be no Zum Ziel Weimaraner pups in 2009.

The weim market is not flooded. Pam Cherry of Cherrystone has the only field bred weim pups available on the east coast right now. There *may* be a couple of litters in the spring up north, but not many. Some of my vizsla friends say the same. Folks who are waiting for the economy to turn around before buying a pup, may have very few pups to choose from, because the breeders aren't breeding without deposits.

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Re: Our Economy

Post by romeo212000 » Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:28 pm

We are not noticing a lack of ability to sell GSP's here but instead EP's are a dime a dozen down here in Oklahoma, and well bred shorthairs bring an average of $150-$200 more than well bred EP's. The bird numbers seem to be rebounding some here in Oklahoma and people are buying dogs now because of it. It will be interesting to see how my spring litter sells, but A very good friend and mentor of mine sold two litters this summer and fall with little or no problem. He even kept two back as started dogs and they were gone before they left the trainer. Oklahoma's economy is not greatly affected by the rest of the country. It is in fact rated one of the most stable states in the country. However, the majority of our sales come from out of state. But as I said he had a litter ready to go in mid-August and they were all sold by 12 weeks of age.

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Re: Our Economy

Post by BrettBryan » Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:11 pm

I made a breeding about one month ago. I didn't want to make the breeding unless I had at least 4 deposits. I got 4 deposits and i made the breeding. It's a little early for me to tell if she took right now. I should know really soon. I have had several people call, but not a lot commit. Although, I have been fairly picky about who is putting deposits down on this litter. We will see. I don't think I'll have a problem selling these pups though. Both dogs seem to be hitting their stride right now. I guess it just depends on supply/demand. But, the way I figure it, bird dog folks will always find a way to buy a quality pup. Now, if the market is saturated with that blood, it could be a different story.
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Re: Our Economy

Post by Duane M » Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:47 pm

romeo212000 wrote:We are not noticing a lack of ability to sell GSP's here but instead EP's are a dime a dozen down here in Oklahoma, and well bred shorthairs bring an average of $150-$200 more than well bred EP's. The bird numbers seem to be rebounding some here in Oklahoma and people are buying dogs now because of it. It will be interesting to see how my spring litter sells, but A very good friend and mentor of mine sold two litters this summer and fall with little or no problem. He even kept two back as started dogs and they were gone before they left the trainer. Oklahoma's economy is not greatly affected by the rest of the country. It is in fact rated one of the most stable states in the country. However, the majority of our sales come from out of state. But as I said he had a litter ready to go in mid-August and they were all sold by 12 weeks of age.
Romeo I know several GSP breeders here in state that are having problems selling, it's not a breed thing. At the ODWC Expo there were two on Saturday giving away pups at the entry and another with a sign for 250/pup. Far as the cost thing most EP buyers never have paid as much as GSP buyers, thats just the way it's been for as long as I can remember.

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Re: Our Economy

Post by BrettBryan » Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:12 pm

The economy is tough right now. No doubt about it. I just saw where we have officially been in a recession now since Dec. of 2007. So, about one year now we've been in it. I don't doubt a bit that it's getting tougher to sell dogs or pups.
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Re: Our Economy

Post by romeo212000 » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:20 pm

Duane M wrote:
romeo212000 wrote:We are not noticing a lack of ability to sell GSP's here but instead EP's are a dime a dozen down here in Oklahoma, and well bred shorthairs bring an average of $150-$200 more than well bred EP's. The bird numbers seem to be rebounding some here in Oklahoma and people are buying dogs now because of it. It will be interesting to see how my spring litter sells, but A very good friend and mentor of mine sold two litters this summer and fall with little or no problem. He even kept two back as started dogs and they were gone before they left the trainer. Oklahoma's economy is not greatly affected by the rest of the country. It is in fact rated one of the most stable states in the country. However, the majority of our sales come from out of state. But as I said he had a litter ready to go in mid-August and they were all sold by 12 weeks of age.
Romeo I know several GSP breeders here in state that are having problems selling, it's not a breed thing. At the ODWC Expo there were two on Saturday giving away pups at the entry and another with a sign for 250/pup. Far as the cost thing most EP buyers never have paid as much as GSP buyers, thats just the way it's been for as long as I can remember.
Perhaps the fact that between myself and my friend we will only have 3 litters between us or maybe it is the fact that we specialize in black and white shorthairs but so far no problems. Could also be the parents that are being bred as well. The stud is the first and only black and white GSP stud to earn any kind of field trial title ever and he is a 2x champion. The little bitch I am breeding to him is a fantasic little black and white dog just two placements from earning her Champion title. So for people who want black and white Champion GSP's out there we are one of the few people to go to. I guess it's supply and demand thing. For the people who want it there isnt quite as much supply.

