The 2009 National Bird Dog Championship (started Mon. Feb 9)

gunner · Post by **gunner** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:30 am

The 2009 National Bird Dog Championship started this morning at the Ames Plantation, Grand Junction, Tennessee.

Fortyone pointing dogs were drawn to compete in the 3 hour finals.

From the Jackson, TN paper...
http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20090 ... S/90207011

from the Knoxville, TN paper. Article on the setter Hytest Sky Hawk...
http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2009/feb/0 ... -sky-hawk/

from the Mempis Commercial Appeal...
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/20 ... bird-dogs/

brace by brace synopsis and action photos (posted each evening) by Brad Harter from the Ames Plantation site...
http://www.amesplantation.org/field-tri ... nopsis.asp

gunner · Post by **gunner** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:33 am

Grand Junction weather for the first week's running of the Championship

Today
Breezy. Mostly sunny. Highs in the lower 70s. South winds 10 to 20 mph with gusts to near 30 mph.
» ZIP Code Detail
Tonight
Breezy. Showers likely and a slight chance of thunderstorms. Lows in the upper 50s. South winds 15 to 20 mph and gusty. Chance of rain 60 percent.
Tuesday
Breezy. A chance of showers and a slight chance of thunderstorms in the morning...then showers and thunderstorms likely in the afternoon. Highs in the lower 70s. South winds 15 to 20 mph. Wind gusts to near 25 mph in the afternoon. Chance of rain 70 percent.
» ZIP Code Detail
Tuesday Night
Windy. Showers and thunderstorms likely. Lows around 60. South winds 10 to 20 mph with gusts to near 30 mph increasing to 25 to 30 mph with gusts to near 40 mph after midnight. Chance of rain 70 percent.
Wednesday
Windy. Showers and thunderstorms in the morning... then mostly sunny with a chance of showers and thunderstorms in the afternoon. Some thunderstorms may be severe with damaging winds in the morning. Highs in the mid 60s. Temperature falling into the upper 50s in the afternoon. Southwest winds 25 to 30 mph becoming west 15 to 25 mph in the afternoon. Wind gusts to near 40 mph. Chance of rain 90 percent.
» ZIP Code Detail
Wednesday Night
Cooler. Partly cloudy with a 20 percent chance of showers and thunderstorms in the evening...then mostly clear after midnight. Lows in the lower 40s.
Thursday
Mostly sunny. Highs in the lower 60s.
Thursday Night
Mostly cloudy. Lows in the upper 30s.
Friday
Mostly cloudy with a chance of showers and a slight chance of thunderstorms. Highs in the mid 50s. Chance of rain 30 percent.
Friday Night
A chance of showers and a slight chance of thunderstorms in the evening. Mostly cloudy. Lows in the upper 30s. Chance of rain 40 percent.
Saturday
Partly sunny. Highs in the lower 50s.
Saturday Night
Partly cloudy. Lows in the lower 30s.
Sunday
Partly sunny with a chance of showers and a slight chance of thunderstorms. Highs in the lower 50s. Chance of rain 40 percent

lvrgsp · Post by **lvrgsp** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:40 am

This mornings brace left out at 8:10 this am, gotta buddy down there riding this week. Good luck to all entrants.

Chip

gunner · Post by **gunner** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:44 am

Feature article and pictures on last year's winner, trainer Larry Huffman from the Memphis Commercial Appeal...

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/20 ... trains-tr/ -

KY Grouse Hunter · Post by **KY Grouse Hunter** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:23 am

gunner wrote:Feature article and pictures on last year's winner, trainer Larry Huffman from the Memphis Commercial Appeal...

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/20 ... trains-tr/

This link didn't work.

vzkennels · Post by **vzkennels** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:30 am

Try www.fielddog.com running order plus will give day by day reports.

lvrgsp · Post by **lvrgsp** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:25 pm

For those interested, this mornings brace both dogs up at 2 hrs. Afternoon brace picked up as well....
updates on the Ames Plantation site.

