beep or not to beep?

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cheezehead
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beep or not to beep?

Post by cheezehead » Thu May 14, 2009 9:06 am

hi, i'm new to this board, and new to pointers. i've had flushers for the last 20+yrs. i'm taking my 8mo britt to a pro trainer, as i don't have the time or access to birds to train him. the trainer recommends a beeper(hawk screech on point)for hunting. i hunt grouse in northern wi, and november pheasants in s.d. how do you guys feel about beepers? in the past, quiet was good, i'd tape the dogs tags to the collars. the trainer tells me, as the dog learns, they will hold the bird until i get to him. based on an initial eval, they figure he will want to range from 100 to 200yds. that's why they recommend the collar. they also said that excessive use of a loud collar can hurt the dogs ears. this pointer stuff is all new to me, and i'm having a hard time believing that these birds will really hold for me. i've seen it on tv, but i've never seen a pointer hold a pheasant 100yds away, and still find the bird when we got there. any comments are appreciated. thanks!

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Re: beep or not to beep?

Post by sledcat » Thu May 14, 2009 9:33 am

if you want to find you dog or know when he goes on point use the beeper in point only mode. I also hunt Grouse in WI Pheasants on game farms and in ND. If i am in thick cattails and the dogs are working close I turn the beeper off, but when my dogs are going big in the rolling hills on ND you will want it. (my gsp's pined a bunch of pheasants in wheat stubble last year and were wearing beepers)One thing would make sure of is that i could turn the beeper on and off from the remote. Tri tronics and Dogtra both have this option not sure about the others.
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sledcat
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Re: beep or not to beep?

Post by sledcat » Thu May 14, 2009 9:37 am

1 more thing I use a bell in the grouse woods along with the beeper in point only mode. I personally hate hunting with people that have there collars in track mode. just my opinion!!!
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Re: beep or not to beep?

Post by BigShooter » Thu May 14, 2009 9:46 am

I like quiet hunting the best. It will be very helpful to you if you know whether the dog is on point and where it is located especially in the woods, tall grass or in a cattail slough. Some grouse and more pheasants will hold during the dog's point, but the sooner you get there the better. IMO the best current solution for quiet hunting is to use the Garmin DC-30 GPS unit for dogs. It's not cheap at $450 to $499 but you will know where the dog has traveled , whether it's on point, how far away and what direction it is from you. This system is not fool proof but works pretty well.

I have used a remotely controlled beeper system for a few years. You can set it to be silent while the dog is moving but if the dog stops for a point or for a bathroom break the beeper goes off. The disadvantage of not setting it to beep while the dog is running is often under windy conditions in N.D. you will not know where the dog is and if it gets far enough away you won't hear the beeper when the dog goes on point.

Pheasants & grouse go on alert just by hearing a hunter slam a truck door or hearing people talk to one another. We've always filled out using the beepers but personally I think many birds start walking away when they hear the beeper sounding off. I also worry about a continuous, loud beeper eventually affecting a dog's hearing. I know they can't hear you as well if you call out to them when the run beep is on. Do a search of previous threads about this subject on this forum for additional opinions & information.
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texscala
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Re: beep or not to beep?

Post by texscala » Thu May 14, 2009 12:49 pm

When I started hunting my pup two years ago I thought she would be a close working dog and I would always know where she was. After 2 seasons of trying to keep track of her I bought and inexpensive (and ugly) beeper collar. While I would much rather hunt in silence I find that the peace of mind that a beep brings is worth the less than desirable noise. It is also nice to know when the dog goes on point and get there instead of wondering around until I find her.

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Re: beep or not to beep?

Post by jt807 » Thu May 14, 2009 3:32 pm

I wouldn't hunt without a beeper. I have the TT G3 Upland. I can turn the beeper on and off from the remote, and when I do it makes a series of beeps.

I usually leave it on in point only mode, so that when she points, I will know it right away. As soon as I hear it and know where she is, I turn it off.

You could leave it off (you have to turn it on at the collar, and then off by the remote), and then it would only make sound when you wanted it to. To me, being able to find my dog is more important than a missed bird or two.

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Re: beep or not to beep?

Post by cheezehead » Thu May 14, 2009 11:04 pm

a friend at work has a broken tri tronics ecollar/beeper collar that he is going to give me. the beeper works just fine. so i guess i'm going to try it and see how it works. this way, i'm not out any money. i just bought a new dogtra collar for my flusher last fall. kinda hard to drop a bunch of money on a collar right now with having to pay for a month of training also. thanks for the advice. i plan on checking around here quite a bit.

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Re: beep or not to beep?

Post by fase3 » Fri May 15, 2009 12:28 pm

My GSP lady hunts quail and woodcock. I use a TT G2 with her. For quail where it is more open I use a small swiss bell to keep track of her as much as possible and if she is on point where I can't see her I turn the beeper on long enough to lacate her. For woodcock here in south La. where it can get so dense I can loose her in a heartbeat I leave the beeper on in point mode. Works for me.

