Small gundogs

[sgc]

I'm new to this site & was hoping to get some opinions: What is a smaller dog breeding, that can be used to hunt birds & is being bred to hunt, but is also a NON-HYPER house pet, AND that hunts close & is biddable. The non-hyper house pet part along with the hunting close part & being biddable is very important.

[Killer Instinct]

Field Bred English Springer Spaniels.....

[Sharon]

The perfect dog? Any dog under 1+ years will be active in the house. They are supposed to be. Their "hyperness' will depend to a great degree on the amount of vigorous daily exercise they get.
Lots of possible small gundog choices. A Brittany Spaniel would fit the bill or...........See the link for other choices. These are not all small.( The fact that these are CKC registerable is not my point.) I just wanted you to get a bigger picture.

http://www.calgarypointingdogclub.com/p ... reeds.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaniel

PS Not all of the dogs shown in the links are proven gundogs.

[BDBUzi]

Check out the Braque Du Bourbonnais (BDB). They are a pointing breed imported from France.
For me, size was secondary to all of the other traits you mentioned. But I've seen some tiny female BDB's (~30 lbs.).

My male is around 50 lbs. and he'll be on the upper range of the standard when fully grown.
VERY biddable, and he's an angel in the house. I have small kids as well and he does awesome with them.

My pup is out of Elk Run Kennels in Idaho (http://www.elkrunkennels.com).
But there are a few other breeders in the U.S: Rufnit Kennels (a member of this site), Cactus Country Kennels, and Aspen Ridge Kennels to name a few.

[solon]

For the flushing breeds, a small Springer or an English Cocker would fit your requirements. Since they are flushers, they are trained to hunt within gun range. I have no personal experience with these breeds. It seems from comments on boards like this one that the ECS is a great little dog, but also a handful and might be too active for what you want in your house dog. A less common versatile flushing dog is the Wachtelhund. This is a tough German breed that is spaniel like. I have seen a few of these dogs and they are medium sized. The Boykin Spaniel also looks like a good choice, medium sized. With all these breeds, but maybe especially with the Boykin, one would want to be sure the hip quality data is favorable.

For pointing breeds, the Small Munsterlander is one I do have experience with. They are not really that small, a female will be around 40-45 lbs in most cases and males are 10% or so bigger.
The French Brittany and the smaller American Britts could fit your criteria. There are also English Setters and maybe pointers that run quite small. I have heard of female setters as small as 25lbs with cover dog breeding. I have a setter pup that I think will mature at the 35 to 40 lb range. She is a real nice pup. A runt of a litter of any of these breeds may turn out to be smaller than average for the breed and runts can be every bit as good as hunters as the rest of a litter, assuming they have no physical issue causing their small size.

Solon

[sgc]

A Brittany was the choice we had originally made until we heard a few comments on their hyperness. Now we're re-thinking that decision. Is this hyperness true with all bloodlines of Brittany's ? (I also heard that their range can be 100 to 200 yards, which surprised me. That is too far for what I want).

[RayGubernat]

sgc -

Any decently bred bird dog and I do mean ANY...will be full of energy until it is about two. If it is not, it is very likely it ain't got what it takes.

People have differing conceptions of what is active and what is hyperactive.

Most of the Brittanies I have seen are what I would call "exuberant" and looking to have fun. That is part and parcel of their personality. If they are bored and ignored, they can definitely do some serious digging. That is not hyperactive to me, that is normal for that type of dog.

I have trial bred pointers and they will tear around the yard when let out of their kennels, to blow off steam, but once they have exercised, they take turns jumping up in our laps to get cuddled and petted. If you saw them screaming around the yard you would say they were lunatics, but if you saw them after exercise, you would say they were pretty mellow. Some folks think pointers are all nut jobs, but they actually tolerate boredom in a kennel better than most other hunting dog breeds, I think. I do not have dogs in the house, but I am quite certan that any of my dogs(all are adults) would be just fine in the house.

