Should I ask for deposit back?

hpvizslas · Post by **hpvizslas** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:43 am

Trying to make a decision and I would like to get some outside input.

I have had a deposit with a breeder since May of 2008. The breeder had a litter last year but do to situations in our household, we decided to wait for another pup. The breeder had thought that they would have a litter earlier this year but there was a false pregnency. There may be another litter on the ground before the end of the year but I am having a difficult time getting a response back from the breeder to find out what is going on. May be because the breeder is gunshy about committing to pups without knowing when they will have a litter. No fault of the breeder for the false pregnancy.

The problem is that we have been waiting for over a year and a half for a pup. We are getting anxious and would like to get a pup soon as my older dog is getting to the point that I won't hunt as much. I also would need to look at other breedings/breeds to find the pup that I want.

My question is should I ask for the deposit back or should I wait?

Thanks
Jeff

1vizsla · Post by **1vizsla** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:48 am

Ithink that it is strictly a personal decision. Try to get a hold of the breeder again, express your concerns and then make the decision.

carla

r.r.rouse · Post by **r.r.rouse** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:55 am

Looks like you have been waiting but some of that is back on you as you appeared to back out of one of the breedings. Some breeders will not refund deposits, but should have told you that up front.

snips · Post by **snips** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:31 am

I only keep a deposit after the litter is bred and sopmeone backs out, but that is me. If you backed out on one litter he may keep it, but only the Breeder can tell you his policy.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:15 pm

Wait or forfeit the deposit.

We would have had you forfeit the deposit when you did not take the pup when offered, and had you make another and get on the waiting list.

What do yo think the deposit is for? Let me answer, It is to insure you will buy the pup. Sometimes we will have all the pups sold from word of mouth, have a waiting list with no advertising or other expense. Then have a buyer back out for whatever reason, so we have to advertise one pup, which cost the same as a whole litter. Does that seem fair to you?

You owe the breeder the deposit, if he allows you to transfer it, consider yourself lucky, we wouldn't,

Neil

3Britts · Post by **3Britts** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:22 pm

Hard choice to make.

My policy is that the litter is non-refundable if the buyer backs out. I let the buyer know that they may use the deposit on an upcoming litter. I do make sure that the buyer and I come to an agreed time span to for that litter to be born, normally one year.

Now, if the gender desired is not whelped, I offer to refund the deposit or move it to the next litter to be born. Buyer's choice on this one.

What I would like to know is what you and the breeder discussed when you have to withdraw from the first litter. That would help with this thread.

reba · Post by **reba** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:36 pm

I my experence the deposit is non refundable if you back out for what ever reason.

In good faith the breeder should let you apply it to any new or up comming litters.

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:21 pm

If you want a pup now, I would look for a litter about to be whelped or on the ground already. If you find what you like, buy it.

As was previously mentioned, you backed out on a pup from a previous breeding, so I would think your deposit is already gone anyway.

That could also be why the breeder is not returning your calls. They might be a little hesitant to do another deal with you given the fact that you backed out on the first one.

RayG

mageecreek · Post by **mageecreek** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:23 pm

The depost is only refundable if something happens to the pup on the breeders end (ie: death of puppy or false pregnancy. Then you could be given a choice to receive a refund or apply to another puppy purchase from another litter of equal or greater value.
I never take deposits on puppies until they are actually born, that way if the buyer wants a chocolate male and there are none born I don't have a problem. I can't take a deposit on something I don't have.

hpvizslas · Post by **hpvizslas** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:15 pm

Thanks for everyone's opinion. The reason that we did not get a pup out of the first litter was because of the pup not being what we were looking for. We wanted a male and all she had available were females. We then moved 700 miles and did not want to get a pup until we were settled. We have been waiting for the next litter, yet there has not been one yet. We really want one of these pups, we just don't know how long to wait and don't want to be strung along, if there is going to be another false pregnancy. I know that deposits are meant to protect the breeder, but there needs to be something that protects the buyer also. I like the idea of waiting until the pups are born but when you are looking at a good breeding, you don't want to wait too long.

