DRAHTHAAR????

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adam.WI
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DRAHTHAAR????

Post by adam.WI » Tue May 19, 2009 11:04 pm

Hey everyone, I was curious what some opinions on drahthaars are. I'm simply researching, not looking to get anything tell I'm back in WI next year. I hunt a lot of pheasants,ducks, and geese in the fall, and rabbits in the winter. I also hope to get in to some grouse up in the north woods as well. From what I've read they would be about a perfect match. I currently have a britt that I love cause shes a sweet heart and a great upland dog, but looks at me though I'm crazy if somethings in the water. In the end she will get it but she's obviously not a waterdog, much less a WI late fall water dog. I knew all this when I got her and wouldn't trade her for the world but plan to add to the pack. I know the drahthaars are an intense gun dog and understand what that brings with it. I do still have a couple concerns with drahthaars:

-family dog? I have a kid on the way and want a dog like my brit, extremely loving and loyal, I've heard mixed reviews on this
-deer? I know the breed can be trained for blood tracking, but will that translate in to chasing deer during a bird hunt
-cats? the wife has a furry demon (a cat) and as much as I would love to see that thing chased and tormented that would make my life less than pleasurable
-anything else that ya'll think I might have over looked

I appreciate any help from anyone
Adam

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MB
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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by MB » Tue May 19, 2009 11:39 pm

adam.WI wrote:Hey everyone, I was curious what some opinions on drahthaars are. I'm simply researching, not looking to get anything tell I'm back in WI next year. I hunt a lot of pheasants,ducks, and geese in the fall, and rabbits in the winter. I also hope to get in to some grouse up in the north woods as well. From what I've read they would be about a perfect match. I currently have a britt that I love cause shes a sweet heart and a great upland dog, but looks at me though I'm crazy if somethings in the water. In the end she will get it but she's obviously not a waterdog, much less a WI late fall water dog. I knew all this when I got her and wouldn't trade her for the world but plan to add to the pack. I know the drahthaars are an intense gun dog and understand what that brings with it. I do still have a couple concerns with drahthaars:

-family dog? I have a kid on the way and want a dog like my brit, extremely loving and loyal, I've heard mixed reviews on this
-deer? I know the breed can be trained for blood tracking, but will that translate in to chasing deer during a bird hunt
-cats? the wife has a furry demon (a cat) and as much as I would love to see that thing chased and tormented that would make my life less than pleasurable
-anything else that ya'll think I might have over looked

I appreciate any help from anyone
Adam
Drahthaars can definitely be good family dogs. They have a calmness to them that I never had with my FT stock labs. From what I have heard, the majority of DD's in Germany are in the home.

I have no problems with them chasing deer when we bird hunt and they do encounter them frequently.

Cats? That's the tricky one. Although some people do have cats and drahthaars that coexist, it's still thought to be the exception. I have an outdoor cat that my dogs will not touch if I'm around but I have little doubt that if I wasn't the cat would be dead. Luckily I think the cat understands that as well.

Other than that, if you think you'll like a Draht I'd bet money that you will. I do!

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by Wagonmaster » Wed May 20, 2009 6:24 am

I belonged to NAVHDA back in the late 70's, early 80's. When I joined there were at least six wirehair pups and their owners who were also new. Lots of hopes. Of those, only 2 dogs were still living two years later. The others bit the kid, growled at the wife, or went after the postman, and were put down. Of the remaining two, one was mine and one belonged to a friend. His dog was very large, strong, and uncontrollable around strangers. It spent most of its life in the kennel, being put down at around age 8 after neutering, etc. did not help. He went to another breed (setters). My dog was good, but I trained him alot. He was always a one man dog, not easy for others to handle.

If you are a very good trainer willing to put a great deal of time in, training the dog, go for it. If you live in the country, don't have neighbor kids to worry about, and don't mind if your dog alerts on anyone who drives up, they are fine. If you are an indifferent trainer, they are not a family dog. But I have to say, the wirehair I had was one of the best hunting dogs I have ever owned.

