Blackhawk son to Blackhawk daughter??

Pointers_31 · Post by **Pointers_31** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:25 pm

Well, my Rock Acre Blackhawk x Elhew Katie Lee female should be in heat any day now. I am still in the air about who to breed her to. I have thought about Erin's Southern Pride, Erin's Bad River, or Elhew Sinbad. The one dog that I would really like to breed to, but I'm just not too sure if it would be too close or not, would be to Strut. I really like the way he looks, and he has proven himself as a heck of a dog at such a young age, and I would really like to use him as a stud. Plus, I kind of want a tri-colored pointer! What are your opinions? And for everyone to remember, everyone has their own opinion, so please don't blow this out of context!

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:36 pm

I am sure you could breed to Strut and be fine. Bad River is bred out of two dogs out of the same breeding. The dog I like the looks of is Erins Little Drummer. There are so many good Pointer studs out there to choose from.

Pointers_31 · Post by **Pointers_31** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:28 pm

I agree there are a lot of nice Pointers out there, but none that are really that dominate as far as production goes. I would say that Blackhawk is probably the top dog out there for production right now. I also like that Little Drummer dog, I talked to Sean about selling him, but he didn't give me a price, instead he priced a couple other coming derbies that he has for sale to me. I can only imagine what he wants for that dog, after gicing me some prices for the ones he isn't going to campaign!

Does anyone know of some offspring from Strut?

Chicken Dog · Post by **Chicken Dog** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:03 pm

Pointers_31 wrote:Well, my Rock Acre Blackhawk x Elhew Katie Lee female should be in heat any day now. I am still in the air about who to breed her to. I have thought about Erin's Southern Pride, Erin's Bad River, or Elhew Sinbad. The one dog that I would really like to breed to, but I'm just not too sure if it would be too close or not, would be to Strut. I really like the way he looks, and he has proven himself as a heck of a dog at such a young age, and I would really like to use him as a stud. Plus, I kind of want a tri-colored pointer! What are your opinions? And for everyone to remember, everyone has their own opinion, so please don't blow this out of context!

If you want a Setter buy a Setter.

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:10 pm

This one is a no brainer. A high percentage of the great dogs of the past have been bred from half brother an sister and is definately the way to go when you find the dogs you like that do not have a lot of faults. All you are doing is doubling up on the Blachhawk blood which you love and still have to other bloodlines involved. A complete outcross is 4 different bloodlines. 3 compared to 4 is not a big difference or can it be called a real tight breeding but rather a way to bring some different blood to the strong Blackhawk blood. Just can't get any better than that.

Ezzy

lvrgsp · Post by **lvrgsp** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:23 pm

,.....

up-hunter · Post by **up-hunter** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:34 pm

What about sugar knoll buckshot as a stud dog, i've heard good things about him but that mostly from guys running in the woods.

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:42 pm

up-hunter wrote:What about sugar knoll buckshot as a stud dog, i've heard good things about him but that mostly from guys running in the woods.

If you are looking for a bird dog, I think you could do a whole lot worse tha breeding to Sugarknoll Buckshot. He is a pretty complete shooting dog, based on what I have seen.

RayG

Chicken Dog · Post by **Chicken Dog** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:52 pm

lvrgsp wrote:Yea your doubling up on Blackhawk allright and the dropper thats in there too..... .....Talk to Ross at Caladen Kennels he bred to Strut. My thoughts are I would'nt breed that way on Blackhawk...

JMO,

Chip

Unless you want a tri-color setter.

lvrgsp · Post by **lvrgsp** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:08 pm

.....

nitrex · Post by **nitrex** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:41 pm

RayGubernat wrote:
up-hunter wrote:What about sugar knoll buckshot as a stud dog, i've heard good things about him but that mostly from guys running in the woods.
If you are looking for a bird dog, I think you could do a whole lot worse tha breeding to Sugarknoll Buckshot. He is a pretty complete shooting dog, based on what I have seen.

RayG

I'll throw my vote in on Sugerknoll Buckshot! He would be my first pick for the sire of a litter. Actually, If I could find a pup out of him, I may just have to talk the wife into it!!!!

Nitrex

BrettBryan · Post by **BrettBryan** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:58 am

Chicken dog wrote,

If you want a Setter buy a Setter.

a little harsh, don't you think?

