Picking "the" pup from the litter

[runner]

I've finally settled on a breeding and have several wonderful GSP puppies to choose from. My wife is not a dog person and is gracefully, but reluctantly going along with this (our first dog together-- I've owned Vizslas in the past-- kenneled out back). 4 kids, it will be crated to sleep, can be indoors with us in selected rooms, and in garage to sleep/hang-out when we're not home, or possibly in a kennel out back, eventually with an invisible fence with 3/4 acre to roam.

My first love is chukar/hun hunting. Pheasants also. Grouse and quail occasionally. Will keep waterfowl open, but probably won't do much. Am interested in doing some testing (AKC and/or NAVHDA). I trail run a lot in the summer and the dog will get lots of exercise too.

Here are the pups I'm trying to decide-- (I wish I could take home 3 or 4!!):

1- 1- White/liver female-- love this dog. Most outgoing and independent. Always first one out, exploring, checking things out. Likes to come to you and be cuddled, but just for a minute, then doesn't want to be restrained, and wants to be off seeing what's going on elsewhere. Carries her head high, runs easy, medium sized head, long, thin. Has a nice brown patch down her front fore-leg and a couple other big liver patches, otherwise white with no ticking (very easy on the eyes). Inquisitive bright blue eyes. VERY CURIOUS. Seems smart. The owner/breeder was doing the whole wing on a string thing with the pups to show them off and show their instincts. She was the only one who very quickly figured out after pointing, that rather than coming straight at it and trying to pounce, it was getting pulled away and she realized she needed to quarter and circle around to approach from the other way it kept getting pulled away-- this was very impressive to me for some reason. However, after she realized she was just being messed with and could not get the wing, she lost interest and went off exploring.
Big concern: Is this going to be an escape artist, not wanting to be restrained in any way, too independent, etc.? Too much dog for a suburban situation? This is the one question that is keeping me from pulling the trigger on this one.

2- Medium sized male, kind of right in the middle in everything. Not one of the two big chunks. Will tussle and want to come out on top, but also will submit at times. Will come right up and be held as long as you want to keep holding him, but will run off when not being held and explore. Likes to grab a ball and carry it around. Very intense on the wing. Locks up into a very intense point, and despite it being very cold this AM when I stopped by, and him shivering hard, he would hold the point for a long time and was very intent on the game at hand. Couldn't get enough. Doesn't hold the head nice and high, but rather more down/tracking type (the father is more like this (wind/ground scenter), the Dam all air scenter).

3- Small, liver ticked female with only ticking except for her head (brown/liver). She's quite calm generally, and will lay there in your arms forever. Will tussle with others, but quickly lose interest and run off to a human or be by herself (favorite of wife and daughter). Moderately independent. Not too much into the wing on the string thing, but is VERY QUICK, and her gait is beautiful. She holds her head high and just glides along-- really a cruiser.

Tips? Thoughts? Thanks.

[3Britts]

Close your eyes and stick out your hand. First one goes home with you.

At this age it is as much a crap shoot as anything.

Best I can do if it is the breed and breeding you like.

[kninebirddog]

talk to the breeder as to which one displays the tmeper you liked over all
sometimes when a pup is tired the act one way but then up from a nap is more leader type

also how are they when you take the lead pup away

If this is the first pup for the wife I would seek the pup that is the easiest going in temperment sounds like they all have the desire to hunt

[Meller]

Just remember it will be more pleasant in the house if the wife gets the one she likes.

[sfellc]

Here is something to think about: I have taken the last pup of the litter 3 times, they are under 2 years of age,3 different litters, and 2 of them I have been offered 9K a piece for. The third hasnt had a chance to strut his stuff yet. IMO I really dont think it makes alot of difference in which one has a better personality when they are just born. I am a firm believer it is the socializing that they get after they go home, if they are from a good breeding.Just saying.

[aylaschamp]

Their personality will sometimes do a 180 on you so pick the one you think is purdy. I didn't catch the age of the pups? BIGGEST test to do to a pup is flip it over on it's back and see if it will relax. One that won't quit wiggling is gonna be a buthead to train! Puppies are a complete crap shoot and I firmly believe you make the pup, or at least 50% of it, by the way you bring it up.

[runner]

Their personality will sometimes do a 180 on you so pick the one you think is purdy. I didn't catch the age of the pups? BIGGEST test to do to a pup is flip it over on it's back and see if it will relax. One that won't quit wiggling is gonna be a buthead to train! Puppies are a complete crap shoot and I firmly believe you make the pup, or at least 50% of it, by the way you bring it up.

I guess when it comes down to it, I like the way the female looks (it looks strikingly similar to what I presume is your dog as your avatar (beautiful dog)), vs. the male, which is calmer, and also nice looking but I prefer the white/liver vs. the liver/roan. The fiesty female will settle down when you flip her over like that, but not as quickly as all the others, and not for as long.

Perhaps I was fishing for someone to say go for it with the one I truly love (#1 option), when in my heart I have a gut feeling any of the others would be calmer, and also great dogs, and my wife prefers the liver/roan coloring and has seen the pups and also doesn't prefer, but would tolerate the one I love, as the breeder's wife, who is with them the most, raised her eyebrows and exclaimed oooh, trouble when I said I really liked the female one.

And sfellc-- you pick 'em just like Delmar Smith (in the book how to train your gun dog the Delmar Smith way, he says exactly what you did-- look at the parents, then take the leftover from the litter-- of course he goes into a lengthy discussion of physical traits of the parents-- high tail insertion site, nice big chest cavity, way the legs align-- slightly bow-legged back legs being the best ('cow-hocked' in his words), tight paw, high nail insertion, brown eyes, bumper/ridge above eyes, big head (big brains), etc., etc. An interesting read for sure, and he certainly knows dogs (but some of the things are details I would have never thought of in a million years).