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by Elroy's Bandit » Wed May 20, 2009 8:36 am

I would be a bit hesitant if someone is telling you a Wirehaired is a great "family dog" and good around kids. I have heard stories and not just isolated . I have a friend who got one as a pup, trained him , tested him through the German Test , etc. etc. The dog was rock solid in the field & trials. Just this past fall at about 4.5 years old he attacked his wife! This women fed , walked , and spoiled that dog for 4+ years, and unprovoked, he bit her severly in the face , it was real bad, but they were both thankful it wasn't one of the kids. Her face was a mess. Prior to this , the dog was never very friendly around strangers , and was quite independent and stand offish with people. This is JMO, but thought I would put it out there from personal experience.
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MB
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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by MB » Wed May 20, 2009 9:08 am

Would you like to hear stories of GSP's that I know that bit people??? I know of several but I still don't discount the breed. :wink:

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by Wagonmaster » Wed May 20, 2009 9:21 am

You can tell all the stories you want as far as I am concerned. It is not the breed, it is the closeness of the dog to the "old lines" and the purposes for which they were bred. New buyers don't get it, but these are dogs that were bred to be bay dogs for boar, and dogs that would take down stags. If you want to rank the breeds made for these purposes, the Drahthaar/GWP is in my experience a bigger risk than the DK/GSP, but that does not mean DK/GSP's are not affected. There was a breeder of GSP's some years ago, now gone, had National Champion trial dogs, very nice knowledgeable fella. Advertised that his GSP's would "protect the family."

It is this simple. If someone wants to put in a great deal of time training the dog and not let up over the years as the dog gets older, if someone is willing to keep the dog under control at every moment during that time, this would not be a bad choice. But it takes a good and dedicated trainer.

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MB
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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by MB » Wed May 20, 2009 9:32 am

I agree that you need to have a handle on your dogs, but I believe that applies to all breeds.

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by JakeDD » Wed May 20, 2009 9:41 am

Adam - what you see in some of the replies above is typical stereotypes about GWPs/DDs. Note that John's reply involved 6 dogs almost 30 years ago and nothing in recent years. In all honesty, 30 yrs ago, John's experience may have been fairly common, but I can tell you that today it would certainly be the exception rather than the rule. There has been great progress made in breeding for solid temperaments in the VDD. I can't speak to the GWP side since I'm not involved there.

I have personally owned 1 GSP, 1 GWP, and now have 2 DDs - all have been in the house family dogs with 3 young kids, and all have been good family dogs. The most upredictable of the group was the GSP. She was much more aloof than any of the others, and we had to keep a close eye on her with the kids. If you raise your DD as part of the family, they are very loving and loyal companions. I don't think they fare as well when they're just kennel dogs, but that's just my opinion. They really desire that connection with their people.

The DD would be an excellent choice for the type of hunting you described in your post. As for your questions:
* Blood tracking and running deer are completely unrelated, and the dogs know the difference. Blood tracking is a very direct task and the dog won't just take off when it hits deer scent.
* Cats: I agree that it's a crap shoot. If the dog is raised side by side with the cat, they can get along famously. That can all end in a flash, however, given the right circumstances. That being said, most v-dog breeds worth a lick will present the same problem. My GSP was a cat-hating machine and any time she got a chance, she'd take after one.

There is a very strong/active DD group in WI. I would suggest you get out and attend some VDD events (training days, tests, breed shows, etc.) and see the dogs firsthand and what they are capable of doing. DD owners love to talk dogs and seeing them will answer any questions much better than any internet forum.

Good luck with your search.

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by adogslife » Wed May 20, 2009 9:41 am

If it's not DKs being knocked it's DDs.
My guess is that some don't like the idea of money going to other venues and non AKC,AF breeders.