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:47 am

Chicken Dog wrote:
Pointers_31 wrote:Well, my Rock Acre Blackhawk x Elhew Katie Lee female should be in heat any day now. I am still in the air about who to breed her to. I have thought about Erin's Southern Pride, Erin's Bad River, or Elhew Sinbad. The one dog that I would really like to breed to, but I'm just not too sure if it would be too close or not, would be to Strut. I really like the way he looks, and he has proven himself as a heck of a dog at such a young age, and I would really like to use him as a stud. Plus, I kind of want a tri-colored pointer! What are your opinions? And for everyone to remember, everyone has their own opinion, so please don't blow this out of context!
If you want a Setter buy a Setter.

Do you have some sort of proof or are we just repeating rumors and gossip?

Ezzy

cgbirddogs · Post by **cgbirddogs** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:53 am

I've read some great things about Gamemaker, who is out of Rockacre Buckwheat, making him a 1/2 brother to Blackhawk. He's ran in the national a couple of times and has had multiple finds each occassion. They say he has the same regal composure (high head and tail) around his game at 10 minutes as he does 2 hours and 10 minutes. Not to mention he's a great bird finder. If he's passing that trait along, I'd want some of that.

jakemaster · Post by **jakemaster** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:54 am

Pointers_31 wrote:I agree there are a lot of nice Pointers out there, but none that are really that dominate as far as production goes. I would say that Blackhawk is probably the top dog out there for production right now. I also like that Little Drummer dog, I talked to Sean about selling him, but he didn't give me a price, instead he priced a couple other coming derbies that he has for sale to me. I can only imagine what he wants for that dog, after gicing me some prices for the ones he isn't going to campaign!

Does anyone know of some offspring from Strut?

Caladen's Struttin' Gentleman is out of Strutt. He is a heck of a dog already winning on the local circuit and now is out with John Ray. You will be seeing his name a bunch in the very near future. He is out of Strut and Caladens Elhew Sarah and she is throwing some great pups. We have a Gent litter on the ground that we have high hopes for... bottom is out of Blackhawk
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1626

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:42 am

ezzy333 wrote:
Chicken Dog wrote:
Pointers_31 wrote:Well, my Rock Acre Blackhawk x Elhew Katie Lee female should be in heat any day now. I am still in the air about who to breed her to. I have thought about Erin's Southern Pride, Erin's Bad River, or Elhew Sinbad. The one dog that I would really like to breed to, but I'm just not too sure if it would be too close or not, would be to Strut. I really like the way he looks, and he has proven himself as a heck of a dog at such a young age, and I would really like to use him as a stud. Plus, I kind of want a tri-colored pointer! What are your opinions? And for everyone to remember, everyone has their own opinion, so please don't blow this out of context!
If you want a Setter buy a Setter.
Do you have some sort of proof or are we just repeating rumors and gossip?
Ezzy

There will never be any proof, doesnt mean that is or isnt the truth, people always find something to speculate about.

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:58 am

Thats what I suspected. Just might be because he throws some tri-color even though that was happening long before Strut. Oh well don't suppose we can ever stop people from trying to run someone elses dog down.

Ezzy

Pointers_31 · Post by **Pointers_31** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:05 am

Well, I think I have narrowed it down between Strut and Erin's Bad River. I haven't talked to Tommy yet, because I don't have a phone number for him. If anyone would happen to have one would you please pass it on to me?

My dog is what I would call a medium range dog, she doesn't run big enough to horseback, but runs plenty on foot. I want a dog that handles well, which I think both seem to do for being All-Age dogs. I have thought about taking her to Sugarknoll Buckshot, but like I said she doesn't run real big that is why I am going to an All-Age dog.

The biggest problem I see is getting her to Tommy if I decide to go to Strut. I am in Nebraska and he is in Florida. I don't want to do the chilled or frozen semen thing, I want it to be a live breeding. Now, with Bad River I could take off in the morning and be to Seans early afternoon. Saving me a lot of money in transportation along with the stud fee.

cgbirddogs · Post by **cgbirddogs** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:15 am

I'm pretty sure Ross has his number, as he bred to Strut. When Ross bred to him, the only way you could do it was take him to the Plantation because they were not doing chilled or frozen semen with Strut at that time. That may have changed though. I'm curious as to why you would consider Bad River over his father Pride, since Pride is still alive and producing?

Pointers_31 · Post by **Pointers_31** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:30 am

I don't quite know why I have decided to rule out Southern Pride? I talked to Randy Anderson the other night and he was excited about possibly doing this breeding. I like Randy, he judged my derby last spring and he seems like a standup guy. Just like any dog though, you hear such mixed responses to each dog. Heck I should just take her to my male dog, he was the Midwest SD Derby of the year last year. It will be just as much of a crapshoot breeding to him as it would to breed to any other dog! Plus, there isn't as much dirt out there on him! haha!

