The Ideal Breed for me... and game bird thoughts

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FlyinSoLow
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The Ideal Breed for me... and game bird thoughts

Post by FlyinSoLow » Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:19 am

Hello,

I’m looking into buying my first hunting partner for fowl.

I’m looking for a little help finding a breed that will best suit me. At first I was dead set on a Labrador, because we do a lot of goose and duck hunting…
But as I thought about this I would love to get into pheasants and ruffed grouse more. We do a little Grouse hunting, but not much as our lovely North Eastern PA just isn’t as plentiful with game birds as it used to be. So I would probably look into joining a club and/or breeding some game birds myself. Thankfully with the help of conservation efforts the wild game bird populations are on the rise, and I think it would be something fun to get involved in.

What breeds (should) be able to hunt both Pheasants and Grouse and retrieve Ducks and Geese from the field? (We hunt almost exclusively in corn fields both for duck and geese)
I’m falling in love with German Shorthaired Pointers at the moment, but I would love to get a better handle on my options.

Some other ‘food for thought’;
We (the future husband and I) currently have a year old female 13” tri Beagle that we use for rabbits. Though bunny hunting with the Beagle is mostly his thing, I do enjoy going and watching the dog run. And thanks to me, our energetic little beagle is also our lovable house pet =) (I like the dogs to live in the house, it’s probably a girl thing though) so whatever we get should also make a good pet.
We also have a year old Boxer, a Cairn Terrier, and a Mini Schnauzer (none of them do a lot!)
I’m not really looking to compete in anything… but you never know, training the dog may go really well and I do typically get carried away!
This is going to be more of a hobby for me. I really enjoy training dogs and ‘using’ them for a purpose, as well as for my own enjoyment (The dogs all do a lot of party tricks to boot, the beagle is especially talented). For the past 5 years I’ve broke and trained Horses in every training area imaginable, sadly the horse hobby is expensive and requires more equipment (barns, horse trailers, huge pastures, large trucks ect) so I’m kind of slipping away from that and focusing more on hunting and dogs.

Also, I know there is a lot to research to look at as far as permits and such for raising Pheasants and Quail (I’d also like to raise pigeons for training purposes) but does anyone else do this?
Either for themselves to release and hunt, or perhaps sell the adult birds, or other?
I live on almost 11 acres, out in the middle of nowhere and about an even half is wooded, half open. We (again the future husband and I) have access to a lot of farms and hunting land, and in addition to this He belongs to a 1200 acre hunting cabin that boasts a lot of ruffed grouse and a lot of room to train and hunt.
So if we did raise birds, I think it would be pretty worth it, and a lot of fun!

Is getting set up for birds really difficult? Do you have to go through a ton of hoops and paper work to be able to raise and release them?

Feel free to add any additional information or ideas you may have, Like I said right now I’m in the research aspect of all this, I’m not rushing into anything therefore it may not even start coming together for a few years, so whatever anyone wants to offer will certainly help!

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Re: The Ideal Breed for me... and game bird thoughts

Post by cesarike » Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:29 am

There are a lot of activities to get into with your dogs.

Depending on what type of bird dog you get, there are all sorts of organizations that you can join to train and compete your dog, NAHVDA comes to mind.

There are plenty of organizations that compete hounds, although I don'r know the names of any of them. You could join a club like that with your beagle.

Also, there are other non hunting activities such as AGILITY. This can be a lot of fun as it involves a lot of interaction between dog and handler. It is also a great way to keep a dog sharp and in shape during the off season.

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Re: The Ideal Breed for me... and game bird thoughts

Post by Wa Chukar Hunter » Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:53 am

Based on your requirements/wants. I think your first choice of a lab is the correct one. Lab will do all of those things pretty well.
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Re: The Ideal Breed for me... and game bird thoughts

Post by Russmill84 » Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:08 am

About to say the same thing.....Labs sound like the way to go with your hunting preferences.
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Re: The Ideal Breed for me... and game bird thoughts

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:27 am

I was going to suggest youlook at a GWP but the GSP would fit the purpose also. A Lab is good if you are satisfied with flushing dog. Check in your local area and see who else has dogs of the type you want to look at and they will be able to fill you in on whats available for you locally. I think you will be surprised once you start getting involved.

Many people do raise homing pigeons for training purposes and there is not much problem getting inbto them. As far as raising and releasing actual gamebirds most states have some pretty restrictive rules about it. SO once again look for those regs locally and then come backand ask what questions you still have.

By the way, welcome to the board and sure hope you learn and enjoy.

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FlyinSoLow
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Re: The Ideal Breed for me... and game bird thoughts

Post by FlyinSoLow » Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:49 am

Thank you for all the responses so far.

The only reason I was starting to stray away from Labradors is because I thought training a ‘pointer’ breed to retrieve geese and ducks out of a field may be easier than teaching a Lab to hunt Upland birds.

As far as what’s available locally, I’d be willing to travel for a good Dog of any breed, and probably will have to no doubt. I’m looking right now at a few PA (and surrounding areas) breeders that are breeding Hunting dogs (different Breeds) and using them, I know getting a well bred dog will make my life so much easier and more enjoyable.