Thanks again

kylenicholas02 · Post by **kylenicholas02** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:47 pm

Definition of Deposit- To give as partial payment or security for future resource or service

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:01 pm

Definition of Non-Refundable Deposit - It is non-refundable after received.

Ask many questions and read the fine print, otherwise....lesson learned.

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:03 pm

I have a question for some of the breeders who said they keep the deposit on a pup if the buyer backs out. When you sell that pup to another customer do you pass that savings on the pup onto the other customer, meaning if a buyer put up a $100 deposit on a $500 pup and backed out and you kept the deposit do you in turn sell that pup for $400 to another customer since you already made $100 of your asking price provided you did not allow the first buyer to apply it to another litter? I understand that it costs the same to advertise for a whole litter or just one pup so if you are asking a set amount and you make that money from one backout buyer in my opinion that savings should be passed onto whoever does purchase the pup. That also is only fair as well is it not? If you buy something at a store and it is too small and you take it back then it is usually sold at a reduced price not retail since it is returned merchandise.

3Britts · Post by **3Britts** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:51 pm

tommyboy72 wrote:I have a question for some of the breeders who said they keep the deposit on a pup if the buyer backs out. When you sell that pup to another customer do you pass that savings on the pup onto the other customer, meaning if a buyer put up a $100 deposit on a $500 pup and backed out and you kept the deposit do you in turn sell that pup for $400 to another customer since you already made $100 of your asking price provided you did not allow the first buyer to apply it to another litter? I understand that it costs the same to advertise for a whole litter or just one pup so if you are asking a set amount and you make that money from one backout buyer in my opinion that savings should be passed onto whoever does purchase the pup. That also is only fair as well is it not? If you buy something at a store and it is too small and you take it back then it is usually sold at a reduced price not retail since it is returned merchandise.

The returning the merchandise to the store is not what would be called apples to apples and so does not apply since the puppy never left the store. Lay-away items returned to the shelves are not marked down.

In many instances, such as having the pup vet checked before shipping costs money as the time limit on health certs for airline shipping has a time limit. Also, the cost for listing pups or feeding and needed medicals (shots and deworming) etc, also cost money that the breeder would need to carry.
So no, I would not discount the pup to a future buyer. As all markets have a limited amount of purchasers at any given time, I may, as a responsible breeder, need to keep and care for any puppy that is produced under my control for the time span that it takes to find a suitable home for the dog. This will take as long as it takes.
Now, hpvizslas, after having heard that the breeder was unable to provide you with a puppy of the gender that you had placed a deposit on, I would have either refunded you your deposit or have agreed to allow the selection of a future pup of the gender that you desired. I would do this because it was not your fault that a male puppy was not whelped. Things like this are really out of your control. JMO
I also do not cash any deposit until the pups are whelped and I know how many males and females there are.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:39 pm

"

hpvizslas"

The breeder had a litter last year but do to situations in our household, we decided to wait for another pup.

Jeff

The reason that we did not get a pup out of the first litter was because of the pup not being what we were looking for.

Which was it?

Neil

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:38 pm

A deposit is a commitment! You are also giving your word. I personally take pride in being a man of my word, and I would absolutely not ask for the deposit back. The exception being, if there was an areement made that the commitment was for a certain puppy, such as male or female, and there wasn't one available.

Charlie

vzkennels · Post by **vzkennels** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:52 pm

If I have a deposit on a certain pup & some one wants it I can't sell it because I have a commitment to that person with the deposit.Now lets say that person backs out & the other person that wanted it does not want it any more or bought a pup else where then where does that leave me,I have lost a sale so why should I give the deposit back or sell the pup cheaper to the next guy.It works both ways you know the breeder & the buyer are making commitments to each other.If I was the kind of person some are if some one offered me more on a pup I already have a deposit on it would be sold & give the deposit back but that's not right in my mind anyway.I also would not cut some ones throat & buy or sell a dog from under some one else.

