Silver Labs...should they be recognized?

[Russmill84]

So I have been reading after seeing a friend interested in Silver Labs and probably going to get one. Personally I know that the DNA testing that has been done on the breed only show its parents are it parents, it does not show up as a breed specific marker. AKC recognizes them as Chocolate labs or a shade of Chocolate, and does not recognize them as Silver Labs. Now my question is do you think the LRC should allow Silver Labs to considered a Lab?

[ezzy333]

That is strictly up to your Lab breed club as to what they want to recognize and then AKC will enforce it for them. But the club members need to make the decision, not any of the rest of us.

Ezzy

[kerplunk105]

No.

[CherrystoneWeims]

No. They are a cross between a Labrador and a Weimaraner. Take a look at some of the "Silver Lab" websites. Some breeders will be honest enough to admit that they have done the crosses.

I'm giving my opinion because they have used the breed that I am involved in to create them.

[Russmill84]

Well I just was just wondering for the fact that the LRC does not recognize the Silver Lab but the AKC does or did at one time, but caused problems with the LRC now they just say they are chocolate labs. Just seemed REALLY weird to me. I think just by looks you can tell 100% there is a weimaraner involved in this.

[ezzy333]

Well I just was just wondering for the fact that the LRC does not recognize the Silver Lab but the AKC does or did at one time, but caused problems with the LRC now they just say they are chocolate labs. Just seemed REALLY weird to me. I think just by looks you can tell 100% there is a weimaraner involved in this.

Akc only recognizes what the parent club tells them to. Akc just keeps the studbooks.

Ezzy

[Russmill84]

Well I may not be getting the point your trying to make Ezzy, so you'll have to excuse my ignorance. But i did read on the LRC site that any other color than brown or shades of brown, yellowor shades of yellow, or black is not accepted, or yellow, brown, or black with a brindle is not accepted, or is a disqualifying factor. If this is true why does the AKC recognize and allow this coloration into their happenings, when the LRC does not? I'm probably digging way to into this, I just see it as weird, and don't think it should be allowed personally. And it doesn't bother me......unless I see someone claiming to have a silver GSP one day

[GrayDawg]

Can someone post a picture of a "Silver" Lab? Or a link to a site that has pictures?
My interest has officially been piqued.

Rob

[Russmill84]

here is a couple, but you can find pictures all over the internet.....can you say a weim was not used to produce this?

[Sharon]

Sure does look like a weimi. / lab mix

[megschristina]

No. If labs aren't known to rarely throw a blue pup, then I would have to suspect paper hanging.

[ACooper]

If someone wants a cross bred dog, by all means get one. What I hate is when people try to pass a cross off as a pure bred. As far as "silver labs" go something that is supposed to be a fluke and be really rare they sure seem to be popping up A LOT.

[ymepointer]

I am sure it is legit, just like those yellow shortairs popping up everywhere

[Sharon]

[quote="ACooper"]If someone wants a cross bred dog, by all means get one. What I hate is when people try to pass a cross off as a pure bred. " quote


Exactly . Well said.

[hubweims]

NO

[GrayDawg]

here is a couple, but you can find pictures all over the internet.....can you say a weim was not used to produce this?

Wow !! If I didn't know better, I'd say that was a Weim that didn't have their tail docked!
I don't see the "Boxy" frame of a lab there at all. Maybe a *little* more stout on the back end that a weim, but the front half up through
the brisket look ALL Weim!!

Now here's the $100,000.00 questions- do these dogs point? Are they supposed to?

Rob

[Shadow]

heck- how many types of labs have we now- might as well have another- isn't the goal to have the most well sought after designer dog- do all dog

got to go with the Weim folks- sure looks like a strong cross- course it'd be easy for the mills to say- no- the parents are both registered labs

I get a chuckle out of someone who has a strange looker but say's- no it's a purebreed we just didn't want to have it registered- why pay the money

[slistoe]

The "silver" lab should not be an officially recognized color. The AKC never "recognized" them. The AKC is a paper registry based on parentage alone. Color has nothing to do with the ability to register a dog, only parentage.

[Aslowhiteguy]

Lab-A-Ramier just doesn't have the same ring as Labadoodle. If it did, they could charge more. And get it.

[briarpatch]

Lab-A-Ramier just doesn't have the same ring as Labadoodle. If it did, they could charge more. And get it.

Thats TRUE and Funny, a buddy of mine at work just paid over a thousand dollars for a Labradoodle of course me, being me was busting his chops about his $1100.00 MUTT, he said hey if it keeps mom happy, its money well spent..

But this is how new breeds are formed, and I am just glad the Labradoodle folks are honest enough to say YEAH ITS A MIX and not attempting to pass them off as a curly haired lab or something..

It does amaze me though how people take a poorly bred $400.00 lab and mix it with a poorly bred $400.00 poodle and then sell the pups for over $1000.00 bucks apeice and people are still buying em like hot cakes. the lady my buddy's wife got his from also had golden-doodles and both the large litters were sold out at 8 weeks old..

