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Cheasadoodles

Re: Cheasadoodles

Postby 3Britts » Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:40 am

gar-dog wrote:Aren't all modern dogs including hunting dogs crosses? What year defines when crosses became designer crap? 1950? 1850? 1750? I wonder if guys were bitching and moaning 200-300 years ago about crosses. What year should have been the year that after which there should be no new breeds? 1962?

I think these so-called designer dogs are silly, but stepping back and looking at the big picture and history as a whole, why should there be no new breeds developed? Why after thousands of years must this stop? I cannot answer these questions, but it makes you think about bashing crossing breeds.


I don't think that it is the crossbred dogs that are being bashed, it is the reasoning behind the crossbreeding. Too many people are cross breeding dogs just to make money and not to create a new breed. I have yet to meet a person who is selling a "designer" dog that is carrying out a program that would allow the AKC to recognize the breed. They are simply preying on the publics desire to own something cute and new. I would like to see an honest effort in creating a new breed. But, until I see that happening, I will continue to disapprove of the crossbreeds and the blatant desire to make money at the expense of pure breeds.
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Re: Cheasadoodles

Postby gar-dog » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:26 am

Well i would think it would take several generations for any new breed to establish itself, and regenerate itself as I think Ezzy mentioned. There was always firt crosses.... it didn't happen overnight. Anyway, like I said I think some of these are silly, but 20-50 years from now may be a legitimate recognized breed with good and distinct qualities. I just don't think we should sit back and judge what others are doing from our own little perspective.
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Re: Cheasadoodles

Postby ezzy333 » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:42 am

gar-dog wrote:Well i would think it would take several generations for any new breed to establish itself, and regenerate itself as I think Ezzy mentioned. There was always firt crosses.... it didn't happen overnight. Anyway, like I said I think some of these are silly, but 20-50 years from now may be a legitimate recognized breed with good and distinct qualities. I just don't think we should sit back and judge what others are doing from our own little perspective.


I understand your point and have no quarrel with it. But crossing to breeds of dogs is not creating a new breed. If you are seriously going to do that you have to use the crossbreds in the breeding program and go on for generations picking the occasional pup that fits your goals and destroying the rest. And then use those pups to further the breed you are trying to create.

The designer dogs that are previelent today are just a cross with no intention of proceeding any further than to just keep buying more purebreds and continuing to breed them to produce more crossbred puppies where type or abilities can not be forecast or controlled.

That is a big differnce and the result is high priced crossbreds for now and forever or till the glow wears off.

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Re: Cheasadoodles

Postby gar-dog » Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:09 am

Not to get political here and get the thread locked... but I am involved in the gun debate and believe at the end of the day gun owners should support each other and band together against the antis. Divided we fail. Similarly, there are growing numbers attacking dog and animal owners of all kinds. If someone wants to cross-breed, so be it. This is America. Frankly, I have no use for fru-fru and designer dogs, but others do so I will defend their right to have one. That's all I am getting at anyway. What is happening now with labradoodles and such is just a sliver in time to us but has probably always happened throughout history.
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G
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Re: Cheasadoodles

Postby 3Britts » Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:06 pm

gar-dog wrote:Not to get political here and get the thread locked... but I am involved in the gun debate and believe at the end of the day gun owners should support each other and band together against the antis. Divided we fail. Similarly, there are growing numbers attacking dog and animal owners of all kinds. If someone wants to cross-breed, so be it. This is America. Frankly, I have no use for fru-fru and designer dogs, but others do so I will defend their right to have one. That's all I am getting at anyway. What is happening now with labradoodles and such is just a sliver in time to us but has probably always happened throughout history.
Cheers,
G


I agree that the crossbreeding is something that has been happening throughout history. Just look at the Brittany. This I have no problem with. That being said, the AKC has specific regulations that must be met befor a new breed will be considered valid. If I am remembering correctly, the breeding program must be at least five generations long and producing solid conformity to the new breed. A person cannot just breed two different breeds together and have created a new breed. The findings and conformity must be varifiable.
Its the money aspect that gets under my skin. JMO, take it or leave it.
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Re: Cheasadoodles

Postby tommyboy72 » Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:26 pm

I thought when I first got my English Setter and was doing some research that somewhere in the past that one or two of ,and I am not going to name them, of the registries had allowed some influx of pointer blood into the setter to improve the hunting lines and I know for a fact that I read that there was allowed an influx of English Setter into Irish Setter bloodlines to bring back the hunting lines since most of the hunting lines had been bred out of that breed and all that existed was show lines. I neither condone it nor am I against it I am only stating what I had read and I am not even sure where I had read it because it has been so long ago but somewhere the information exists if someone wants to dig hard enough. This was not done for the purpose of creating a new breed or crossbreeding only for improving an existing line in an existing breed but the point is it had a definite affect on the line as a whole so why should careful breeders not be allowed to selectively cross different breeds to come up with a new breed after, as was stated, many generations. We might some day get a pointer cross that might naturally retrieve over water and still run big, with lots of style, with a fantastic nose, that locks up on a dime in the uplands. Just a thought.
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Re: Cheasadoodles

Postby gar-dog » Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:33 pm

tommyboy72 wrote: We might some day get a pointer cross that might naturally retrieve over water and still run big, with lots of style, with a fantastic nose, that locks up on a dime in the uplands. Just a thought.


