Good dog to start with?

z_foster22 · Post by **z_foster22** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:56 pm

Hi!I'm new to the forum, and welll... new to gun dogs all together. So I am basically wondering what would be a good dog for me to start with? And it be around $500?

up-hunter · Post by **up-hunter** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:04 pm

Well your going to have to help us help you. If you can tell us what your going to hunt and what your looking for in a dog as far as triats we'll beable to help you much more.

z_foster22 · Post by **z_foster22** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:07 pm

Quail and Chuckar would be the game. This will be my first gun dog so i need some help with what i should even be looking for

And any info on training would be apreciated. I know about some like all the house rules and common obediance and some field tecniques

Benny · Post by **Benny** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:46 pm

Foster,
welcome to the forum!
For dogs, you've got plenty of options. For quail and chukar I think you'll find anything from labrador retrievers to wirehair griffon's, will be acceptable. Every breed has some lovable characteristics and every breed has some undesirable characteristics.
As for any training help, I would also suggest you open this up in the "training" section of the forum and introduce yourself. Tons of help with all sorts of questions.
My first personal recommendation would be Joan Bailey's "How to Help Gundog's Train Themselves." Its a great beginning book for understanding characteristics of the upland dog and how to be prepared before you even buy the dog. It will really cater to someone such as yourself. It continues to move into basic to moderate training as well. From there, tons of books and DVD's get into the advanced stuff that comes after 8 months or so.

Good Luck!

z_foster22 · Post by **z_foster22** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:49 pm

Alright, thank you! So i've been looking at GSP and britts would either be a good beginer dog?

Benny · Post by **Benny** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:56 pm

I don't have experience with Britt's, but I've fallen in love with every one I met during hunting season and at our local hunting club. Excellent family dogs, too! As for GSP's, I vote them at 100% all the way for excellent family dogs with relentless tenacity for hunting and playing. Either way, be fully convinced that you'll have much work to do, and I don't mean for birds. With all good upland dogs, you're already getting the hunter (pre-packaged, whether you like it or not); you have to learn how to make them excellent pal's inside the home. These dogs have two gears: park, and overdrive. If you feel like a guy that is looking for 2nd gear, then lets keep looking. Otherwise I think you're in the right direction!

z_foster22 · Post by **z_foster22** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:00 pm

Yea my opa has a french brit and I love him hes a real good dog and compared to some of his hunting buddy's dogs his is the best of them all. But i think I will go with a GSP.

up-hunter · Post by **up-hunter** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:03 pm

I think either of those dogs would be great choices, i will also say that alot of pointers are run on quail. try to look around your area and find some breeders and talk to them, tell them what your looking for and a responsible breeder should be able to help you. Also see if there is a navhda club in your area, you can look on there site for where there chapters are they would be great people to talk and see lots of dogs.

Benny · Post by **Benny** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:07 pm

Sounds like you're in the club, Z

Check out that book if ya can, Alibris.com sometimes has copies for DIRT cheap. Take the time to do a little research, too. In my world, $500 could keep me floating for a while. In the world of GSP's, $500 will get you a descent backyard breed if you're lucky. BUT, if you can put in a few hours here and there snooping around on this forum and glad-handing with some breeders, you might be able to catch a litter soon for a reasonable price. Everyone besides me

is the one to talk to about that stuff.
Cheers!

z_foster22 · Post by **z_foster22** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:38 pm

Well I am 15 don't have acreage or hunting ground right now, but our house is up for sale and me and my mom will probably be moving to kansas or somewhere here with acreage. So i'll have about 3-4 months before I could even be getting a dog. But until then ill be researching ALOT.

Benny · Post by **Benny** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:50 pm

Well Z, for 15 years you sound like you know what you want, and you're relatively on top of your game. Be sure to keep the dog's best interest in mind. Like I was saying, these guys are a lot of work. The difficulty with you being a student (and in three years being a college student--hopefully), is that you've got large time constraints almost 5 days a week. For the developing years and the training years, that dog will look to you as his kin, and as his mentor. It will literally be putty in your hands, but the only problem is that if your model doesn't turn out right, you can't toss the putty and start again.
Don't take that as a complete disclaimer to not owning a dog. Just be conscious and caring about your decisions. In all honesty, even if you slip and fall on training, as long as you're there for that dog and give it the best years of its life, it will be a great pet. But it will take a lot more than that to make it a great bird dog AND pet.

texscala · Post by **texscala** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:51 pm

I have a French Britt and love the breed. My next dog will most likely be another one. I have found that they are easy to train but they are very smart.....almost too smart. If you make training mistakes or don't make them do what they are told they will try to walk all over you.

I also feel they can be a bit sensitive and you really don't want to yell too much at them as they love to please and can feel devastated if you go to far.

I don't think you will find a well bred FB for under $600 and could be looking at a lot more. The flip side is they are small and do very well indoors. I run mine 2 to 3 times a week and she sleeps the days away on the couch until it is time to run. She also only eats about 1 1/2 cups of food a day and does not make a lot of mess in the yard.

