Question for the Elhew guys/girls

BrettBryan · Post by **BrettBryan** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:55 am

What made Elhew Damascus a big name in the Elhew bloodline? Was it him as a sire?

Also, was it true that he never placed in a field trial? Just curious as to what made him a big name.

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:18 am

You're correct, Damascus never placed in a trial, he has over 100 offspring that have though. What he produced and the fact that he was specimen to look at. Also he was out of McGoo and Jubille, which were both out of Strike. So he was double bred Strike, which made him appealling to some. Its funny how Bob really talked Damascus down in his book, because at the time he was producing a lot of winning pups, taking money out of Bob's pocket.

Vagas

BrettBryan · Post by **BrettBryan** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:27 am

Vegas,

That is interesting. I thought it might be just the way he was bred. I was told by someone that he had been run in a few NSTRA trials and never placed. Those folks told me that there was nothing special about the dog on the ground. So, I figured it must have been what he produced or the way he was bred. I was just curious if this was the truth or not. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:53 pm

Not for anything but Elhew Strike got at least a bit of what made him from a dog called Hook's Bounty Hunter. I think...so did Damascus.

Bounty Hunter was a powerful, huge running dog out of all age breeding that was very difficult to get around and he didn't place much. He did however throw a lot of "juice" into his pups. I am quite sure that is why Mr. Whele outcrossed to him, in the same way and for the same reasons he outcrossed to studs like Guard Rail, Dunn's Fearless Bud and others. For the "juice". Other ponter breeders did likewise.

I think Vagas is quite right about the reason Mr. Whele badmouthed Damascus. It was about the money. If you read his book Snakefoot, he goes into it several times about how he bred different studs that didn't work out to hsi satsifaction and how he bred them out of his line. The funny thing is, when I looked at Snakefoot's pedigree...each and every one of those "failed" outcrosses was in there. I found that quite amusing and informative.

Mr.Whele was either lying through his teeth about breeeding out the influence of those"failed" outcrosses or he was saying do as I say not as I do because I'm so much better at breeding than you are. Both sound like BS to me and when Mr. Whele was involved, it was VERY EXPENSIVE BS.

I am not a big fan of Elhew breeding in general. Never have been. But I do like what Hook's Bounty Hunter puts into dogs and went and got some of that myself via the Gunsmoke route.

RayG

cgbirddogs · Post by **cgbirddogs** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:18 pm

RayGubernat wrote:Not for anything but Elhew Strike got at least a bit of what made him from a dog called Hook's Bounty Hunter. I think...so did Damascus.

Bounty Hunter was a powerful, huge running dog out of all age breeding that was very difficult to get around and he didn't place much. He did however throw a lot of "juice" into his pups. I am quite sure that is why Mr. Whele outcrossed to him, in the same way and for the same reasons he outcrossed to studs like Guard Rail, Dunn's Fearless Bud and others. For the "juice". Other ponter breeders did likewise.

I think Vagas is quite right about the reason Mr. Whele badmouthed Damascus. It was about the money. If you read his book Snakefoot, he goes into it several times about how he bred different studs that didn't work out to hsi satsifaction and how he bred them out of his line. The funny thing is, when I looked at Snakefoot's pedigree...each and every one of those "failed" outcrosses was in there. I found that quite amusing and informative.

Mr.Whele was either lying through his teeth about breeeding out the influence of those"failed" outcrosses or he was saying do as I say not as I do because I'm so much better at breeding than you are. Both sound like BS to me and when Mr. Whele was involved, it was VERY EXPENSIVE BS.

I am not a big fan of Elhew breeding in general. Never have been. But I do like what Hook's Bounty Hunter puts into dogs and went and got some of that myself via the Gunsmoke route.

RayG

I've posed this question to others who claim Elhew wouldn't be much but for Hook's Bounty Hunter. My question is what other line has Hook's Bounty Hunter nicked so well except for Elhew? That begs the question of was it the Elhew influence that made Hook's Bounty Hunter produce so well, or the other way around? Besides Elhew Strike and Elhew Flint, I can't think of any son of Hook's Bounty that still figures so prominently in pedigrees today. Are there other Hook's Bounty Hunter sons that were not bred to linebred Elhew females who are still influencing lines today?