And shoot, clean, and cook the birds too?
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Re: Cheasadoodles

Postby tommyboy72 » Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:08 pm

That would be even better and if they could learn to drive themselves to the field then I could just wait at home in the recliner and watch tv while the dog brings home the birds, cooks them , and brings me dinner in the chair. Oops now I am starting to sound like my wife. :D :D :D :D :D
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Re: Cheasadoodles

Postby 3Britts » Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:23 pm

tommyboy72 wrote:That would be even better and if they could learn to drive themselves to the field then I could just wait at home in the recliner and watch tv while the dog brings home the birds, cooks them , and brings me dinner in the chair. Oops now I am starting to sound like my wife. :D :D :D :D :D


No, not like your wife. That sounds like a wife, but better. At least the dog won't talk during the big game. :wink:
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Re: Cheasadoodles

Postby tommyboy72 » Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:49 pm

So true 3britts. Maybe I could teach the dog to pour a descent beer with no foam on it and make nachos for the game too. :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Re: Cheasadoodles

Postby muddycreek » Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:50 pm

Man I was soooo far ahead of my time when I was a kid. THe whole designer dog fad makes me laugh. Where I grew up you had a purebred if you knew who both parents were. I grew up with a Springer/St Bernard cross (wrap you head around that one :oops: ). Hech my buddy could have been a millionaire if he knew how to market right. His lab bitch had quite a few boy friends over the years. All laughing aside once I got serious about dogs, well actually after a couple "cheap" mistakes, I found it better to spend my hard earned money on a well bred dog.
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Re: Cheasadoodles

Postby 3Britts » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:58 am

muddycreek wrote:Man I was soooo far ahead of my time when I was a kid. THe whole designer dog fad makes me laugh. Where I grew up you had a purebred if you knew who both parents were. I grew up with a Springer/St Bernard cross (wrap you head around that one :oops: ). Hech my buddy could have been a millionaire if he knew how to market right. His lab bitch had quite a few boy friends over the years. All laughing aside once I got serious about dogs, well actually after a couple "cheap" mistakes, I found it better to spend my hard earned money on a well bred dog.


And you still bought shorthairs. Lesson not learn. :wink: :wink:
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Re: Cheasadoodles

Postby Bigg_Redd » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:59 pm

wems2371 wrote:I thought that was pretty good info on the poodle--with the 3 links. Being they aren't considered a sporting group, I had no idea what their original purpose was as a breed and it looks like they could get the job done...


There used to be a guy around here (western WA) who hunted a pair of standard poodles. They were no joke - they flat out hunted.
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Re: Cheasadoodles

Postby muddycreek » Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:25 pm

And you still bought shorthairs. Lesson not learn.


Alright your on the list! :evil:
:lol:

Did you notice the Germans didn't use Britts to make the perfect dog :wink:
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Re: Cheasadoodles

Postby Rick Hall » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:42 am

muddycreek wrote:Did you notice the Germans didn't use Britts to make the perfect dog :wink:


Probably did notice that the Germans haven't made the perfect dog.

(Wondered how the heck a "Chesadoodle" thread made three pages - "Dog fight!!!")
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Re: Cheasadoodles

Postby 3Britts » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:36 pm

muddycreek wrote:
And you still bought shorthairs. Lesson not learn.


Alright your on the list! :evil:
:lol:

Did you notice the Germans didn't use Britts to make the perfect dog :wink:


"Dog" defined as that which never lives up to expectations. Why, yes, I did. :lol:

And, just as a teacher. I love lists. 8)
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Re: Cheasadoodles

Postby gonehuntin' » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:26 pm

gar-dog wrote:Aren't all modern dogs including hunting dogs crosses? What year defines when crosses became designer crap? 1950? 1850? 1750? I wonder if guys were bitching and moaning 200-300 years ago about crosses. What year should have been the year that after which there should be no new breeds? 1962?

I think these so-called designer dogs are silly, but stepping back and looking at the big picture and history as a whole, why should there be no new breeds developed? Why after thousands of years must this stop? I cannot answer these questions, but it makes you think about bashing crossing breeds.


Designer CRAP today is being bred for money, not performance. That is the difference. There is no thought given to ability, intelligence, or tractability. It's one cutsie wootsie bred to another cutsie wootsie and sold for huge dollares. So far, I have never seen a FC Lab or Chessie bred to a hunting poodle. Every Labradoodly or Chessadoodle I've run into has been bred in a puppy mill for profit.

They are beginning to train and run standard poodles today. If they cross FC labs or Chessies to those competetion poodles, well that's a whole different ballgame. For my part, I'd never demean my FC by breeding it to a poodle. Well, unless the stud fee was over two grand anyhow!!!
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