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by ezzy333 » Wed May 20, 2009 11:20 am

adogslife wrote:If it's not DKs being knocked it's DDs.
My guess is that some don't like the idea of money going to other venues and non AKC,AF breeders.
This sounds like someone looking for an excuse to knock the people who made some valid statements that a newcomer asked about and should know. Lets just stick to the topic. There has not been a single comment made by anyone on this thread that was knocking any breed. All breeds have their good and bad features depending what you want in a dog. And many of the DD/GWP's do have a different personallity that may be a problem to a new owner and they need to know that before they buty rather than after.

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by Az Draht » Wed May 20, 2009 5:36 pm

Wagonmaster wrote:. It is not the breed, it is the closeness of the dog to the "old lines" and the purposes for which they . If youwere bred.
Adam,

When you read a Drahthaar pedigree, there is a notation that shows the initial motherline (shorthair, pudelpointer, etc). If you want a DD that isn't people sharp, stay away from the ones that go back to the shorthair (kurzhaar).

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by adam.WI » Wed May 20, 2009 10:31 pm

Not saying that I've been swayed because I certainly have not but what might be some other breeds that I could/should look in to. I have a few others in mind but would like to see some suggestions.

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by vikings269 » Thu May 21, 2009 12:39 am

I would look strongly into the chesapeake bay retriever, or just get a lab.

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by fuzznut » Thu May 21, 2009 3:36 am

GWP's are not DD's. Talk to any DD person and they will make that emphatically clear to you. Read their web page and it's posted on there.

I won't speak to DD's since I don't own them, however, I've owned GWP's since 1980. Back then, I would agree with Wagonmaster's asessment of the breed. They were tough, they were aloof, they were very much hard headed one man dogs. No one in their right mind would approach a GWP that they didn't know very well or without the owner being there.

Today they are a much different animal. GWP breeders have worked to take that edge off, and they are a much calmer, MUCH easier to train breed. Teach a GWP something, and they rarely forget it. Oh they may screw up, but they won't forget.

They are extremely devoted to their families, and yes, they are a protective breed. This is something I tell every potential new GWP owner. Don't allow a young GWP to make the decision to be protective without your permission, or you could have a devil on you hands. Teach them right, make them understand that No means NO and you will have no problem. Remember, they are German! This is not a great kennel dog, not a dog to take out only during the season, or on the occasional weekend. This is a breed that lives to live with you and yours.

Kids, mine love kids. I've never had an issue in the almost 30 yrs and a dozen or more GWP's. They seem to have an infinity toward them. But, remember that protective spirit in them. They must learn that all kids in your yard are fine as they will try to protect their kids if they perceive a threat.
Not a breed for everyone for sure, you must be as devoted to them, as they are to you. You must have a sense of humor to live with a GWP, they will do the darned silliest things just to get a rise out of you....it's a game they play.

Training, be fair, be consistent and don't be in a rush. This is a breed that takes some time to truly mature, most don't really come into their own till they are 4 or 5 yrs old. Most of the really great dogs in our breed have won Championships when they were 9 and 10 yrs old. They also live forever!

If you were searching for a GWP, do the research, meet as many as you can... talk to the breeder to understand their position on the breed. Don't take the word of folks who have never really been involved with the breed. Old stories die hard, dogs bite, all dogs, all breeds. Poorly trained dogs bite, poorly socialized dogs are a pain in the butt, no matter the breed.

DD's are a whole nother can of worms, you would be best to speak with DD owners as well.
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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by Jagerherzen » Thu May 21, 2009 9:52 am

Adam wrote:
Not saying that I've been swayed because I certainly have not but what might be some other breeds that I could/should look in to. I have a few others in mind but would like to see some suggestions.
The Deutsch Langhaar is another excellent versatile breed, particularly excelling in tracking and waterwork. Similarly to the DD and DK, the DL has 120+ years of performance proven bloodlines. If the dog does not meet certain minimum standards defined by the parent breed club in Germany, its offspring cannot be registered. Every breed has it's pros and cons. DLs make both excellent hunting dogs and family companions.