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:34 pm

CG -

I'm not sure, but I think Ch. Bulltown is heavy with Hook's but not Elhew. I am sure there are others, since Smokey was down at Gunsmoke kennels for a while and Gunsmoke did not use much in the way of Elhew blood that I'm aware of.

There is no question that one dog does not make a breeding. The influences of many dogs get into the mix. I might argue that it would be difficult to find a "linebred" Elhew today that didn't have a fair bit of Guard Rail in it. However, the blending of the genetics from superior specimens while maintaining the vision of the "gentleman's shooting dog" phenotype that Mr. Whele consistently pursued, certainly continues to have a pronounced effect.

RayG

cgbirddogs · Post by **cgbirddogs** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:42 pm

I was just looking at Guardrail's pedigree, and without trying to open up a can of worms, I noticed not only was Smart (Guardrail's sire) out of a prefixed Elhew (Elhew Sundown, who was by Elhew Jungle), but Nell's Rambling On's mother was out of a prefixed Elhew male (Elhew White Cloud). I couldn't find a pedigree to see who Elhew White Cloud is sired by, but its interesting because some say Guardrail was a rebel dog, but I see he's influenced strongly by an Elhew lines as well. It is wonderful how these old lines blend so marvelously.

myerstenn · Post by **myerstenn** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:51 pm

Elhew Damascus was owned by gary surrat in south central tennessee who bred some good dogs before he acquired Damascus. I would seriously doubt he ever placed in a horse back trial and i would bet that most of the placements of his get never did either . He was bred to a lot well bred dogs that surrat owned ,as he was trying to cash in on the elhew wave that hunters had a craving for back then. If it would not of been for that craving he would of never been heard of!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In my opinion he was just another over priced puppy with an elhew prefix...

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:31 pm

I would disagree with some of that. You are right, he has never placed but the last paperwork on one of my pups who would be a great granddaughter to him reads as such. 0-101-519. He has produced more wins than such dogs as Dunn's Fearless Bud, Elhew Snakefoot, Barshoe brute just to name a few. I understand the theory of, if you throw enough against the wall, something's gonna stick. Well 101 of them stuck.

bobman · Post by **bobman** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:32 pm

I'm considering a pup thats Elhew Crazy horse by a elhew female out of yellow rose kennels I dont know her pedigree yet but was wondering what you guys know about Crazy horse

This dog will be foot hunted for pheasant quail sharptails ect not trialed.

Thanks

Bob

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:22 pm

I have a daughter of Crazy Horse here at my house. She is a nice dog and hunts nice for me. She is a real loving dog. Has nice style, a decent nose, good common sense. Her downfall I would say is that she is a little ticked up more than I like, but if that's the worst thing then I can live with that. She is out of some good old blood on the bottom side. Elhew Strike x Candoit(daughter of Porkroll).

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:01 pm

cg -

According to the pedigree I pulled off the net, Elhew White Clud was sired by Elhew Marmaduke and his dam was Elhew Amanda. Marmaduke's sire was Elhew Sharpshooter and his dam was Elhew Dior. Elhew Amanda's sire was Elhew Huckelberyy and her dam was Elhew Cricket.

So it appears that White Cloud was indeed linebred Elhew all the way back.

The blending of the genetics is pretty interesting when we look into it beyond the superficial. I just wish that I could believe what is on the pedigrees I read as much as I believe what is on those from Mr. Whele's dogs.

RayG

Big Dave · Post by **Big Dave** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:29 pm

I like Damascus crossed with Fiddler's Ace or Bayou Teche Willie lines. I owned a granddaughter of Damascus that was double crossed to Fiddler, I currently have a dog from her and Honky Tonk Attitude. I liked the brains, snappy tail and conformation that he brought in. Damascus dogs were very succesful in NBHA trials in the past. He was an awesome looking animal.
I saw Elhew Flint and several litters of his pups, one of my friends raised one litter.

R-Heaton · Post by **R-Heaton** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:02 pm

I have from what I have been told a bitch out of the last litter Damascus sired naturally. She has been a wonderful dog and a 3x champion horseback shooting dog, only dog to every win the National Am Chukar SD Champ. twice. I have nothing bad to say about Damascus. If nothing else,, he throws that pure white bodies into his pups.