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Re: Our Economy

Post by Duane M » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:24 pm

Sounds like ya got the niche buyers, lucky dog.

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Re: Our Economy

Post by romeo212000 » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:25 pm

BrettBryan wrote:The economy is tough right now. No doubt about it. I just saw where we have officially been in a recession now since Dec. of 2007. So, about one year now we've been in it. I don't doubt a bit that it's getting tougher to sell dogs or pups.
Recessions and peaks are just the flow of the economy. People think recession is bordering on depression. It's not. It is just the economy's way of fixing itself and it will rebound. What caused it is our arrogance as a government thinking we can just print more money among other things to fix it all the while just causing more inflation. People are the economy. People start hearing we are in a recession and start freaking not truly knowing what it means, and ultimately drive the recession even further. The fact is unless you were laid off, or were heavily invested in the market the recession impacts you very little. That's where to true money was lost. In fact with the price of gas dropping so significantly most people are actually better off now and their dollar is going further.

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Re: Our Economy

Post by romeo212000 » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:28 pm

Duane M wrote:Sounds like ya got the niche buyers, lucky dog.
Hopefully that continues to carry over. I say all of that and we may have a heck of a time unloading our dogs this spring. Who knows?

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Re: Our Economy

Post by Yawallac » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:42 pm

The stud is the first and only black and white GSP stud to earn any kind of field trial title ever and he is a 2x champion.
I have lots of black and white pups from Champion stock!! :D

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Re: Our Economy

Post by snips » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:20 pm

What sort of Champion?
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Re: Our Economy

Post by Yawallac » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:31 pm

Ahhhh, the EP kind of Champion....... :D

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Re: Our Economy

Post by prairiefirepointers » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:51 pm

NICE! :lol:

Had my first call on a deposit for my upcoming litter just a few minuites ago. I haven't had much trouble getting rid of pups, so hopefully the trend will remain the same.
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Re: Our Economy

Post by BrettBryan » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:36 am

Romeo,
I think that's the problem. A ton of people have lost their jobs. Unemployment Rate is trending higher right now. People are steadily getting laid off from work. True, people pulling in the reigns hurts the economy, but it's the normal reaction when the economy gets shaky like it is right now. But, there are people getting laid off every day right now. If they aren't getting laid off, they might be getting a pay cut. As long as that's the case, people will watch what they spend. I guess when people are worried about their job or pay, they tend to put buying a dog or pup on the back burner for awhile.
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Re: Our Economy

Post by romeo212000 » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:51 am

While what you say is somewhat true, we are not seeing the blanket layoff's we were seeing years ago. Things are a little shaky and unscrupulous business may go under but we will rebound quickly. As someone else said. Those who truly want to buy bird dogs will find ways to do so.

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Re: Our Economy

Post by BigShooter » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:58 am

Romeo,

Are you just talking about your part of the country or the country as a whole because the nationwide news contains blanket layoffs all the time e.g.: 40,000 from the financial industry, thousands from the aircraft manufacturers industry, auto mechanics are a glut on the market, forestry product manufacturers have closed & idled plants with accompanying blanket layoffs, 400 employees were just laid off from a large auto dealer's multiple locations, the "Big Three Automakers" are in trouble, ETC. ETC. In Minnesota alone, in addition to the dealers that have already folded another 40 or so are expected to close when their floor-plan money is due in March. Orders for anything involving discretionary spending are down nationwide.