Traveling for Clubs and Events will most likely also have to be done. I haven’t seen much in my area, which is fine. I don’t mind that much either.

I wanted an active outdoor hobby, to keep me in shape physically and mentally, and I think a bird dog will fill the role well. We enjoy hunting everything from small to large game, so this idea came up pretty quick. And there is a lot that can be done with a dog in between seasons!

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Re: The Ideal Breed for me... and game bird thoughts

Post by mcbosco » Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:11 am

Look at a Spinone as well.

sal

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Re: The Ideal Breed for me... and game bird thoughts

Post by CherrystoneWeims » Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:31 am

I know that some of you may laugh at this but what about a Weimaraner? They are very versatile. They can hunt fur and feather, do water retrieves, track, etc. And they LOVE to be with their people. They are also low shedding.

With your background in horses you probably will do well training dogs. I find that people who start out with horses seem to have a natural ability to "read" dogs.
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Re: The Ideal Breed for me... and game bird thoughts

Post by gar-dog » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:44 am

mcbosco wrote:Look at a Spinone as well.
I don't exactly know why, but I was thinking the same thing as I read through the thread. These are great for foot hunters and pretty versatile. I think there is a woman in PA on this board who has a Spinone - and she shows it and was starting to hunt it. I will try to find the thread.

Also, PA recently passed some law allowing the release of pen-raised gamebirds on state land. Don't quote me on this, please do some research. It was in the news a month or so ago.

Welcome to the forum!

P.S. I forgot to ask something..... you said "we (again the future husband and I) have access to a lot of farms and hunting land, and in addition to this He belongs to a 1200 acre hunting cabin that boasts a lot of ruffed grouse and a lot of room to train and hunt."..... Do you guys need a new best friend?

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gar-dog
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Re: The Ideal Breed for me... and game bird thoughts

Post by gar-dog » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:51 am

Here is the thread of who I was thinking of in PA. Monskmom is her username.
http://www.gundogforum.com/forum/viewto ... 05#p106405

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Re: The Ideal Breed for me... and game bird thoughts

Post by R-Heaton » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:03 pm

mcbosco wrote:Look at a Spinone as well
I knew it wouldn't be long before somebody suggested a breed that actually nobody know's what its suppose to do. :D
At least you will never get blamed for poor training. :D


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mcbosco
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Re: The Ideal Breed for me... and game bird thoughts

Post by mcbosco » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:29 pm


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Grange
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Re: The Ideal Breed for me... and game bird thoughts

Post by Grange » Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:19 pm

FlyinSoLow wrote:Thank you for all the responses so far.

The only reason I was starting to stray away from Labradors is because I thought training a ‘pointer’ breed to retrieve geese and ducks out of a field may be easier than teaching a Lab to hunt Upland birds.
I would disagree with that thought. That's not to say training a pointing dog to retrieve has to be hard, but teaching a lab to hunt upland birds is easy. I have a lab that only hunts upland game. On ruffed grouse she is pretty good. On pheasant she is outstanding. A birdy lab should have no problem hunting upland birds like pheasant and ruffed grouse. Their biggest downfall with upland birds that I've found with my dog is hot weather. Without a a lot of water for the dog to cool off she won't last as long in the uplands as the upland pointing dog specialists.

If you prefer a pointing dog then get a pointing dog, but labs are good upland bird hunters.

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Re: The Ideal Breed for me... and game bird thoughts

Post by ACooper » Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:19 pm

Grange wrote:
FlyinSoLow wrote:Thank you for all the responses so far.

The only reason I was starting to stray away from Labradors is because I thought training a ‘pointer’ breed to retrieve geese and ducks out of a field may be easier than teaching a Lab to hunt Upland birds.
I would disagree with that thought. That's not to say training a pointing dog to retrieve has to be hard, but teaching a lab to hunt upland birds is easy. I have a lab that only hunts upland game. On ruffed grouse she is pretty good. On pheasant she is outstanding. A birdy lab should have no problem hunting upland birds like pheasant and ruffed grouse. Their biggest downfall with upland birds that I've found with my dog is hot weather. Without a a lot of water for the dog to cool off she won't last as long in the uplands as the upland pointing dog specialists.

If you prefer a pointing dog then get a pointing dog, but labs are good upland bird hunters.

I agree if you want to go the "easier way" then a lab or even a Boykin would be ecellent choices, many labs only need to be exposed to upland hunting to get the hang of it.

