Zio Bitten

[SubMariner]

This morning during his run in the conservation area behind our home Zio was bitten by a rattler. We don't know which type, but either the pygmy or the eastern diamond back are the usual suspects down here.

Because we had discussed this possibility with his vet, we knew where to take him for emergency treatment. Approx 1/2 hour after he was struck, we had him at the Florida Veterinary Specialists here in Tampa.

He is receiving antivenin as well as all other proper treatment via IV and is expected to make a full recovery. They think we may be even able to bring him home tomorrow. Luckily, he was struck on the nose and not in any critical area like the neck or chest.

The irony of it all is that he was scheduled to attend a "snakeproofing clinic" tomorrow.

[FLocker]

Wow, I am so sorry.

Fingers crossed for a full recovery. Once you guys are out of the woods, and things calm down, I'm sure everyone here would love to hear more details about what you did right and what the vets tell you the best course of action is in just such a case. I am also in Tampa, so this is particularly scary for me.

Good luck.

[reba]

I live on the central coast of california and my Vet has told me that they get one dog rattle snake bit once a day from spring through late summer!!!!!!!!

The good news for Zio is that you got him to the Vet very early.

[tommyboy72]

Hope it doesn't affect his scenting ability, sometimes that happens after a face strike.

[SubMariner]

Wow, I am so sorry.

Fingers crossed for a full recovery. Once you guys are out of the woods, and things calm down, I'm sure everyone here would love to hear more details about what you did right and what the vets tell you the best course of action is in just such a case. I am also in Tampa, so this is particularly scary for me.

Good luck.

I'm happy to report that we were able to bring Zio home this morning. His nose is still a little puffy where he was struck (two distinct fang marks are still visible) and he has a shaved patch on his flank where a heart monitor pad was attached, but other than that he looks like the usual Zio. However, the usual Zio wouldn't be this quiet. No exercise for at least a couple of days. They us a script for pain meds. He can have one every 8 hours, if required. His follow-up appointment with his own vet is scheduled for Monday.

According to the vet, the fact that Zio was already on Benadryl for seasonal allergies was helpful in keeping the swelling down after he was bitten. He was in ICU for the day and received one vial of antivenin. The antivenin alone was about $974, contributing to the bulk of the $2036 bill for his treatment.

Of course the irony in all this was that he was scheduled to go for Snakeproofing today. How sucky is that?!!!

I caution everyone who lives in an area with venomous snakes to contact their vet to find out if they can treat snake bites. If they can't, source out who can. That's what happened with us: Last month I called our vet, who said they don't carry antivenin, but gave me all the contact info for the Florida Veterinary Specialists. After contacting FVS to establish which of their locations had antivenin always on hand, I put the details into my iPhone.

As soon as we confirmed Zio was hit, we put him in the car & headed there. I called them enroute to alert them & as soon as we arrived, Zio was triaged right in. Soon after they confirmed that his bloodwork indicated that he had indeed been envenomed, so treatment began. At this point about 1 hour had elapsed. Time is definitely of the essence!

For those in the Tampa/St. Petes area, here is the information on the vet:
FLORIDA VETERINARY SPECIALISTS
3000 Busch Lake Blvd
Tampa, FL33614
(813) 933-8944
Open 24 hrs/day.

BTW, Zio had about 30 seconds of fame on one of the local tv stations that was doing a story on the high cost of antivenin for animals. Click on the video in this article: http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/l ... ogs_082809

[phermes1]

I'm glad to hear he's doing alright! Going through that experience with Shooter was one of the worst experiences, so I know how scary it is. Very happy to hear he's OK!

Bitten right on the nose - sounds like he got a little too curious. Yeah, I'd schedule some time with Doc Calderwood as soon as Zio is back to full strength!

Question - how far apart are the fang marks? We didn't see the snake that bit Shooter, but we determined it was an eastern diamondback partly because the fang marks were too far apart to be a pygmy. That might be able to tell you what got him.

Anyway - glad to hear he's OK.

[reba]

Good to hear Zio is doing well.