Chicken Dog · Post by **Chicken Dog** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:44 am

ezzy333 wrote:
Chicken Dog wrote:
Pointers_31 wrote:Well, my Rock Acre Blackhawk x Elhew Katie Lee female should be in heat any day now. I am still in the air about who to breed her to. I have thought about Erin's Southern Pride, Erin's Bad River, or Elhew Sinbad. The one dog that I would really like to breed to, but I'm just not too sure if it would be too close or not, would be to Strut. I really like the way he looks, and he has proven himself as a heck of a dog at such a young age, and I would really like to use him as a stud. Plus, I kind of want a tri-colored pointer! What are your opinions? And for everyone to remember, everyone has their own opinion, so please don't blow this out of context!
If you want a Setter buy a Setter.
Do you have some sort of proof or are we just repeating rumors and gossip?

Ezzy

I know the breeder, breeding and littermates.

Pointers_31 · Post by **Pointers_31** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:15 am

Now, lets not get off track! I think everyone knows the history of Blackhawk. I am just looking for input on who, if in my situation would you take this dog to?

Pointers_31 · Post by **Pointers_31** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:20 am

Oh, and another reason why I'm leaning towards Strut, is while I was at the Jayhawk OSD CH. last fall I saw the most beautiful dog I had ever seen! It was just a pup, and it was out of a Blackhawk X Katie Lee female, and his sire was out of Blackhawk X Swami. Double bred Blackhawk, and Jerry said he was a super nice pup as well!

BrettBryan · Post by **BrettBryan** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:31 am

Chicken Dog, tell us the story. Can't lead a horse to water and not let him drink.

lvrgsp · Post by **lvrgsp** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:01 pm

There was a dropper on the bottom side of Blackhawks pedigree......I think we had this discussion before Brett, it's in here somewhere I'll try and find it.
Tri color pointers don't just show up all of a sudden out of nowhere because at some point and time they bred tri color hounds in them. Years ago starting the breed maybe yes, modern day, no. Kinda the same thing as that mutant gene popping up in the Lemon and White shorthairs. How many heavily linebred Blackhawk dogs have you seen lately?
The question was, should I breed my Blackhawk daughter back to a Blackhawk son? My suggestion to you is no.

Just my opinion,

Chip

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:08 pm

lvrgsp wrote:There was a dropper on the bottom side of Blackhawks pedigree......I think we had this discussion before Brett, it's in here somewhere I'll try and find it.
Tri color pointers don't just show up all of a sudden out of nowhere because at some point and time they bred tri color hounds in them. Years ago starting the breed maybe yes, modern day, no. Kinda the same thing as that mutant gene popping up in the Lemon and White shorthairs. How many heavily linebred Blackhawk dogs have you seen lately?
The question was, should I breed my Blackhawk daughter back to a Blackhawk son? My suggestion to you is no.

Just my opinion,

Chip

You mean if I pay and extra $1000 for an off colored GSP it might not be pure? :roll:

R-Heaton · Post by **R-Heaton** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:21 pm

ACooper wrote:You mean if I pay and extra $1000 for an off colored GSP it might not be pure

Was that meant to be funny,,,, doesn't even have to be an off color for it not to be pure,, whatever pure means.

BrettBryan · Post by **BrettBryan** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:59 pm

Chip,

Thanks, I've heard people say it, but I've never really had anyone back it up with the proof. It's easy to say, hey he's tri-color, must be part setter. But, i've never actually heard the real story about the setter that's in there.

I've got a Blackhawk son out of a Buckwheat bitch. He's a nice bird dog. I like him a whole lot. He doesn't look like a setter. He's not built like a setter. Who knows. All i know is he's a nice one. I get razzed about running GSP's in the south and now I get razzed about running a pointer with some setter in him

I don't mind. I got pretty thick skin

lvrgsp · Post by **lvrgsp** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:41 pm

Yea I understand you just placed that pointer of yours here lately. Congrats...
There is no doubting what Blackhawk has produced, just trying to clear the waters......clear as mud now huh?....

Chip

BrettBryan · Post by **BrettBryan** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:06 pm

Chip,
thanks alot. I hope he's just getting started. He placed in a puppy stake last year. i haven't run him in any derby's. this was the second NSTRA trial that i ran him in. He did a nice job for me. maybe one of these day's i"ll get a horse.