Chip

gunner · Post by **gunner** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:53 am

Luck of the draw...

Interesting that two previous winning National Champions were drawn to run against each other.

As well the only two setters in the entire field.

And by hailng as a Hoosier I was surprised to see where two of the three Indiana owned dogs are braced together for their run.

KY Grouse Hunter · Post by **KY Grouse Hunter** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:01 am

I saw the same things. I can't believe it. It's almost like they were purposely drawn that way to make it more appealing. But, that can't be true.

Chicken Dog · Post by **Chicken Dog** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:04 am

KY Grouse Hunter wrote:I saw the same things. I can't believe it. It's almost like they were purposely drawn that way to make it more appealing. But, that can't be true.

The spirit of Hobart Ames was present at the drawing.

vzkennels · Post by **vzkennels** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:26 pm

Shell Creek Coin first to finish the 3 hrs with 5 finds.Wild Agin picked up at 1:30.

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:57 pm

Sounds like Coin has just raised the bar a little higher.But a long ways to go yet.

Chicken Dog · Post by **Chicken Dog** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:17 pm

Both afternoon dogs (Pete and RePete) up early.

Neil Mace · Post by **Neil Mace** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:57 pm

Coin did a great job, but the weather is crap, look for the winner to come next week.

It is the luck of the draw,

Neli

midwestfisherman · Post by **midwestfisherman** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:23 pm

I don't think 5 finds is going to do it.

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:26 pm

It's not only the 5 finds Coin had,he also had a good race and finished the 3 hrs.(only one so far)Right now it seems he's The Man.That can change in any brace on any day,tommorrow or any other day til it's over.I don't think you can compare the # of finds from a couple of dogs last year to this year.That just may not happen this year,time will tell.The eventual winner may have more then 5 finds or maybe less.There's been some good ones picked up early so far and each time that happens it narrows the competition down.

midwestfisherman · Post by **midwestfisherman** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:04 pm

It certainly says a lot for him that he is the only dog to finish the 3 hours!!

R-Heaton · Post by **R-Heaton** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:29 pm

BoJack wrote:some good ones picked up early so far and each time that happens it narrows the competition down

Huh,, hard to argue that logic.

smoothbean · Post by **smoothbean** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:40 pm

I have never seen horse back trials.Can someone tell me when they pick up the dog does that meen they are just too tired to carry on or is there another reason they do this. Also I assume when they pick the dog up they are dropping out of the competition. Also correct me if I am wrong they do not shoot the birds (they only use blanks to see if the dog is steady) and they do not have to retrieve. I guess I am just ignorant to the ways of the horse back trials. I would like to see one in person but I guess there probably isn't much to see unless your following along on horseback.

Post by **Sharon** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:47 pm

When I started I thought that when the judge said, 'Pick up your dog.", I had to carry the dog all the way back to the car.

They are many reasons to pick your dog up and yes the dog is no longer under judgement once you leash it - or collar it by hand. Retrieving depends on the kind of trial , as does shooting the bird.Some are walking trials where you can walk along and see plenty. Big Championships often have a wagon to carry the gallery on.

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:09 pm

duplicate . Mea culpa.

KY Grouse Hunter · Post by **KY Grouse Hunter** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:29 am

I think next week will hold the winner. It is gonna take some backing and plenty of finds along with some covey action.

R-Heaton · Post by **R-Heaton** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:45 am

KY Grouse Hunter wrote:It is gonna take some backing and plenty of finds along with some covey action

I understand that is just your opinion,, but why would you say it is going to take some backing,,,, everybody knows you can't win on a back only lose,,,, and ya got to take mind,, it is Ames Plantation and all there is, is covey's,,,, cause they have food plots.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:15 am

it is Ames Plantation and all there is, is covey's,,,, cause they have food plots.

??You at the Overland?? Call a cab man!