Bottom line, if you are looking for a counch potato, don't get a hunting dog puppy. If you do want to get a hunting dog and want it to be mannerly in the house, get an older dog.

RayG

[sgc]

Ray, thanks for the input. That was helpful!

[sgc]

Ray, I got to thinking; I've never seen a hyper Lab. Do Lab's make decent flushing dogs? (Probably same comment for a Golden).

[bobman]

boykin spaniel fits all your criteria they are calm dogs in the house close working natural hunters

[Shadow]

A Brittany was the choice we had originally made until we heard a few comments on their hyperness. Now we're re-thinking that decision. Is this hyperness true with all bloodlines of Brittany's ? (I also heard that their range can be 100 to 200 yards, which surprised me. That is too far for what I want).

you'd be better off spending some time at known respected breeders of Americna Brittanies then listening to opinions

FC lines means they have fire, the nose, the natural ability- also- calmness- most respected breeders are breeding within the standards of field and show- so hyper is only in how the pup is raised say from 7 weeks on-

range is what you want- suppose you'd be surprised to know inside 200 yards I've never had- and I've been hunting them in quail and pheasants for years

take about any pup at 7 weeks, constantly hack on it to keep it in and you'll have a close ranger/bootpolisher- far harder to make a close ranger get out there than the other way arround- same thing goes for that same pup in the yard, house, vehicle, anywhere- never allow that pup to own you and do what it wants- doing what you want from day one is critical

if you'd see mine in the house you'd maybe say they had no hunt in them-

[Sharon]

sgc -

Any decently bred bird dog and I do mean ANY...will be full of energy until it is about two. If it is not, it is very likely it ain't got what it takes.

People have differing conceptions of what is active and what is hyperactive.

Most of the Brittanies I have seen are what I would call "exuberant" and looking to have fun. That is part and parcel of their personality. If they are bored and ignored, they can definitely do some serious digging. That is not hyperactive to me, that is normal for that type of dog.

I have trial bred pointers and they will tear around the yard when let out of their kennels, to blow off steam, but once they have exercised, they take turns jumping up in our laps to get cuddled and petted. If you saw them screaming around the yard you would say they were lunatics, but if you saw them after exercise, you would say they were pretty mellow. Some folks think pointers are all nut jobs, but they actually tolerate boredom in a kennel better than most other hunting dog breeds, I think. I do not have dogs in the house, but I am quite certan that any of my dogs(all are adults) would be just fine in the house.

Bottom line, if you are looking for a counch potato, don't get a hunting dog puppy. If you do want to get a hunting dog and want it to be mannerly in the house, get an older dog.

RayG

Exactly. Well said. If you think a Brittany is too "hyper" then you haven't seen energized. Yes, labs have normal exuberant energy up to about age 2. I don't think you are going to find what you are looking for in a normal hunting dog puppy. It's like looking for a baby who doesn't cry.

[sgc]

Thanks for all the info. I'm curious now, too, about a 200 yard ranging dog. I could see (maybe) using it on the great plains, but unless you have a GPS attached to it, it seems like you would be hunting after the dog all the time rather than the dog hunting for you. I can't see using a dog like this in the Grouse woods of the north. Maybe you're talking about field trial dogs ???

[texscala]

Look into the French Britt. I was looking for the same characteristics a few years ago and decided against the American Britt but after being told to look into the French Britt we found just what we needed.

My dog lives indoors and is pretty calm until we hit the field, then she is all business and has plenty of go. My pup is usually right at 30lbs and does not eat much and loves kids. She can flat out find birds too.

If you want a bit more size the BdB would not be a bad option.

[RayGubernat]

sgc -

I have heard form several folks that the tail on a young lab can clean off a coffee table like nothing else in this world. One swipe and everything is on the floor. I stand by my statement about sporting dog puppies. They are going to have energy to burn and you are going to have to deal with that in some way.