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:46 pm

Damascus is the 2nd all time leading Elhew producer,second only to his grandfather Strike.Damascus produced exceptional dogs.He even produced when bred to mediocre females.His production is a matter of Record with the American Field.What burned Wehle up was the fact that Damascus was such an Producer and he had let him go,and to the fact that Garry was selling Top Notch Elhew pups and dogs for 500.00 compared to wehle's 2000.00.Wehle got many letters and phone calls from people who thought he still owned Damascus,thanking him for the great pups and dogs that Damascus produced.This even Burned him more.This fact can be verified by Bill Richards,trainer for Crazy Horse kennels,who was once Wehle's top trainer.That Was The Reason Wehle Bad Mouthed Damascus in his Snakfoot book.I've talked to Garry numerous times about Damascus.Garry also came a Cat's Hair away from owning Elhew Crazy Horse.While on another trip to Elhew kennels after buying Damascus he seen a certain pup that caught his eye but wehle said this pup wasn't for sale just yet.He was asking the normal 2000.00 for his pups,so Garry offered him 2500.00 for the pup.Wehle thought for a few minutes and told Garry that apparently he seen something in this pup that Wehle didn't and he thought he would really hold on to him for a while yet.This pup was Elhew Crazy Horse.Garry told me he has kicked his own butt many times for uping the offer for that pup and giving away his deep interest for him.Damascus was a Producer as a matter of Record.There is more then one thing in that Snakefoot book that wasn't Fact.Talk to the right people and you'll find out.

birdogg42 · Post by **birdogg42** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:08 pm

Bo For those that dont know the right people, my self included, what are you talking about ? Not trying to be a smart azz.

Mike

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:36 pm

"Elhew wouldn't be much but for Hook's Bounty Hunter".Whoever originally made this Statement must have had Tunnel Vision,or don't know what they were talking about.Hook's Bounty Hunter wasn't the only dog to catapault the Elhew lines.Don't forget Dunn's Fearless Bud and Guardrail.I think Guardrail would have had even greater influence on the lines if Wehle had gotten to breed to him more.Wehle just started breeding a couple of females to him just before his untimely death in that car wreck.And you can't give all the credit to any of these three dogs without giving credit to those Elhew females that were bred to them.You have to give Wehle his due,he was a Master Breeder,who I don't think will ever be duplicated.He knew exactly what females to breed to all these dogs.And he knew how to double out cross.Taking offspring from all these dogs eventually and crossing them.I think the biggest influence the Elhew lines has now is how well they produce with certain other lines.The same as Wehle did back then.I think the best breeding niche he ever had was the breedings of Strike/Kiwi(double outcross).

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:47 pm

Mike,
??????

birdogg42 · Post by **birdogg42** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:59 pm

Bo, I am not questioning your knowledge. I dont know much about Elhew or any other bloodline other than what i read and the few i have trained and been around. I hope you didnt take that post the wrong way. thanks for replying.

Mike

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:15 pm

I think the best breeding niche he ever had was the breedings of Strike/Kiwi(double outcross).

Gotta love the Kiwi...... Guard Rail Daughter.

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:40 pm

Mike,
Didn't take it the wrong way in the least.Just not clear what you mean by-"what are you talking about ?"

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:43 pm

Elhew Kiwi- BLUE HEN

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:24 am

Exerpt from Garry's website(Pinehill Kennels).I think it pretty well sums the ole boy up:

ELHEW DAMASCUS
Sex :
Male
Color :
WHITE/ORANGE

Whelped :
04/04/1990

Sire :
ELHEW MR MC GOO

Dam :
ELHEW JUBILEE

Description :