Remember at the Idaho championship last year and Ladybuggies was on point...and she had her bracemate steal point before the judges got there - ended up an NP...so we snuck out credit for a nice back but your bracemate's handler wanted you to have to take an NP too since Lady actually pointed first!

That was good stuff man...field trial wackiness.

KY Grouse Hunter · Post by **KY Grouse Hunter** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:04 am

R-Heaton wrote:
KY Grouse Hunter wrote:It is gonna take some backing and plenty of finds along with some covey action
I understand that is just your opinion,, but why would you say it is going to take some backing,,,, everybody knows you can't win on a back only lose,,,, and ya got to take mind,, it is Ames Plantation and all there is, is covey's,,,, cause they have food plots.

Im talking about a compliation of all things. Good covey finds and maybe a back sprinkled in there to make things look good. Obviously a very strong race towards the front, ya know the good stuff it takes to win the nationals.

vzkennels · Post by **vzkennels** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:27 pm

Brace 5 both dogs picked up early.Whipporwill Firebox had 3 finds at 2:25 then picked up.

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:37 pm

Another Hoffman dog out of contention.Looks like Coin's still The Man at this point.It ain't over til it's over though.

Grange · Post by **Grange** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:11 am

vzkennels wrote:Brace 5 both dogs picked up early.Whipporwill Firebox had 3 finds at 2:25 then picked up.

I wonder what the reasoning for the pick up was considering the dog still had 35 minutes and was only 2 finds below the leader?

Post by **slistoe** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:24 am

smoothbean wrote:I have never seen horse back trials.Can someone tell me when they pick up the dog does that meen they are just too tired to carry on or is there another reason they do this. Also I assume when they pick the dog up they are dropping out of the competition.

Yes, they are dropping out of the competition. In a competition like this most that are picked up are done so by the handler - they are not ordered out of the competition by a judge. The handlers know what it takes to win a stake like this and if they do not feel their dog is getting it done at a level that will win it they will withdraw the dog from the running. There are a host of reasons why this may be done - but I doubt that too tired to carry on is a very common one.

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:16 am

Remember at the Idaho championship last year and Ladybuggies was on point...and she had her bracemate steal point before the judges got there - ended up an NP...so we snuck out credit for a nice back but your bracemate's handler wanted you to have to take an NP too since Lady actually pointed first! That was good stuff man...field trial wackiness.

That's pretty funny!

jetto · Post by **jetto** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:15 pm

Let me start by saying I have no knowledge of AF trials other than what I've read in the AF magazine, what I've read on this forum and what i've heard from others; I've never been to one so have no direct knowledge of the standards of judging, etc.. And I'm not looking to start a fight with you Pointer dudes- I'm following the action at Ames because it's interesting and my trainer runs Pointers and I enjoy watching them in the field. I am curious as to opinions- and I know there's lots of them on this forum! Looking at the pictures of "Coin" is the lack of style when birds are flushing over his head going to hurt him? I realize it's a 3 hour brace and it takes a heckava dog to do that- and my tail would probably be tired too- I'm just ASKING if you all think that will hurt his chances or is there so much more to this that the judges will ignore it. Kristi

MTO4Life · Post by **MTO4Life** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:34 pm

... so I posted this under Events, but it fits better here. I found some of my answers already, so I've taken them out. Maybe someone can enlighten me on the rest!! Thanks folks

Ok you long-tail triallers.... I have questions.

How big do these dogs run? I run a britt who is most likely a gun dog (derby yet), maybe a far reaching gun dog at best. I've seen her cast 250 yards, maybe 300 at the most while at her last trial. That's a big MAYBE! What kind of dirt are these dogs covering at Ames?