Good Luck.

z_foster22 · Post by **z_foster22** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:02 pm

Benny wrote:Well Z, for 15 years you sound like you know what you want, and you're relatively on top of your game. Be sure to keep the dog's best interest in mind. Like I was saying, these guys are a lot of work. The difficulty with you being a student (and in three years being a college student--hopefully), is that you've got large time constraints almost 5 days a week. For the developing years and the training years, that dog will look to you as his kin, and as his mentor. It will literally be putty in your hands, but the only problem is that if your model doesn't turn out right, you can't toss the putty and start again.
Don't take that as a complete disclaimer to not owning a dog. Just be conscious and caring about your decisions. In all honesty, even if you slip and fall on training, as long as you're there for that dog and give it the best years of its life, it will be a great pet. But it will take a lot more than that to make it a great bird dog AND pet.

Thats another reason i'd be getting a dog in 3-4 months cause ill be out of school and will have every second for him/her.... and when school started back up I could just go home drop backpack in room get him/her out of kennel and go out in back and train with him. Im up for the time it takes.

ScottG · Post by **ScottG** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:04 pm

z_foster, what part of Missouri are you from?

z_foster22 · Post by **z_foster22** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:09 pm

texscala wrote:I have a French Britt and love the breed. My next dog will most likely be another one. I have found that they are easy to train but they are very smart.....almost too smart. If you make training mistakes or don't make them do what they are told they will try to walk all over you.

I also feel they can be a bit sensitive and you really don't want to yell too much at them as they love to please and can feel devastated if you go to far.

I don't think you will find a well bred FB for under $600 and could be looking at a lot more. The flip side is they are small and do very well indoors. I run mine 2 to 3 times a week and she sleeps the days away on the couch until it is time to run. She also only eats about 1 1/2 cups of food a day and does not make a lot of mess in the yard.

Good Luck.

Ok, thanks for that info it will help.

I actually do know of a french brittany at this game farm here and its from the same dam from different litter of my opa's FB for $500 and my opa's dog hunts very well but was very skittish at the start but this dog is a little independent but ive hunted with opa and him and he seemed pretty well. hes not through training yet though.

but my opa has known this guy for a long time and is prolly getting a better deal than anyone else

z_foster22 · Post by **z_foster22** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:10 pm

ScottG wrote:z_foster, what part of Missouri are you from?

where there aint know birds but on game farms

Blue springs= just outside kansas city.

vzkennels · Post by **vzkennels** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:49 pm

Z you can buy some very well bred GSP pups for $500.

z_foster22 · Post by **z_foster22** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:57 pm

if seen some on gundogbreeders.com like 450 and 650 might think about checking into that.

vzkennels · Post by **vzkennels** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:04 pm

There are some listed below in Dogs For Sale here.I have 4 pups still available & they are bred about as good as you will find.I know you are not ready now & they will be sold by the time you are but there are some very well bred pups on this site.IMO we have some of the best & most knowlegeable breeders in the country right here.

ScottG · Post by **ScottG** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:12 am

Yeah, you may have to travel a little from Blue Springs to find wild birds. I'm from Columbia and often hunt wild quail on the family farm an hour away. There is a field trial near St. Louis in a few weeks that may be a good opportunity to watch some different breeds work. Here is a link to the announcement.

http://www.gundogforum.com/forum/viewto ... 90&t=17053

z_foster22 · Post by **z_foster22** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:58 pm

yea my mom and I would probably travel anywhere within a 100-150 mile radius

yea theres a game farm near

but also down by truman lake my dads friend has a place down there and ive seen some quail but barely any so wouldnt be to good to hunt it

z_foster22 · Post by **z_foster22** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:45 pm

I'll be getting a GSP. But I need to know should i get pup, started training, or finished training. I know its in the end up to me..... but would like yalls 2 cents. im up for the time, patience, ect. of a puppy just wondering should i go with a started trained or finished

ScottG · Post by **ScottG** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:56 pm

I think you'll have a tough time finding anything but a pup for $500. The increased training with older dogs demands a premium.

vzkennels · Post by **vzkennels** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:16 pm

A started dog will cost you at a minimum of $800 & finished upwards of $2000 both of those are on the low end.

jayhawkj · Post by **jayhawkj** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:38 pm

Foster, my recommendation would be to buy a well bred pup of the breed of your choice (brittany

) and then purchase the perfect start and perfect finish tapes. Love your dog ,make him your best friend and most of all, enjoy this experience. You will remember it the rest of your life. There are a lot of very good breeders on this site that can help you find a well bred pup. Good luck!

z_foster22 · Post by **z_foster22** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:51 pm

yea ill get a pup! It will be a GSP. Ill ask around and see if anyone knows of any good breeders in missouri or kansas.

jayhawkj · Post by **jayhawkj** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:36 pm

Foster, have you looked at the dogs for sale list on this site? There are some GSP pups and started dogs on there that may fit your price range.

Meller · Post by **Meller** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:58 am

Z if you would like to watch some GSP's in the field, I live close to Sedalia Mo. and would be glad to show,you how mine are in the field on wild birds.

z_foster22 · Post by **z_foster22** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:49 pm

Meller wrote:Z if you would like to watch some GSP's in the field, I live close to Sedalia Mo. and would be glad to show,you how mine are in the field on wild birds.