When you narrow down to a breed you will want to look at the strengths and weaknesses of particular lines. While doing that and talking to many breeders, a suitable match with the promise of being the best dog you ever had may be in your future.
Good luck with your search.
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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by Merle » Thu May 21, 2009 5:59 pm

If you are interested in a drahthaar then you really should spend time with some. Training days are an excellent way to meet handlers and see the dogs work. Your concerns are some of the same ones I had when I was looking at different breeds.

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by Tas » Thu May 21, 2009 6:08 pm

Adam,
I've had DDs for 18 years, owned over 15 DDs. I attend many VDD events as well as NAVHDA events.

My DDs have yet to eat a bite anyone, despite my boys rough handling of dogs in their younger years. My boys have pulled beards, used miscellaneous body parts for handles, sat on, inspected mouths, eyes, ears, etc. and the dogs have never had the slightest negative reaction. There are DDs with poor temperaments, just as there are goldens, labs, gsps, etc with poor temperaments. Kids are not a reason to avoid DDs.

Bloodtrailing and chasing deer are two separate things. A few DDs have a ton of tracking instinct. These DDs are the most apt to trail deer for exceptionally long distances. Dogs with too high prey drive are apt to chase deer long distances. The average DD will only go a short distance then return. Most can be trained to leave deer alone.

I advise against keeping a DD and a cat together. It is not worth the risk of coming home to a mess or worse yet having to witness and try to stop it.

As a grouse hunter I would be far more worried about getting a top grouse dog, which is hard to find, then anything else. If you take your grouse hunting seriously, whatever breed you chose, I advise buying from a grouse hunter that is highly critical and objective about his dogs.

I suggest spending time with breeders and their dogs. Go hunting with them if possible.

Good luck in your search.

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by Georgia Boy » Thu May 21, 2009 6:38 pm

When I read some of the post on here and it is hard not to respond. I have had DD's for the past few years, I have 6 kids from the ages of young adult down through two 8 years olds with out any problems. People are so quick to repeat something they have heard with out any first hand experience. The DD breeders have made tremendous progress even in in the past 10-15 years. My advice is if you are serious go and watch the dogs at a test this fall, if they fit the bill for what you are looking for in a dog, great. If not at least you can make an intelligent, educated decision or post on a bird dog forum.
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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by Dennmor » Thu May 21, 2009 7:32 pm

Jagerherzen wrote:Adam wrote:
Not saying that I've been swayed because I certainly have not but what might be some other breeds that I could/should look in to. I have a few others in mind but would like to see some suggestions.
The Deutsch Langhaar is another excellent versatile breed, particularly excelling in tracking and waterwork. Similarly to the DD and DK, the DL has 120+ years of performance proven bloodlines. If the dog does not meet certain minimum standards defined by the parent breed club in Germany, its offspring cannot be registered. Every breed has it's pros and cons. DLs make both excellent hunting dogs and family companions.

When you narrow down to a breed you will want to look at the strengths and weaknesses of particular lines. While doing that and talking to many breeders, a suitable match with the promise of being the best dog you ever had may be in your future.
Good luck with your search.
I agree!
I would also draw your attention the German Longhair Pointer. Particularly ones from the German Longhair Pointer Club of North America. This is a group of breeders that broke away from the German Club. From what I understand, one of the main reasons was to have better control over the kind of dog being bred here in the States. The idea is that the German club wants to maintain the game dispatching abilities of the German Longhair. The GLPNAs commitment is more towards the North American hunter and his needs. Their idea of the perfect hunting dog is a high end versatile hunting dog that is a total cream puff in the home.
This is my take on the situation and I should warn you of my bias. I am picking up a female GLP this Sun.! :P
I have been working with Cortney Schaefer of vom Coraschatten Kennels in WI.
A nicer more knowledgeable person you couldn’t find!
Here’s a link to their puppy page, http://www.coraschatten.com/CurrentLitter.htm have a look!
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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by lightonthebay » Fri May 22, 2009 7:36 am

My Hanna (DD) is only one year old, However, during her short life she has displayed a penchant for gentleness toward children and adults. She has a displayed a willingness to obey and to please.

