Stud Dog Contract?

[Ruffshooter]

I am going to breed my GSP Mercy this late spring to a nice male. He has not bred. He is a NAVHDA UT Prize 1. He is a good hunter Strong water dog, father is Shooting Stars Sonny (Shooting Stars Son of a Gun). I am requiring he have hips tested prior to any agreement to breed my dog.

Questions:

Is there a form type Stud Dog agreement?
How would you and what would you put in an agreement?

I would like to produce a fair and equitable contract so there are no discrepencies or problems in our deal.

Stud Fee: I am thinking either $400.00 or a pup if at least three or four pups are born. I am keeping the pick. he gets next, I have one confirmed buyer, (Mercy's Moms owner) and interest from others.

The Stud needs to be on my premisise for the duration and at least two days before the (proper days of proposed copulation).

The dog would stay for the Seven day period and three ties completed.

Any help or advise would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Rick

The person is an Aquaintence from my local NAVHDA club and a good guy. Just want thing fully understood and following standard Stud dog proceedures or agreements.

[Brittguy]

Here are some thoughts to cover.I have found stud fees to be at least the price of a puppy , sometimes more.If the stud owner settles for a puppy, I would expect that he would want his choice ( which still may not be your choice).Stud fees are usually paid at the time of mating. If there are no puppies a return service is free. Decide what to do if this happens and stud is not available.Can you substitute a bitch ? I think most stud owners would not agree to having their dog at your kennel for the period of time you wish, but whatever the both of you agree to will work for you, also brucellosis testing.

[Southwind]

cckgundogs here on the forum (aka Chisholm Creek Kennels) has a stud contract for his two field champions. You can view one on his site.

[Hotpepper]

You would accept the responsibility of having the stud dog in your care on your premises?????????????????????? Not with my boys!

I have never seen or heard of a stud dog being taken to the bitch for breeding and as an owner for both would not agree to it. Hips, health certification previous and recent brucellosis test for the bitch, negative and currect canine herpes test for the bitch as well. Transportation costs, the costs of maintaining your dog at the stud dogs' premises, payment and gaurantee's are all part of normal agreements. Some charge for picking up from the airport, not unusual.

If a long distance is involved, shipping costs of the bitch's travel, "vet costs" and FedEx shipping for collected and chilled semen and shipping, then implanting would all be a part of the "stud fee agreement" and would be paid by the owner of the bitch.

Trying to be as realistic as the real world here is, "The Business of a Stud Dog" and what was spent by his owner for him to arrive at where he is - that is what it is about. The cost of making a field champion and to get him to that point is very high, and to be able to recoup some compensation is where the stud dog owner is. I know of people who have paid for a house with the fees from the dog making puppies, that does not happen very often.

I know of contracts that would not and will not accept a puppy as payment even from a national champion. I do hope this brings you to a little better knowledge of what you want to accomplish. As an owner of a stud dog (deceased) who will one day be in the Hall of Fame and was bred less than 10 times, let me tell you the labor of love is where it is for me as the cost is almost not believable for a working man.

I do believe that the cost of a puppy if $500 or better is very fair. Recently a great friend brought his little girl (gsp) over and got a tie and had a litter of 10 puppies, 5 boys and 5 girls, he asked me what I needed for a fee and I told him that I know his little girl (dog) and his wife and 3 small children at home and there would be no charge for the service. He could hardly believe what I told him. I knew where the puppies were arriving into. At 8 weeks he called and had a spectacular puppy for me and insisted I take it home. I did. The rest brought $600 and if he had 20, could have sold them all. 15 weeks old now and on fire.

Pepper

[Ruffshooter]

