Smelling a dead bird?

[GSPVIZ]

This might sound like a stupid ? but, why will a dog point a live bird but not point a bird that has just been killed. Is the scent that much different after the bird has been shot?

[h.q.s]

I think there is a difference. Like some young pups will point a dead bird, then start to flag, then pounce. Where asa n experienced bird d og will go straight for the retrieve. So I do think there is a difference, that the dogs can only know, especially an experienced bird dog.

[GSPVIZ]

Yea I mean I have came across some dead birds (who knows how long) and the dog will just smell them and be on her way. She doesn't point them. That is why I don't understand why some ppl save wings to train with.

[BoJack]

There isn't any difference between live bird and dead bird scent that I know of.some dogs that isn't trained to retrieve yet will point dead birds when they're downed.The first Setter I had wouldn't retrieve,but she'd find and point every dead bird for me.

[h.q.s]

Yea I mean I have came across some dead birds (who knows how long) and the dog will just smell them and be on her way. She doesn't point them. That is why I don't understand why some ppl save wings to train with.

Brings out puppies instincts to point, retrieve, I use wings a little bit to bring out the pups instincts. But I don't know anybody that TRAINS with them, like planting a wing and bringing the dog in to point it? That dosnt seem right. I don't know about that one.

[ezzy333]

Wings are used to entise a puppy to point but it is sight pointing and not smelling the wing. You can do it with a plastic bag or an old towel or whatever. And yes, I am sure they smell different. Sometimes even I can smell they are injured or dead. The body being punctured with BB's has to give off a bllood or body fluid smell which they learn after a few excounters normally.

JMO

Ezzy

[texscala]

I had my pup out on a hunt this year and she locked up solid. I tried to flush and nothing went up so I came back and released her. She took a few steps and locked up again. I tried again and nothing....after releasing her again she took a few steps and picked up a chukar that must have died during the cold night. She brought it to me and that was that.

When she was younger she would point downed birds but now she knows that after she has heard a gun go off or "dead bird" she is free to get in there and pick it up.

[Rick Hall]

Dead birds don't breath, live birds do, and I'd be very surprised if breath isn't part of the mix that tells an experienced dog what's up.

(Pardon me if someone else has pointed out the obvious, but my quick scan of the replies didn't catch it.)

[Will]

Dead birds don't breath, live birds do, and I'd be very surprised if breath isn't part of the mix that tells an experienced dog what's up.

(Pardon me if someone else has pointed out the obvious, but my quick scan of the replies didn't catch it.)

I think there's the key..."experienced" dog. My two year old will sometimes fail to mark a shot bird well and he'll run past it. He goes to search and points it on the find sometimes. I tell him "dead bird" while he's searching and command fetch when he points it. I think it'll all come together for him soon enough. He doesn't mis-mark very many and has a very strong desire to retrieve. I think when he associates the "dead bird" when searching after a shot, he'll just pick it up and retrieve.

[Ruffshooter]

Not only does a live bird have breath, the dead bird usually has something wrong with it, Maybe a bit of led , traces of gun powder and blood? Also a sick bird smells different as well, that (IMHO) is also why some dogs do not point or show little interest in week or sickly birds.

Example (dogs used for cancer detection, used for seizure predetection, bomb dogs, drug dogs etc.) A dogs sense of smell is far beyond any thing we could ever imagine without the reasearch.

[Benny]

Dead birds don't breath, live birds do, and I'd be very surprised if breath isn't part of the mix that tells an experienced dog what's up.

Through evolution and adaptation we very may well see pheasants holding their breath in the next century
Just kidding, I have no idea. I would however guess that if we're talking a bird that's been dead in the field for more than an afternoon they'll give off an odor that even I can smell. Decomposition is a nose-burner.

[gar-dog]

Dead birds don't breath, live birds do, and I'd be very surprised if breath isn't part of the mix that tells an experienced dog what's up.

Through evolution and adaptation we very may well see pheasants holding their breath in the next century
Just kidding, I have no idea. I would however guess that if we're talking a bird that's been dead in the field for more than an afternoon they'll give off an odor that even I can smell. Decomposition is a nose-burner.