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dawgmama
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Re: beep or not to beep?

Post by dawgmama » Mon May 18, 2009 7:44 am

We used bells for years, and while it is more traditional, we found that they were really hard on the dogs ears. The dogs, in their teens seemed to have more hearing loss than the dogs that we used beepers on. We have a 13 year old Wirehair now, that only hunted with a beeper, and while her hearing is selective at times :lol: , she can still hear me open the cookie cabinet.

We have a Dogtra train and beep, and really, really like it. We hunt grouse in northern Wi, and can run with no beep and just push the locate button to find the dog. On the Setter, we use the point mode, because she doesn't hunt as close as the Wires. I think the sound of human voices scare the grouse more than the point signal cause they hold until I come stumbling (grumbling @#### darn prickers, darn trip roots argh! :wink: ) up to the point.

If your friend gives you the beeper, you can use both collars on your Britt, one for locating, one for corrections, should you need it. That's what we do, we couldn't afford to buy two T&B collars and we usually hunt two dogs at a time.

Have fun with your Britt, you're gonna love hunting over a pointer. Grouse don't play fair, and having your Britt point 'em for you will level the playing field for you, a bit. :lol: And yep, they will point and hold 'em for you till you get there, it is just awesome!
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BDBUzi
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Re: beep or not to beep?

Post by BDBUzi » Mon May 18, 2009 9:22 am

No beeper for me, totally silent.
I use the Garmin.

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Re: beep or not to beep?

Post by BigShooter » Mon May 18, 2009 10:27 am

dawgmama wrote:
Have fun with your Britt, you're gonna love hunting over a pointer. Grouse don't play fair, and having your Britt point 'em for you will level the playing field for you, a bit. :lol: And yep, they will point and hold 'em for you till you get there, it is just awesome!
Good post overall.

The one issue that can't really be proven or disproven is how many birds walk away before your dog gets a chance to point them. When the grouse stick around you get to see "the dog point and hold 'em" ....what you will likely never know is how many grouse walked away before you & the dog got to them. Now you and the dog walking through a slough or the woods make enough noise without a beeper on to get the grouse or the pheasants moving but I still prefer silent running if possible. I believe I have noticed a difference in the how quickly and how far pheasants move away from a bell or a beeper, but that is merely my own perception. As I said before I've used a TT remote beeper for some time using the run tone a fair amount and we fill out most every day unless the shooters are really off their game that day. :oops:

No matter what equipment or dog you can afford, just getting out and enjoying the day with man's best friend can be enough to "take your breath away". :wink: :D
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Re: beep or not to beep?

Post by ACooper » Mon May 18, 2009 10:48 am

I prefer to hunt without a beeper or bell but sometimes it they are needed.

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Re: beep or not to beep?

Post by Shadow » Mon May 18, 2009 12:09 pm

agree with dawgmama- used Lovetts 6in1 beeper for years- still got one in rough shape- but the Garmin came out- so I was right there to get one of the first- both mine have it on almost all the time- they don't stick underfoot-

besides- it's kind of neet to see one on point and wonder how soon the other is coming arround to join

I'd use your freinds beeper- see how you like it- heck- I'll keep my old one just for when someone is always hacking on his pointer- will put it on his or go a different way

never found that that point beep caused quail, pheasants, or Ruff's to skeedadle- think the Britt's caught on and actually were more cautious when real birdy- sort of pointed from furthur away- smart

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Re: beep or not to beep?

Post by SD Pheasant Slayer » Mon May 18, 2009 1:37 pm

I'm a big believer in the beeper but I don't use it the way most do. I worried about the hearing damage as well and with late season roosters, any sound is a negative. However, there are times when it doesn't take long to lose a dog in thick cover and Cash is usually inside 100 yards for most of the cover we were hunting. What I do is leave the beeper set to range mode where it beeps every few seconds and then just turn it off from the transmitter. If the dog disappears for more than a couple minutes I just turn the beeper on from the transmitter and then back off until I locate him. This works well as it minimizes the obnoxious sound and I still have the peace of mind of knowing that I can find my dog anytime. As far as the effects on birds, I find that if I use the beeper and find Cash on point the birds are usually still sitting tight. However, any bird that sits long enough with Cash on point for me to have to use the beeper is usually pretty committed to hunkering down rather than running. I've never seen a bird flush in front of his points when I've turned the beeper on. Just something for you to consider.
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dawgmama
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Re: beep or not to beep?

Post by dawgmama » Mon May 18, 2009 1:41 pm

No matter what equipment or dog you can afford, just getting out and enjoying the day with man's best friend can be enough to "take your breath away". :wink: :D
so true, BigShooter, there is just nothing like hunting with your favorite human and canine buddies. :D

Up in northern Wi where we hunt, there are a lot of wolves. 21 dogs were killed by wolves from April to October. Granted, many of them were bear hounds(poor things), but.... being a protective mommy I don't want any of my girls getting slaughtered by a wolf! :evil: I have one Setter that is a real barn-burner so she is not always in sight, so I need to be able to hear her, and I kind of hope the sound of the beeper will scare/confuse the wolves. Heck, even the Wirehairs, who hunt closer than the Setter are hard to find in the cover we hunt. I guess I'd rather miss(pun intended :oops: )a few grouse than feed a wolf.
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Re: beep or not to beep?