I agree with Fuzznut that SOCIALIZATION is of primary importance for any dog. Get them out in society early and often and you will be less likely to have problems with normal society.

Hanna has not killed the cat yet. She does point the cat and you can see she wants it to run. I guess what I get out of this is that she may not have an immediete desire to kill the cat but she might not be able to contain herself when the instinct compells her? I don't really know. I lean toward the belief that she will not harm the cat. She plays with a her pug friend often and the play sometimes turns toward some awful scraps but even though it sounds and appears as though she is tearing the flesh from the beasts of heck, she never has caused any damage. The pug comes imediately back to harrass again. Hanna pulls her punches very well. I hope she continues to do so!

I purchased Hanna from Paul Trout (Vom Orion Kennels).

I think painting an entire breed with a broad brush may not be very useful. There is alot an owner can do to mitigate problems before they become too large to handle. I would get any breed you initially wanted and be a good teacher to ensure its long life.

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by fuzznut » Fri May 22, 2009 12:47 pm

Any pet of mine that killed another pet of mine would probably be looking for a new home very quickly.
As far as I am concerned, any dog that lives in my house had better learn not to harass, harm or kill my pet house cat. No more than they are allowed to harass, harm or eat my furniture, shoes, and walls! As puppies they learn to leave the cat alone. They are not to chase it, mouth it, or stare at it. It's really not that difficult to do. You break your dogs off deer, rabbits, skunks and other things you don't want them to mess with, the family cat should be no different. You see them starting to chew your couch, I'll betcha you come unglued on them. Same treatment for messing with cat.

They are not the slobbering, blood thirsty, crazed animals many make them out to be. If they are, they were not brought up correctly or they were bred poorly.

Now, put a cat out in the field and the dog comes across it... that may be a different story. Same for ground hogs, squirrels and any other furred creature you have not taught them to leave alone.
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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by dogirl » Sun May 24, 2009 5:13 pm

fuzznut wrote:Any pet of mine that killed another pet of mine would probably be looking for a new home very quickly.
As far as I am concerned, any dog that lives in my house had better learn not to harass, harm or kill my pet house cat. No more than they are allowed to harass, harm or eat my furniture, shoes, and walls! As puppies they learn to leave the cat alone. They are not to chase it, mouth it, or stare at it. It's really not that difficult to do. You break your dogs off deer, rabbits, skunks and other things you don't want them to mess with, the family cat should be no different. You see them starting to chew your couch, I'll betcha you come unglued on them. Same treatment for messing with cat.

They are not the slobbering, blood thirsty, crazed animals many make them out to be. If they are, they were not brought up correctly or they were bred poorly.

Now, put a cat out in the field and the dog comes across it... that may be a different story. Same for ground hogs, squirrels and any other furred creature you have not taught them to leave alone.
Fuzz
I agree...dogs are great discriminators. They learn "context" very well. I have two very sharp GWP's in the house with a couple of G. Pigs. I taught them that the G. Pigs were off limits from the get go. No problems.

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by Shadow » Sun May 24, 2009 5:39 pm

you might also think about getting a male FC bred Brittany- pick him at 7 weeks- take him swimming right off- might surprise you but there are some fine water retrieving Brittany's- it's all in how you progress with the pup from the start- besides- you have a Brittany- brace of Britt's is a fine thing- and except for the water thing you seem pleased with yours- jmo

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by adam.WI » Sun May 24, 2009 7:03 pm

Hey I appreciate all the help.
vikings269 I love labs and there will always be a place in my heart for them but I really like pointing dogs, and I know there are pointing labs that do great but I feel the likely hood of getting one that doesn't have that pointing instinct is higher.
jagerherzen thanks for the suggistion I took a look at them and am very interested. They seem to fit what I want quite well. I'm going to take a look at some next week. They sure do look like little sweethearts.
Shadow, if it wasn't for going back to WI soon they would certainly be on the list but britt's just dont seem to handle the cold as well as others, mine was miserable this past Jan. when I went back. I will say that she did keep on going after those birds.
Thanks again and keep those suggestions coming

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by ezzy333 » Sun May 24, 2009 8:06 pm

We have had well over a 100 Brits over the past years and have not found a single one that had problems with cold. Most were in outdoor kennels with weather down in the -20 to -30 range. For a matter of fact the only dogs we had any problem with is a couple of Viszlas.