ELHEW DAMASCUS IS A DOG THAT EVERY KENNEL OWNER DREAMS OF OWNING. HE WAS A NATURAL BIRD DOG, HIS EVERY THOUGHT WAS ON FINDING GAME. ELHEW DAMASCUS HAD EXCELLENT CONFORMATION, HE WAS A BEAUTIFUL DOG IN TROYHE KENNEL, ON THE GROUND, AND ON POINT. DAMASCUS HAD A HIGH DEGREE OF INTELLIGENCE, HE WAS BORN, KNOWING WHERE TO HUNT AND FIND GAME, KNOWING TO HUNT INTO THE WIND AND REMBERING WHERE HE HAD PREVIOUSLY FOUND BIRDS, BUT AS GOOD OF A BIRD DOG AS HE WAS DAMASCUS'S STRONG POINT WAS HIS ABILITY TO SIRE LARGE NUMBERS OF OUT STANDING BIRD DOGS IN EACH LITTER REGUARDLESS OF THE BITCH HE WAS BRED TO. ELHEW DAMASCUS AS OF 6-17-2005 HAS PRODUCED 101 WINNERS WITH 515 WINS AND NUMEROUS CHAMPIONS AND NATIONAL CHAMPIONS, IN ALL TYPES OF TRIALS. ELHEW DAMASCUS IS THE SECOND ALL TIME LEADING ELHEW SIRE WITH CH. ELHEW STRIKE BEING FIRST, WHO IS ELHEW DAMASCUS'S GRANDFATHER, ELHEW DAMASCUS NOT ONLY PASSES HIS OUTSTANDING BIRD DOG QUALITIES TO HIS SONS AND DAUGHTERS BUT ALSO TO HIS GRANDSONS AND GRAND DAUGHTERS AND HIS GREAT GRANDSONS AND GREAT GRANDDAUGHTERS, WHICH IS THE MARK OF A GREAT SIRE. ELHEW DAMASCUS HAS HELPED TO ENHANCE THE ENGLISH POINTER BREED BY PASSING ON HIS OUTSTANDNG BIRD DOG QUALITIES TO HIS OFF SPRING. ELHEW DAMASCUS DIED OCTOBER 2005, BUT HE WILL CONTINUE TO INFLUENCE THE ENGLISH POINTER BREED, THROUGH HIS FROZEN SEMEN PUPPIES, THAT WE NOW HAVE ON THE GROUND AND WILL SOON BE ENTERING OUR BREEDING PROGRAM, YES ELHEW DAMASCUS IS TRULY ONE OF A KIND. THANK GOD FOR SUCH A GREAT DOG.

R-Heaton · Post by **R-Heaton** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:44 am

BoJack wrote:Exerpt from Garry's website(Pinehill Kennels

Not sure why I thought that exerpt was funny,,,,, but he owned the dog which has made him a pile of money,,,,,, what did you expect him to say. Bojack,,,,, now I'm a huge Damascus fan,,, and I don't doubt your knowledge,,, did you ever see him hunt or on wild birds?

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:04 pm

R-,
No didn't get to see him hunt or on wild birds,but I would've loved to have had the opportunity.But point being he was a producer,even out producing the great Snakefoot.Yea he made a pile of money from him but it took him a little longer then Wehle at 500.00 pups compared to Wehle's 2000.00

AHGSP · Post by **AHGSP** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:41 pm

BoJack wrote:R-,
No didn't get to see him hunt or on wild birds,but I would've loved to have had the opportunity.But point being he was a producer,even out producing the great Snakefoot.Yea he made a pile of money from him but it took him a little longer then Wehle at 500.00 pups compared to Wehle's 2000.00

Dang son! I was beginning to worry about you, hadn't heard or seen hide of you in awhile!

birdogg42 · Post by **birdogg42** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:01 pm

BoJack wrote:There is more then one thing in that Snakefoot book that wasn't Fact.Talk to the right people and you'll find out.

Bo that was what i was talking about. I just got what you were saying to me.

Mike

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:11 pm

Dang son! I was beginning to worry about you, hadn't heard or seen hide of you in awhile!