I have had one of my dogs to Rattlesnake prevention school. I took her back the next year for a refresher course and she didn't want anything to do with it!!!!! Therefore she learned and remembered.

HOWEVER the problem as I see it is when a dog is running and runs right over the top of a snake. I don't think the rattlesnake prevention school will help out in this case. The school seems more in line with keeping a dog away after the snake is reconized by the dog.

In big snake infested areas we don't hunt until after the first snow and the snakes are down. What do you Southern Boys do to aviod snakes?

[Dave C]

Glad to hear he is doing well, good luck with his recovery SM.

Dave.

[SubMariner]

I'm glad to hear he's doing alright! Going through that experience with Shooter was one of the worst experiences, so I know how scary it is. Very happy to hear he's OK!

Bitten right on the nose - sounds like he got a little too curious. Yeah, I'd schedule some time with Doc Calderwood as soon as Zio is back to full strength!

Question - how far apart are the fang marks? We didn't see the snake that bit Shooter, but we determined it was an eastern diamondback partly because the fang marks were too far apart to be a pygmy. That might be able to tell you what got him.

Anyway - glad to hear he's OK.

GMTA: another email went out to Doc Calderwood yesterday looking to schedule time with him ASAP. I think we may have also convinced one of our neighbours (has a pair of mini-schnauzers) to come along. Couldn't hurt...

"A little too curious" is an understatement when it comes to this dog. That's why he needs to go see Bud.

The fang marks were about 1.5 cm apart, so I'm thinking that's a little too wide for pygmy. We never DID find the snake; the grass is just too long.

[SubMariner]

I'm happy to report that Zio had a positive visit with the vet yesterday. His bloodwork came back today "normal". He can do some easy running now, but I suspect with this guy it's going to be all or nothing right out of the gate.

Thanks again to everyone for all the support.

[midwestfisherman]

Glad to hear he came out of it OK.

[phermes1]

HOWEVER the problem as I see it is when a dog is running and runs right over the top of a snake. I don't think the rattlesnake prevention school will help out in this case. The school seems more in line with keeping a dog away after the snake is reconized by the dog.

In big snake infested areas we don't hunt until after the first snow and the snakes are down. What do you Southern Boys do to aviod snakes?

You really can't do anything about the chance encounter. Removing the dog's curiosity can make a BIG difference, though. You do what you can. Shooter had been snakeproofed twice before he was bitten - goes to show you that you can't prevent it, only reduce the chances of it happening. There's also the rattlesnake vaccine, although I've heard both good and bad things about it. My vet specifically told me NOT to give it to Shooter. She said that, since he's already been bitten, he would be at risk for a severe reaction and it wasn't worth it. (Cheryl - something to think about with Zio, too)

[SubMariner]

HOWEVER the problem as I see it is when a dog is running and runs right over the top of a snake. I don't think the rattlesnake prevention school will help out in this case. The school seems more in line with keeping a dog away after the snake is reconized by the dog.

In big snake infested areas we don't hunt until after the first snow and the snakes are down. What do you Southern Boys do to aviod snakes?

You really can't do anything about the chance encounter. Removing the dog's curiosity can make a BIG difference, though. You do what you can. Shooter had been snakeproofed twice before he was bitten - goes to show you that you can't prevent it, only reduce the chances of it happening. There's also the rattlesnake vaccine, although I've heard both good and bad things about it. My vet specifically told me NOT to give it to Shooter. She said that, since he's already been bitten, he would be at risk for a severe reaction and it wasn't worth it. (Cheryl - something to think about with Zio, too)

Paul, I've heard about the snake vaccine as well. I believe it was also mentioned in the Fox 13 newspot in which Zio appeared. The inference I got was that since no FL species were used in it's creation, that it was basically useless here in FL. Conversely, I'm wondering that if the dog has already been bitten, whether or not some antibodies have been created that would be helpful in reducing the impact of any future envenomation. Now, that doesn't mean that if (G-d forbid) he gets hit again that we wouldn't do exactly as we did this time. But only that perhaps it might help his recovery in any subsequent incidents. Something to ask the Bud about, I guess.