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by adam.WI » Mon May 25, 2009 8:36 am

I guess I did make a pretty generalized statement about britts. I should have said mine is a wimp and couldn't tolerate the cold. I will give her the benefit of the doubt being that she came from another climate and didn't get a chance to gradually get use to the cold.
Ezzy how do yours do with water retrieves. Mine hates the water, she will go but I get a look of death if I throw some thing in the water.

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by Shadow » Mon May 25, 2009 1:11 pm

ezzy333 wrote:We have had well over a 100 Brits over the past years and have not found a single one that had problems with cold. Most were in outdoor kennels with weather down in the -20 to -30 range. For a matter of fact the only dogs we had any problem with is a couple of Viszlas.

Ezzy
well said- we get cold weather down here sometimes- I haven't had 100 so will let you answere his question about retrieving :)

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by versatileguy » Mon May 25, 2009 5:02 pm

Drahthaar or GWP....same dog different registries. :twisted: Inspite of what you will be told.

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by ezzy333 » Mon May 25, 2009 5:14 pm

Most of the Brits love the water and I think they all would if started young. However, Rush is not fond of it but I think it was my fault. Time and Comet love to lay or roll in every mud puddle and will get in the water without hesitation. SO i am sure there are some that don't like it but probably that is from lack of opportunity while young.

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Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

versatileguy
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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by versatileguy » Mon May 25, 2009 5:22 pm

This a not about wannabee versatile dogs..........lets not pollute it with the brittany coulda woulda stuff. :roll:

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ezzy333
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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by ezzy333 » Mon May 25, 2009 5:29 pm

Don't be jealous! All of the versatiles are ok and will catch up with the Brits and GSP's some day. I wouldn't switch breeds if I was you since you already have a start with yours. :lol:

Ezzy
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

versatileguy
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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by versatileguy » Mon May 25, 2009 6:29 pm

Quite honestly I have already had one of those brits years ago, not too bad in the uplands,....... but versatile, no way!!.... I then did some research and moved up. :lol:

I won't be going back down the versatile ladder anytime in my future. :mrgreen:

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Dennmor
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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by Dennmor » Mon May 25, 2009 9:18 pm

versatileguy wrote:This a not about wannabee versatile dogs..........lets not pollute it with the brittany coulda woulda stuff. :roll:
Good point! There are cats that swim!
IMO, a versatile dog is a breed of dog, that, in overwhelming majority, takes to all the catagories of a versatile dog naturally. And not a few examples of the breed that can point or retrive in cold water, or are good trackers.

Then again I'm not one to worry about definitions. If I can get my dogs to do what I want, I dont lose any sleep over whether or not they fit the "requirements".

Even though mine do. 8) :P

dennmor
Last edited by Dennmor on Tue May 26, 2009 4:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
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cody
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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by cody » Mon May 25, 2009 10:41 pm

Guess it depends on how you define a versatile dog. I would venture to guess there are a good number of versatile britts, setters and pointers out there, as well as GSP's and GWP' s that are not.

versatileguy
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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by versatileguy » Tue May 26, 2009 12:18 am

cody wrote:Guess it depends on how you define a versatile dog. I would venture to
guess there are a good number of versatile britts, setters and pointers
out there, as well as GSP's and GWP' s that are not.
I would bet like what Denmor alluded to, there are less GWP/Drahthaars that can't do the versatile dog abilities, than brittanys, setters, pointers and other "wannabee in vogue at the time versatile breeds" that do fit into, and can hack what a true versatile dog needs in abilities. :roll:

Margaret

Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by Margaret » Tue May 26, 2009 1:02 am

Versatile is really about a dog that can easily adapt itself to all hunting situations given the opportunity, not about a training a dog to do many things. But what I really want to say is that there are good and bad dogs in any breed and in all instances it pays to do your homework and find a breeder who will tell you the good and bad about their breed and their dogs rather than brag them up. If they brag them up too much you can rest assured they are one-eyed and will reject any problems they have in their breed or dogs.