Still kickin',just not as high.Haven't got to get out with the dogs as much as I wanted to this year.Always waitin on an invite down again to work dogs.But I know what a Busy man you are.You're lucky to be as busy in dogs as you are.Wish I had that problem.ha ha.

myerstenn · Post by **myerstenn** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:48 pm

BoJack wrote:PRODUCED 101 WINNERS WITH 515 WINS AND NUMEROUS CHAMPIONS AND NATIONAL CHAMPIONS,

Who were the champions and national champions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:30 pm

""Who were the champions and national champions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!""
I don't know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't have that detailed of info. But I'm sure Garry could tell you.His phone # is on his website-Pinehill Kennels.He doesn't have e-mail.Give him a call,I'm sure he can enlighten you.

myerstenn · Post by **myerstenn** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:18 am

BoJack wrote:""Who were the champions and national champions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!""
I don't know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You just made my point, I doubt If anybody elsdoes either....

R-Heaton · Post by **R-Heaton** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:12 pm

myerstenn wrote:You just made my point, I doubt If anybody elsdoes either....

I know the dog that has 10 of the wins and 2 of the National Championships,,,, now granted they are Am. National Championships but after all its about marketing. But Myerstenn,,,, I'm not sure of your point,, would anybody ever be able to name all the dogs on a dogs win record? In my personal believe Damascus was a great producer probably more for the hunters than trialers which of course is nothing wrong with that,,,, but his breeding was used for trial dogs but he would have been overshadowed by what ever cross they went to and probably not given the due credit. I got a good example of that,, I bred my direct daughter of Damscus to Silver Strike frozen semen,,,, those pups have 5x championship and another 7 to 10 wins,,,, but Silver Strike is given the credit and I've always been a believer that the momma is more than half of the pup.

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:12 pm

R heaton -

You make very valid points. If one looks at Damascus' pedigree, most will see Strike in there twice and will automatically go back to Hook's. What is also there if you do more than a casual look is as intense a linbreeding to Elhew as you could ask for, through Gimli and Mayfly(and Roundabout also).

I would have to say that while I might take note of the fire that Smokey put in to Damascus, the deep and consistent Elhew foundation supplied by the brood b!tch&s had a lot to do with passing on those abilities to succeeding generations.

RayG

myerstenn · Post by **myerstenn** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:19 pm

Rich ,I dont have a problem with silver strike"s record he was a quality producer. My question was11111111How many national champions or champions has Damaacus directly sired??????????????????????????????????

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:54 pm

myerstenn,
Your origanal question was "Who" were the Champions and National Champions he produced not "How many".
Your answer to either or both is in this ph# 731-632-4557.Write them all down when Garry names them and post them here so we'll all know for future references.Thanks.

Dave Quindt · Post by **Dave Quindt** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:11 pm

BoJack wrote:myerstenn,
Your origanal question was "Who" were the Champions and National Champions he produced not "How many".
Your answer to either or both is in this ph# 731-632-4557.Write them all down when Garry names them and post them here so we'll all know for future references.Thanks.

Since you were the guy that made the claim, why don't YOU call and find out whether or not your claim is accurate or not.

You claimed it; it's your responsibility to back it up with the details.

JMO,
Dave

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:15 pm

The stud always gets the credit,but I don't think any breeding will be sucessful without quality females.I beleive the female produces atleast 60% or more of of what the pups will be.Wehle had quality females and knew who to take them to.

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:50 pm

Dave,
If you go back and read my post it says at the beginning-Excerpt -from Pinehill Kennels website.I claimed nothing, but I do believe whats written there.It's not important to Me Who the Champions and National Champions were he produced.His record stands as the second all time leading Elhew producer.That and the numbers are good enough for me.

R-Heaton · Post by **R-Heaton** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:35 am

BoJack,,,for some reason seems like your the guy to pick on,,,, like I said before I'm a big Damascus fan,,,, but with your avatar dog being a nice looking setter I'm curious on why the interest on this particular thread? Feel free to PM me if you want.

GsPJustin · Post by **GsPJustin** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:26 am

No that's a pointer on rogain!

myerstenn · Post by **myerstenn** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:43 am

hey bojack Its like this the mom and dad have a fifty percent impact the grandsires twentyfive percent and the greatgrandsires twelve point five percent impact on the genes------- which level does the big D fit on???????????I would still like to know what national champuion he produced. Your starting to sound like my wife, she says , thats a good product, well how do you know , answer---- they said so on tv!!!!!!!!!

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:17 am

BoJack wrote:Dave,
His record stands as the second all time leading Elhew producer.That and the numbers are good enough for me.