Okay,
One, The stud dog is an hour away. I thought it would be easier for him if the dog were here. I know the owner. ( He may not want the dog to stay either. Just thought It would help.
Two, I thought it would be easier to get a tie if the dogs were more comfortable. Mercy gets a little nasty at times.
Three, I am asking questions to do what is fair and right. The $400 is a low number for a stud dog and I know they can and do go higher I have seen $1000 advertised. (Probably even higher. I figured where the dog has never bred before, this price was a fair starting point. Where as there is no track record of production. (I will increase to $500)
Four. The Stud owner has never done this also. So again I am trying to research and do this for both of us.
Five, I am not doing this for money but to get me a pup hopefully as good as Mercy.
Six, The Stud owner has not decided yet if he wants a pup or fee.
Seven, Mercy has been bred just once before and only produced one pup. (probably poor timing) but her mom produced 6 to eight pup litters. (I do not want to pay $500 for nothing)
Everyone, thinks that they can get a pup that is as good as what they have. I believe if we lived in an area more condusive to dog games and I played these games earlier in life; You would not be hearing about Mercy just from me. That is how strongly I believe in this dog. She has succeeded convincingly at everything she is put to. I also knwo the Stud dog, I near owned him as well and alway had a great feeling about that dog and am right about him. This is why I am doing this breeding not to make money. Would I like to at least get my cost out of the deal SURE!

Anyway, I do appreciate the advise and the things to think about. Am still willing to hear more.

Thanks
Rick

[nitrex]

Just a few thoughts...

1. I realize you are friends, thus it may be a good thing to have a contract. But in my dealings, the stud owner dictates the who, where, how many times, and cost of breeding. If the stud owner has no clue, it might be nice for you to make suggestions and come to an agreement.

2. Most people I have dealt with will tell you to transport the female to the stud. I think this actually helps with am aggressive (nasty) female as she is now on his "turf."

3. IMO
we all are a little kennel blind!

Nitrex

[Fireside]

One, The stud dog is an hour away. I thought it would be easier for him if the dog were here. I know the owner. ( He may not want the dog to stay either. Just thought It would help.

It is customary for the bitch to come to the stud, but whatever is agreeable to the two of you is fine.

Two, I thought it would be easier to get a tie if the dogs were more comfortable. Mercy gets a little nasty at times.

She might be better behaved on his turf, but maybe not.

Three, I am asking questions to do what is fair and right. The $400 is a low number for a stud dog and I know they can and do go higher I have seen $1000 advertised. (Probably even higher. I figured where the dog has never bred before, this price was a fair starting point. Where as there is no track record of production. (I will increase to $500)

Again, the $$ of the stud fee is an agreement between the two of you... and no one else

Four. The Stud owner has never done this also. So again I am trying to research and do this for both of us.

If neither one of you have any experience with breeding, you might want to talk to someone that does, it is not as simple as putting the two fo them together and letting nature take it's course.

Five, I am not doing this for money but to get me a pup hopefully as good as Mercy.

Have you considered how you will market the rest of the litter or will you be keeping them all?

Six, The Stud owner has not decided yet if he wants a pup or fee.

That's fine

Seven, Mercy has been bred just once before and only produced one pup. (probably poor timing) but her mom produced 6 to eight pup litters. (I do not want to pay $500 for nothing)

Not unusual to have a set minimum number for the breeding to "count" whatever you two work out... no fee or a repeat breeding if the litter doesn't produce the minimum number

[Ruffshooter]

Thanks all,
I had not thought about her being less agressive on his turf. Makes sense. She is not normally agressive but when she's not ready she lets the sutor know so in no uncertain terms, the rest of the time she is a tramp.
I have been the "head guy" holding her for the last breeding.
I have three folks right now that definately want pups from her. I will be getting more in place in the next weeks. She should not come in to heat until end of May or begining of June.

Howie: Regarding Penn Hip, Personally, I would never breed to anything less a .48 in the GSP, My Mercy is .28 and .30 If I remeber right. I have done Penn Hip for the last nine years (My little Stella FB has .64 and is displastic. (mild to moderate, she was spayed). The stud is scheduled for his pen hip. I am also going to offer to pay for the DNA for his dog. (because I want it). Maybe one of these pups fits your kennel plans.

[ACooper]

If you know the guy and you are friends/acquaintances, will a hand shake not work?

[Greg Jennings]

Contract or no, both male and female should get a current brucellosis test.

[Ruffshooter]

Brucellosis test is certainly in the plans.

I find no matter how good of friends you are, it is always best for any type of deal involving responsibilities on both sides to have it written. I am not looking to be to formal but still I dentify each persons responsibilities and agree to it and under stand our and each others parts.

Thanks for the help.
Rick

[ezzy333]

Brucellosis test is certainly in the plans.