Our local newspaper with a circulation of 250,000 just got physically narrower, lots of toilet paper rolls are now narrower, food packaging sizes, including dog food have shrunk in many cases coupled with higher prices for the smaller packaging. In States with large supplies of readily accessible wood people are moving in droves back to supplement or solely heat with wood.

Fewer people working & fewer companies in business will result in lower aggregate personal and corporate incomes and the government will have to raise taxes just to receive the same total dollars they've received in the past.

There have been numerous reports of alarming increases in pets being dropped off at shelters.

As many pundits have said with so many negative factors hitting the economy at the same time, this is the "Perfect Storm".

I appreciate your optimism but purely from a pragmatic standpoint do not share it and expect this to be longer and deeper than most of us have ever seen.
Mark

Willows Back In The Saddle
Tall Pines Hits The Spot
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Bo Dixie's Rocky
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Greg Jennings
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Re: Our Economy

Post by Greg Jennings » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:03 am

We'll rebound, but this recession (hey, it's official now!) has already gone on longer than average and longer than the two or three most recent recessions.

It's pretty obvious, but the first thing that goes when money gets tight is discretionary spending. Personally, I'm eating PB&Js and shopping at Goodwill to have cash to invest. Got to do something. The 401-k is a 200.5-k right now.

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Re: Our Economy

Post by RayGubernat » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:17 am

Romeo -

Everything is relative. If you have been laid off it is not a recession for you...it is a depression. If you are fortunate enough to keep your job, it will not be a recession...for you. If you have not lost half of your net worth bcause your investment portfolio took a hit, it will not be a recession...for you. If the value of your home has not fallen to 20% below what you paid for it...it will not be a recession for you.

If any of the above describe your situation...it is and will be a recession for you.

Fact is...the automotive industry is hemmorraging... badly. Not just trucks and SUV's, but the whole industry. Two automakers,that I know of, have delayed introduction of new models because they cannot move the previous year's stock. The showrooms are empty and they have been for months. They are now giving empolyee discounts PLUS financing PLUS incentives. Why is that, do you think?

What do you think that means for next spring? The assembly plants will be idle and those workers will be on layoff. But so will the workers at the plants that make engines, interiors, electronics, catalytic converters and all the things that go into cars. The demand for the raw materials, the steel, plastics, upholstery, paint, wiring will all be impacted. The car haulers will not have cars to haul. No amount of federal bailout money will change demand.

The financial industry is taking hits left and right. Fidelity just chopped a couple thousand heads and they are doing reasonably well. AIG has, according to my information, pissed away about 80% of the bailout money it was given and they still haven't made any significant changes. Watch out for that one.

All of the above folks will not have disposable income and since their houses have also lost value, they can't go anywhere either.

Just wait...the energy industry folks will start crying in their beer pretty soon. The price of gas is heading down to levels we haven't seen in a decade. The oil boys got used to those huge margins. Heck...every industry got used to huge margins and to working with borrowed money and simply passing those costs on...plus margin. That, I think is going to change

Like I said above, I hope I am wrong, but I think we are in for a rough ride.

RayG

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BrettBryan
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Re: Our Economy

Post by BrettBryan » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:20 am

True, bird dog people will always find a way to buy a bird dog or bird dog pup. I know, I am always looking to buy my next pup :D But, I would imagine the pool of prospective puppy buyers has shrunk right now. I work in the financial industry. I am no expert, but this could take some time to work itself out. We didn't get here in one year and I don't think we'll get out in one year. But, I'll try me best to keep my bird dogs. They better be good. I may need them to find me something to eat :lol:
Old dogs, children, and watermelon wine

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Re: Our Economy

Post by PowerPoint » Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:43 pm

Slow here as well.I have had a couple dogs here that are as nice as any Ive had all summer,that I cant bleepin give away.Ive got a male that would have sold within 2 weeks of listing him back in July that I have reduced from 1,000 down to 650! Losing money! I never would have thought within a couple months it would flip flop so ugly! There are some REALLY nice pups/dogs out there Ive seen also not moving.I remember a Crows little Joe male on the for sale section forever that would have been snapped up back in july in a matter of days.IM SCARED TO BREED ANOTHER LITTER!