[Ricky Ticky Shorthairs]

Perhaps I was fishing for someone to say go for it with the one I truly love (#1 option),

OK, I'll say it.

Go with your 1st instinct. If there was something that made you say to yourself, "that's the ONE" about female #1, then that's the one. As far as being too much dog or whatever. You can always reel 'em in. Most pups will adjust their personality to their surroundings once the littermates are gone.

I've had over a dozen GSP's, and bred and raised litters, and found that the flip test doesn't always work, although it does help to calm puppies and allow you to handle them with more ease (put your hands on 'em) if you condition them to it. Some were easy to break and some not.
(Not trying to start somethin' Aylaschamp, JMO )

Just keep in mind, when you are out in the field you WILL be happier with the one that you REALLY want.
Your wife will probably love whichever one you get anyway, (maybe not you for awhile) but nobody can resist a pup.

Doug

[h.q.s]

You can't really tell a lot at the age they are at. So just get the one you like.

The dogs that are bold, confident, and independant, are the dogs that make the best bird dogs. Because they have the fire that the others may not have. You can teach a dog to be calm, but you can't train it to have that fire!

Good luck, and congrads on your pup!

[ezzy333]

No. 1 is the one I would pick but what I like and what you like may be completely opposite so I didn't comment. Have to admit though that my pick was based more on color but I do like how you described her as well.

Ezzy

[vols fan]

I kept the last pup after selling the rest. The pup i liked best has made a excellent grouse dog, the one i kept ( avatar ) just past his SH afew weeks back. who knows? Good breeding, hard to go wrong.

[Doodle]

Don't forget about the pack once you bring your favorite pup home.
You, the wife, and the pup. You may want her to participate in
some of the training. It is much harder if the pack is you, your
hunting partner, and then the wife.

[runner]

Don't forget about the pack once you bring your favorite pup home.
You, the wife, and the pup. You may want her to participate in
some of the training. It is much harder if the pack is you, your
hunting partner, and then the wife.

Seems like sage advice. I think hoping for training help may be a little much. My 14 y/o daughter and 11 y/o son have both just finished reading Joan Bailey's book "How to help Gun Dogs train themselves". They're both very excited and would love to be involved in the process. I'm hoping to figure out ways to get people involved without having "too many cooks in the kitchen". They've both already bought into the conditioning, and not giving a command you have no ability to enforce. We'll see how it goes-- I'm looking forward to the training as it grows.

Perhaps another topic, and better addressed in training, but anyone have thoughts on best approach with a puppy? I've read Joan Bailey's book and was going to follow those general guidelines, but I've also read the Bill Tarant book on Delmar Smith's method. I understand the whole chain gang and things, but wonder if 1)it will really be necessary (it would be staked alone), 2) would mixing and matching methods be folly, and 3) will my neighbors call the Humane society when they see a little pup staked down near the river walking path in the backyard? I think I'll start with the gentler "conditioning" methods and see how the dog is responding after a couple months.

[kninebirddog]

thing with the chain gang it is a start and a stop to a session
it allows a dog or pup to let a good little session to absorb

but PICK on method sense you are starting out that is the best thing to do ..don't mix and match cause each method has a progression and until you know what to expect and what you want mixing and matching will only confuse things for you and the dog

i get to see this with people who come out here with there dogs

we are a pheasant preserve and trust me the dogs where the owners are not consistant are very evident

and be sure every one is on the same page

also thing about the stake out though you have one dog right now you can make a make shift set up you do not want this to be where the pup dog has a bunch of chain to play and run around the whole purpose of the time on the chain gang is chill out and don't waste energy

it isn't about leaving them there 24/7 either it is for training
after that it is the back yard or kennel or where ever

here is a pup waiting her turn to go play



then here is when we are on the road at a trial with a bunch of dogs

[runner]

A little bit at the breeder's gentle 'nudging', I went with #2. I've been back a couple times to watch them around the yard, and had them chasing a wing on a string-- I know, I know, most say it's a gimmick, but I didn't have a live bird.

The good looking female has calmed down a little in the last 1.5 weeks, but still is a little ADHD type-- short, intense interest, then off to find something new or different.

The one I went with is very calm when held and will really relax. However, he is intense with the wing. He just wants to keep going at it. He's got a very stylish point that he'll hold until you pull the wing away then he'll chase. All the pups are pointing, he is just one of the most intense ones and the one that wants to keep going and doesn't lose interest. He's not as pretty to look at, but I also didn't want to worry about the whole female thing-- when to spay, should you spay, what if she goes into heat during hunting season, etc... I've read Joan Bailey's book and will be following that for the first bit, mixing in a few of the techniques from the Delmar Smith method, the other book I'm going to follow.

Anyone read Joan Bailey's new book, which from the review, seems to take over after you've conditioned the pup through that first hunting season and helps you work towards finishing it?

We'll see how it goes-- very excited-- he'll be coming home in 2.5 weeks (at 10 weeks).

Here's the pedigrees of the parents:

http://www.akc.org/cgi-bin/store/view.p ... id=4084334

http://www.akc.org/cgi-bin/store/view.p ... id=4084330

[GsPJustin]

I see that you chose, but just my 2 cents.

If you want a female go with #1 if you want a male go with #2 as far as attitude goes. #2 would probably end up being a better fit for a "first dog" for you wife. If it indeed stays mellow and easy going happy do be doing whichever thing comes about. That's how the male I have is now. Color is not a real big factor for me. However I do like the ticked dogs. Based from what you said though, any of the 3 would probably be a good dog. If I were in your position I would have picked #2.