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Re: The Ideal Breed for me... and game bird thoughts

Post by Winglish » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:43 pm

You need a NAVHDA bred Wirehaired Pointing Griffon, WPG for short. Go to AKC's website and read the standard. They aren't called the "Supreme Gundog" for nothing. These dogs will fit all of your requirements and more. On the plus side, they also don't shed because they have hair and not fur. You do need to take them outside to roll their coat once in awhile. FWIW- I also own a Lab who hunts upland pretty well, but if you want a pointing dog that fits your other criteria it's a WPG or GWP that I'd want in your situation. Here's a pretty good description of griffs with some photos:
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/wirehairedp ... riffon.htm

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Re: The Ideal Breed for me... and game bird thoughts

Post by mcbosco » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:50 pm

for what you need or want the Spinone or WPG fit the bill, but unless you know someone you will wait a long time to get a pup

WPG and Spinone breeders just don't sell pups

sal

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Re: The Ideal Breed for me... and game bird thoughts

Post by MillerClemsonHD » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:54 pm

I would say go to a local club or hunt test or trial and watch pointing dogs work. Would also suggest trying to find a flushing dog to watch work. That is the best way to figure out what you like. Then if you pick flushing or pointing dog then start looking at the different breeds to determine what you wan. We all have a biased opinion on what is best. Then decide if you will upland hunt the most or retreiver work the most and look for a breeder who has dogs that are what you are looking for. NAVHDA would be a great way to see multiple breeds of dogs work at both field work and retrieving. Also a great way to find a breeder.

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Re: The Ideal Breed for me... and game bird thoughts

Post by mcbosco » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:58 pm

well said

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Re: The Ideal Breed for me... and game bird thoughts

Post by stetson82 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:59 pm

i would have to say a lab. being somewhat partial to labs i hunt both with mine. you may want to consider a smaller leaner lab. i would not get a 80 lbs lab but one around 60.. there is also alot to be said for pointing lab the recent breedings have developed labs with a more natural and stylish point to them. i have friends that use labs for grouse in wisconsin and they prefer them over a pointer.. i have labs and a gsp and i would definetly go with the lab. another would be a brittany although they are a bit small on handling our giant canadian geese.. good luck
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Re: The Ideal Breed for me... and game bird thoughts

Post by Grouse Dog Guy » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:31 am

Your in north east Pa, take a short trip up to Grouse Ridge Kennels in Oxford, NY and look at their setters. I have one that loves retrieving ducks and geese from land or water and is a great upland bird dog, gentleman in the house and beside me on the truck seat.

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Re: The Ideal Breed for me... and game bird thoughts

Post by FlyinSoLow » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:40 am

stetson82 wrote: you may want to consider a smaller leaner lab. i would not get a 80 lbs lab but one around 60..
adam
I understand what you mean by the smaller leaner ones, Its so easy to just go out and find a lab pup for sale. I've met many lazy fat labs that are pets and had the 'hunt and retrieve' bred right out of them.

The ones I've been looking at are the ones that have FT and or HT proven lines, and are OFA for hips, elbows, CERF for eyes, and CNM and EIC clear, or even a carrier may do since the dog will be fixed.
So I've been doing my homework in that area anyway :lol:

With every breed I'm considering I'd rather go the extra mile in travel and cost to get a dog thats bred to do what I want and has the blood thats been doing it for years. I feel it just makes life easier or everyone.

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Re: The Ideal Breed for me... and game bird thoughts

Post by stetson82 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:35 am

if you are interssted in a pointing lab i will have pups available in about a month or there should be a litter coming out of a renos black ice x calumets wild card duece this fall check out chris smith website at www.blackiceretrievers.com or call him he is a wealth of knowledge and enjoys finding people the perfect dog. he has seen alot of dogs and could help you a ton adam

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Re: The Ideal Breed for me... and game bird thoughts

Post by briarpatch » Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:40 am

I would say go to a local club or hunt test or trial and watch pointing dogs work. Would also suggest trying to find a flushing dog to watch work. That is the best way to figure out what you like. Then if you pick flushing or pointing dog then start looking at the different breeds to determine what you want. We all have a biased opinion on what is best. Then decide if you will upland hunt the most or retreiver work the most and look for a breeder who has dogs that are what you are looking for. NAVHDA would be a great way to see multiple breeds of dogs work at both field work and retrieving. Also a great way to find a breeder.

I agree with the above statement 100%

but my biased side says :twisted: Get a GSP !!!!

But Almost any of the dog breeds mentioned if you bought one from a quality breeder, that breeds,tests and hunts their dogs for simular hunting practises as you wish to hunt would work, and you will find many breeds that fit the bill from what you described, the key is to research research research and to find a quality breeder after you firmly decide on a breed that uses their dogs to hunt in the same or very simular situations as you wish to use your dog for in the future,it does sound like a NAVHDA backgrounded dog would fit the bill well from what you described..

also just a suggestion I wouldnt rush to get the dog fixed as you mentioned you may find you have a great dog in the future that is of breeding quality and you may fall in love with the breed you pick and decide you wish to reproduce it later on..also some claim getting a birddog fixed to early hinders their mental development (dont know if its true or not but I have heard it said) ..and bird dogs are addictive when you find the right fit, its like the old potatoe chip commercial bet ya cant just have one :D ....
and you do, just from your statements sound like your going to do your homework and find the right fit and also from your statements also sound to me like the perfect canidate to get one and get hooked on one :D




the above is just some more of my normal ramblings late in the night :lol: perhaps you may find them helpful abit

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Re: The Ideal Breed for me... and game bird thoughts

Post by BdBHunts » Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:00 pm

My two Bourbonnais.
Mixed bag, ptarmigan and teal
Image
Almost 9 months old, mallard
Image

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