where are the birds in this country?

jbr03 · Post by **jbr03** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:19 pm

Hey Guys,

Recently, I've begun to seriously considering going back to school to get my MBA. There's not much work in my area right now and figure might as well go back to school with all the time left on my hands. I've decided that if I'm going to do this, I'll most likely be going out of state since the only college around that has my field of study is the University of Florida, and as a LOYAL Florida State fan and alumnus, I'd rather die than go to school there! So an out of state school opens up the entire country to me. I' m curious to know where the great wild bird populations are. I've heard GA has some decent bobwhite numbers, but where else? I have to train and hunt with human raised birds and I'm ready for something new. I have an EP and have always wanted to hunt those wide open spaces, littered with wild birds. Please consider that I'm a Florida boy and all suggestions of places where it snows will be shuddered at.

whoa on 'em · Post by **whoa on 'em** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:54 pm

Well Brian, considering your dislike for snow I will concentrate in the south. I live in Oklahoma and there are still some birds in the western part of the state (bobwhite and pheasant), but nothing like they used to be. Oklahoma University is in Norman and within a couple hours of some good hunting. Kansas gets some snow but there are enough birds to keep a guy busy. My brother used to live in Manhattan (location of Kansas State University) and we did some good quail, pheasant, dove, and duck hunting. Texas is so darn big that I'm sure a guy could find a school close to some good bird hunting somewhere. Also, don't forget about Arizona, I had the privilege of quail hunting down there once and let me just say if you want wide open spaces to bird hunt it might fit the bill. Bring your running shoes though; the birds didn't like to hold. I know I've been pretty vague, but I think the key would be to find a school with lots of public land near bye. I'm a firm believer that given enough territory, a guy and a dog can find some birds. If you want any specifics send me a message and I’ll be glad to share what little bit I know.

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:14 am

whoa on em I live as far west as you can get in Oklahoma before you hit Texas or Colorado and can tell you that pheasant numbers were good last year and I expect them to be excellent this year out here but bobwhites not so much but we do have blue quail. Just have to find some good private land to hunt on. Public land is sparse out here and we do have it and the bobwhite numbers may be better this year on public do to a great summer and spring rainfall but they were dreadful last year. jbr we have had some very mild winters out here the last 2 years but the way the summer and spring rains have gone I am expecting a good snow this year. I just completed my bachelors in finance from a small, inexpensive university where I live and can tell you that Southwestern Oklahoma State University in Weatherford, Ok. has an excellent MBA program and has some fairly good quail hunting up around there if you decide you want to consider the state of Oklahoma. You have OU and Tulsa of course. I guess it depends on how big a school you want to attend and how much you want to pay for your education. whoa on em I have heard over around Arnette is excellent quail habitat and awesome covey numbers especially on private but even on the Packsaddle WMA. I have some friends who live over there and am going to try and make it over east to hunt over there this year but missed out on it last year. Just 60 miles north of me in Elkhart, Ks. I have heard of excellent pheasant and quail numbers and thousands of acres of public land to be hunted. I have also heard that south Texas has really good covey numbers especially down around Abilene and San Angelo Texas but most of that is private land you will have to pay to hunt. From what I know Oklahoma is the place for quail in the country anymore and Missouri is really doing some wonderful things with Quail Unlimited and the birds are really making a dramatic comeback so that may be a state to consider as well. There is always South Dakota for pheasant as well and Idaho for chukar and quail and as was mentioned Arizona especially southern Arizona and tons of public in Arizona. I know where you are coming from jbr, when considering whether or not to go back and get my MBA I considered many schools out of my area and bird numbers and the type of birds because I wanted to be able to upland hunt and share it with my 2 young boys unfortunately right now it is not financially feasible for me but you should make sure you go somewhere you can enjoy your passion of hunting and get a good education as well. Many of the smaller state universities and colleges are in more rural or suburban areas and may offer you just as good an education and a better opportunity to hunt so keep them in mind as well. Your MBA just won't have a major university name on it.