I find no matter how good of friends you are, it is always best for any type of deal involving responsibilities on both sides to have it written. I am not looking to be to formal but still I dentify each persons responsibilities and agree to it and under stand our and each others parts.

Thanks for the help.
Rick

This may be true but I have a few questions?

Are you prepared to go to court over breeding a dog if you feel the contract has been broken?

Are you saying you cn't trust your friend without something in writing?

Is there a problem when something has to be in writing rather than a hand shake?

I have had a lot of dogs bred and also bred a lot for someone else and have never had a written contract. I know I grew up in a different time but just never felt a written contract was necessary for a 3 to 500 hundred dollar event. I will have to admit many of those breedings were done for 50 dollars but that was a lot when you only had 50 in your pocket.

My personal opinion and that is all it is worth but I don't think I would use a dog that belongs to someone I feel I would need a written contract to believe or trust he would liveup to his word.

Ezzy

[vzkennels]

Exactly Ezzy when the day comes I have to write a contract every time a dog comes here to be bred or need one to buy or sell a dog I QUIT !! My word & hand is my contract take it or leave it !

[Ruffshooter]

Okay EZZY: You are over blowing it. Perhaps I should not use the word contract. Words spoken can be misinturpeted. YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT OF THIS WHOLE POST. (CLARITY AND MAKING SURE HE AND I HAVE DONE WHT WE NEED,TO DO A SAFE BREEDING, PROPERLY). I am not looking to go to court. This is not a matter of trust but a matter of clarity. I expect no more than to just breed my dog taking precausions that each of us has done the proper testing of our dogs and proper payment be done. Thats it. No more no less. If some one does not want clarity, then they are NOT WORTH DEALING WITH .

By the way, I have done a lot of work in the past (General Contractor) with a hand shake, and got screwed and ate the cost for work. When things are clear then there is no confusion or turmoil FRIEND SHIPS AND CUSTOMERS ARE HAPPY AND ALWAYS CALL YOU BACK AND YOU CAN HOLD YOUR HEADS HIGH AND SPEAK WELL OF EACH OTHER.

Thanks for your concern and help.

[vzkennels]

Ruff that is kinda the point, if your not willing to go to court that written contract is worthless.

[sfellc]

I am not a pro, or even have much advice on breeding, although I do have a couple nice dogs available. I will say this though, it would be nice to do the job on just a handshake, but it is also nice when you have something in writing that both of you agree to, and there is no misunderstanding on what is expected either way. I just rented a piece of equipment to a friend, and in his mind it was a rent/purchase. Because of the "misuderstanding" in my mind, on his part, the friendship is nearly over. Although even ig there is a problem, and you may not pursue anything in court, and would possibly be nice to have something written to fall back on.

[vzkennels]

Ok let me put it this way how many of you know where a written contract has done any good if one party doesn't live up to it with out going to court? I'm not arguing about the contract in it's self just the fact that it still is only good as a persons word unless you use it to go to court when it's broken.

[Ruffshooter]

One more time. I misused the word contract. Simply because I felt a contract that may be a form type may have the information for me the bitch owner and for he the Stud owner. I am looking for guidelines for he and I so we do a fair and safe breeding so we have good communication and understand what is expected.

By the way, A hand shake and verbal word with witness's is a contract.



Thanks, for the help from those that helped with good information. Also the link that was presented for someones kennel does have contracts with information that does help and keeps it pretty simple.
I am done.

[3Britts]

Ruff,

Here is what I do currently.
Stud fee is $500 or pick of the litter. I take first pick.
Female comes to my place or semen is sent to bitch's place. This depends on the distance.
The female must be ofa good or better and be Brucellosis tested neg. Must be a very recent test.
I guarrantee at least 2 pups or there is a repeat breeding. If pick is the form of payment, I take the pup from the first breeding.
I put out my hand if everything is agreeable and shake.
Its that simple and I've never had a problem because I only deal with people that I have gotten to know through trial, hunting and shows.

[ezzy333]

I wasn't finding fault with you but just wanted to fully understand why you felt it necesary to have a contract. I did think when you said contract that you were talking a written formal signed contract so I am sorry if I misinterupted what you meant.

Sounds like you are getting everything in place before the event.

Ezzy

[mountaindogs]

Good luck with the breeding.