Perhaps if we were to offer a pheasant a tic-tac that might make a difference. I think dogs just know, plain and simple. They can tell.

[ezzy333]

Dead birds don't breath, live birds do, and I'd be very surprised if breath isn't part of the mix that tells an experienced dog what's up.

Through evolution and adaptation we very may well see pheasants holding their breath in the next century
Just kidding, I have no idea. I would however guess that if we're talking a bird that's been dead in the field for more than an afternoon they'll give off an odor that even I can smell. Decomposition is a nose-burner.

We are talking about birds you just killed within the past few minutes. The dog can tell the difference at least with experience.

Ezzy

[aylaschamp]

IMO, Rick hit the nail on the head! Live birds breath is what most of the sent comes from. Ever tuck a head when planting vs. dizzying them? If you don't let them sit long enough the dog is much more likely to run past a tucked headed bird. Dogs, with experience, learn the slight variation in smell and adjust accordingly.

[WildRose]

This might sound like a stupid ? but, why will a dog point a live bird but not point a bird that has just been killed. Is the scent that much different after the bird has been shot?

Dead birds don't breathe. Live healthy birds don't have blood. Wounded birds have both breath and blood.

Wounded birds will also give off odors from the release of stress hormones.

Dogs with good noses and experience learn to tell the difference between the three and if they haven't been hammered too much in staunchness training will treat each of them differently.

[Sprig]

IMO, Rick hit the nail on the head! Live birds breath is what most of the sent comes from. Ever tuck a head when planting vs. dizzying them? If you don't let them sit long enough the dog is much more likely to run past a tucked headed bird. Dogs, with experience, learn the slight variation in smell and adjust accordingly.

this is an very interesting theory....it does make sense... i would like to add one situation that might mix it up a bit.....if breath is whre most of the scent comes from, how does a dog point a bird launcher where the bird has been released 20 or more minutes earlier? i have seen that happen countless times and makes me wonder about the "scenting" of live vs dead birds as I used to think live birds had more scent but now I am not so sure after seeing this phenomenon. i dont think we will ever fully understand what happens with bird scent and a dogs nose.

[aylaschamp]

Young or inexperienced dogs haven't learned the different scents. Look at Charlies point as well. He dove a bit deeper than I did. Eventually, dogs learn to discriminate the change of scent.

[Rick Hall]

Sprig, when you were working your pup on birds in launchers, you were also conditioning him to associate the launcher's scent with those birds, so there's that as well as residual bird scent to help trigger his points on empty launchers. "Nose" is a combination of both hardware (physical ability to detect scents) and software (mental ability to sort their meanings and respond appropriately), and that software is susceptible to programing.

[ezzy333]

Why I still think the smell of blood or body fluids is the main difference is a dog will find a wounded bird that is still breathing and will pick it up rather than point it. Both birds are still breathing.

This is an interesting discussion but one we may never know the answer to which also indicates it is probably a whole bunch of different ways the dog can pickup that we can't.

Ezzy

[rydaddy]

Newbie here, My not quite 2yr old Vizsla and I are on our first "season" of bird hunting. Mostly at preserves. Things I have noticed/learned about his pointing...

-When he is searching for a dead bird, I have seen him point them. This is typically only on those occasions where it has taken him a while to locate it. Kind of like the search went on long enough that he goes out of retrieve mode. It is not a very staunch point.

-Lately he has been pointing chukars from Distances that are making it hard for me to even find the darn things! I have started working on relocating him after these points.

-Planted pheasants (tucked) he is usually much closer too when he points them. And it is a different looking point then the "distant chukar" points.

-Running pheasants (b@stards!) are a different style of point all together. More like he stops dead in his tracks and is saying "wait a minute, I got it... or maybe I don't" These little guys are currently our biggest challenge.

[luke0927]

I thought it was the breath that gave the most destinctive scent.....like yesterday we shot a double of quail...one bird was dead went in got the retreive...the second bird the went up an pointed the bird and I thought that was strange....when i got close enough it was just crippled and still alive....so im assuming he could tell by the breathing of the bird or what...i just taped him on the head and said dead bird and he grabbed it.