Post by **Ayres** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:31 pm

I don't want to spoil anyone's fun and be a Jiminy Cricket, but you should probably pick the school for your MBA based on the merits rather than the local recreation. You can always travel on your fall, winter, spring and summer breaks, and on weekends. JMO.

whoa on 'em · Post by **whoa on 'em** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:41 pm

Spoil sport. When looking at schools for my graduate degree I can honestly admit that hunting opportunities nearby are a big factor. It's not that I don't take my school seriously, it's just that if I'm going to dedicate that kind of effort and money I want to enjoy my free time.

rkelly · Post by **rkelly** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:32 pm

One thing in your favor is you can't get much worse than Florida for a wild bird population. I would go for Idaho. Lots of public land and not all that harsh of temps or winter. Though that is coming from somebody who grew up with ND winters.

jbr03 · Post by **jbr03** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:22 pm

thanks everyone for the info. i will let you know how it goes.

Ayres-are you sure youre not my mom posing as a GDF mod?! my sole interest in going back to school is to learn, but i must have a balance between my studies and recreation or ill go crazy. i ended up taking a semester off during my under grad days just because i was tired of living in town where all there was to do was get boozed up and go to football games. besides, 99% of schools with the MBA programs im looking at are excellent schools. its not like im going to school at joebud community college just because they have the best wild bird populations. if i was going into law or medicine i would be more inclined to pick a school based on the name and reputation, but as far as my area (wildlife biology) goes, its not such a big deal since grades are more important than where you went. thanks for looking out for me though! i always said GDF was like a cyber family

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:45 pm

Wildlife Biology? I believe Oklahoma State University in Stillwater has a masters in that. I know the Idaho State has one if you can afford it. That was what I wanted to do before I chose Finance as a major. Big mistake that was.

Idaho State is expensive but they have an excellent program there.

jbr03 · Post by **jbr03** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:01 am

tommy- you are correct, OSU does have one. i had been looking at texas a&m as well as texas tech, even before i started this thread. i figure ill apply to 10 or so schools and see who accepts me and go from there. ill try for this spring (after the hunting season of course) i feel ya on the finance major thing. i got a degree in psych and was like "what am i going to do with this?" so i stayed and got a degree in Bio, not that i could really do much with that one either. would be nice to get a teachers assistant job after grad school since they seem to make the most money.

jbr03 · Post by **jbr03** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:03 am

and as far as being able to afford it... im going to have to take out a humongous loan anyway. whats another 10 or 20 grand over the rest of my life!? :roll:

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:53 am

You should check out Univ. of Idaho website and especially about the wildlife resources program. It is amazing. Last time I checked it out a few years ago they were making their own aquatic environments as well as forest environments to study so it wasn't just a bunch of theory in the classroom stuff. It was real hands on outside learning but in a controlled environment that would lend itself well to a masters thesis and the hours of study required to complete it. Plus the area up there is gorgeous and I believe there is some pretty good bird hunting in that area or very close. The school was just a bit more than I could afford but the online pics of the campus and dorms and the facilities and town were magnificent. If I had not gotten married and had a couple of kids in the last few years I might try and pursue it myself but with a family it is time to get to work I guess.

I believe in a previous post I misstated the university as Idaho State but I meant to say the Univ. of Idaho. Sorry about that.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:49 am

Texas A&M.

Neil

fishvik · Post by **fishvik** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:13 am

I guess I'm confused as to what you want to get your grad degree in. If it is an MBA you are looking for and you can tolerate a little snow, I'd look at Boise State. If you want a wildlife degree I would pick the U of Idaho. Great program(I'm an alum

and actually have a job in the field) and awesome bird hunting, but cold and snowy in the winter.( When those guys and Boise State are putting on parkas us U of I grads are bearly switching from Tshirts to long sleeve ones).

FLocker · Post by **FLocker** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:05 pm

I have an MBA from a Florida B-school, i work in corp. finance, and couldn't do my job without it. We do shoot a lot of preserve birds (the duck and dove hunthing is still really great at least). I think though, the past few years have shown that going back to a non top-ten business school to sit out a tough job market is a very lousy investment of both time and money, unless you go to Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, Dartmouth etc., where you will command a very high starting salary staring out.