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Dennmor
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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by Dennmor » Tue May 26, 2009 4:20 am

Margaret wrote:Versatile is really about a dog that can easily adapt itself to all hunting situations given the opportunity, not about a training a dog to do many things. But what I really want to say is that there are good and bad dogs in any breed and in all instances it pays to do your homework and find a breeder who will tell you the good and bad about their breed and their dogs rather than brag them up. If they brag them up too much you can rest assured they are one-eyed and will reject any problems they have in their breed or dogs.
Well said Margaret! :)
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Shadow
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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by Shadow » Tue May 26, 2009 7:34 am

versatileguy wrote:This a not about wannabee versatile dogs..........lets not pollute it with the brittany coulda woulda stuff. :roll:
funny- American Brittanies are a true versatile breed- except in the minds of some
lets see- the only reason you could state this is because you are a die hard fur hunter- don't think a dog who doesn't mess with fur is a versatile dog- and if one doesn't stick it's nose to the ground to stay on and track something

you're on the wrong web site aren't you

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by ezzy333 » Tue May 26, 2009 7:55 am

versatileguy wrote:This a not about wannabee versatile dogs..........lets not pollute it with the brittany coulda woulda stuff. :roll:
Just looked up the breeds NAVHDA consider versatile and the Brit is listed but not the Drahthaars. Seems strange doesn't it?

Ezzy
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by cody » Tue May 26, 2009 8:04 am

Somehow I think that Brits, Setters and Pointers not being accepted by the versatile crowd is not such a bad thing anyway.

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by ezzy333 » Tue May 26, 2009 8:18 am

You might be right. I know the term versatile has taken on a whole new meaning over the years and I find no real use for those attributes as defined today in our hunting dogs.

Ezzy
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

Shadow
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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by Shadow » Tue May 26, 2009 8:28 am

cody wrote:Somehow I think that Brits, Setters and Pointers not being accepted by the versatile crowd is not such a bad thing anyway.
right :D

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by JakeDD » Tue May 26, 2009 2:10 pm

ezzy333 wrote:Just looked up the breeds NAVHDA consider versatile and the Brit is listed but not the Drahthaars.
Well, I guess that says it all. Generations and generations of DDs are no longer versatile. :roll: LOL.
ezzy333 wrote:Time and Comet love to lay or roll in every mud puddle and will get in the water without hesitation. SO i am sure there are some that don't like it but probably that is from lack of opportunity while young.
Rolling in puddles is a far cry from being a water dog. Ever tried keeping a lab OUT OF the water? It's a constant battle. Drop a bluebill in early Nov in single digit weather and those puddle rollers will look at you like you've lost your mind cuz they're sure as heck not getting in that water!

Personally, I don't care about labels - versatile or not. The proof is in the game bag, IMO. And when you find a game bag with upland, waterfowl, and fur in it, chances are there's a wirehaired dog standing next to it. Can others do it? Sure. Any schnauzer can be trained to find upland birds, track rabbits, and retrieve a wood duck, but the WPG/GWP/DD/PP have all been bred specifically to naturally excel in multi-purpose work for decades upon decades. I just get tired of hearing how other breeds who were designed to be specialists can do it just as well as any other breed.

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by versatileguy » Tue May 26, 2009 2:34 pm

Right on JakeDD!!