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Re: Our Economy

Post by ddshine » Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:57 pm

I have had the best year in a while...I really do not get in to the selling pups thing but I always have a few started dogs for sale. This year I sold the 4 dogs i had before I could even advertise them. Now I have three dogs for sale and really are not going to push them until i get back from down south. I have really seen an increase in guys wanting to buy a bird dog because they grew up with them and now are starting their families out and want a dog and hunting companion. It has to get better but will probably get worse before then...Oh well it still could be a lot worse and you won't hear me complaining about still eatin!!
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BrettBryan
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Re: Our Economy

Post by BrettBryan » Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:08 pm

Powerpoint,
Do you have a pedigree that I can look at on the white dog you have for sale? I know he's got Island Grove Brute, etc, but would like to look at his pedigree if you have one available. Thanks. I have a buddy who told me he wanted a pointer pup, but this dog might be just right for him.
Old dogs, children, and watermelon wine

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Re: Our Economy

Post by wems2371 » Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:13 pm

From a firsthand point of view, we had wanted another pup this year.......but decided to wait. Our business is utility work...........which thrives to some degree on new houses going up. We're down 25% income wise. Like Ray said in regards to the auto industry, everything is a chain of events that trickles down. Fortunately, we already live frugally and tightened our wallets even more, so we'll do okay. But it meant not driving anywhere all summer. None of the 3D archery we use to do every weekend, our fishing poles barely came out of the garage, no drive-in or movie theaters, groceries were gotten every couple weeks and the 45 mile trip was divied up with every other stop we could think of along the route. Gas/fuel was a killer and about the only thing we did was go to the local once a month dog training days. I did not want to put out puppy money.......when it maybe should've been mortgage money instead. I didn't want to worry about another mouth to feed or more vet bills either. And I didn't want to bring a pup home and end up having to potentially work 80 hours a week--with no time for it. I'm glad we chose to wait and it's just given me more time to research various kennels and what we want.

While some dog breeders/sellers may still be having a good go of it...........I can't imagine that most of the stats wouldn't reflect similarly as to how the economy is fuctioning as a whole. Denise (committed to buying a pup in 2009 8) )

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Re: Our Economy

Post by DGFavor » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:19 pm

So much for my too much supply theory - rough counted 22 GSP litters/pups/started's on the 1st For Sale page with nearly a handful added in the last couple days so folks apparently think there are still not enough!! :lol: :lol: Saw a picture yesterday of what appeared to be thousands of brand new cars sitting in storage with nowhere to go. Hope it won't be the same for all these pups!! :wink:

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Re: Our Economy

Post by cgbirddogs » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:52 pm

BrettBryan wrote:True, bird dog people will always find a way to buy a bird dog or bird dog pup. I know, I am always looking to buy my next pup :D But, I would imagine the pool of prospective puppy buyers has shrunk right now. I work in the financial industry. I am no expert, but this could take some time to work itself out. We didn't get here in one year and I don't think we'll get out in one year. But, I'll try me best to keep my bird dogs. They better be good. I may need them to find me something to eat :lol:
I tend to agree. It's been slow in Nevada, but it ebbs in flows. When I'm out of female pups, everybody wants one. When I'm out of male pups, everybody wants one. Go figure. I've really been tested by people wanting me to drop prices on pups, and I've been tempted to cut prices drastically. However, I'm holding out on the fire sale thing. I love having pups around anyway.