As far as their hunting ability...If labs do not make decent flushing dogs... then there are quite a few thousands of hunters out there who have it wrong.

Seriously, there are more labs in the uplands than just about any other breed, probably because you can also waterfowl with them. They do just fine from what I can see and hear. But they ain't small. Not by a long shot.

I would suspect Goldens, if field bred, would also make excellent flushing dogs. They are, in terms of number of dogs, a much smaller breed and it might be harder to find a good hunting Golden than a good hunting Lab. It is my understanding that they make very good upland dogs the best being better than labs, but that labs make better water retrievers.

I have no direct experience with them, but am basing my comments on statements form owners of both breeds. There are others far more quailified to comment on flushing dogs on this board than myself, so please read my comments with this caveat.

RayG

[Shadow]

Thanks for all the info. I'm curious now, too, about a 200 yard ranging dog. I could see (maybe) using it on the great plains, but unless you have a GPS attached to it, it seems like you would be hunting after the dog all the time rather than the dog hunting for you. I can't see using a dog like this in the Grouse woods of the north. Maybe you're talking about field trial dogs ???

could see maybe on the plains! interesting- boot polisher wouldn't have much chance except to back

you're missing the point- any dog can be made to stick arround your feet- you start when you first get the pup at 7 weeks- never let it get more than 50 feet from you- by the time it's a year old- it will know nothing else- course you wouldn't want it in the woods with one that can range and has a nose and holds point

I've had mine in the big woods and the plains- untill the Garmin came out I used a beeper on point mode or a bell- main thing- can the dog use it's nose and hold point-

think you really want a flushing dog that stays in gun range- btw- I grew up with Goldens in N Minn- they don't need to be from field trail lines- just stay within gun range and flush everything- heck- almost any dog can do that- also- I've used my Britt's on ducks, geese, and doves- but never fur

[3Britts]

I have three Brittanys. All live in the house with us and are easy to live with. Add that to their ability to work birds and you have the best of both worlds.

[Shadow]

3britts- sure do like that pedigree of King- nice Britt's
sister to Aux-Arc's Mark is the one in front on point- small one in back is her pup-

back in the 70's they used to say being a house dog ruined them, they had to stay in a kennel- I've never believed that-

manners

[3Britts]

Thanks.
I've heard the same about house dogs, but have never noticed any difference to those kept in kennels.
A good gun dog should be able to tell the difference between a couch and a quail.

[Shadow]

manners- I feel having them in a kennel, dog box, staked out, or loose in the yard is part of the whole package- when let loose sure they tear arround- same as when first let inside- but they know the game and quickly settle down- then you let them out- you don't want to be standing in the way-

think some see it as the dog should always be in control- try to demand to much- not allow the dog to let loose- no way would I expect them to listen to me right off- that's why when I let them loose I don't talk or control- let them burn off some steam

course I'm not hacking on them in field either

[ezzy333]

manners- I feel having them in a kennel, dog box, staked out, or loose in the yard is part of the whole package- when let loose sure they tear arround- same as when first let inside- but they know the game and quickly settle down- then you let them out- you don't want to be standing in the way-

think some see it as the dog should always be in control- try to demand to much- not allow the dog to let loose- no way would I expect them to listen to me right off- that's why when I let them loose I don't talk or control- let them burn off some steam

course I'm not hacking on them in field either

I have to agree. I don't expect more from the dogs than I would a human. And that is how it is.