Ok, AWESOME! I'll talk to my mom some time and get back to you!

hunterw/newhobby · Post by **hunterw/newhobby** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:26 pm

Hello,
I'm up in St. Joe and last summer bought a GSP from a guy in Independance, MO. She has 9 FC in her pedigree so she isn't breed to bad but the important part is she makes me look like I know what I'm doing dog training wise. She's a great housepet and loves to look for birds. PM me and I can get you the guys name and phone number off her papers.
Ross

muddycreek · Post by **muddycreek** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:40 pm

If you are looking for a GSP check out John Prince at www.princesqualitygundogs.com . I have talked to John on a couple ocassions and he is a great guy to talk to, he really knows his individual dogs. I personally have never bought a dog from him, but based on our converstions and a couple of friends who have dealt with him, he is a good one. He is down in Pittsburg, KS and would probably be very willing to help you out.

hunt365 · Post by **hunt365** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:06 pm

sent you a PM

vzkennels · Post by **vzkennels** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:34 am

I 2nd John Prince he bought 3 dogs from me out of my last litter kept the female (Dixie),trained & sold the 2 males,(Tank & Jake) they are now on his Testimonial page.

z_foster22 · Post by **z_foster22** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:49 pm

what are some good books to read i went to the library and picked out a few I read in field & stream bird dog the instinctive training method by ben o. williams was a good one is it cause thats one i checked out

Benny · Post by **Benny** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:22 pm

Benny wrote: My first personal recommendation would be Joan Bailey's "How to Help Gundog's Train Themselves." Its a great beginning book for understanding characteristics of the upland dog and how to be prepared before you even buy the dog. It will really cater to someone such as yourself. It continues to move into basic to moderate training as well. From there, tons of books and DVD's get into the advanced stuff that comes after 8 months or so.

Good Luck!

and i'll add delmar smith by bill tarrant

Ditch__Parrot · Post by **Ditch__Parrot** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:59 am

z_foster22 wrote:what are some good books to read i went to the library and picked out a few I read in field & stream bird dog the instinctive training method by ben o. williams was a good one is it cause thats one i checked out

I have not read Ben O. Williams book ( yet ) but I sure enjoy his articles in Pointing Dog Journal

For books I'd have to say Wing & Shot by Robert G. Wehle

z_foster22 · Post by **z_foster22** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:43 pm

i'll just get the perfect start and the perfect finish dvds and then should be close to ready

i just remembered that at deer camp theres woodcock there so my try for some down the road.

SD Pheasant Slayer · Post by **SD Pheasant Slayer** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:23 pm

Foster,

Just thought I'd drop in my two cents here. Shorthairs and Britts are both great gundogs. I have two shorthairs that are a handful at times in the house, but well worth it in the field. My buddy has a pair of Britts and would tell you the same thing. In terms of choosing a pub/breeder, remember that the money you pay for a pup is a drop in the bucket of what you'll spend over the course of its life. You shouldn't have any problems finding a well bred shorthair pup for $500, but don't be afraid of stretchign the budget to $600-$700. Remember, you probably only get one shot at this dog and then have to keep it for 10-14 years (barring any unfortunate accidents or health problems) the last thing you want to do is go in halfway and wish you had just ponied up in the beginning. I certainly understand the budget thing - I'm a broke college kid, much like you may be in a few years. If you need to, save some cash and put it off a few months or a year to get the right pup for you. Finally, you mentioned that you're looking for a kennel in the 100-150 mile range - I strongly discourage this. You may find a breeder close, but by expanding your range out a little bit two a few hundred miles you'll increase your options dramatically - and whats a few extra hours of driving when your hunting for the next 10+ years is weighing heavily on the dog you choose? I wish you the best of luck and encourage you to rely heavily on this board as you move forward - there are some great people here that are more than willing to help you out. Finally, I applaud you for your maturity and diligent efforts in doing this the right way - there are a lot of gun dogs in shelters across the nation because their original owners weren't prepared/educated enough to make the right decision. Good Luck!

z_foster22 · Post by **z_foster22** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:22 pm

money wise this summer ill be working w/ dad mowing ($15 an hour) and im selling my lizards now (wont have to pay at least $50 o month on them on top of a dog) and im selling all my fishtanks so ill be bringing in about 500 and my bdays in may so there will be another 500 so theres 1000 not counting even selling my lizards and fish so theres another 150

so in may ill have around $1150, that will cover dog, spay/nueter, first round of shots, and some more things

we'll probably be able to travel farther than 150 miles but im still looking there might be one closer

vzkennels · Post by **vzkennels** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:29 pm

Read up & get some info on the spay,neuter,before you let a vet talk you having it done before the dog matures physicaly & mentaly.

z_foster22 · Post by **z_foster22** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:32 pm

will do.

z_foster22 · Post by **z_foster22** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:00 pm

this will be a house dog.... so if i get female may spay..... most likely wont nueter if male