I have thought about making my own breed
though mixing my bulldog with a shitzu and having some bullshitz shame I got him fixed

[Jmackk]

The "silver lab" is a cross of a wimer and a lab, just like the "golden lab" is a cross between a lab and a golden retriver. Just be carefull with mixes, in my experience they are ether incredible smart, or just plane dumb, but thats just my experience. (more good than bad)

[ezzy333]

Before we make a flat statement as to what they are I think it would be wise to offer the proof. There are just as many people who will say they are a dilute of of the brown coloration. Until someone can show the proof of what they are it is just conjector on everyones part. I have had one in for training that was a nice dog and looked all Lab with the shorter legs and heavy body and otter tail. But have seen some that were built taller and slimmer that might make you wonder. Some day it will be proved theu DNA testing probably but till then I don't think anyone could say for sure other than the breeders.

Ezzy

[rstbkt69]

If I were looking for a lab and I saw a litter that had black's, Choc's and yellows and there was a silver in there I may think wow one of the real silver labs. I wonder if I could get him cheaper if I promise to neuter him andnot pass the trait around. But I don't think a standard needs to be changed to include something that was probably culled 20 years ago.

[solon]

I no longer have a lab, but in the interest of diversity and its benefits, I would answer the question yes. The same for the fox red labs.

According to this article, silver labs can be true labs. It barely mentions the possibility of cross bred labs as the route for introduction of the modifier allele that results in these off colors. Whatever the source of such an allele, the gain in diversity is a benefit to the genetic health of the breed.

http://www.labbies.com/genetics2.htm#Melanin

Solon

[ACooper]

I would agree that a pure bred lab could come silver/grey etc, but am logical enough to realize that the huge majority of current silvers are probably crosses.

[ymepointer]

I thought that Weimys had a recessive coat color and breeding them with any other breed resulted in Brown or black offspring, so it seems it would be at least a second generation cross. As far as hunting prowess, I have run into a bunch of farmers in the PNW who used swear the best hunting dog they ever had was a lab weimy cross

[Shadow]

sure seems you are up on weim crosses

been in farm country last 30 years- hum- not to many farmers I've run into hunt

[slistoe]

There are just as many people who will say they are a dilute of of the brown coloration.
Ezzy

They say that because it is true. The silver color is the dilute of chocolate and "blue" is the dilute of black. The general Lab population does not possess the dilute gene.

I thought that Weimys had a recessive coat color and breeding them with any other breed resulted in Brown or black offspring, so it seems it would be at least a second generation cross.

Again, completely true. In order to produce the silver color the recessive dilute gene needed to be added from somewhere. The common theory is a cross to a Weim and then the offspring bred back to double up on the gene producing the color. Once you have the gene in an established population the color can be reproduced the same as the recessive yellow and chocolate colors are in Labs already. Because it takes two generations from the original cross to display the color a DNA parentage test is useless in identifying the fraud.

[zzweims]

I would agree that a pure bred lab could come silver/grey etc, but am logical enough to realize that the huge majority of current silvers are probably crosses.

As a weim breeder, this is sadly true. I don't know/don't care if it is "possible" to produce a silver lab naturally. I do know that I, and other weim breeders/stud dog owners, have been contacted by silver lab breeders looking to purchase weim pups from us or to breed to our weim stud dogs. I even had a lady show up on my doorstep once with a chocolate lab bitch in season that she needed to breed to my weim stud dog NOW! (she offered much money. I turned her down)

So, my vote is NO. Silver labs should not be recognized. IMO, most, if not all of them, are Weimaraner crosses.

Aline
http://zzfarms.com

[mountaindogs]

"Red" is NOT the same situation at all. Red is not new and has been around alot longer even than chocolate. It was actually the original color of yellow and the lighter colors are newer than the "red." It is all yellow though. pale near white yellow to dark near red yellow. All yellow.
http://www.littleriverlabs.com/foxred.htm This site has a nice hortory on "red"

"Silver" is different. I also have wondered why it seems always in the lankier labs and not the stocky labs. seems suspect to me. BUT that said I will admit that many breeders tell me that their a lot of weird color mutations that show up, like stripes and spots and occur naturally in purbred labs. This does not seem limited to any stocky or lanky type, like the silver seems, though. They also stress though that these are NOT to be breeding dogs and responsible breeders place them in not breeding homes...

I reserve judgment on it as I do not know enough, but given the lack of certainty I certainly would not add the color to the breed, until is is proven to be a non-cross. I do not see how you feel AKC "allows" it. Chocolate is not silver. I think that is just "breeders" trying to get by registering them under the current color sytem.

[CherrystoneWeims]

What you would have to do is have the grand parents or further back in the pedigree genetically coded for coat color. It is already done in Labs to see if they carry the yellow or chocolate gene.