In my opinion, the starting salaries for second tier MBAs are just too low to justify the cost and opportunity cost. (Mine wasnt). If you really ant an MBA, go to the absolute best school you can get in to, kill your courses, make $, and then hop aroud the americas each fall (SD, KS, So. GA, SK, Mexico) chasing wild birds. Just post pictures.

jbr03 · Post by **jbr03** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:55 pm

flocker, the problem has never been how much money i can make so much as finding a job right now. im pretty much guaranteed a job with an MS within the first year of graduation and thats what i need. i realize i have been referring to getting my MBA, instead of my MS. sorry, thats what happens when i post replies past my bedtime

i could care less at this point what my salary is, just as long as i have a steady job. this is the start of a long process as far as researching schools go, but i am grateful that you guys have shined some light on some of these schools.

jbr03 · Post by **jbr03** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:57 pm

there is always the possibilty of going as far as to get my Ph. D as well. i always thought being a professional student would be an interesting direction.

Post by **Ayres** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:39 pm

Hey, I was just sayin'. I know the lecture I would get if I let on that I chose my schooling because of this reason or that reason other than the school. Think of other factors too, though, like distance from your relatives and the such. But, yeah, I know the balance you got to have. While I went to school I lived literally 5 minutes from a hunting preserve, so I definitely wasn't bashing the idea.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:53 pm

Enjoy yourself!

FLocker · Post by **FLocker** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:00 am

Awesome, Have fun. Maybe UF and FSU scientists can figure out how to reverse the decline in the Florida wild quail population while you are gone.

jbr03 · Post by **jbr03** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:46 am

i wish they would do something about the wild bird populations here. QU says urban growth and development are to blame, which im sure is true, but i live on 850 acres and the closest "civilization" is 22 miles to the east. north west and south of me are hundred of thousands of acres of florida scrub brush and swamp which hasnt been seen by man in who knows how long. my property has been untouched since the 1950's and the quail were abundant up until about 15 years ago when they pretty much disappeared. ive heard a few calls here and there, but have never seen any quail. the same can be said for rural areas all across the state. i think its just too many predators. in my opinion, the best course of action to get numbers back up is to give tax breaks to private land owners who re-introduce quail into the wild. those surrogators are awesome things and could do wonders here. no one here really cares about upland hunting and bird doggers probably represent 1% of the hunting population here, so its a tough hill to climb to get people interested in quail populations. its all about fishing here.

gar-dog · Post by **gar-dog** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:11 am

I think the TX schools wouldn't be a bad choice - Texas, Texas A&M, and Texas Tech - (the major public schools which are cheaper.) Oklahoma too. You could check out Univ of New Mexico - it snows there but I don't think it gets sickly cold. Otherwise you really need to suck it up and deal with the cold.

I was raised in Houston, TX - so I know what 100 degrees and 95% humidity is like. I have seen 70 degree Christmas days before. But I went to Univeristy of Iowa for my MBA and frankly I kind of "got into" the cold and snow. I marvelled at how rubber tires and cars get creaky when it is zero degrees. I was amazed at how I could actually tell the difference between zero degrees and say 15 degrees! I got a childish fascination with snow. I pheasant hunted for the first time! I ate Brats and these weird pork tenderloin sandwiches up there! I knew it was only two years and then I was off to the races somewhere else.

My point being, you should consider the Michigans, Minnesota, Iowa, etc. Try something new and different. Florida will still be there.

Good luck,
Gary

Razor · Post by **Razor** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:33 am

rkelly wrote:One thing in your favor is you can't get much worse than Florida for a wild bird population. I would go for Idaho. Lots of public land and not all that harsh of temps or winter. Though that is coming from somebody who grew up with ND winters.

The only problem with that is Idaho schools SUCK!!!!!

Kid you need to look at the school and not hunting. The way the economy is right now if you do not attend a major University, you be spending one heck of a lot of money for nothing. Graduate programs do not have free time to begin with, all of your time should be spent hitting the books not the fields. The University of Arizona, and the University of Iowa are the only really good programs I know of in good bird country. The others are all lower tier.

FLocker · Post by **FLocker** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:36 am

Some good new today at least. Tall Timbers Research in Tallahassee is reporting a very good hatch in S.Ga/N. FL. You may want to consider going to work for them. I have pasted the article below.

Quail Hatch is Going Strong

By Dr. Bil Palmer, Game Bird Research Program Director
Reports from managers suggest that across the Red Hills and Albany region, bobwhite populations will be increased; our telemetry data on Tall Timbers is documenting the increased productivity this year. The Albany Quail Management Project (AQMP) reports the hatch in Albany has been solid thus far and conditions are favorable for a strong late hatch.