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:08 pm

I would not refund under those circumstances. A breeder makes a decision to breed a litter based on feedback and requests from people expressing an interest. I have been a nice guy and not required deposits until the litter was on the ground and all those interested people were MIA when I tried to contact them. Most of my experienced breeder friends will not go forward with a litter unless they have at least 4 non refundable deposits in hand. I can't blame them either.

hpvizslas · Post by **hpvizslas** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:52 pm

Neil wrote:Wait or forfeit the deposit.

We would have had you forfeit the deposit when you did not take the pup when offered, and had you make another and get on the waiting list.

What do yo think the deposit is for? Let me answer, It is to insure you will buy the pup. Sometimes we will have all the pups sold from word of mouth, have a waiting list with no advertising or other expense. Then have a buyer back out for whatever reason, so we have to advertise one pup, which cost the same as a whole litter. Does that seem fair to you?

You owe the breeder the deposit, if he allows you to transfer it, consider yourself lucky, we wouldn't,

Neil

Neil, To answer your question, the reason that we did not get the pup from the first litter is because we wanted a male pup but there was not a male available for us out of that litter. The situation in our house is that we already had all the females that we needed and wanted a male for future consideration. We decided that we were not going to produce any litters in the future but wanted to have a dog that could be a stud dog, if it turned out to have the dual qualities that I am looking for.

I guess since you have all of the answers, you can answer me this. Why does it seem that your postings are looking for an argument?? I never said that I was asking for the deposit back or complaining that the breeder would not give the deposit back. What I was asking is how long would other people wait before they made the decision to find a different breeder and ask for the refund of a refundable deposit??

I would never sign a non-refundable deposit contract and would never go with a breeder that would not try and satisfy the buyer with what they are looking for. Breeders that handle their business like would find themselves without future buyers once the word of mouth got around.

If it was $100 I would not be so concerned, I have wasted that on a lot less but I have paid for 1/3 of the pup and that is an amount that I am interested in getting back. I would like to have a pup from this breeder because I think that the breeder has a good program and can produce the type of dog that I want.

I, by no means, am trying to say anything negative about the breeder that we are looking at. There have been issues that are out of their control in regards to the delivery of a pup. They do not produce multiple litters, just to make a dollar. My only concern is I would like to replace an aging dog in the field and do not want to wait too long before I do this. If I have to wait another year for a pup from this breeder, I would need to make a decision about looking elsewhere, so that I can enjoy my time in the field.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:49 am

I am not looking for an argument, I really don't care what you do.

I still do not understand if you were offered a pup as agreed at the time of the deposit and turned it down due to a personal situation, but if you did, you should not ask for the deposit back. Please go back and read your own posts. If you contracted for a male, and he could not produce one, you should get the deposit back.

We have had a few people unfortunately forfeit their deposits, and our waiting list is longer than ever. Were it not for about 10% of the people, we would breed more litters, I like the dog side of the business.

Neil

wems2371 · Post by **wems2371** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:26 am

hpvizslas wrote:I would never sign a non-refundable deposit contract and would never go with a breeder that would not try and satisfy the buyer with what they are looking for. Breeders that handle their business like would find themselves without future buyers once the word of mouth got around.

Not satisfying male/female requirements is one thing, but otherwise why would any breeder take deposits on their pups if it was refundable. Kind of negates the whole process. I don't expect anyone to bend over backwards for me, and in the real world there are some (maybe a lot) of people that can't be satisfied. I would get my deposit back now, as I wouldn't have waited this long...but this all depends on how much you want a pup from them. To me, this is a question that only you can answer. With my older gsp, I waited for a 3rd litter. First was false pregnancy, 2nd was too few females, 3rd time was a charm. But all 3 litters were whelped within a month or so. If that hadn't worked out, I would've got my deposit back, and started searching again...