Ezzy

[Shadow]

Hi ezzy- Chief"s Brittanies had a firebreather who was also a kennel/house dog- loveable fella- TV star awhile back- would fetch the TV remote, watch TV

Think what some don't realize is there are breeders who breed large and small Britt's just for that choice- but are quite carefull to stay in DC lines that have manners- meaning- from a young age it's all there just has to be understood and brought along easily

I do chuckle about Dog Whisperer- because owners let their dogs control them- they need help- imagine it would be the same with kids

too strict- you got a problem- not strict at all- you got a problem

[3Britts]

manners- I feel having them in a kennel, dog box, staked out, or loose in the yard is part of the whole package- when let loose sure they tear arround- same as when first let inside- but they know the game and quickly settle down- then you let them out- you don't want to be standing in the way-

think some see it as the dog should always be in control- try to demand to much- not allow the dog to let loose- no way would I expect them to listen to me right off- that's why when I let them loose I don't talk or control- let them burn off some steam

course I'm not hacking on them in field either

I have to agree. I don't expect more from the dogs than I would a human. And that is how it is.

Ezzy

The funny thing is that even when you expect more from a human than a dog, the dog will still give you more.

[Streenie79]

The funny thing is that even when you expect more from a human than a dog, the dog will still give you more.

Ain't that the absolute truth!....

Streenie79

[Shadow]

The funny thing is that even when you expect more from a human than a dog, the dog will still give you more.

Ain't that the absolute truth!....

Streenie79

and more laughs also- built another quail pen and set it right in line with the other one- I leave the door open with a liitle bird seeds and crushed dog food- quail come visiting- couple males will go in and eat- this morning Shadow went in- locked up- he saw a quail walking towards him- I got the camera- quail turned to go arround the other side- Shadow came unglued- tried his darndest to get back out and find the quail - picture was slightly blurry- I was late-

ahhhhhhhhh heck- the quail is back- got to go bring Candy and Shadow in

comical- Candy was inside- Shadow was on top- quail was watching from the other side of the fence-
wonder if a beeper would have scared that quail

[gar-dog]

My Brittany is a fun, active dog. She is great in the house and with the kids, and also does plenty of laying around and cuddling. Hyper is not a term I would use to describe her.

As for range, the dog hunts closer in woods and heavy cover than in fields. She wants to hunt but also wants to be around me. Point is they adjust. Also, the amount of range you allow is largely dependent on training.

We love ours and wouldn't trade her for the world.

[Shadow]

nice looking Britt- nice pedigree

think maybe someone can get the idea Britt's aren't a Hyper Breed

agree with you on likes to hunt but likes to be arround- mine don't prefer to be out far so long but to swing back in- big time field trialing different- I like mine swinging back arround so always have encouraged it from the getgo- pup has a mind of his own- is testing me- so far just letting him go till he feels like coming arround- might do a bit of modifying on that- so far no problems- dry country- he needs water

strange thing- female is keeping in closer- not sure where that came from- but I've always liked one running bigger than the other

[Ecw21]

My Britt will be 3 in September...still young but chilling out a bit. She is very good living in my relatively small apartment...sleeps a lot of the time. But she is always ready to get out and about...Rarely hyper but can get a bit zany when she needs some exercise. I think that comes with the territory. She is 35 lbs, sheds relatively little. I concur with everyone else who emphasizes talking to breeders. Chloe is not what most would call a boot polisher...she is happy to get out there 250 yds. She does shorten up quite a bit in tough cover and in the grouse woods...but not much. Depends on what you are comfortable with.

Most important to me is that she is great in the house and is a very good city dog...Plus I run her at least an hour a day. That probably helps

Good luck.

[1vizsla]

sgc,
If you have never seen a hyper lab then they were either old or very well trained. Come to a dock dog event and I can show you about 75 very hyper labs at any given time. I would take the advice given here on the smaller breeds but remember all dogs need excerise and training.

Carla

[Shadow]

Most important to me is that she is great in the house and is a very good city dog...Plus I run her at least an hour a day. That probably helps

.

I lived in town till just recently- would take my Britt's for a walk arround town at 6:30am- without a leash- but they also knew we'd hit the outskirts where they could open up- folks used to ask- how- manered and laying the ground work- course cats got them a little excited- but that was part of the game

btw- see you got Microdot in there- word is she was a firebreather

[Shadow]

Carla- agreed- I've seen enough of wired up ones- good point you made