I'm curious as it must be something to watch a 3 hour trial. Very cool...

vzkennels · Post by **vzkennels** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:56 pm

6th brace both dogs lost one at :35 the other 2:30

Flush · Post by **Flush** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:16 pm

jetto wrote:just ASKING if you all think that will hurt his chances or is there so much more to this that the judges will ignore it. Kristi

IMHO. There is way way more to the trial. Would it be better if he was high and tight even after the flush? Sure. Is it a deal breaker? Absolutely not in my opinion. There is just so much more to the overall performance. Pointer/Setter guys get railed on due to putting too much emphasis on the tail, maybe that is true in some examples but overall I think good judges will look at the whole performance and the tail is just one small piece, especially considering a bird is flushing over a dogs head and he apparently held steady.

Just my $0.02 I've never been to Ames and I am just a dabbler in AF trials. I have seen video of Ames and some dogs that under "normal" circumstances are extremely high and stylish don't necessarily maintain their highest level of style through the entire 3 hours. It's hard enough just to finish.

Vonrommel · Post by **Vonrommel** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:49 pm

Are they running Saturdays now or just Mon-Fri?

vzkennels · Post by **vzkennels** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:11 pm

VR looks like they are running Saturdays. 8th brace Cedaroak Bee Sting finished the 3 hrs with 2 finds,1back,& 1 UP brace mate had 2 UPS & was picked up at 1:58

Neil Mace · Post by **Neil Mace** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:44 am

The field trial courses at Ames are both right at 12 miles long, every now and then, they will add a mile or two on the end. My experience with the Garmin leads me to estimate the dogs average speed at about 9 mph when moving or that they will cover just under 25 miles in an entire brace, if they have 8 to 10 finds, without extensive relocations and with a bracemate. With no finds and no relocations closer to 30 miles. With a bracemate, with both having finds, they will cover less ground, as they are loping, leap frogging to the front.

To a hunter or someone that has not had the Garmin on several dogs, that may not sound like it is very fast, but it is, when they maintain it for 3 hours.

It is not just the ground they cover, but how hard they hunt it. This is not a flat out, run as hard as you can, 30 minute Derby brace.

Neil

BrettBryan · Post by **BrettBryan** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:59 am

Neil,

Every time I go up to Ames to watch the AA CH I am impressed with the constant hunting pace the dogs set. You are very correct. It's not just a flat out line run. It is a hard, steady paced hunting clip. It is even more impressive to watch one get it done for 3 solid hours. The ones I've seen were there on a mission. To find and point birds. After the breakaway, they got down to business. No straight line runner going to win it. It takes a bird dog.

Flush · Post by **Flush** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:38 pm

Neil,

I bet your estimates are pretty close. We run astros all the time now and have several big running All-age bred Setters and Pointers, some of them offspring of dogs at Ames this year and last. I'm going to assume our dogs don't have the speed and endurance of the dogs at Ames. We won't normally run them for 3 hours straight but when we do, the fastest ones have averaged right around 9 to 9.5mph in open country and thats with at least some finds. That doesn't sound like much if you don't have an Astro, but 3 hours is a long time. For 3 hours the dogs must pace themselves in order to still be hunting at the end. Our faster dogs will typically average 10-14mph (terrain dependent) for an hour and that includes birdwork, bathroom breaks, etc.
I put no faith in pure estimates not confirmed by the Astor, but if you have a dog that averages 12mph over an hour while hunting, confirmed via the Astro, you have a very fast paced dog.

When one factors in the tighter Ames grounds our dogs would almost for sure be slower than they are in more open country, so I bet your estimates for the Ames dogs (which are again for sure faster than ours) 9mph average for 3 hours is probably pretty accurate.

-Flush

MTO4Life · Post by **MTO4Life** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:21 pm

Thanks for the last few posts... kinda helps clear it up for me. I know it is different dogs/different stakes/different organizations, but since I've never seen a trial like this, I can't really comprehend it without someone walking me through it!!

How far might the dogs range in front of the handlers (on average I guess as they could be close one minute and way gone the next!).