Post by BigShooter » Mon May 18, 2009 2:36 pm

dawgmama wrote:I think the sound of human voices scare the grouse more than the point signal
Shadow wrote:agree with dawgmama- never found that that point beep caused quail, pheasants, or Ruff's to skeedadle- think the Britt's caught on and actually were more cautious when real birdy- sort of pointed from furthur away- smart
If my perception is correct the noise from a bell or a constantly turned on run beeper is an issue with birds moving away before the dog has a chance to point them. The birds that don't move off get pointed. For the third and I hope final time - I have used my TT G2 Upland just to locate or just to beep on point or with both the run and point modes turned on and have always had enough points to fill out each day. I let my dogs range and have always relied on a bell or a beeper to locate a dog. I also believe both the bell and the beeper in run mode have long term effects on a dog's hearing. Hunting silently with the Garmin is a real pleasure. Before the Garmin I did not hunt without a remote beeper or even earlier - a bell.

We have plenty of brush and timber wolves in Minnesota as well. I guess I'll have to get a pack with a few Irish Wolf Hounds,Bulldogs and Rottweilers to train up as body guards for the GSPs when they hit the woods. :twisted: The one thing I've wondered about is whether a beeper will keep wolves away or alert them to the presence of a dog. You know, like grizzly's running to the sound of an elk hunter's shot in the fall is like ringing the dinner bell to the bears.

I have seen educated pheasants flush 250 yards in front of both the hunters and the dogs with run beepers going. Last fall I watched a GSP on point well off a group of pheasants in tall grass at the end of a fence line. The dog didn't move a muscle but the birds flushed before I arrived. What made them the most nervous? Was it the grass (instead of cattails) cover, the hawk screeching beeper, the dog or the human 250 yards away moving in that direction - I dunno - something to think about.

To me silence is golden and the quality of the hunting experience is more important than the harvest.
Mark

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dawgmama
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Re: beep or not to beep?

Post by dawgmama » Mon May 18, 2009 3:24 pm

We have plenty of brush and timber wolves in Minnesota as well. I guess I'll have to get a pack with a few Irish Wolf Hounds,Bulldogs and Rottweilers to train up as body guards for the GSPs when they hit the woods. :twisted: The one thing I've wondered about is whether a beeper will keep wolves away or alert them to the presence of a dog. You know, like grizzly's running to the sound of an elk hunter's shot in the fall is like ringing the dinner bell to the bears.
Awe gee, BigShooter, just when I thought it was safe to go out in the woods! :roll: :D Hopefully Remi the Setter can outrun those big bad wolves! I sure don't wanna be ringing the dinner bell for 'em! I like the bodyguard idea. My friend's Rottie is hopelessly in love with my Setter, so I'm sure he'll volunteer to protect her. :)

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Re: beep or not to beep?

Post by Shadow » Tue May 19, 2009 9:27 am

educated or not- some birds will set tight some will not- where I've been chasing pheasants for the past two seasons there seems to be some nice points right by those water irrigation pumps- meaning- some don't mind the noise- little beeper going off isn't to much to scare them- there are a few that even feel that beepers sort of makes birds sit tight- to each their own-

Got a picture and two fellas who didn't believe a rooster would hold when the beeper was going off- my female was out about 300 yards in a cut wheat stubble field-
no way were they heading out there so off I went- layed the gun down- took two pictures as I moved arround- then came in from in front of her- 8 shot brought the nice rooster down- so I stayed out there- shot two more- then we found a covey of quail- this was in the afternoon going on sundown- next day the two guys were willing to try to keep up with her :lol:

I've seen quail and pheasants get up for no reason- seen them hold real tight for no reason- one has to assume they're wild and have learned to do the unexpected- seems about right

knee high grass when the time is right- lots of birds aren't running arround- when the time is wrong- lots of birds moving arround- one should think about that-
give me a mile by mile grass field close to feed where birds are normally found- I'll spend hours- if one thinks a beeper will scare them I'll put the ole beeper on- no other way to locate a staunch pointing dog- unless it's a boot polisher-

so I say- give it a try- but also be open minded to the fact that not every staunch point is a bird- called hunting

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Re: beep or not to beep?

Post by cheezehead » Tue May 19, 2009 11:03 pm

i like the idea of using the remote to activate the beeper when i loose track of the dog. my friend gave me the beeper, but the ecollar didn't work. i sent it out yesterday to the collar clinic. i hope they can get it working. i have found with my lab and springer that the silent approach works best. i'll tape their tags to their collars, and try not to say anything, and walk slowly. i can't tell you how many times i stop for a second, and a grouse will flush right at my feet. now that will get the blood pumping!

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