I've heard a lot of rumors about blackhawk, i just wanted to know what the real deal was.

as far as beeding a son to a daughter, maybe someone who's bred somr tight blackhawk litters will chime in. if the rumor is true, maybe some pups would have long hair.

jakemaster · Post by **jakemaster** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:18 pm

BrettBryan wrote:as far as beeding a son to a daughter, maybe someone who's bred somr tight blackhawk litters will chime in. if the rumor is true, maybe some pups would have long hair.

Our Gent litter has no tri color or long hair. Gent has a brother running with Dave Grubb and loves him. Another brother just came back for a visit and was a stunner that hunts BIGGGGG.
I will post some pics of Gents litter next week. They look GOOD http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1626

dudleysmith · Post by **dudleysmith** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:27 pm

BrettBryan wrote:Chip,
thanks alot. I hope he's just getting started. He placed in a puppy stake last year. i haven't run him in any derby's. this was the second NSTRA trial that i ran him in. He did a nice job for me. maybe one of these day's i"ll get a horse.

I've heard a lot of rumors about blackhawk, i just wanted to know what the real deal was.

as far as beeding a son to a daughter, maybe someone who's bred somr tight blackhawk litters will chime in. if the rumor is true, maybe some pups would have long hair.

Wonder if any of your pups littemates had long hair?

BrettBryan · Post by **BrettBryan** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:23 am

dudley,

I'm not really sure. I bought my pup when he was about 5 months old.
I don't think I could ask for a nicer, classier bird dog for what I want right now

SHOWTIME · Post by **SHOWTIME** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:19 pm

Pointer_31 I believe I am #1 on the list for a female on your current breeding to Chick and I can say if you were to breed her to either Big Hawk or Strut next time she comes in I will just go ahead and give you another deposit when I pick up this pup. Go for it because I will tell you this pup I am getting will most likely be bred to Big Hawk after she is finished!
Thanks
Marty

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:25 pm

I had some droppers inadvertently a few years ago and none of the pups looked like or were built like setters. They all looked like purebred pointers. That is the reason my setter is spayed now but the point is they can look exactly like a pointer and still be a dropper.

BrettBryan · Post by **BrettBryan** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:28 am

Here's a son of Rock Acre Blackhawk and a Rock Acre Buckwheat bitch. Buckwheat was Blackhawk's sire. Like i said, i don't know if he's a "dropper'. I just know he's going to be one helluva birdog from what i've seen out of him.

midwestfisherman · Post by **midwestfisherman** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:52 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
Chicken Dog wrote:
Pointers_31 wrote:
If you want a Setter buy a Setter.
Do you have some sort of proof or are we just repeating rumors and gossip?

Ezzy
I know the breeder, breeding and littermates.

That's nice, but where's the PROOF!!??

jhjeff69 · Post by **jhjeff69** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:34 am

Brett,

Was the Buckwheat female your Blackhawk dog is out of Tallgrass Pretty?

BrettBryan · Post by **BrettBryan** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:09 am

jhjeff69,

Yes. You know her?

jhjeff69 · Post by **jhjeff69** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:47 am

Yes, she is right here. I thought I remembered your dog as a little pup, he looks nice. Pretty is a littermate to Gamemaker who was mentioned earlier in the thread. They were the two best out of the Buckwheat litter out of Therapy's Little Bess who produced many good dogs.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:13 pm

BrettBryan wrote:Here's a son of Rock Acre Blackhawk and a Rock Acre Buckwheat bitch. Buckwheat was Blackhawk's sire. Like i said, i don't know if he's a "dropper'. I just know he's going to be one helluva birdog from what i've seen out of him.

What a great looking dog, post more photos of him.

BrettBryan · Post by **BrettBryan** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:51 pm

jhjeff69,

Thanks. I like him.

Gamemaker has found lots of birds up at Ames at the Nat'l Ch AA the last two years. He's a bird dog.

ACooper, i'll try to post a couple more of Hank. Here's a couple more of him. I like the one with my son, who was 3 in this picture, flushing for him. If a dog can stay intense through a 3 year old boy talking and flushing for him, you got them

He's a good helper though.

Pointers_31 · Post by **Pointers_31** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:46 am

I bred Chick to Fibber McGee and her pups are due to whelp roughly around the 13th of Oct. I have 2 possibly 3 females spoken for and no males. I put my information under dogs for sale, if anyone is interested please let me know. I will be around my phone until sometime on Oct. 7th, then I will be away from civilization, elk hunting until Oct. 16. I am having my vet whelp this litter, so if something were to go wrong he would be there to make sure that everything is ok.

Mitch Solt