I think last month he just moved into third behind Ch. Elhew Fibber McGee.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:20 am

Lets stop the argueing and get on with a good discussion.

Ezzy

Big Dave · Post by **Big Dave** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:31 am

I belive Eddy Smith from Texas won the NBHA open national one year with a daughter of Damascus. Bayou Country Bubba won an NBHA national title also, he was owned by Henry Truxillo who had a great deal of success in NBHA with Damascus/Bayou Teche Willie crossed dogs. If I remember right Bubba was a double grandson of Damascus. Fibber McGee or Damascus or anyone producing 100 or more winners is a great accomplishment.

BrettBryan · Post by **BrettBryan** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:04 am

It was not my intention to start an argument on Elhew Damascus. I just wanted something cleared up for me. Which it was.

I have heard it before, but this just confirms things for me. It is interesting to me that a dog that never really succeeded in field trials produced so many nice dogs. It just tells me that there's more to breeding dogs than looking at a title. I mean a title helps, but it might not necessarily be the dog you need to breed to.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:33 pm

I have heard it before, but this just confirms things for me. It is interesting to me that a dog that never really succeeded in field trials produced so many nice dogs. It just tells me that there's more to breeding dogs than looking at a title. I mean a title helps, but it might not necessarily be the dog you need to breed to.

This is something that I hope you never forget. Its been true for decades in the past and will be in the future. Too many people forget this as they get involved in the doggy games they play.

Ezzy

Duane M · Post by **Duane M** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:33 pm

which level does the big D fit on

I belive Eddy Smith from Texas won the NBHA open national one year with a daughter of Damascus. Bayou Country Bubba won an NBHA national title also, he was owned by Henry Truxillo who had a great deal of success in NBHA with Damascus/Bayou Teche Willie crossed dogs. If I remember right Bubba was a double grandson of Damascus. Fibber McGee or Damascus or anyone producing 100 or more winners is a great accomplishment.

Hows that for an answer??? Ya got a personal issue or something there Myers cause as the saying goes methinks thou doth protest a bit much.

FWIW a first hand report told me Damascus was sold for dirt cheap due to him being hard to get broke on his game, I was not there but the guy who told me that is pretty dang reliable.

Damsacus dogs are my personal tops in the Elhew blood. They lack the softness and brush pussiness that many Snake dogs carry in them but still retain great style and IMO better noses as a whole. I can go with the breakin on game story from my experience with first gen Damascus dogs as they do have a high drive to them. But then again just because it's easy don't mean it's better and I am patient enough to give em time.

okie · Post by **okie** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:09 pm

Duane
Don't mean to hijack this thread but is there any differance in quality of the natural sired Damascus dogs and the frozen semen dogs?
Thanks
Dave

Duane M · Post by **Duane M** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:39 pm

Dave I wish I could say whether there is or not. The only experience I have to date is with some pups sired by a frozen Additions Go Boy sire. I am probably going to do an AI later this year with a dog I KNOW threw great pups on a consistent basis when he was alive.

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:13 pm

R-Heaton,

This was my dog 4 years ago-Damascus grandson-(Out of Pinehill Walking Tall)(Damascus son).He died 4 years ago.I wasn't going to get anymore dogs after I lost him.But one of my sons and grandsons became intersted in bird hunting and they both liked Setters.So I bought a Pennstar female pup 2 1/2 years ago.The dog in my avatar was given to me 1 1/2 years ago,by a respected Setter man and trial judge.I'm actually a Pointer man by heart and will own another one this Spring probably-double bred Damascus/Mcgoo hopefully.Yea McGoo was a Producer too,but no sense in bring that up.I became Intrigued with the Elhew dogs in 1975 and owned Elhew Longrifle female,Excellent Pheasant dog.I don't claim to know everything about every Elhew dog,but I'm still intrigued by doing as much research as I can on the ones I like.I'm a Gun Dogger and bird hunter.Sorry for the small size and poor quality in the pic,I reduced it some how a long time ago and couldn't get it back to size without distorting it.Shooter was 10 months old in this pic and Broke.The Quickest natural retreiver I've ever seen.The three in the background are my two Sons and Grandson.So there's the story.