Speaking of Bud Calderwood, we were able to schedule snakeproofing for Zio for Monday Sept 7th up at Bud's place in Alachua; couldn't make it any sooner due to DOCOF commitments this weekend.

[phermes1]

Paul, I've heard about the snake vaccine as well. I believe it was also mentioned in the Fox 13 newspot in which Zio appeared. The inference I got was that since no FL species were used in it's creation, that it was basically useless here in FL. Conversely, I'm wondering that if the dog has already been bitten, whether or not some antibodies have been created that would be helpful in reducing the impact of any future envenomation. Now, that doesn't mean that if (G-d forbid) he gets hit again that we wouldn't do exactly as we did this time. But only that perhaps it might help his recovery in any subsequent incidents. Something to ask the Bud about, I guess.

Speaking of Bud Calderwood, we were able to schedule snakeproofing for Zio for Monday Sept 7th up at Bud's place in Alachua; couldn't make it any sooner due to DOCOF commitments this weekend.

Regarding the vaccine, it was designed for the western diamondback, but I've been told that there is SOME cross-protection to other species, including the timber, pygmy, and eastern diamondback, with the eastern having the least amount.
I waffle on getting the vaccine. On one hand, ANY protection is good. If it mitigates the effects by as little as 10%, that could save having to give him an extra vial of antivenin, which isn't cheap. Or it could save your dog's life entirely.
On the other hand, I've heard of some adverse reactions to it that really concern me.

Regarding antibodies - I don't know how that works. It might help fight off the effects of a future bite, or it might make him especially sensitive to the venom. At least in Shooter's case, I'm guessing it would be the latter, as he had a very strong reaction to the venom and almost died. He either got a monster dose or is just overly sensitive to it.

Either way, you're right - your actions after a bite don't change simply because the dog is vaccinated. FVS was the best place to go. They're very expensive, but they know their stuff. They're the best place in the state outside of the UF vet school.

[SubMariner]

Zio seems to be back up to speed. We spent the weekend in Orlando for the Dog Obedience Clubs of Florida (DOCOF) trials, where Zio was a proud member of the North Florida German Shorthaired Pointer Club team. The results haven't been published yet.

Monday we took him up to Alachua for snakeproofing. Two hours up & two hours back for about 30 minutes of "work".

The vet who does the clinic had several defanged rattlers that he uses. He also tapes their mouths shut for the exercise because they can still inflict a nasty bite without the fangs, which apparently grow back much like shark's teeth.

The eastern diamondback rattler had to be at least 6 feet long. You could hear the rattle from 25' away!

He also used a western diamond back as well as a local pygmy rattler. The pygmy was almost 2' in length, but even at that size you couldn't hear any noise from it. (Judging by the spacing of the wounds on Zio's nose, we think this is the type of snake that got him last week.) Zio now knows to "keep away" by sight, sound, and smell.

Whew!

[phermes1]

Zio seems to be back up to speed. We spent the weekend in Orlando for the Dog Obedience Clubs of Florida (DOCOF) trials, where Zio was a proud member of the North Florida German Shorthaired Pointer Club team. The results haven't been published yet.

Monday we took him up to Alachua for snakeproofing. Two hours up & two hours back for about 30 minutes of "work".

The vet who does the clinic had several defanged rattlers that he uses. He also tapes their mouths shut for the exercise because they can still inflict a nasty bite without the fangs, which apparently grow back much like shark's teeth.

The eastern diamondback rattler had to be at least 6 feet long. You could hear the rattle from 25' away!

He also used a western diamond back as well as a local pygmy rattler. The pygmy was almost 2' in length, but even at that size you couldn't hear any noise from it. (Judging by the spacing of the wounds on Zio's nose, we think this is the type of snake that got him last week.) Zio now knows to "keep away" by sight, sound, and smell.

Whew!

Good to hear he's doing OK.
He had that western diamondback at our snakeproofing too. That thing is one mean SOB!!!

[SubMariner]

Good to hear he's doing OK.
He had that western diamondback at our snakeproofing too. That thing is one mean SOB!!!

Well, none of them seemed to be particularly "shy", even WITH their mouths taped shut!.

Take care,