These Brittany and other "wannabee versatile breeds" owners are just as "soft" and "sensitive" as their dogs...........can't hack the work that needs to be done afield in the fields, forest, and marsh......... or the reality of truthfulness. :roll:

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by MTO4Life » Tue May 26, 2009 2:56 pm

I guess we'll have to close this forum down and have the Wirehaired gundog forum, the versitile gundog forum, the britany gundog forum, and "pick any other breed" gundog forum.

Can't please everyone...

The britt works for me. She'll point, and retreive out of water. As for them not doing well in the cold water... in November she was swimming with the labs in the duck ponds. Would come out shivering, and jump back in for more. Depends on the dog.

If we want to hunt fur, we don't waste our time with a versitile breed, we use beagles, hounds and such. Might as well use the best breed for the game... of course, this is my opinion, because I obviously am soft like my choice of dog, and can't hack the reality of truthfulness!!! No such thing as a perfect dog. If there was, we would only have one breed, and what fun would that be? :P

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by adogslife » Tue May 26, 2009 3:17 pm

The reason the versatile dog was created was so the poor folk, who could not afford multiple specialists, could afford to have a dog that could bring all game to the table-for food.
What a handful of dogs do does not define a breed. If a dog turns its nose up to fur then it is not a true versatile. If a dog does not know when to put its nose down and when to hold it high it is not a true veratile. A true versatile dog knows when,how,where and why.

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by Dennmor » Tue May 26, 2009 3:28 pm

You know...
This all started out with a good question and some good hearted kidding. :)
But it seems like some just can't resist turning it into something more serious. (A peeing contest) :roll:

C'MON PEOPLE!!!
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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by fuzznut » Tue May 26, 2009 4:23 pm

AhHa!!! See it really pisses you off when your breed is talked about in not so nice generalities! We, us owners of Wirehaired breeds hear this crap all the time, and we are supposed to just listen to it and not respond.

This discussion did all start with a good question, which promptly was answered by a few whose last apparent contact with the breed was about 30 yrs ago. I believe it's the responsibility of people who know the breed to correct misinformation or at least give an update on the condition of the breed.

Good luck with the search for a good water dog/upland bird dog. They are out there....
Fuzz
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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by cody » Tue May 26, 2009 5:10 pm

I just get tired of hearing how other breeds who were designed to be specialists can do it just as well as any other breed
We owners of "specialists" get tired of hearing how versatiles can do it as good or better in the field. That gate swings both ways
These Brittany and other "wannabee versatile breeds" owners are just as "soft" and "sensitive" as their dogs...........can't hack the work that needs to be done afield in the fields, forest, and marsh......... or the reality of truthfulness
.

Like I said before, I don't think most of us wannabee versatiles. When I start hunting Muskrat and Mud Ducks I will be sure to get a fuzzy dog, until then I guess I am stuck with my "specialist". Just trying to be truthful

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Re: DRAHTHAAR????

Post by versatileguy » Tue May 26, 2009 5:47 pm

Cody and the rest have the typical non versatile dog owner response. They feel some need to belittle a dog who can do it all, by degrading fur, or tracking.....all things that a decent hunting dog needs to do, in order to be a worthy hunting dog IMHO. Pretty soon you will read them trying to justify why they have to pick up their own shot birds, because the dogs they hunt with don't like feathers in the their mouths, ..........or how they had to wade out to get the downed duck because the water was "too cold" for their "hunting " dog and blah, blah, blah...... :roll:

The excuses of the wannbee versatiles never end........

Good luck to the kid, he is wise for his young years.

Hopefully he will not be misled to a "wannabee invogue at the time pretend versatile breed" by some internet non-hunter blowhard type. :roll:

And when they are sitting at home on their rear ends infront of the boob tube watching hunting shows, you can be out with your truely versatile hunting dog, enjoying the hunt, with a dog that does what it was bred for.

Good luck in your search adam.


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They are called versatile for a reason. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Last edited by versatileguy on Tue May 26, 2009 8:29 pm, edited 8 times in total.

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