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:47 am

when you sent in your deposit most likely you said what you wanted- male or female- question- how far down on the list were you

snips · Post by **snips** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:22 am

If he did not have a male for you (and that is what you specified) and next breeding did not take, then if you did not want to wait longer then I would definetly ask for it back...And you should receive it IMO...

wilsonwires · Post by **wilsonwires** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:00 am

I agree with Snips. If the breeder could not produce a male pup then he should returned your deposit.

vzkennels · Post by **vzkennels** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:25 am

Agreed if the breeder don't meet the requirements deposit should be returned.I don't take deposits untill litter is on the ground but that might change as past experience has shown people on the waiting list without deposits seem to disapear after litter is whelped.

hpvizslas · Post by **hpvizslas** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:55 am

Thanks everyone for your insight. We will probably just wait and see what happens with this litter because we do want a pup. I appreciate everyone's opinions and did not mean to start an argument with anyone. Just getting impatient and looking for advice.

We did want a male pup, a female would not work in our situation at that time (we had decided then that we did not want to mess with pups in the future). There was only one male born and we were not at the top of the list. The breeder has a refundable deposit contract, given that they can find another buyer for the pup before they are old enough to go home. They offered to move us to the top of the list for the next litter. It has now been a year and another litter has not been produced yet, due to no fault of the breeder, just the way that things happen. I just don't want to wait too long before finding the pup we want and I am hopeful that the breeder will have a litter soon.

Thanks everyone

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:51 am

My experience with v's (or any other living creature) is this: IF you want something very specific - you have to wait. IF you settle for something else, you may or may not get what you want. Even IF you get what you want at first - it MAY NOT turn out the way you thought. Mother Nature is very unpredictable - you will find.

Justin

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:24 am

I wanted a high power breeding and put down a $300.00 deposit- wasn't very close to the top of the list- wanted a female- after the others choose theirs there wasn't a female left- breeder asked if I wanted the deposit back or top of the list on the next litter- course I choose top pick- wait was worth it- 12 females and one male

some years later I drove down to Texas to see the parents of a litter- put down a deposit of $300.00- 7th pick- not enough pups- again the breeder said top choice on next litter- year went by- breeder refunded the deposit-

he heard about a breeding up north- because the breeder knew what I was looking for- I drove up there and got first pick- so I picked a female and male

most breeders do care- most do whatever they can

when you are looking for a specific line and made your choice- you have to be ready for times when things don't work out as expected

I sort of saw your first post as the timing wasn't right for you to get a pup so you passed on it

westexasrepublic · Post by **westexasrepublic** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:14 am

Neil wrote:"
hpvizslas"

The breeder had a litter last year but do to situations in our household, we decided to wait for another pup.

Jeff

The reason that we did not get a pup out of the first litter was because of the pup not being what we were looking for.
Which was it?

Neil

yah sounds like the first response is more honest.

hpvizslas · Post by **hpvizslas** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:45 am

I guess I don't understand where the confusion is at on what I explained on what happened with the pup from the first litter. There was only one male born in that litter and I was not at the top of the litter. We decided rather than take a female, which we did not want and did not feel would work at that time, that we would wait for the next litter where we would be at the top of the list. We wanted a male but could have got a female from the first litter. The breeder offered us the option of waiting or refund at that time. As stated, the reason for this posting is because it has been over a year without another litter. We have since decided that we would be willing to consider a female or male, as long as it is a pup with good potential.

My original post was not intended to invoke any disagreements but I guess there were some who saw it another way. I do appreciate the suggestions and opinions of the ones who gave advice.

I have decided to wait until we see what comes from this litter and hopefully will be able to post pictures before the end of the year of our new pup.

westexasrepublic · Post by **westexasrepublic** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:22 am

Maybe you where just trying to keep it short, but you left a lot of those important details out of your first post, you only mention the whole also "we didnt want a female pup"after someone mentioned you should get a refund if the breeder didn't produce your desired pups sex. Like I said maybe you where trying to keep it short by saying "but do to situations in our household, we decided to wait for another pup.".

In all, it sounds like anxiety for your pup, and I understand, I would be too. But it is the risk you take when you "wait for another pup", now you just wait, so no,... to answer the topic question

[edit] sorry reply came before I read your post on what you where gonna do.