Neil Mace · Post by **Neil Mace** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:14 pm

Recovering from surgery one year, I was in the car gallery, and I skipped one of the viewpoints and raced to the Prospect Church on the afternoon course. When I got there High Plains Drifter was on point, a full 15 minutes before his handler, Billy Blackwell got there, 20 ahead of the judges. He was at least a mile ahead of them.

Most times they are hunting some 1/4 of mile ahead and have a knack for staying on course, at least the ones that don't get lost do.

Neil

lvrgsp · Post by **lvrgsp** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:52 pm

Snowatch put down a helluva ground effort with his 4 finds so I am told.

Chip

lvrgsp · Post by **lvrgsp** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:03 pm

Just got an update, White twist was lost and Amarige finished with 2 maybe 3 finds.

Chip

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:26 pm

Another contender has stepped up.Looks like him and Coin so far And hopefully more to come in the last week.looking forward to seeing what Strut and Bad River lay down.Shag Day tommorrow.They'll both have to lay down a perfect performance to even come close to having consideration.Them being braced together I think squelches any chance they do have to a big degree.Some good ones have qualified and got there the last couple of years but couldn't make the cut.I wish them both luck but it's going to take alot more then that.Think how big the gallery would be If one of them put it All together and there was a callback between them and the top Pointer.You'd probably have to watch that brace from a helicoptor to see anything.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:10 pm

They'll both have to lay down a perfect performance to even come close to having consideration.

I doubt the judges would agree with ya' and would likely be offended at your suggestion they would have different standards depending on the breed that is under their judgement! I know first hand that one of those guys would put up a shorttail over both pointers and setters if, in his judgement, it outperformed the others. Integrity - I doubt you get to judge the Nat'ls without it!

R-Heaton · Post by **R-Heaton** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:54 pm

BoJack wrote:Them being braced together I think squelches any chance they do have to a big degree

What's your thinking behind that?

BoJack wrote:Some good ones have qualified and got there the last couple of years but couldn't make the cut

This is true,,,, but don't think it had anything to do with being a setter,,,, just plain got beat,,,,all but one of the pointers get beat there year after year. I can't think of a setter that has even finished the 3 hours in along time.

Flush · Post by **Flush** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:07 pm

This is true,,,, but don't think it had anything to do with being a setter,,,, just plain got beat,,,,all but one of the pointers get beat there year after year. I can't think of a setter that has even finished the 3 hours in along time.

Exactly what I was thinking. There is nothing even close to evidence that a Setter got snubbed anytime in the recent past at Ames.

I think Tommy B finished recently although he didn't have any finds. If I recall it was early in the trial with no real strong performances up to that point so Richie left him down, presumably hoping for late bird work.

Skyhawk just won the Quail Inventational, a setter has NEVER done that in it's 45 year history. I think the judges have a lot more integrity than many give them credit for, it does prove a convenient excuse if you run anything other than a Pointer and don't want to face reality. I say that as a Setter guy.

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:20 pm

Heaton Wrote:

"What's your thinking behind that"?

The chances of a Setter winning the National were at least cut in 1/2 when both drew the same brace last night. Did we draw the magical brace, when the birds will be moving? Before last night the Shags had a 2 in 20 chance on a good brace unless drawn together. Now they have a 1 in 20.

That was posted by Jim Machaletz Jetsetter's owner last week on another board, after the draw.And makes Sense to me,How about you?

"just plain got beat" That translate into= couldn't make the cut.

"I can't think of a Setter that has even finished the 3 hours in a long time"

What's your thinking behind the reason they haven't finished in a long time??

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:28 pm

Flush Wrote:

it does prove a convenient excuse if you run anything other than a Pointer and don't want to face reality. I say that as a Setter guy.

Reality of What??

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:38 pm

It would tickle the heck out of me to see either Shag win.I've owned Setters off and on since the 70"s(Two now)and a Pointer pup.But I try and stay in the Reality of the odds in the last 38 years, And the results.Tommorrow will tell the story.