American Field CH question

[MTO4Life]

Hey all American Field folk... I have a question for you.

What constitutes a CH with American Field? I see dogs with 4xAm. Fld. CH and such. I know just winning a weekend stake isn't it, but are points accumulated as with AKC? Or is it when you win a designated championship stake in AF? I see that with an event such as the New England Brittany Gun Dog Classics which are listed in the American Field as well. THey are 1 hr stakes, and would they be a CH if you won? I'm just curious as to how this works.

Thanks for the help!!

[Dave Quindt]

Or is it when you win a designated championship stake in AF?

Yes, you become an AF Champion by winning an AF Championship.

I see that with an event such as the New England Brittany Gun Dog Classics which are listed in the American Field as well. They are 1 hr stakes, and would they be a CH if you won?

Not all 1 hour events are championships. Since this event is called a "classic" it is not a championship. Classics are usually bigger events than local weekend trials and are usually 1 hour stakes, but are not championships. You usually have to run an event as a classic for a few years before the AF will approve the championship designation, but there are also events that have been classics for years and have no plans on becoming championships.

The American Field, either directly or through the organizations it sanctions, makes sure that there are not too many championships and that current championships draw enough entries and run on championship-quality grounds to help ensure the quality of the CH title.

FYI,
Dave

[Sharon]

Well said. Excellent post.

[MTO4Life]

Thanks for the great reply!

[Wagonmaster]

Technical clarification. A "win" in an American Field Championships is accrued for two dogs, the Champion and the R-U Champion. A dog that wins either title will have the title "Ch." appear on the pedigree and that dog may be referred to as "Champion Fido."

There are a few instances each year where the Championship is awarded and there is no R-U Ch. named. Also, it occasionally occurs that a stake starts out as a Championship but the judges feel that no dog performed well enough to earn the title "Champion," so either all placements are withheld, or the stake is converted to a "Club Stake," or "Regular Stake," and 1st, 2nd and 3rd are usually given out. In this case, no dog earns the title "Ch." In other words, the title of Champion does not just go to the best dog in the stake, it goes to the best dog in the stake that meets the standard expected of a Champion.

[cody]

I have been wondering the same thing.

So outside of a championship you cannot earn anything that will show up on a pedigree? No FC, AFC, NAFC in american field?

[Brittguy]

you can order a pedigree that list the number of wins,number of winners produced and number of wins of the offspring.It will appear under the name sort of like this 25-44-549 .

[RayGubernat]

Cody -

As far as I know the only designation that appears in fornt of a dog's name is Ch. if it has won a championship stake. The only other information that appears on a pedigree is the dog's win and production record, to date, in the form of three numbers (for example a hypothetical record of 10 -20 - 100) , the first number(10) being the number of placemnts that have been awarded to the dog, the second number(20) being the number of winning dogs that this dog has produced and the third number(100) being the total number of wins of the progeny of that dog.

The only other designation that appears on an FDSB pedigree is an asterisk, denoting a dog that has been elected to the Feild trial hall of Fame which can only occur after the dog is dead.

Hope this helps.

RayG

[slistoe]

There is one disclaimer to all of this and that is the dogs who won CH designations through NSTRA when it was still sanctioned by the Field. It will take a good many years to have those dogs pass through the pedigree system and as near as I know the titles were never stripped when the sanctioning was removed.

[Elroy's Bandit]

If a dog is "titled" in both AKC & AF , how does that work when you list that dog. Does the Ch. title from AF only show up or is listed inside the AF only? Would you or could you show both AKC & AF titles in front of that dog? ie; Ch./FC ??
Bil L.

[RayGubernat]

Bill -

I would think that you would want to be explicit about which pedigree you are listing. I would give consideration to the fact that a Ch. in front of an AKC pedigree has a totally different meaning than when it is seen on a FDSB pedigree and could definitely cause some confusion.