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:13 pm

[quote="hpvizslas"] We have since decided that we would be willing to consider a female or male, as long as it is a pup with good potential.

so what is now good potential, in that you didn't like what you saw in the first litter

hpvizslas · Post by **hpvizslas** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:59 pm

Good grief, This is what I get for asking a question so I only have myself to blame.

The only difference now is that we would be willing to consider a female, because we can always have the pup spayed or we may go ahead and breed at a later date if wanted. The potential should be there in this litter just as there was in the first litter. The only thing that I am worried about in this litter is that I would like an outgoing and friendly pup. One that I can groom into a great brag dog at some point. I hope that I have satisfied your questioning of me. I am sorry that I asked a question to get an opinion to make sure that I was not stupid for waiting so long on a pup.

Jeff

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs · Post by **Ricky Ticky Shorthairs** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:57 am

Jeff-Don't be sorry for asking a question. It's some of these people that should be sorry for jumping on you the way they did.

You didin't do anything wrong.By the way... did you make it to Uncle Bucks and check out the Sandhills Baboon?

Doug

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:38 am

Ricky- it's a discussion board- some are just trying to determin where he's coming from- seems you know him so have a better understanding

here's a question- at what age is the original poster figuring on choosing a pup

hpvizslas · Post by **hpvizslas** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:28 am

Doug,

We have not made it out there yet. We will have to try and get there before too long, still wondering about this baboon though??

Shadow, I have only met Doug here on this discussion board. (Doug is Ricky Ticky Shorthairs, you would know this too if you read the whole post). To answer this question, we will make the decision on the pup at 8 weeks, when we take the pup home. However, we will base our decision on what the breeder has seen over the previous weeks and what their feelings on the independent nature of the pups. To answer a future question that I am sure you will have. Yes, I realize that it is hard to judge a pups potential at a young age; however, with good breeding and future exposure you can make an educated decision.

Thanks
Jeff

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:07 pm

fella up in Michigan has been waiting 3 years- pup was delivered to him sight unseen- know it's not what you want in a bird dog- but he's glad he waited

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:11 pm

Nice looking pup on point. Love it. Looks like you have some real bird dogs there Shadow.

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:32 pm

thanks Tommy- thought to send a picture along with the pup and all his papers- big dogs aren't much into pointing wings- doesn't mean a whole lot- except nice to see on the first time-

see you're keeping a female of your new litter- me too- my female can't have any more pups so

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:49 pm

Ya I haven't decided which one yet but I am keeping one of them. I guess I will wait a bit and see which one develops the type of personality I am looking for and then make a choice then. This is Annie's first litter and she is just a fantastic mother so there may be some more breedings in her future depending on how these turn out.

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:02 pm

I picked the female I wanted as soon as she was alive and kicking- sort of special to me- but that's a long story

main thing I think has been pointed out- if one makes a choice based on what they know- then stick with it- we all get impatient at times- but the wait can be worth it

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:21 pm

Right now the runt is the most active and seems to be healthy and I like a bit smaller dog anyway. They seem to be quicker and snappier which is what I like. She also doesn't have much color to her just mainly white which is something I sort of like but I will reserve my pick for a later date. My wife likes the runt too so she may be the one but I am still going to wait till they get older and I can make a judgement off of personality and birdiness at least as much as you can at an early age.

hpvizslas · Post by **hpvizslas** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:04 pm

Shadow, Good looking pup and I am sure it will be a lot of fun. Pups are fun and we are ready for our next one. Hopefully we will get it soon and be able to do it right.

Tommy, the pups on your post look great too. Should be some fine dogs there. Sorry to hear about the female you lost. Good luck on the rest.

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:21 pm

Seems this thread has kind of gotten off track. Think it is about getting a desposit back.

Ezzy

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:26 pm

Sorry Ezzy.

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:32 pm

No problem. Its easy to get off on a tangent.

Ezzy

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:09 am

sorry Ezzy- thought a picture of a pup, the fella waiting three years for, was in line