Nesting performance of bobwhites is near record levels for Tall Timbers. We have already hatched 64 nests for every 100 hens alive at the beginning of the nesting season! To compare, in 2002 a record year regionally, we hatched 70 nests per 100 hens for the entire nesting season. Nesting is still ongoing with several new nests discovered this week on Tall Timbers and by the AQMP. We are predicting a sizeable mid to late August hatch that will add to chicks already produced. Not to be left out, males on Tall Timbers have hatched 30 nests for every 100 males entering the nesting season, as many nests as hens hatched in all of the 2004 nesting season. Chick survival has also been high this past summer, partially due to excellent weather conditions, hot days intermixed with moderate rainfall. Together this makes for one of the best hatches of quail on Tall Timbers, and barring any weather-related “tropical” tragedy we should see marked increases in fall populations this year.
Both weather and predator-prey dynamics are important factors to regional quail populations. We continue to document cotton rat abundance each on our eight mark-recapture trapping grid arrays. Cotton rat abundance is of interest because they are the primary prey item for most quail predators and as their numbers increase quail survival tends to increase. We began to see an increase in cotton rat numbers last year along with regional quail population increases. Cotton rat trapping-banding has just been completed for this year but numbers of captures were up significantly over the past few years. High cotton rat abundance has correlated with high autumn bobwhite densities over the past two regional bobwhite population peaks.
Regional increases in bobwhite populations indicate two things. First that good habitat management and stable populations provide the basis for quail populations to take advantage of “good times” created by favorable weather, food abundance, and low predation. Second, we must be careful not to ascribe this year’s population growth to any one management action this past year. For instance, a change in how fields were managed or burning was completed while potentially important, was not the likely ultimate cause of the increase. That said, our long-term supplemental feeding study continues to show important management implications and year-around feeding is one of those management practices that can facilitate large population increases when conditions are good. More details of these results that will be fully explored in the upcoming Quail Call later this summer.

jbr03 · Post by **jbr03** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:02 pm

razor- SPARE ME!! i was just curious to know where the birds are, and if i can arrange it so im going to school within a couple hours drive of a place to hunt then so be it. you have to be absolutely NUTS to think that 110% of my time would be spent with my nose in a book, and for people who cant take a weekend here and there to recharge while in school, then maybe a continued education isnt for you in the first place. all work and no play makes jack a dull boy. there will be times when i have to really buckle down and do my thing, but there will also be times when ill be able to let loose. i have BA in psychology and a BS in biology as it is and i had plenty of roadtrips, forgotten weekends, and angry women on the way and it never retarded my studies to the point of no return. i know what to expect and what to expect of myself.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:13 pm

The only problem with that is Idaho schools SUCK!!!!!

They iz nuddin rong with Idaho scoolin. Weyever scool u goes to, u jus need to make the mose uv the opertunity. I's gots oll of my smawts from Idaho scoolin. They's no birds in Idaho no mo tho.

Pineywoods · Post by **Pineywoods** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:26 pm

DGFavor wrote:
The only problem with that is Idaho schools SUCK!!!!!
They iz nuddin rong with Idaho scoolin. Weyever scool u goes to, u jus need to make the mose uv the opertunity. I's gots oll of my smawts from Idaho scoolin. They's no birds in Idaho no mo tho.

Now that right there's funny I don't care who you are !

jt807 · Post by **jt807** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:33 pm

As far as Arizona goes, there are three type of quail here.

Gambels can be found all over the place. Not a good bird to hunt with dogs. They run, as well as live in the same areas as cactus. That means a lot of timing picking needles out of your dog, and retrainig for steadiness.

Scalies are found mostly in the southern part of the state. A beautiful bird, but they also run, although not as bad as gambels.

Mearns, found in the southern part of the state (short drive from U of A in Tucson), are the best hunting. American Gun Dog did a show on them last year. They hold very well for dogs. And they are in some beautiful country.

The best thing about Arizona is that this is all on public land. 88% of the state is public lands, see the link below. You can easily find public land anywhere you want to hunt; in fact it is much harder to find private land to hunt on. That makes hunting a lot cheaper than many other states.

http://www.library.arizona.edu/exhibits ... 20914.html

With that said, I have NO experience hunting other states. So I am not saying we are the best, I am just trying to give you feel for Arizona.

JT

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