I should think that for a continental dog it would make sense, and be the least confusing for the reader, to show the AKC pedigree, with whatever titles the dog has earned, and then also state that the dog has AF/AFTCA trial wins and/or is an AF trial champion, whichever might be applicable.

That sounds, to me, to be a very nice kind of problem.

RayG

[Wagonmaster]

My personal view is that a seller or breeder needs to keep it simple and fully explained. People who have been around dogs for awhile know that the prefix "Ch." in front of a GSP, Brittany, Vizsla, GWP, Weim, IS, GS means a show championship, while in front of the name of the vast majority of pointers and most English setters it means a field championship. But people who are new to dogs don't understand the distinction, and it is a major one.

And there are lots of possible variations. It is common in NSTRA, for example, to list the number of times a dog has won a Championship, i.e. 5x Ch. Fido has won the title of Champion under NSTRA Rules five times. It is less common for people with dogs that have multiple American Field wins, to list those wins as titles for the dog. You will sometimes see, for example, "2x Specie Ch., 3x Reg. Ch. Fido." In the case of a GSP that would usually be construed to mean that the dog has won 2 Specie Championships and 3 Regionals. I have seen some dogs advertised as National Champions, when what they have won is, let's say, the National Chukar Championship. Well, ok, that "National" thing is part of the title, but the term "National Champion" is really meant to designate dogs that have won Ames, or in the case of GSP's, Brits, etc., their breed National Championship. Today, in addition to AF and AKC and NSTRA, all of which give out "Champion" titles, we also have tournament hunting organizations that award, let's say, the "Open Chukar Championship." I think, if you want to hunt in tennies and run after your dog, you should know that is the title the dog has.

My own personal view is that after listing the well recognized titles such as FC, AFC, NFC, Ch. as awarded by the AKC and AF, the rest should be explained to buyers. I keep a cv - curriculum vitae - on the dog, so anyone interested gets to see unequivocally what it is the dog has won, where and when, and knows what organizations' events the dog has won, so there is no question and no misunderstanding.

[dan v]

Bill,

In the pedigree software that I run, I have built additional titles. So if a dog is an American Field Champion and an AKC Field Champion, the dogs name will appear Am. Fld Ch./FC Poppa Chubby.

If the dog is multiple Am. Fld. Ch. it could be...... 11x Am. Fld Ch. Tekoa Mountain Sunrise

[Elroy's Bandit]

Thanks Wyndancer, makes sense. Do you actually "advertise" the titles as such?
Bill L.

[tommyboy72]

Uhhhh just out of curiousity is there really a dog named Poppa Chubby or was that just an example? If so, that is freaking hilarious. I am literally crying I am laughing so hard right now.

[Wagonmaster]

Wyndancer, what software do you use? I used Compuped for awhile, but it was just too difficult. It had all kinds of glitches, and it was difficult to create all the necessary titles. You could not create an individual title, such as your "Am.Fld.Ch." and then add that to other titles in front of a dog's name. For example, you could not create Am. Fld. Ch. and also FC, and then add them together in front of a dog's name to create Am.Fld.Ch./FC Poppa Chubby. You would have to create a whole new title "Am.Fld.Ch./FC". So one field would be "Am. Fld.Ch.", another would be "FC" and a third would be "Am.Fld.Ch./FC" . That gets complicated pretty fast and just is not worth the time if you are dealing with generations of dogs with multiple titles.

[Brittguy]

Most of the pedigrees I see that have Am. Field Champion or AFC ,actually means the AKC title of amateur field champion

[Wagonmaster]

Yes, I agree with that.

[dan v]

John,

I use The Breeders Standard, by Man's Best Friend Software....www.mbfs.com.

I keep about 25 thousand Gordon Setters in it, maybe 1-2 thousand ES, some EP's (mainly Elhew).

[dan v]

Uhhhh just out of curiousity is there really a dog named Poppa Chubby or was that just an example? If so, that is freaking hilarious. I am literally crying I am laughing so hard right now.

His call name is Woody

[tommyboy72]

OK OK now I am just about to bust a gut!