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Re: Our Economy

Post by mountaindogs » Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:28 pm

I tend to agree. It's been slow in Nevada, but it ebbs in flows. When I'm out of female pups, everybody wants one. When I'm out of male pups, everybody wants one. Go figure. I've really been tested by people wanting me to drop prices on pups, and I've been tempted to cut prices drastically. However, I'm holding out on the fire sale thing. I love having pups around anyway.
This just got me to thinking about the car issue also. I recently heard on the radio how certain manufactureres had dropped prices so drastically and offered "employee pricing" and such and inadvertantly re-valued their product. If people could get something for half price last year, you'll have a hard time with getting full price this year. No one is going make money at puppies really, but you'll lose twice as much if you cut prices tpp much now maybe. I don't have a litter planned now, but am thinking about a fall 2009 litter. I will also probably have to go with a minimum of reservations before breeding.

Also I agree with the overbreeding issue. :cry: It makes me worried and sad, but I believe the GSP is becoming the "new lab" in popularity. And pet homes will gladly buy a $250-$300 pup from whomever, "cause field work doesn't matter" or maybe I don't plan to breed so I don't need all that health testing stuff."

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Re: Our Economy

Post by Rob » Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:50 pm

I have refrained from commenting thus far on this topic because I do not sell puppies and I don't have specific knowledge on the current market. But I am an economist for a mid-size investment management firm and I recently purchased a puppy, so i guess that makes me at least partially qualified :D .

It is true that a reduction in income (or more importantly, the anticipation of a sustained reduction in income) will lead to a decrease in discretionary spending. However, it is difficult to determine the value that we place on dogs (and hunting, trialing, etc.) as consumable goods. While many may be reducing these types of expenditures, I would suggest that many are actually increasing their spending - including our family. More time with family, getting back to the things that matter most, etc, etc. It is really an interesting question on the elasticity of demand for dogs, if you will excuse my equating dogs to goods. I am sure there is a reduction of spending at the margin - less trips, less expensive trips, whatever. But many of us consider puppies to be one of the last things to be removed from the budget, and in fact may be increasing expenditures. I think ddshine succinctly described my situation:
I have really seen an increase in guys wanting to buy a bird dog because they grew up with them and now are starting their families out and want a dog and hunting companion.
This obviously just anecdotal evidence, but I would suggest that there are many more like me out there as well.

Rob

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Re: Our Economy

Post by BigShooter » Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:41 pm

Rob wrote: I think ddshine succinctly described my situation:
I have really seen an increase in guys wanting to buy a bird dog because they grew up with them and now are starting their families out and want a dog and hunting companion.
This obviously just anecdotal evidence, but I would suggest that there are many more like me out there as well.

Rob
Rob, Thanks for turning the conversation back from purely the receding economy to: Does the downturn in the economy really affect the purchase of puppies/dogs for hunting purposes? I appreciate your anecdotal evidence. Economics is highly reliant upon mathematics and statistics. So a two part question is: what percentage of current prospective purchasers continue to have available discretionary funds ........ and a "sufficiently high prey drive" (read - grew up with hunting) that moves them to purchase.

I think we're back to Ray's point, one's view of whether we are in a serious recession and whether people are changing their spending habits is influenced by whether we "personally" are affected.

Mark
Mark

Willows Back In The Saddle
Tall Pines Hits The Spot
Tall Pines Queen Eleanor
Bo Dixie's Rocky
TALL PINES MOONBEAM

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Re: Our Economy

Post by Rob » Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:24 pm

Exactly. My undergraduate degrees are in mathematics and economics, and my graduate work emphasized econometrics (statistics). I was reluctant to get into any of that or the economy in general because it does not relate to the original question and nobody really finds economists all that interesting anyway :wink: .

There are absolutely people who are being so adversely affected by the recession that they are unable to purchase anything discretionary. I am fortunate that I still have what I do have, though our household income is off by over 40%. I just think that a case could be made for a percentage of the population actually increasing their "outdoors consumption" for lack of a better term in a negative economic environment. I would think that this represents a smaller percentage than those who decrease their consumption, but there are a few of us out there.

I have spent ten years helping build our firm, which has been severely negatively impacted in this market. At the end of the day it simply made me take note of how much time and energy I was spending on it and how little time I was spending doing other things I enjoy.

Rob

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